The Bulls will regret their decision if they draft Rose over Beasley

[QUOTE=gts]:confusedshrug:

Do still post here just not as much... majority of the threads are fairly well trolled now, not even worth wasting the time when the average response will be tldr, 6-24 or 2-5[/QUOTE]
They really have cleaned that up now. That craziness is gone. Still a bit of it but very different from yesterday.

actually, aside from his MVP year, Rose has been pretty much useless for the Bulls. 2 seasons sidelined, and this season still in question. if anything, the Bulls should regret for not taking Russel Westbrook.

[QUOTE=Papaya Petee]Wade averaged 26\6\5\2\1 on 50% that year while sharing the spotlight with LeBron. Already numbers better than Rose that year, plus better defensively. If LeBron wasn't on the Heat he would of averaged about 28\7\5. No argument Wade was better.

.[/QUOTE]


wade 17.5 points on .38% while being assisted 38 percent of the time with 16/8 record. D rose 47.8 points on .402% and assisted 12 percent of the time with 30/10 record.

yea, wade was better than rose. :facepalm retards.

btw, miami had a losing record against elite teams 7-9 while bulls had a winning record of 12-9. lebron and wade must have played really good. d rose produced more than lebron againt elite competition while having a better record. dont even make me look up wades stats.

[QUOTE=I<3NBA]actually, [B]aside from his MVP year[/B], Rose has been pretty much useless for the Bulls. 2 seasons sidelined, and this season still in question. if anything, the Bulls should regret for not taking Russel Westbrook.[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't exactly call 6% particularly useful

[QUOTE=I<3NBA]actually, aside from his MVP year, Rose has been pretty much useless for the Bulls. 2 seasons sidelined, and this season still in question. if anything, the Bulls should regret for not taking Russel Westbrook.[/QUOTE]

No, accidents happen. Part of life. You only regret guys who don't try hard enough or don't want it bad enough.

Westbrook on the Bulls wouldn't have gotten them a ring either.

OP, what does it feel like to be a rocket scientist?

I'm still laughing at this one.

[QUOTE=nathanjizzle]wade 17.5 points on .38% while being assisted 38 percent of the time with 16/8 record. D rose 47.8 points on .402% and assisted 12 percent of the time with 30/10 record.

yea, wade was better than rose. :facepalm retards.

btw, miami had a losing record against elite teams 7-9 while bulls had a winning record of 12-9. lebron and wade must have played really good. d rose produced more than lebron againt elite competition while having a better record. dont even make me look up wades stats.[/QUOTE]
:oldlol: @ Comparing Wade and Rose. Rose might've been the MVP, but he certainly was not a better player than Wade.

Wade averaged 7/2/1 on 45/32/72 in the 4th and 3 PPG on 50/50/100 in OT.
Rose averaged 6/2/1 on 42/34/88 in the 5th and 3 PPG on 32/34/100 in OT.

Those are just the numbers, BTW. I'm not even bringing up the defensive impact that Wade brought. Dwyane Wade was 16th in DPOY voting for the RS as well.

Since you're bringing up team records and records against elite teams, what happened in the Playoffs? What happened to the Rose Bulls which was able to beat all the elite teams in the league?

[QUOTE=outbreak]I like Rose and I think he's a great player but I also think Dwight deserved the MVP that year over Rose and I hate Dwight. Rose got lucky with his MVP. He was (and still may be) an MVP calibre player and should have been in the discussion I just don't think he deserved to win it.[/QUOTE]


I thought Chris Paul was the better player and deserved MVP back in 08, but Lebron still deserved it 100% because he met the criteria of an MVP.

There are plenty of MVP winners who weren't necessarily the best player that year, but because of team record and stats combined, they won it.

All I'm saying is, people get so upset over the MVP and who it gets awarded to.

What they don't realise is, it's a highly flawed award that shouldn't be taken too seriously. It has too many variables and bullshit to trust it 100%

[QUOTE=poido123][B]I thought Chris Paul was the better player and deserved MVP back in 08, but Lebron still deserved it 100% because he met the criteria of an MVP.[/B]

There are plenty of MVP winners who weren't necessarily the best player that year, but because of team record and stats combined, they won it.

All I'm saying is, people get so upset over the MVP and who it gets awarded to.

