Anyone believe Covid is very serious but at same time the vaccine ain't doing shit?

[QUOTE=SATAN;14433386]You are literally insane.[/QUOTE]

The ignore list is your friend. It was probably two months ago that i put him on ignore. I don't think i ever even had a conversation with him about this or anything else and i still couldn't take it. :lol

[QUOTE=tontoz;14433392]The ignore list is your friend. It was probably two months ago that i put him on ignore. I don't think i ever even had a conversation with him about this or anything else and i still couldn't take it. :lol[/QUOTE]

Yeah. At least Chewy and Welfarefan are somewhat funny. :oldlol:

[QUOTE=Cleverness;14433372]:roll:

tontoz comes off as a guy who is well versed in mainstream narratives. probably has read dozens of articles from various corporate media outlets all pushing the same Official Narrative, thinking he's 'well rounded' on the topic.

"I even read some of the (controlled) opposition," he says unironically, "they think the masks are the sign of the devil and the (Trump) vaccine has microchips! LOL now I know I'm right!"[/QUOTE]

I don't know me and tontoz just had a long debate/discussion about it and we don't agree but he was cool for the most part. I don't think he's much different from us. He has his media outlets and studies he likes that supports his views and we have ours. Sure they're the majority and they're shaming and name calling and telling untruths but let's be honest so are the minority that we align more with. I don't blame people like tontoz for feeling as strongly as they do because the media has been brainwashing and fear mongering people since day 1. Why wouldn't people believe the cdc, government and media who they believe is trustworthy and honest. It's natural for people to want to believe their government, healthcare system and media is good by nature and that they are honest and have the best intentions for the everyday citizens well being. This is why they're so easily mislead. It comes from qn honest place. Calling them brainwashed tools is no more productive than them calling us antivaxed conspiracy nuts. I think we both are operating from pure good intentions It's just that our belief that our side is right lets us get emotional qnd then frustrated and then unsympathetic to where the other side is coming from. Again i blame the media, cdc and government for this. They've intentionally created a divide to try to scare and shame people into getting the vaccine and it's worked.

[QUOTE=BurningHammer;14433397]Yeah. At least Chewy and Welfarefan are somewhat funny. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

I'm here to discuss the costs and benefits of forced masking, forced lockdowns, forced vaccinations, forced travel bans, and supposed "overwhelmed" hospitals, all of which you and tontoz support.

Unfortunately you and tontoz have an extremely difficult time backing up your claims.

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?477454-Official-coronavirus-news-discussion-thread&p=14417959&viewfull=1#post14417959[/url]

You're here to argue. Just admit it. :lol

[QUOTE=Bronbron23;14433398]I don't know me and tontoz just had a long debate/discussion about it and we don't agree but he was cool for the most part. I don't think he's much different from us. He has his media outlets and studies he likes that supports his views and we have ours. Sure they're the majority and they're shaming and name calling and telling untruths but let's be honest so are the minority that we align more with. I don't blame people like tontoz for feeling as strongly as they do because the media has been brainwashing and fear mongering people since day 1. Why wouldn't people believe the cdc, government and media who they believe is trustworthy and honest. It's natural for people to want to believe their government, healthcare system and media is good by nature and that they are honest and have the best intentions for the everyday citizens well being. This is why they're so easily mislead. It comes from qn honest place. Calling them brainwashed tools is no more productive than them calling us antivaxed conspiracy nuts. I think we both are operating from pure good intentions It's just that our belief that our side is right lets us get emotional qnd then frustrated and then unsympathetic to where the other side is coming from. Again i blame the media, cdc and government for this. They've intentionally created a divide to try to scare and shame people into getting the vaccine and it's worked.[/QUOTE]

That reply was mainly for Fultz, but thanks for the response.

The other replies are more in tune with the general discussion regarding the data and the costs and benefits of forced masking, forced lockdowns, forced vaccinations, forced travel bans, and supposed "overwhelmed" hospitals.

