Btw Shawk, when you start alluding to the defensive end of the floor, that normally means that I'm winning the offensive side of the argument... It's like a when someone says "I'm good at defense", it means "I can't score"
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Btw Shawk, when you start alluding to the defensive end of the floor, that normally means that I'm winning the offensive side of the argument... It's like a when someone says "I'm good at defense", it means "I can't score"
[QUOTE=3ba11;14958906]Btw Shawk, when you start alluding to the defensive end of the floor, that normally means that I'm winning the offensive side of the argument... It's like a when someone says "I'm good at defense", it means "I can't score"[/QUOTE]
No it doesn’t. It means I’m trying to have a discussion about the entire package of a player.
Cooper will end up scoring more than Ingram did as a freshman, given his motor, transition and tempo pushing, and overall aggressiveness.
And he’s perhaps the best defensive freshman I’ve seen since Anthony Davis. AD wasn’t a prodigy because of his offensive game.
[QUOTE=3ba11;14958901][B]We're talking about Ingram because he compares to Cooper Flagg[/B], except he's a more athletic, better ball-handling, better jumpshooting, and better bag... better skills and athleticism.
And a 16-game sample compared to their entire careers thus far (Ingram vs Cade)?.... nice try[/QUOTE]
Sure thing buddy :lol
Ingram is a soft jump shooter that is reluctant to attack the rim. Flagg is a legit defensive big who is constantly looking to drive 1st and shoot jumpers 2nd. Not remotely comparable.
Flagg will never play the 3 in his entire career. He will play center at times in small lineups.
[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;14958912]Sure thing buddy :lol[/QUOTE]
that's what you said in 2019.. I was right then and I'm right now as usual, and you're in denial and deflect mode as usual.. carry on
[QUOTE=tontoz;14958914]Ingram is a soft jump shooter that is reluctant to attack the rim. Flagg is a legit defensive big who is constantly looking to drive 1st and shoot jumpers 2nd. Not remotely comparable.
Flagg will never play the 3 in his entire career. He will play center at times in small lineups.[/QUOTE]
Sounds like you're trying to compensate for his lack of quickness by saying he's a big... The problem is that all his buckets are guard or wing-like with him dribbling facing the basket, or jumpers (and not turnarounds)... At no point have I seen him operate and help himself like a big.. You guys don't know what you're talking about
Defensively, he might be good and so was Jud Buechler and Ed Najera
[QUOTE=3ba11;14958926]Sounds like you're trying to compensate for his lack of quickness by saying he's a big... The problem is that all his buckets are guard or wing-like with him dribbling facing the basket, or jumpers (and not turnarounds)... At no point have I seen him operate and help himself like a big.. You guys don't know what you're talking about
Defensively, he might be good and so was Jud Buechler and Ed Najera[/QUOTE]
Flagg is leading the team in rebounds at 8.8 per game. Next closest is their center at 6.2. he also leads the team in blocks. Given the fact that he is only 17 I think that is a good indicator that his future is at the 4/5.
[QUOTE=3ba11;14958923]that's what you said in 2019.. I was right then and I'm right now as usual, and you're in denial and deflect mode as usual.. carry on[/QUOTE]
I don’t think I said anything about Ingram in 2019. But you’re right about what..? That he would become an above average scorer and low impact guy overall? Cool..
That he’d make one all star team and then become an obsolete guy on a bad team? Sick prediction bro.
Ingram and Flagg are similar in terms of height, arm span, leg length, and vertical reach. Cooper is way more sturdily built; his frame/bone structure is just thicker and he plays way more physically than Brandon ever has or ever will.
Flagg doesn't need to blow by guys. He's got all the ingredients for a potent bully-ball/backdown game, like Brunson, Luka, LeBron, Randle, Siakam, etc. It's a viable primary shot creation method. Gets into the teeth of the paint to collapse the defense and create open opportunities for teammates.
Flagg is more like Jalen Brown in college than Brandon Ingram imo. Perimeter skills a bit underpolished, playing as a face-up 4.
Flagg is going to get bigger/slower defenders on him than Ingram, because he's a strength mismatch on more guys. Against Arizona they tried a smaller guy on him, and he bullied them. Then a bigger guy, and he out quicked them. It's a bit like a young LeBron's mismatch....quicker than anyone his strength/size and stronger than anyone as quick as him.
