[QUOTE=RRR3;14646612]22/9/6 with excellent efficiency with ATG defense isn't a superstar in what universe exactly?[/QUOTE]
This universe. If you’re not All-NBA you’re not a super star. Period the end.
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[QUOTE=RRR3;14646612]22/9/6 with excellent efficiency with ATG defense isn't a superstar in what universe exactly?[/QUOTE]
This universe. If you’re not All-NBA you’re not a super star. Period the end.
[QUOTE=RRR3;14646616]I didn't say he was better but he's a pretty similar player to this version of Dwight, yes. Dwight was 36, how many players whose games are based entirely on athleticism are good at that age? The Lakers cast was better when AD played, but he missed 42 games. When he didn't play the casts were pretty equivalent. You also have to consider Vogel lost them many games with foolish decisions.[/QUOTE]
No he was not similar. White sucked, period. The Lakers cast was simply better. You can't conveniently delete AD from the conversation as if he didn't play at all. He did play. And with him and LeBron the team was still .500.
If LeBron is leaps and bounds over MJ, then it would have proven in the results. It didn't.
[QUOTE=HoopsNY;14646624]Pippen was much better in the second half than he was in the first half, which is why he wasn't on the all-star team. The point is you're bringing up 2016 as if it's the same. It's not.[/QUOTE]
I was responding to a poster who acted like MJ won without star help in 91 because of a technicality. You don't get to call me out for that when you were fine with him saying something so ridiculous. As if I actually think Kyrie wasn't a star in 2016 :lol
[QUOTE=HoopsNY;14646630]No he was not similar. White sucked, period. The Lakers cast was simply better. You can't conveniently delete AD from the conversation as if he didn't play at all. He did play. And with him and LeBron the team was still .500.
If LeBron is leaps and bounds over MJ, then it would have proven in the results. It didn't.[/QUOTE]
I'm struggling to see how Dwight Howard doesn't suck if White sucks lol. Dwight put up 7/8 on a TS% 3.8% above league average the season before he played with LeBron last year. White Put up 5/6 on a TS% 3.2% above league average but his usage percentage was 4.1% lower. His efficiency then went up a lot with LeBron, which I think we can safely credit in some part to LeBron's passing. They are both backup centers who are there to dunk and block shots and aren't good enough to play big minutes. You are also ignoring my point that the Lakers with LeBron and AD were consistently the best team in the league when healthy until this past year. Do you think it was their fault that changed or something else?
If 80s MJ is better than 09 LeBron, his results with a similar supporting cast would have proven it by your logic. :confusedshrug:
LMAO Bron stans living in The Nile river is hilarious
BTW the OP pulled a disappearing act in this thread like Bron last year in Playoffs :lol
I come back to this thread and see theman93 has been obliterated and literally admitted LeBron is better yet he wants to keep arguing. :biggums:
[video=youtube;PiAgg9yuqWw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiAgg9yuqWw[/video]
What are people even arguing about at this point?
LeBron is better. Old MJ played in a weak conference. End of story.
Lebron was not better at elevating his team, even though he was better individually while MJ was washed. On top of having a better supporting cast. That’s the facts SATAN. Try to keep up next time.
[QUOTE=Bawkish;14646652]LMAO Bron stans living in The Nile river is hilarious
BTW the OP pulled a disappearing act in this thread like Bron last year in Playoffs :lol[/QUOTE]
Trying to spin the 2002 Wizards that surrounded Jordan as anything more than scrubs is outright hilarious :roll:
[QUOTE=theman93;14646706]Trying to spin the 2002 Wizards that surrounded Jordan as anything more than scrubs is outright hilarious :roll:[/QUOTE]
Wizards jordan didn't elevate anyone so well either. He could have led larry hughes and jerry stackhouse to a playoff berth, as well as kwame brown too. Jordan himself was so mad at the latter for being a bust even if he was his team's vp by the time the guy got drafted into the league.
kobe was horrifically bad his last season at 37...mj was definitely better than him. but yeah, no comparison on an individual level to lebron and that's why they're desperately trying to talk about team records lol.
[QUOTE=Axe;14646708]Wizards jordan didn't elevate anyone so well either. He could have led larry hughes and jerry stackhouse to a playoff berth, as well as kwame brown too. Jordan himself was so mad at the latter for being a bust even if he was his team's vp by the time the guy got drafted into the league.[/QUOTE]
I never even said he was good at elevating his teammates individually. I said he was better at elevating his team as a whole. See: 30-30 vs 26-31
[QUOTE=theman93;14646710]I never even said he was good at elevating his teammates individually. I said he was better at elevating his team as a whole. See: 30-30 vs 26-31[/QUOTE]
Well, he could have at least lead his team to the playoffs coach. I mean he was able to bt when the bulls had a combined 34 wins in his first two seasons in the league, right?
[QUOTE=SATAN;14646677]I come back to this thread and see theman93 has been obliterated and literally admitted LeBron is better yet he wants to keep arguing. :biggums:
[video=youtube;PiAgg9yuqWw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiAgg9yuqWw[/video]
What are people even arguing about at this point?