For example, this post:

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?497308-Anyone-believe-Covid-is-very-serious-but-at-same-time-the-vaccine-ain-t-doing-shit&p=14433362&viewfull=1#post14433362[/url]

[QUOTE=SATAN;14433403]You're here to argue. Just admit it. :lol[/QUOTE]

Changing plans from repeatedly dumping stuff off facebook to asking people to work for him instead :oldlol:

[QUOTE=tontoz;14433390]Sorry but this doesn't pass the sniff test. The US govt has a lot of leverage when negotiating prices with the drug companies due to their buying power.

Even if that $1.20 production cost number was true, which i doubt, production is only one of the costs of bringing a vaccine to market. R&D, testing, storage, distribution... probably forgetting some things. Over time the cost will come down but that is not a believable number.

Do you really think our govt is so weak that they are willing to give the drug companies roughly an 85% profit margin in an emergency situation, especially when there has been so much talk about cutting drug prices in recent years?

I don't buy it.[/QUOTE]

The government has proven themselves to be highly incompetent on a range of issues time and time again throughout history so nothing would surprise me. I mean there's tons of articles on this though and almost show a ridiculous profit margin.

You may not buy it but they certainly are

[QUOTE=Bronbron23;14433413]The government has proven themselves to be highly incompetent on a range of issues time and time again throughout history so nothing would surprise me. I mean there's tons of articles on this though and almost show a ridiculous profit margin.

You may not buy it but they certainly are[/QUOTE]

Just remember that tontoz is a supporter of forced masking, forced lockdowns, forced vaccinations, etc. These are the major issues (IMO, and I think you'd agree). Those are the things he needs to make his case on. Remember that.

What the gov't should do with leftover vaccine, the precise difference between natural immunity & immunity through vaccination, what the governor of WV said on YouTube, etc, are comparatively minor issues. I notice you're smart enough to recognize supposed "private" drug companies make their money BECAUSE of gov't, and there's a lot of corruption in that industry, but again, these issues are separate from the major issues I listed above.

[QUOTE=Cleverness;14433404]That reply was mainly for Fultz, but thanks for the response.

The other replies are more in tune with the general discussion regarding the data and the costs and benefits of forced masking, forced lockdowns, forced vaccinations, forced travel bans, and supposed "overwhelmed" hospitals.

For example, this post:

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?497308-Anyone-believe-Covid-is-very-serious-but-at-same-time-the-vaccine-ain-t-doing-shit&p=14433362&viewfull=1#post14433362[/url][/QUOTE]

Yeah i'm not with forced anything. I think if u wanna mask, vaccinate or whatever to protect yourself you should go for it just don't project your fears on me. That said the govt, cdc and media are doing their best to get people to do just that so i try to be understanding and have rational debates with that in mind. It's tough though for both sides. It's causing issues with friends and family that I've never had any issues with before. They probably feel the same and it just makes both sides more frustrated and angry at each other. The shit sucks man.

[QUOTE=Bronbron23;14433419]Yeah i'm not with forced anything. I think if u wanna mask, vaccinate or whatever to protect yourself you should go for it just don't project your fears on me. That said the govt, cdc and media are doing their best to get people to do just that so i try to be understanding and have rational debates with that in mind. It's tough though for both sides. It's causing issues with friends and family that I've never had any issues with before. They probably feel the same and it just makes both sides more frustrated and angry at each other. The shit sucks man.[/QUOTE]

Right.

And these guys want to force hundreds of millions of people to do those things. Thus, the burden of proof is on them to make their case for locking people up and forcing medical intrusions into their bodies. When people advocate for that sort of thing, they better have a rock-solid case which can withstand some of the toughest scrutiny. What I've done is ask basic followup questions to those people and they all folded like a house of cards.

[QUOTE=tontoz;14433379]I see Cleverness popping in from time to time. If anyone is wondering why i don't respond to him i put him on the ignore list awhile back. He is literally the only person i ever put on ignore that i never even argued with. :oldlol:

The reasons should be obvious.[/QUOTE]
Never knew he'd be obsessed with covid in such great heights. :roll:

[QUOTE=Cleverness;14433434]Right.