What they don't realise is, it's a highly flawed award that shouldn't be taken too seriously. It has too many variables and bullshit to trust it 100%[/QUOTE]
Kobe won the MVP in '08.

[QUOTE=ralph_i_el]We all understand WHY Rose won the MVP
[B]Just don't act like he was actually a top-3 player[/B][/QUOTE]


Yeah, he was.

Bulls had a very impressive year and their record reflected that. The best player on the team also had a great statistical year, so Rose makes an excellent choice for MVP based on the judging criteria. 62 wins is a standout year and deserves extra weight behind it.

Only Lebron and maybe Howard had a case over him. Who else?

And howard's team record wasn't in line with judging criteria. Not always the rule, but they do use team record as a big part in judging it.

Lebron had an excellent season but had a lower team record. Lebron had a higher PER and higher in some statistical categories, but he's also a PG in a SF's body which gives him advantages at rebounding and other statistics.

[QUOTE=poido123]Yeah, he was.

Bulls had a very impressive year and their record reflected that. The best player on the team also had a great statistical year, so Rose makes an excellent choice for MVP based on the judging criteria. 62 wins is a standout year and deserves extra weight behind it.

Only Lebron and maybe Howard had a case over him. Who else?

And howard's team record wasn't in line with judging criteria. Not always the rule, but they do use team record as a big part in judging it.

Lebron had an excellent season but had a lower team record. Lebron had a higher PER and higher in some statistical categories, but he's also a PG in a SF's body which gives him advantages at rebounding and other statistics.[/QUOTE]

dude rose was never better than lebron, durant, and westbrook

[QUOTE=aj1987]Kobe won the MVP in '08.[/QUOTE]


08-09.

You know what year I'm talking about based on Chris Paul being in the running.

All im saying is that Beasley has been to the finals.

His impact is greater than Roses

[QUOTE=aj1987]:oldlol: @ Comparing Wade and Rose. Rose might've been the MVP, but he certainly was not a better player than Wade.

Wade averaged 7/2/1 on 45/32/72 in the 4th and 3 PPG on 50/50/100 in OT.
Rose averaged 6/2/1 on 42/34/88 in the 5th and 3 PPG on 32/34/100 in OT.

Those are just the numbers, BTW. I'm not even bringing up the defensive impact that Wade brought. Dwyane Wade was 16th in DPOY voting for the RS as well.

Since you're bringing up team records and records against elite teams, what happened in the Playoffs? What happened to the Rose Bulls which was able to beat all the elite teams in the league?[/QUOTE]
Rose had waaaaay more responsibilities, had waaaay less help, and veteran teams with three top players at three positions ALWAYs beat new young teams in a new system - that's the way the playoffs work. So the formation of a super team happened. What Wade did that year was not on the level of what Rose did.

[QUOTE=russwest0]dude rose was never better than lebron, durant, and westbrook[/QUOTE]


Y'all need to go read how they judge an MVP.

I don't like the way an award is judged either, but you can't blame Rose for that.

[QUOTE=poido123]Y'all need to go read how they judge an MVP.

I don't like the way an award is judged either, but you can't blame Rose for that.[/QUOTE]

nah dude I'm agreeing with you, it's a pointless ass award, i was just saying that he was never a top 3 player

[QUOTE=russwest0]nah dude I'm agreeing with you, it's a pointless ass award, i was just saying that he was never a top 3 player[/QUOTE]


:cheers:

That's cool.

It just bothers me when people say he didn't deserve it. Based on the criteria he did? But yeah, perhaps Lebron or Howard were better and that's fine.

[QUOTE=Cocaine80s]All im saying is that Beasley has been to the finals.

His impact is greater than Roses[/QUOTE]


:facepalm

Seriously Chicago fans trying to argue that Rose has ever (or will ever) been/be better than Wade in 2011. Your incessant overrating of Rose is why no-one likes the personality-less piece of glass.

:facepalm

[QUOTE=poido123]08-09.

You know what year I'm talking about based on Chris Paul being in the running.[/QUOTE]
How the hell is he gonna win MVP on a 49 win team?