Flagg and Ingram, what a weird comparison they're nothing alike :oldlol:
Big test for Coop tonight against an Auburn team who I believe are the best team in the country
[QUOTE=Manny98;14961041]Big test for Coop tonight against an Auburn team who I believe are the best team in the country[/QUOTE]
Yeah recording that one. I have some concerns about Cooper on offense. His shot hasn't been good but i am more concerned with his handles. He's had a lot of ball handling turnovers, some of which seemed really unforced.
Defensively he has been as good as advertised.
Dukes defense is insane, Flagg is tasked with leading the offense and being the defensive anchor
So far I don't see him as a number one offensive option type of guy
Cooper is a really good rebounder for his size. Shawn Marion vibes.
[QUOTE=Manny98;14961171]Dukes defense is insane, Flagg is tasked with leading the offense and being the defensive anchor
So far I don't see him as a number one offensive option type of guy[/QUOTE]
Thats what Ive been saying. He grew into his man-body earlier than all his peers so hes able to dominate at the younger levels. But hes not a 'skill set savant' like a 17 y/o Lebron or Luka. Once he goes up against more physically mature competition he loses his dominant edge.
But he is only 17. He'll get more polished. He can become something along the lines of an Aaron Gordon, Franz Wagner type at the very least. Best case scenario is probably Giannis, who was skinnier and less skilled than Flag at the same age. If Flagg lives in the gym and takes advantage of all the bulldozing and traveling the NBA lets stars get away with, I guess theres no reason he couldnt eventually do what Giannis does, IF theyre comparable in terms of standing reach, which is what really measures a guy's practical basketball length and what makes G so dominant. His length lets him get the ball so close to the basket on so many of his drives that he cant miss or get blocked.
It's a shame basketball measurements are so needlessly flimsy and unreliable, they make these comparisons very difficult.
Came up big tonight. 17 y/o freshman going at it with the 5th-year senior NPOY favorite. Just needs to keep working on that shot.
[QUOTE=Im Still Ballin;14961196]Came up big tonight. [B]17 y/o freshman going at it with the 5th-year senior NPOY favorite.[/B] Just needs to keep working on that shot.[/QUOTE]
Very impressive :applause:
Broome has treated everyone like children this year and Cooper was the grown-ass man on the court last night. His shot is still wonky, and was particularly off in the first half, but he was the best player.
He's nuts defensively and bullied and team in the paint that is used to bullying people.
Cooper's TS last night was 47% which is his season average. That is a bit discouraging for a guy that can get a lot of easy baskets bullying smaller players. At least he didnt turn it over.
Coop will be an all-star within the first 3 seasons. Book it!
Coop covers a ridiculous amount of ground per dribble. Look at the clip at 1:15 below:
[url]https://twitter.com/Frankie_Vision/status/1864533690375680039[/url]
[img]https://i.ibb.co/gTVQbJt/9cspas.gif[/img]
Coop has a lot of potential for a Siakam-esque post-up game. He's got all the qualities to do it:
- Strong, wide-bodied frame with a sturdy base
- Great reach and span
- Long strides and good footwork
- Absorbs contact well + seeks contact
- Elite two-footed jumper
- Good shooting touch 15ft and in
- Hard-to-block high release on jump shot
I'd like to see him work from the mid-post more when they go to him for an iso instead of trying to take guys off the dribble from the three-point line. Especially in the clutch. The main benefit would be turnover reduction.
His perimeter/SF/off-the-dribble game needs work but he looks like he's suited to a PF style of offense. Playing from the elbow/mid-post where everything is one dribble to the rim. Think KG, Bosh, Amar'e, Webber, BooZer, etc
[video=youtube;qKH7DNGAcbI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKH7DNGAcbI[/video]
I don't see him ever becoming an elite first option in the NBA, and that's fine.
He could be a solid 3rd guy on a playoff team with legit two way impact. Maybe make a couple of all star games.
[QUOTE=3ba11;14958835]Let's take Brandon Ingram and make him worse in every way = Cooper Flagg[/QUOTE]
:roll:
[QUOTE=Im Still Ballin;14961303]Coop covers a ridiculous amount of ground per dribble. Look at the clip at 1:15 below:
[url]https://twitter.com/Frankie_Vision/status/1864533690375680039[/url]
[img]https://i.ibb.co/gTVQbJt/9cspas.gif[/img][/QUOTE]
He's extremely coordinated for his size and strength.