And these guys want to force hundreds of millions of people to do those things. Thus, the burden of proof is on them to make their case for locking people up and forcing medical intrusions into their bodies. When people advocate for that sort of thing, they better have a rock-solid case which can withstand some of the toughest scrutiny. What I've done is ask basic followup questions to those people and they all folded like a house of cards.[/QUOTE]

Yeah i think the burden of proof thing is tricky because there's data, experts and articles out there that support their reasons why everyone one should mask, vaccine or whatever. Sure these experts, data and articles may be untruthful or just plain wrong but they don't know that. They believe it's forthright. They believe they have the burden of truth just like we can sight contradictory articles, data and experts that claim otherwise. That's the problem with this shit. There's so much misinformation and conflicting data it's hard to tell what to believe. I was raised to question authority and think for yourself so i just look at data and things being said and apply common sense and or science to it and often the answer is there. Certain basic principles like natural antibodies are as good or more effective than the vaccine. This has always been common knowledge until covid where the media and cdc managed to scare people into abandoning science and common sense and believe antibodies didn't matter with covid.

The crazy shit is i think if all these entities were honest and understanding and didn't tell lies or unknown truths from jump and just allowed for honest open debate and discussion way more people would of taken the vaccine. Or maybe if they allowed open debate and discussion it would be clear that alot of what they're saying is b.s. i really don't know what to believe anymore.

Just took another look at the AstraZeneca vaccine. Apparently the FDA won't even allow it to be used here in the US even though the government bought millions of doses.

[QUOTE=tontoz;14433570]Just took another look at the AstraZeneca vaccine. Apparently the FDA won't even allow it to be used here in the US even though the government bought millions of doses.[/QUOTE]

What a waste. This is part of the reason for my hesitancy with the vaccine. Who knows if the other vaccines have some kind of long term effects that don't show up until a year or 2 after. This shit is still in its infancy and knowledge of covid and vaccines are constantly changing.

[QUOTE=Bronbron23;14433588]What a waste. This is part of the reason for my hesitancy with the vaccine. Who knows if the other vaccines have some kind of long term effects that don't show up until a year or 2 after. This shit is still in its infancy and knowledge of covid and vaccines are constantly changing.[/QUOTE]


From what i have read vaccines never have long term effects. The only side effects are short term. Problem is that they can be severe in the short term.

The link from Manny, if i remember right, mentioned 72 dead attributed to the AstraZeneca vaccine.

Another story i looked at said the threat of death from the vaccine is 1 in a million. Not much of an endorsement imo. The chance of a case of TTS, which sometimes ends in death, is 30 in a million. The tone of the article is of trying to minimize the risk. To me that much risk just isn't acceptable given that through history vaccines have been pretty safe and there are much safer options available now

[QUOTE]

What is TTS?
Thrombosis with thrombocytopenia syndrome (TTS) is a rare condition reported in some people who have received adenoviral vector COVID-19 vaccines [such as the AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine]. The syndrome is characterised by blood clot formation (thrombosis) combined with low platelet levels (thrombocytopenia).

TTS is different to other more commonly diagnosed blood clotting conditions as it is triggered by an immune response that causes the combination of both clots and low platelets.

[/QUOTE]

[url]https://www.science.org.au/curious/people-medicine/astrazeneca-vaccine-risk-death-1-million-what-does-mean[/url]

[QUOTE=Bronbron23;14433588]What a waste. This is part of the reason for my hesitancy with the vaccine. Who knows if the other vaccines have some kind of long term effects that don't show up until a year or 2 after. This shit is still in its infancy and knowledge of covid and vaccines are constantly changing.[/QUOTE]

Studies to evaluate myocarditis and pericarditis following administration of the Pfizer shot are not set to be complete until 2022-2026. Pages 6-8: [url]https://www.fda.gov/media/151710/download[/url]

This is from Manny's link in the other thread about the AstraZeneca vaccine:



[QUOTE]
Tests were carried out and blood clots were found in her brain, prompting her to be moved to the neurology specialist unit at Newcastle's Royal Victoria Infirmary (RVI).