LeBron - 28.4 PPG 7.6 RPG 7.2 APG 1.7 SPG 1.1 BPG on 59% TS (66 WINS) #2 in DPOY voting as well.
Paul - 22.8 PPG 5.5 RPG 11.8 APG 2.8 SPG 0.1 BPG on 60% TS (49 WINS)

[QUOTE= Pointguard]Rose had waaaaay more responsibilities, had waaaay less help, and veteran teams with three top players at three positions ALWAYs beat new young teams in a new system - that's the way the playoffs work. So the formation of a super team happened. What Wade did that year was not on the level of what Rose did.[/QUOTE]
Dude had the best defensive team in the NBA and a damn good coach in Thibs. Stop acting like Rose had no help. He had a 17/6/3 player in Deng, a 18/10/3/1 player in Boozer, 12/10/2/1/2 Noah (made the All-D team) etc.. The Heat team was pretty much garbage outside of the big 3. Rose was required to play on only side of the floor, because his team was able to cover his defensive inabilities. Wade was required to play on both sides of the floor. Again, Rose [I]might've[/I] deserved the MVP, but he wasn't a better player than Wade. Heck, swap Wade and Rose, the Bulls would've take the Heat to 7 games.

[QUOTE=Pointguard]No, accidents happen. Part of life. You only regret guys who don't try hard enough or don't want it bad enough.

Westbrook on the Bulls wouldn't have gotten them a ring either.[/QUOTE]
but at least he would have played in 2012 and 2013, and in all probability Chicago would have been in the ECF battling Miami in place of the Pacers.

[QUOTE=aj1987]How the hell is he gonna win MVP on a 49 win team?

LeBron - 28.4 PPG 7.6 RPG 7.2 APG 1.7 SPG 1.1 BPG on 59% TS (66 WINS) #2 in DPOY voting as well.
Paul - 22.8 PPG 5.5 RPG 11.8 APG 2.8 SPG 0.1 BPG on 60% TS (49 WINS)


Dude had the best defensive team in the NBA and a damn good coach in Thibs. Stop acting like Rose had no help. He had a 17/6/3 player in Deng, a 18/10/3/1 player in Boozer, 12/10/2/1/2 Noah (made the All-D team) etc.. The Heat team was pretty much garbage outside of the big 3. Rose was required to play on only side of the floor, because his team was able to cover his defensive inabilities. Wade was required to play on both sides of the floor. Again, Rose [I]might've[/I] deserved the MVP, but he wasn't a better player than Wade. Heck, swap Wade and Rose, the Bulls would've take the Heat to 7 games.[/QUOTE]


I may have a year mixed up, but I was saying that I thought Paul had a standout year for the Hornets and I thought he was the best player all year.

However, Lebron deserved the award, he also had a great statistical season and had a good team record.

The point i was making is, the best player in a year does not always get the award. System is flawed.

Aside from LeBron's years in Miami or now in Cleveland, Rose has been the superstar with the most stacked team.


Some people want to credit all of Chicago's success to Rose, but the fact remains that the Bulls win with or without Rose. Thibs + Noah = heart and soul of the team.

[QUOTE=Kiddlovesnets]If Beasley turns out to be merely another Lamar Odom then he's a bust...[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=MiseryCityTexas]Lol he didn't even reach Lamar odom's level.:oldlol:[/QUOTE]

Yeah.

Odom was a bit frustrating as he could have been a lot more, he was very talented IMO, but was still better than Beasley has ever proven to be.

And not by a little.

[QUOTE=Dresta]Your incessant overrating of Rose is why no-one likes the personality-less piece of glass.

:facepalm[/QUOTE]

why would you let some trolls on an online messageboard stop you enjoying one of the most exciting players of his generation?

you probably spend too much time on here, or take it too seriously if this is the case.

You can't argue like that, who knows how Beasley would have developed in a different environment. If Chicago drafted him maybe he would be a Top-5 player in the league now, who knows, the talent seemed to be there.

[QUOTE=poido123]I may have a year mixed up, but I was saying that I thought Paul had a standout year for the Hornets and I thought he was the best player all year.

However, Lebron deserved the award, he also had a great statistical season and had a good team record.

[B]The point i was making is, the best player in a year does not always get the award. System is flawed.[/B][/QUOTE]
Not really. Except for the Nash and AI MVP's, they've been pretty spot on in the past ~30 years. They usually give it to players on teams with 50+ wins.

A few think that he should've won it in '08. The Hornets won 56 and dude put up incredible numbers (21/12/4/3 on 58% TS).