I'm thinking a mix of Tatum and AK 47 is kind of apt. If he keeps growing and is more 6'10 to 6'11ish, then you could get into a mix of guys like Nance, Chambers, Cliff Robinson, and Detlef. I don't think you can really pinpoint one player.
When it comes to the KG comp, KG is for all intetns and purposes the FIRST positionless 7 foot two way player in the league. Flagg has postionless qualities too of course. BUT guys like KG and Giannis are in their own league for what they do around that 7 foot mark. IN terms of positonless two way 7 foot players. BUT Flagg could grow to be closer to their height. So that could be more apt as time goes on. But as of now, I'm diggin the Tatum-AK 47 comp.
[QUOTE=bizil;14961428]I'm thinking a mix of Tatum and AK 47 is kind of apt. If he keeps growing and is more 6'10 to 6'11ish, then you could get into a mix of guys like Nance, Chambers, Cliff Robinson, and Detlef. I don't think you can really pinpoint one player.
When it comes to the KG comp, KG is for all intetns and purposes the FIRST positionless 7 foot two way player in the league. Flagg has postionless qualities too of course. BUT guys like KG and Giannis are in their own league for what they do around that 7 foot mark. IN terms of positonless two way 7 foot players. BUT Flagg could grow to be closer to their height. So that could be more apt as time goes on. But as of now, I'm diggin the Tatum-AK 47 comp.[/QUOTE]
I like it. The OG Thorpesaurus said this about the Flagg-Tatum similarities:
[QUOTE=Thorpesaurous;14927450]I get a little of another one and done Dukie. Jason Tatum. The size is closer to PF, but not quite filled out. But the off the bounce shooting and in transition finishing has a little Tatum in it. He's better than Tatum was at that age on D, and on the glass, but Tatum rounded into a pretty high level rebounder. Flagg's a better shot blocker, and seems like a slightly better athlete in general. But he definitely reminds me of him in a bunch of ways.[/QUOTE]
Tatum/AK-47 lines up with that pretty well.
Highlights from tonight's win:
[video=youtube;iHjiJ015B08]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHjiJ015B08[/video]
[url]https://x.com/brhoops/status/1865928299635265781[/url]
- 20 points, 12 rebounds, 1 assist, 2 steals, 1 block
- 8-17 FG, 1-3 3PT, 3-3 FT
I don't feel the Tatum comparisons at all, Coop is just bigger, wider and longer and looks to drive more than Tatum, takes longer strides and is more aggressive.
I get more of a KD feel except the shooting, but in the way he attacks the basket with long strides.
Aside from shooting he looks really good. Problem is that shooting is a pretty big issue in today's NBA. I counted only two made shots outside 3 feet.
This draft class is pretty strong. If the draft was today I probably take Harper before Flagg.
which nba team will get him? wiz? or will the spurs get the lucky bounce again :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=90sgoat;14961789]I don't feel the Tatum comparisons at all, Coop is just bigger, wider and longer and looks to drive more than Tatum, takes longer strides and is more aggressive.
I get more of a KD feel except the shooting, but in the way he attacks the basket with long strides.[/QUOTE]
BUT KD's the best shooting SF of ALL TIME! So shooting is a HUGE PART of KD's arsenal. He's a 50-40-90 guy. Plus KD is in that 6'11 to 7 foot range. That's why I said a Tatum-AK 47 combination. Tatum has put on weight and gotten stronger since's he's been in the league. And he plays mainly at the PF spot. And Tatum plays MORE PHYSICAL than KD does. AND has more positional versatility as a defender. And when you throw AK-47 stuff into the mix, that gives the freak athletic aggressive nature part. With Flagg,you can't compare him to just one player. He's a mix of some guys.
[QUOTE=tontoz;14961793]Aside from shooting he looks really good. Problem is that shooting is a pretty big issue in today's NBA. I counted only two made shots outside 3 feet.
This draft class is pretty strong. If the draft was today I probably take Harper before Flagg.[/QUOTE]
I’d probably still take Cooper first because of the 2 way impact he absolutely will have.
Harper reminds of a lefty SGA at times though. Not overly athletic but so smooth and crafty. Converts on every level.