The clots are considered extremely rare - there have been [B]417 reported cases and 72 deaths - after 24.8 million first doses and 23.9 million second doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine in the UK.
[/B]
Dr Christopher Johnson, a consultant in anaesthetics and intensive care at the RVI, said Ms Shaw had been conscious for several days and had been treated for the clots with drugs which seemed to be successful.


[/QUOTE]

[url]https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-tyne-58330796[/url]


So 72 deaths for 24 million people who got both doses, 3 deaths per million people fully vaccinated. Ugh

[QUOTE=tontoz;14433601]From what i have read vaccines never have long term effects. The only side effects are short term. Problem is that they can be severe in the short term.

The link from Manny, if i remember right, mentioned 72 dead attributed to the AstraZeneca vaccine.

Another story i looked at said the threat of death from the vaccine is 1 in a million. Not much of an endorsement imo. The chance of a case of TTS, which sometimes ends in death, is 30 in a million. The tone of the article is of trying to minimize the risk. To me that much risk just isn't acceptable given that through history vaccines have been pretty safe and there are much safer options available now



[url]https://www.science.org.au/curious/people-medicine/astrazeneca-vaccine-risk-death-1-million-what-does-mean[/url][/QUOTE]

Yeah i here u but this is the firsr mrna vaccine from what i understand. It's a bit different from most vaccines. Generally your right though vaccines don't usually cause long term effects.

13-Year-Old Dies in Sleep After Receiving Pfizer COVID Vaccine; CDC Investigating

[url]https://www.newsweek.com/13-year-old-dies-sleep-after-receiving-pfizer-covid-vaccine-cdc-investigating-1606529[/url]

[QUOTE=Bronbron23;14433446]Yeah i think the burden of proof thing is tricky because there's data, experts and articles out there that support their reasons why everyone one should mask, vaccine or whatever. Sure these experts, data and articles may be untruthful or just plain wrong but they don't know that. They believe it's forthright. They believe they have the burden of truth just like we can sight contradictory articles, data and experts that claim otherwise. That's the problem with this shit. There's so much misinformation and conflicting data it's hard to tell what to believe. I was raised to question authority and think for yourself so i just look at data and things being said and apply common sense and or science to it and often the answer is there. Certain basic principles like natural antibodies are as good or more effective than the vaccine. This has always been common knowledge until covid where the media and cdc managed to scare people into abandoning science and common sense and believe antibodies didn't matter with covid.

The crazy shit is i think if all these entities were honest and understanding and didn't tell lies or unknown truths from jump and just allowed for honest open debate and discussion way more people would of taken the vaccine. Or maybe if they allowed open debate and discussion it would be clear that alot of what they're saying is b.s. i really don't know what to believe anymore.[/QUOTE]

LMAO . Use common sense. Consider the source . Legit science journalism with a reputation to protect will not put out random articles to push some agenda. I see a echo chamber on both side especially when they are piggybacking a political propaganda and the ones why usually fall for this are the ones with a form confirmation bias:

The only thing that scares me is the more virus that are circulating, the more chance of evolving and the last thing we want is a variant that ultimately affect our children. The only pragmatic solution is preventable measures.

[QUOTE=Manny98;14434898]13-Year-Old Dies in Sleep After Receiving Pfizer COVID Vaccine; CDC Investigating

[url]https://www.newsweek.com/13-year-old-dies-sleep-after-receiving-pfizer-covid-vaccine-cdc-investigating-1606529[/url][/QUOTE]


Myocarditis is a known side effect which can effect young people which is probably why the vaccines still arent approved for kids 12 and under. This kid was 13 so right on the edge.

Myocarditis apparently affects boys more than girls.

[QUOTE] The heart complications are more likely to occur in boys and young men, the analysis found, and the most common symptoms are chest pain, shortness of breath, and the sensation of having a rapid heartbeat, a fluttering, or pounding heart.