[QUOTE=Dresta]Seriously Chicago fans trying to argue that Rose has ever (or will ever) been/be better than Wade in 2011. Your incessant overrating of Rose is why no-one likes the personality-less piece of glass.

:facepalm[/QUOTE]

Do you seriously believe wade was better than rose in 2011?

Facing single coverage everywhere he went with a teammate that clearly outplayed him through the first 82 games of the RS and first 3 rounds of the playoffs and STILL putting up worse stats w/much less clutch performances? Winning less games with Lebron and Bosh than Rose did with an injured trio of taj/noah/boozer?


Rose had to face wade/bosh/lebron all ganging up on him.. with keith bogans and deng as his wings.. two guys who can barely dribble against a good, let alone great defense.. With how wade played in that chicago series with piss poor numbers, if you were to switch spots with him and rose I wouldnt even want to know what the disparity would be. Wade on an island in 2011 facing double teams from lebron/bosh/rose might shoot sub 40TS( he already shot sub 50TS with all the pressure relieved and facing single coverage as bron and bosh had dominant series).

[QUOTE=noob cake]Rose has been the superstar with the most stacked team.
[/QUOTE]

If you TRULY believe this, you should stop watching basketball. The bulls have not had a true #2 talent since Scottie Pippen. Luol Deng was the third or 4th best player on a championship team and Noah lacks major offensive talent. The Bulls have had deep benches, but consistently have major holes in the starting lineup. They started Freaking Keith Bogans and Rip Hamilton when Rose was leading them to #1 seeds. Dunleavy is projected to be their starting SF this year. I can name 5-7 teams in the league that were a more stacked team than the Bulls of 2010-2014.

[QUOTE=aj1987]
Dude had the best defensive team in the NBA and a damn good coach in Thibs. Stop acting like Rose had no help. He had a 17/6/3 player in Deng, a 18/10/3/1 player in Boozer, 12/10/2/1/2 Noah (made the All-D team) etc. [/quote]
Deng was steady, and consistent through out the year. Rarely ever has a 30 point game. Didn't get more than 21 points in a game that series despite them throwing the kitchen sink at Rose. Boozer and Noah were both benched twice in fourth quarters in that series. Could you imagine Lebron and Bosh being benched in the fourth quarters??? Boozer did not know the offensive sets and often got in Rose's way. Noah was a 6/10 guy in that series. Noah just wasn't a good player and should have been benched. And this is what you are comparing to Lebron and Bosh to.
[quote]
. The Heat team was pretty much garbage outside of the big 3. Rose was required to play on only side of the floor, because his team was able to cover his defensive inabilities. Wade was required to play on both sides of the floor. Again, Rose [I]might've[/I] deserved the MVP, but he wasn't a better player than Wade. Heck, swap Wade and Rose, the Bulls would've take the Heat to 7 games.[/QUOTE]
:lol defensive inabilities? In case you didn't know Rose was the third best defender of the starters.

*The team had the best perimeter defense where there is less help than any place on the floor. The only penetrating point guards in the league were Parker and Paul. I don't recall Paul playing them that year and Rose routinely kills Parker anyway. So team defense had little to do with anything. Nice try though.

*Rose was put on Wade because he is the best one on one defender in the back court.

*Rose shut Wade down in two games in the fourth quarter in the ECF. In fact played Wade as good as I seen anybody play a healthy Wade in the playoffs.

*Wade doesn't control a game like Rose does. Teams didn't run on the Bulls.

*Wade on the Bulls instead of Rose? Wade wasn't successful that year when he was the second best player on his team, had the games best creator, had the games best finisher, the games best player, and a great front office.

*Wade had championship players and way more experienced veteran role players.

*Wade has never done anything in his career without a great offensive distraction on his team.

*Rose didn't have finishers, creators or steady good players in the playoffs outside of Deng. Much less a better player!

Rose did more for his team than Wade did. Wade had more help. You couldn't throw the kitchen sink at Wade and Wade didn't up his game when the better player on the team sat out. At least do that much.

[QUOTE=Dresta]Seriously Chicago fans trying to argue that Rose has ever (or will ever) been/be better than Wade in 2011. Your incessant overrating of Rose is why no-one likes the personality-less piece of glass.