LeBron is better. Old MJ played in a weak conference. End of story.[/QUOTE]
Made him look so foolish that he had to admit LeBron was better. :lol
[QUOTE=Axe;14646716]Well, he could have at least lead his team to the playoffs coach. I mean he was able to bt when the bulls had a combined 34 wins in his first two seasons in the league, right?[/QUOTE]
You realize he missed most of his 2nd season because of a broken foot right?
[QUOTE=Axe;14646716]Well, he could have at least lead his team to the playoffs coach. I mean he was able to bt when the bulls had [B]a combined 34 wins in his first two seasons in the league[/B], right?[/QUOTE]
He had more than that his first year played moron :lol
[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;14646727]You realize he missed most of his 2nd season because of a broken foot right?[/QUOTE]
Yet his team still made the playoffs despite him missing more than 60 games that season. :confusedshrug:
[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14646721]Made him look so foolish that he had to admit LeBron was better. :lol[/QUOTE]
Uhh buddy, when it's already my position that 37 year old Lebron is better than 38 year old Jordan it's not an admission. :lol
Meanwhile, this worse and washed up version of MJ was doing this with an even worse supporting cast than Lebron:
[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/DQgr77R/jordan.png[/IMG]
[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/PQjQ4g0/lebron.png[/IMG]
[QUOTE=theman93;14646728]He had more than that his first year played moron :lol[/QUOTE]
I said combined, coach. Meaning 38 + 30 then divided by his first two seasons. Sheesh... :facepalm
[QUOTE=Axe;14646732]I said combined, coach. Meaning 38 + 30 then divided by his first two seasons. Sheesh... :facepalm[/QUOTE]
Do you understand basic definitions, Axe?
Combined =/= average
:facepalm
Duh. The bottom line is, he still made the playoffs with a losing record. Yes or no?
[QUOTE=theman93;14646493]I haven't moved any goal posts. This is just your excuse when you're trying to deflect. :lol
MJ was 30-30 in the games he played in 2002. Lebron was 25-31 in the games he played in 2022. Yet Lebron is supposed to be the significantly better player, he is supposed to be significantly better at elevating his teammates, and he had a better roster on top of that which included Anthony Davis for half of the season. Explain.[/QUOTE]can someone please explain this? im actually reading every post and it’s amazing how every lebron stan is avoiding this point :lol
[QUOTE=Axe;14646736]Duh. The bottom line is, he still made the playoffs with a losing record.[/QUOTE]
"Duh" even though you didn't understand the difference until I broke it down for you. :roll:
And all Lebron needed to do to make the play-in was beat out the Spurs....with a losing record. But failed. :lol
Coach...
The topic here is about michael jordan's years as a wizard. Not about lekong, even if you try to say that he underachieved last season (all that while ignoring some useful context).
[QUOTE=outofstomach;14646740]can someone please explain this? im actually reading every post and it’s amazing how every lebron stan is avoiding this point :lol[/QUOTE]
They went on a 13-2 stretch playing some bad teams.
Teams they beat in that run.
Rockets
Mavericks (Without Dirk)
Grizzlies
Heat
Knicks 2x
Raptors
Hawks
Magic
Hornets
Nets
Bulls
Clippers
Most teams on that list had a losing record.
And Keep in mind in the game they beat the Mavs, Dirk wasn't even playing. :lol
[QUOTE=RRR3;14646585]MJ wasn't as conducive to his team winning games as 09 and 10 LeBron until Pippen became a superstar. :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]
nice deflection :lol you are such a sad excuse of a human being
[QUOTE=Axe;14646745]Coach...
[B]The topic here is about michael jordan's years as a wizard[/B]. Not about lekong, even if you try to say that he underachieved last season (all that while ignoring some useful context).[/QUOTE]
Says the guy bringing up the mid-80's :roll:
I'll give you another chance to explain:[B] MJ was 30-30 in the games he played in 2002. Lebron was 25-31 in the games he played in 2022. Yet Lebron is supposed to be the significantly better player, he is supposed to be significantly better at elevating his teammates, and he had a better roster on top of that which included Anthony Davis for half of the season. Explain.[/B]
If you're excuse is that the 2002 Eastern Conference was significantly weaker than the 2022 Western Conference, then how come the 2022 Western Conference teams only won 1.4 more games on average than the 2002 Eastern Conference teams?
[QUOTE=outofstomach;14646747]nice deflection :lol you are such a sad excuse of a human being[/QUOTE]
He's right though.
Bulls went 55-27 without MJ in '94.
:roll:
[QUOTE=theman93;14646748]Says the guy bringing up the mid-80's :roll:
I'll give you another chance to explain:[B] MJ was 30-30 in the games he played in 2002. Lebron was 25-31 in the games he played in 2022. Yet Lebron is supposed to be the significantly better player, he is supposed to be significantly better at elevating his teammates, and he had a better roster on top of that which included Anthony Davis for half of the season. Explain.[/B]
If you're excuse is that the 2002 Eastern Conference was significantly weaker than the 2022 Western Conference, then how come the 2022 Western Conference teams only won 1.4 more games on average than the 2002 Eastern Conference teams?[/QUOTE]
Who do you think played more games in their respective seasons?