As of Monday, [B]780 cases of myocarditis and pericarditis have been reported[/B] to the Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System among people ages 30 and younger who had received a COVID-19 vaccine.

[/QUOTE]

[url]https://www.freep.com/story/news/2021/07/02/jacob-clynick-pfizer-covid-vaccine/5323095001/[/url]

When you consider the millions of doses that have been given out i guess the key question is whether the risk of this side effect is greater than the risk of Covid.


[QUOTE] Less than a month into the new school year, the U.S. is seeing a record number of children hospitalized for COVID-19. According to data from the CDC, [B]the hospitalization rate for children under 18 is five times what it was in June[/B], and the New York Times reports that nearly 30,000 adolescents and children were hospitalized for coronavirus in August.

[B]But the spike in hospitalizations is especially concerning given the capacity of pediatric ICU units, which average just 12 beds per hospital. In Louisiana and Texas, some children’s hospitals are completely overwhelmed, with federal “surge teams” bringing emergency workers in to help.[/B]

While vaccines, which are playing a key role in keeping people with COVID-19 infections out of hospitals, are still not available for kids under 12, adult vaccinations seem to be minimizing the number of sick children. [B]The ten most vaccinated states haven’t seen much change in their pediatric hospitalization rates, while the biggest increases are happening in states with low vaccination rates[/B]. Doctors in overrun ICUs are also urging all adults, vaccinated or not, to wear masks and socially distance in public, especially if they’re coming into contact with children.



[/QUOTE]

[url]https://www.thecut.com/2021/09/a-record-number-of-kids-are-being-hospitalized-for-covid.html[/url]

The parents of that kid should fine Pfizer millions

The risk of Covid for healthy people under the age of 60 is virtually 0

The vaccine is only worth it if you're over 60 or not in good health and even then it should be optional

[QUOTE=Manny98;14434951]The parents of that kid should fine Pfizer millions

The risk of Covid for healthy people under the age of 60 is virtually 0

The vaccine is only worth it if you're over 60 or not in good health and even then it should be optional[/QUOTE]



30k kids currently in the hospital for covid argues otherwise.

[QUOTE=tontoz;14434954]30k kids currently in the hospital for covid argues otherwise.[/QUOTE]
Deaths from COVID ‘incredibly rare’ among children

[QUOTE]A comprehensive analysis of hospital admissions and reported deaths across England suggests that COVID-19 carries a lower risk of dying or requiring intensive care among children and young people than was previously thought.

In a series of preprints published on medRxiv1–3, a team of researchers picked through all hospital admissions and deaths reported for people younger than 18 in England. The studies found that COVID-19 caused 25 deaths in that age group between March 2020 and February 2021.

About half of those deaths were in individuals with an underlying complex disability with high health-care needs, such as tube feeding or assistance with breathing.[/QUOTE]

[url]https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01897-w[/url]

In case you didn't notice their study group ended in Feb 2021, well before the Delta variant became the dominant strain.

Why do you think 30k kids are currently in the hospital with Covid?

Tontoz has to be working for the ministry of truth at this point. :oldlol:

This little bitch does nothing but non stop fear monger. Useful idiot as Yuri Bezmenov would put it.

[video=youtube_share;Z1EA2ohrt5Q]https://youtu.be/Z1EA2ohrt5Q[/video]

Tpols with yet another post completely devoid of any useful data or analysis. The only thing he is good for is hitting a button.









[IMG]https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/g195/tontoz/.highres/panic.jpg[/IMG]

I'm not the one panicking. You are. :oldlol:

You took the bait hook line and sinker. Keep spamming your fear and being a useful idiot.

Yuri breaks down the process with which governments break down their citizens psychologically to an absolute tee. I know your attention span is too short to watch the video but I will be providing cliff notes on it soon.

[QUOTE=tpols;14434986]I'm not the one panicking. You are. :oldlol:

You took the bait hook line and sinker. Keep spamming your fear and being a useful idiot.