:facepalm[/QUOTE]
Wow, that was really childish? You OK???

[QUOTE=tpols]Do you seriously believe wade was better than rose in 2011?[/quote]
Yes. He was. Don't kid yourself. Rose was on an incredible defensive team. The Bulls beat their opponents with their defense. As I said, swap Wade and Rose. The Bulls would take the Heat to 7 in the ECF. They probably would win more games in the RS as well.

Defense - Wade
Scoring - Wade

Wade literally does everything better than Rose.

26/6/5/2/1 on 58% in the RS vs 25/4/8/1/1 on 55% TS.
24/7/4/2/1 on 55% in the PO vs 27/4/8/1/1 on 50% TS.

[QUOTE=tpols]With how wade played in that chicago series with piss poor numbers, if you were to switch spots with him and rose I wouldnt even want to know what the disparity would be.[/quote]
Yeah, he played poorly against the Bulls, who were the best defensive team in the NBA. He did score 30/7/5/2/1 on 62% TS against the #2 defense in the ECSF.

[QUOTE=tpols]Wade on an island in 2011 facing double teams from lebron/bosh/rose might shoot sub 40TS( he already shot sub 50TS with all the pressure relieved and facing single coverage as bron and bosh had dominant series).[/QUOTE]
:facepalm

An 18/10 Boozer. :oldlol: Goes for 14/10 versus the heat. Shoots 49TS.

Meanwhile Chris Bosh goes for 23/8 on 68TS :eek: :eek:


A 12/10 Noah.. goes for 6/10 on 34TS. That is almost unbelievable.

Deng played alright.. he couldnt dribble at the end of games if his life depended on it, but he put up a somehwat respectable 17 on 53TS. Of course thats nothing compared to the help Wade got at SF.. 26/8/7 57TS from Lebron.

Help aint close. Stop it.


Wade wasnt even a first team all NBAer in 2011.. he didnt even finish top 5 in MVP voting. :oldlol:

[QUOTE=Pointguard]Deng was steady, and consistent through out the year. Rarely ever has a 30 point game. Didn't get more than 21 points in a game that series despite them throwing the kitchen sink at Rose. Boozer and Noah were both benched twice in fourth quarters in that series. Could you imagine Lebron and Bosh being benched in the fourth quarters??? Boozer did not know the offensive sets and often got in Rose's way. Noah was a 6/10 guy in that series. Noah just wasn't a good player and should have been benched. And this is what you are comparing to Lebron and Bosh to.[/quote]
Are you trying to say that Rose carried that team? :facepalm

As I said, that team was DAMN good defensively and has two 15+ PPG scorers. Stop pretending like Wade wouldn't get the same/better results with that team.

[QUOTE=Pointguard]defensive inabilities? In case you didn't know Rose was the third best defender of the starters. [/quote]
I've seen a ton of Bulls games and Rose was never a good defender. He was average at best. Meanwhile, Wade was probably the 2nd best defender on the Heat.


[QUOTE=Pointguard]The team had the best perimeter defense where there is less help than any place on the floor. The only penetrating point guards in the league were Parker and Paul. I don't recall Paul playing them that year and Rose routinely kills Parker anyway. So team defense had little to do with anything. Nice try though.[/quote]
What? Wade can guard PG-SF. Is more versatile and a MUCH better defensive player than Rose EVER was or EVER will be.

[QUOTE=Pointguard]Rose shut Wade down in two games in the fourth quarter in the ECF. In fact played Wade as good as I seen anybody play a healthy Wade in the playoffs.[/quote]
Wade struggled the ENTIRE series. You think Rose can actually "shutdown" Wade? :oldlol:

[QUOTE=Pointguard]*Wade doesn't control a game like Rose does. Teams didn't run on the Bulls. [/quote]
:oldlol:

Are you serious, dude?

[QUOTE=Pointguard]*Wade on the Bulls instead of Rose? Wade wasn't successful that year when he was the second best player on his team, had the games best creator, had the games best finisher, the games best player, and a great front office.[/quote]
What does that have to do with swapping Wade and Rose? Wade is a flat out better player than Rose ever Wade or ever will be.

[QUOTE=Pointguard]*Wade had championship players and way more experienced veteran role players.[/quote]
Doesn't change the [B]fact[/B] that the team outside the big 3 was GARBAGE.

