MJ dunks over Hakeem

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;14945133]Why does reasonably, and agendalessly, stating Calderon's strengths as a player in a natural response to something where he was already brought up rile you up so much?

Nobody said anything about Bosh having any sort of level of help or not help. That wasn't the discussion.

You've been doing this so long it truly doesn't seem like your mind lets you go into certain things without the layers of agenda clouding it.[/QUOTE]


Jose riles people up. This was among the responses to the “Jose isn’t an all star” posts from 2007


[QUOTE]
Wow go die. I dont understand what was running through your brain for you to post this? Tell me you haven't graduated elementary school or that you're a big time drug addict to justify this completely horse **** post, pelase. Cmon get to it.

[/QUOTE]


in response to someone pointing out that not everybody who is a better shooter than Jason Kidd is an All Star.

That man had a following.

My combination of thinking he wasn’t an All Star(just really good) and Bosh was a middling All-Star had Canadians at my ****ing neck.

[QUOTE=warriorfan;14945138]I was insinuating Bosh didn’t have help in Toronto when mentioning Jose. This was pretty obvious.

When someone replies back about how Jose Calderon actually wasn’t that bad/underrated/whatever the ****, they are insinuating that he actually had more help than people think.

We all know Jose Calderon isn’t a needle mover, I don’t think anyone asked for a detailed Jose Calderon breakdown in this thread or particularly care, Jose was just an example of Bosh having shitty teams in Toronto. (I think all sane people can agree on that)[/QUOTE]

He was a really good shooter and a really good play-making point guard. These things both being true doesn't make Chris Bosh worse or the team as a whole better than they actually were.

All stemmed from Gilbert Arenas on his blog(he’s been at it a while):

[QUOTE]
On the East side, I don’t know if there were any big snubs. I mean, some people wanted Jose Calderon. Jose Calderon? Who? Come on man, this is All-Star, people. When I’ve seen some of the names that are being thrown around on the ticker as snubs, it’s killing me. I understand Calderon has the best assist-turnover ratio in the league, but you know what’s funny? All back-up point guards have the best assist-turnover ratios. Screw it, Kevin Ollie should be an All-Star then! For like five or six years, Ollie was No. 1 in assist-turnover ratio!
I’ve been loving the way he’s been playing for the last two years. When he first came into the league he was a little timid and scared to shoot the ball, but he’s taking over that team. But All-Star? He’s about 20 years away from being an All-Star.


[/QUOTE]


he had fans and the whole sports media outraged at his disrespect of the efficiency. This is one of the more levelheaded responses


[QUOTE]
Whether or not Calderon should or should not be an All-Star remains up for discussion. But assessing the guy the way Arenas did shouldn't be part of that discussion.
This 'back-up' has started 35 of the 49 games in which he has played, and he averages 31.7 minutes per game. That assist-to-turnover ratio of 5.56-to-1 comes from the fact that he averages 8.9 assists and 1.6 turnovers per game. Nobody else in basketball has a ratio so high as 4.5-to-1. The 8.9 assists per game put him in fifth in the league, behind only Steve Nash, Chris Paul, Jason Kidd and Deron Williams, three of whom play out West.
In case that wasn't enough, Calderon's efficiency shooting the basketball is similar to his efficiency passing it, as he shoots 53.3 percent from the field, 46.1 percent from deep and 92.1 percent from the foul line. With Calderon starting, the Raps are 20-15. When that isn't the case, they are just 7-7.
Maybe he isn't an All-Star, but Jose Calderon [I]is[/I]most certainly an impact player.

[/QUOTE]


I’m going to hunt down some TJ Ford talks as well. Looking at his numbers you wouldn’t believe the shit Raptor fans were telling me. They legit thought I hated TJ because I thought Kirk Hinrich was better as a rookie. I don’t know which one of them I heard the most about in that era but people thought I was if anything underrating the other Raptors.

The raptors had a big fanbase at the time.

I think it’s hilarious this dude is having a meltdown over McDyess being compared to Bosh but expects us to believe it’s reasonable to say Bosh>Pippen.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;14945143]Jose riles people up. This was among the responses to the “Jose isn’t an all star” posts from 2007





in response to someone pointing out that not everybody who is a better shooter than Jason Kidd is an All Star.

That man had a following.

My combination of thinking he wasn’t an All Star(just really good) and Bosh was a middling All-Star had Canadians at my ****ing neck.[/QUOTE]

He was a good pg. Solid.

-Smak

It's no shame being compared to McDyess. He was a baller prior to his injury. That said, I'd say peak Bosh was a bit better because he was more consistent.

[QUOTE=RRR3;14945182]I think it’s hilarious this dude is having a meltdown over McDyess being compared to Bosh but expects us to believe it’s reasonable to say Bosh>Pippen.[/QUOTE]


The pre-injury McDyess is a great example - that's Pippen's caliber and actually McDyess was a better talent but simply didn't have the winning spotlight of playing with Jordan, or the perfect no-pressure role in a system with good coaching - McDyess was All-NBA without the winning spotlight of titles and perfect situation for development that Pippen needed.

Jordan + any McDyess/Pippen/Nance-level talent or even less will win [I]every year[/I] in a 2-star vs 2-star format, and they will still find rings in the 80's super-team era too... MJ/Pippen probably win 2-3 rings in the 80's against those super-teams, and obviously Jordan wins every year in a 2-star vs 2-star format (parity)..

Basically, if you give MJ a similar cast to everyone else, he wins every year, and he still wins a few in eras where his lone all-star teammate is outmatched by 3 or 4 from the opponent.

As a new poster I’m trying to gather the cliff notes for this thread.

It seems like posters would like to conflate Scottie Pippen, Chris Bosh, and Antonio McDyess.

Interesting how Lebron only was able to win with a McDyess type player as a third option. Both MJ and Kobe were able to win with a McDyess type as their second.