Yuri breaks down the process with which governments break down their citizens psychologically to an absolute tee. I know your attention span is too short to watch the video but I will be providing cliff notes on it soon.[/QUOTE]


Right because a Russian spy vid is so relevant to the effectiveness of COVID vaccines.

:facepalm

[QUOTE=tontoz;14434970]In case you didn't notice their study group ended in Feb 2021, well before the Delta variant became the dominant strain.

Why do you think 30k kids are currently in the hospital with Covid?[/QUOTE]
Last time I checked they were about 1.5k kids hospitalized in the US, don't know where you got 30k from

In the UK the amount of young people that have died of Covid has yet to hit the 100s

[QUOTE=tontoz;14434991]Right because a Russian spy vid is so relevant to the effectiveness of COVID vaccines.

:facepalm[/QUOTE]

See... you didn't watch the video.

Yuri explains how its only in American movies and Hollywood that KGB does nothing but spy. He explains in this video that espionage is only 15% of KGB duty and 85% of their effort is spent on the ideological subversion of their own citizenry through use of propaganda to eventually control how they think and their lives as a whole.

He literally broke it down 40 years ago what's going to happen and explained what is going on today.

[B]Stage 1 [/B]Demoralization - 20+ years to mold minds of a new generation

[B]Stage 2[/B] De-stabilization - collapse economy, start wars and pit people against each other ~ aka us vs terrorists, vax vs unvax, this group vs that group, me vs you etc.

[B]Stage 3[/B] Crisis - worldwide COVID hysteria.

[B]Stage 4[/B] Normalization - you do whatever the **** we say, give up all bodily autonomy and essentially belong as property to the state. Personal freedom gone. Total top down control established and enforced.

He spelled it out word for word because he lived it in the Soviet union.

Your stance is so myopic and short sighted its not even ****ing funny. You are a useful idiot who can't see the big picture [I]and think this is all just about a vaccine. [/I]

I can't say the guy didn't call it 1000%.

Fitting that you are posting conspiracy nut nonsense on Sept 11.

I have watched a lot of the vids and read a lot of the articles that people debating me have posted. I am not watching conspiracy nut vids.

4.5 million have died worldwide due to the.virus, not govt mind.control.

:facepalm

Nice deflection sheep.

People like you are why this world is headed where its headed.

[QUOTE=tpols;14435015]Nice deflection sheep.

People like you are why this world is headed where its headed.[/QUOTE]


So do you have any info on the virus, vaccine or treatment? Maybe you should.make a separate thread for govt mind control vids. :oldlol:

50-60 million people die every year worldwide.

[URL="https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/number-of-deaths-per-year?country=~OWID_WRL"]link[/URL]

Global population is up from 2019 to today. Surely this humanity shredding plague justifies the draconian lockdown and loss of freedoms worldwide.

Tontoz you better get in your bunker and hide boy. Virus coming for you.

So how many people die from govt mind control?

I bet the govt is using hypnosis so people develop illnesses severe enough to admitted to the ICU so the drug companies can get that.lettuce. :roll:

[QUOTE=tontoz;14435030]So how many people die from govt mind control?

I bet the govt is using hypnosis so people develop illnesses severe enough to admitted to the ICU so the drug companies can get that.lettuce. :roll:[/QUOTE]

Get lettuce? What are you even saying clown?

Yes worldwide media propaganda has led us to having useful idiots like you who will push for global tyranny. And in the end that will have far more disastrous results than a rebranding of deaths into one bucket to fear monger populations into submissivity.

You're still stuck in the short term dummy. Put your specs on. :oldlol:

And look into the big picture of this whole exercise if you can.

[video=youtube_share;3rwr_xDqMLg]https://youtu.be/3rwr_xDqMLg[/video]

The big picture is nurses like this one who spend their days and nights watching people die without being able to do anything about it. I've been there a couple times and it is awful.

[url]https://www.tiktok.com/@nurse_sushi/video/6998078138420890886[/url]