[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14646746]They went on a 13-2 stretch playing very bad teams.
Teams that beat in that run.
Rockets
Mavericks (Without Dirk)
Grizzlies
Heat
Knicks 2x
Raptors
Hawks
Magic
Hornets
Nets
Bulls
Clippers
Most teams on that list had a losing record.
And Keep in mind in the game they beat the Mavs, Dirk wasn't even playing. :lol[/QUOTE]
this isn’t really the overarching point, the number one argument bron stans use to put him over Jordan is his longevity, if jordan was able to lead a team to playoff contention before he got injured + a better record than even lebron’s last season in a much more tougher defensive era, how do you square the circle?
lebron didn’t have much help last year but it was certainly way better than the cast
jordan had, that’s not even getting into all the hype and bets that were made when they acquired westbrook regardless, lebron may have performed way better individually, but it didn’t show up in the record whatsoever
[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14646749]He's right though.[/QUOTE]he can be right, it doesn’t make it any less of a deflection :lol
[QUOTE=outofstomach;14646754]this isn’t really the overarching point, the number one argument bron stans use to put him over Jordan is his longevity,[B] if jordan [/B]was able to lead a team to playoff contention before he got injured + a better record than even lebron’s last season in a much more tougher defensive era, how do you square the circle?
lebron didn’t have much help last year but it was certainly way better than the cast
jordan had, that’s not even getting into all the hype and bets that were made when they acquired westbrook regardless, lebron may have performed way better individually, but it didn’t show up in the record whatsoever[/QUOTE]
We don't play what ifs. Fact is the Wizards didn't make the playoffs and MJ's Wizards years are largely looked as a stain on his legacy.
Deal with it.
You same guys also ignoring '09 & '10 LeBron won more games than '88 & '89 MJ despite having similar casts, why is that? Why couldn't MJ elevate his teammates back then like LeBron did?
[QUOTE=HoopsNY;14646608]You don't have to agree that '02 MJ > '22 LeBron. But to act like the Lakers' cast wasn't better is beyond ridiculous.[/QUOTE]not even a conversation :lol
[QUOTE=theman93;14646748]Says the guy bringing up the mid-80's :roll:
I'll give you another chance to explain:[B] MJ was 30-30 in the games he played in 2002. Lebron was 25-31 in the games he played in 2022. Yet Lebron is supposed to be the significantly better player, he is supposed to be significantly better at elevating his teammates, and he had a better roster on top of that which included Anthony Davis for half of the season. Explain.[/B]
If you're excuse is that the 2002 Eastern Conference was significantly weaker than the 2022 Western Conference, then how come the 2022 Western Conference teams only won 1.4 more games on average than the 2002 Eastern Conference teams?[/QUOTE]
It's been obvious they can't refute your claims, so they resort to personal attacks. Classic sign that Lebronnies lost.
[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14646746]They went on a 13-2 stretch playing some bad teams.
Teams they beat in that run.
Rockets
Mavericks (Without Dirk)
Grizzlies
Heat
Knicks 2x
Raptors
Hawks
Magic
Hornets
Nets
Bulls
Clippers
Most teams on that list had a losing record.
And Keep in mind in the game they beat the Mavs, Dirk wasn't even playing. :lol[/QUOTE]
And how many of Lebron's 26 wins came against very bad teams?
[QUOTE=RogueBorg;14646758]It's been obvious they can't refute your claims, so they resort to personal attacks. Classic sign that Lebronnies lost.[/QUOTE]
All you do here is nut-lick those who have the same opinions as yours. Bozo.
[QUOTE=Axe;14646753]Who do you think played more games in their respective seasons?[/QUOTE]
That's irrelevant when 60 games vs 56 games is a fair sample size. Especially when Jordan started in less games. The point here is winning %. MJ was .500 while Lebron was .446. Even though he was significantly worse.
Can someone explain to me how 09 and 10 LeBron won more games than 80s MJ despite having similar casts?
[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14646756]We don't play what ifs. Fact is the Wizards didn't make the playoffs and MJ's Wizards years are largely looked as a stain on his legacy.
Deal with it.
You same guys also ignoring '09 & '10 LeBron won more games than '88 & '89 MJ despite having similar casts, why is that? Why couldn't MJ elevate his teammates back then like LeBron did?[/QUOTE]
ok im gonna ask this again
you think lebron is better than jordan, this is mainly because of his longevity
if jordan and lebron had similar records with lebron having a marginally better supporting cast + jordan literally coming out of retirement in a tougher defensive era, why are the records even remotely close or in the same ballpark as each other?
how does this make sense?
Why did the Bulls still win 55 games without MJ in 94?