Ace Bailey has been a little disappointing. His shot-making ability is absurd but that’s kind of it at the moment. No play-making or defense. He just kind of does his own thing.
[QUOTE=bizil;14961797]BUT KD's the best shooting SF of ALL TIME! So shooting is a HUGE PART of KD's arsenal. He's a 50-40-90 guy. Plus KD is in that 6'11 to 7 foot range. That's why I said a Tatum-AK 47 combination. Tatum has put on weight and gotten stronger since's he's been in the league. And he plays mainly at the PF spot. And Tatum plays MORE PHYSICAL than KD does. AND has more positional versatility as a defender. And when you throw AK-47 stuff into the mix, that gives the freak athletic aggressive nature part. With Flagg,you can't compare him to just one player. He's a mix of some guys.[/QUOTE]
I never watched AK-47 play so that won't work for me lol.
I would say maybe Clifford Robinson? Played and guarded 3 through 5 and had that long build but moved like a big guard.
[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;14961798]I’d probably still take Cooper first because of the 2 way impact he absolutely will have.
Harper reminds of a lefty SGA at times though. Not overly athletic but so smooth and crafty. Converts on every level.
Ace Bailey has been a little disappointing. His shot-making ability is absurd but that’s kind of it at the moment. No play-making or defense. He just kind of does his own thing.[/QUOTE]
You must not have watched Bailey much if you think he doesn't play defense. From what I have seen he is a good defender. He has a good motor, is very vocal and uses his speed and length effectively.
I don't see the big two way impact with Flagg. He gets a lot of easy buckets because of his size and athleticism right now but he won't get as many at the next level. When he has to rely on skill the results haven't been great. His jumper has been bad so far, from midrange and from 3.
He isn't going to be a big rim protector in the NBA. He's only averaging 2 blocks per 40 minutes in college. That's less than half what Clingan had last season.
Who is the best euro for the upcoming draft?
[QUOTE=90sgoat;14961803]Who is the best euro for the upcoming draft?[/QUOTE]
Probably Demin, a freshman for BYU.
[QUOTE=90sgoat;14961800]I never watched AK-47 play so that won't work for me lol.
I would say maybe Clifford Robinson? Played and guarded 3 through 5 and had that long build but moved like a big guard.[/QUOTE]
LOL!! Yep Ciff Robinson was one I mentioned earlier too. I think a hybrid of Cliff-Chambers-Nance-Detlef could be applied to Flagg as a comp. Defensive versatility of Cliff, freak athletic top notch scoring like Chambers, elite shot blocking freak athletic forward like Nance, could function as a point forward from the SF or PF while getting 8-10 RPG like Detlef. Flagg is so unique can't compare him to one player.
[QUOTE=Im Still Ballin;14961303]Coop covers a ridiculous amount of ground per dribble. Look at the clip at 1:15 below:
[url]https://twitter.com/Frankie_Vision/status/1864533690375680039[/url]
[img]https://i.ibb.co/gTVQbJt/9cspas.gif[/img][/QUOTE]
That navigational efficiency with the change of speed and soft touch to finish. Damn. Impressive.
[QUOTE=tontoz;14961801]You must not have watched Bailey much if you think he doesn't play defense. From what I have seen he is a good defender. He has a good motor, is very vocal and uses his speed and length effectively.
I don't see the big two way impact with Flagg. He gets a lot of easy buckets because of his size and athleticism right now but he won't get as many at the next level. When he has to rely on skill the results haven't been great. His jumper has been bad so far, from midrange and from 3.
He isn't going to be a big rim protector in the NBA. He's only averaging 2 blocks per 40 minutes in college. That's less than half what Clingan had last season.[/QUOTE]
I've watched almost every Rutgers game this year. He gets away with his length and athleticism so on this level his defense is..fine. I don't know if that will convert all that well but I could be wrong and I hope I am because he's fun to watch.
As for Cooper, yes he will have a significant two-way impact. The size and athleticism you speak of is true because he's really strong and lengthy. He'll get even more easy buckets with the extra spacing and his transition game will be excellent. He also just has a nose for the ball and where to go with it. Not really something you can describe with a stat sheet but anything 50/50 is his, even if it's the likely player of the year in college basketball. These things will play in the NBA.