[QUOTE=Pointguard]*Wade has never done anything in his career without a great offensive distraction on his team.[/quote]
13 PPG Shaq was a huge offensive distraction, right? Idiot. What has Rose accomplished? Other than the MVP (which should've rightfully gone to LeBron/Dwight/Dirk) he won? Shot 6% in the clutch in the ECF. Shot 49% TS in the entire playoffs. Give him a slightly worse team, and the Bulls would be back in the lottery.

BTW, put '11 Rose on the '09 and '10 Heat, they'd be lucky to win 20+ games. The mental midget would shit himself without the best defense in the league.

[QUOTE=Pointguard]Rose did more for his team than Wade did. Wade had more help. You couldn't throw the kitchen sink at Wade and Wade didn't up his game when the better player on the team sat out. At least do that much.[/QUOTE]
:wtf:

As I said, Wade is better than Rose at every aspect of basketball. Deal with it.

[QUOTE=tpols]An 18/10 Boozer. :oldlol: Goes for 14/10 versus the heat. Shoots 49TS.

Meanwhile Chris Bosh goes for 23/8 on 68TS :eek: :eek:


A 12/10 Noah.. goes for 6/10 on 34TS. That is almost unbelievable.

Deng played alright.. he couldnt dribble at the end of games if his life depended on it, but he put up a somehwat respectable 17 on 53TS. Of course thats nothing compared to the help Wade got at SF.. 26/8/7 57TS from Lebron.

Help aint close. Stop it.


Wade wasnt even a first team all NBAer in 2011.. he didnt even finish top 5 in MVP voting. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
You're the dumbass who said Westbrook is better than Wade.

[QUOTE=aj1987]Yes. He was. Don't kid yourself. Rose was on an incredible defensive team. The Bulls beat their opponents with their defense. As I said, swap Wade and Rose. The Bulls would take the Heat to 7 in the ECF. They probably would win more games in the RS as well.

Defense - Wade
Scoring - Wade

Wade literally does everything better than Rose.

26/6/5/2/1 on 58% in the RS vs 25/4/8/1/1 on

Yeah, he played poorly against the Bulls, who were the best defensive team in the NBA. He did score 30/7/5/2/1 on 62% TS against the #2 defense in the ECSF.

:facepalm[/QUOTE]
They were 23 and 28th in offense without Rose. Carrying and winning with a young inexperienced team is very different than being the second best player on your team. No exceptions.

Wade has never had any success carrying a big offensive burden in like 12 years now. In his best year '09 it didn't happen.

[QUOTE=Pointguard]They were 23 and 28th in offense without Rose. Carrying and winning with a young inexperienced team is very different than being the second best player on your team. No exceptions.

Wade has never had any success carrying a big offensive burden in like 12 years now. In his best year '09 it didn't happen.[/QUOTE]
Do you know who Wade's teammates were in '09? Whenever he had even a decent team around him, he made deep playoff runs. Carry offensive burden? Yeah, Rose and his 25 PPG carried the Bulls to 60+ wins and the ECF. Not the team defense. :facepalm

I still don't understand why people who have never seen pre-decision Wade post about him. Rose is not even on the same tier as Wade as a player.

[B]Originally Posted by Pointguard[/B]
Deng was steady, and consistent through out the year. Rarely ever has a 30 point game. Didn't get more than 21 points in a game that series despite them throwing the kitchen sink at Rose. Boozer and Noah were both benched twice in fourth quarters in that series. Could you imagine Lebron and Bosh being benched in the fourth quarters??? Boozer did not know the offensive sets and often got in Rose's way. Noah was a 6/10 guy in that series. Noah just wasn't a good player and should have been benched. And this is what you are comparing to Lebron and Bosh to.
[QUOTE=aj1987]Are you trying to say that Rose carried that team? :facepalm [/quote]
I didn't say anything there remotely like that. Noah and Boozer weren't great for the team in that series. If Lebron and Bosh played as ineffective, Chicago would have destroyed Miami. Especially with Rose taking Wade off his game. And that wasn't a team effort.
[quote]
As I said, that team was DAMN good defensively and has two 15+ PPG scorers. Stop pretending like Wade wouldn't get the same/better results with that team. [/quote]
See above.

[quote]
I've seen a ton of Bulls games and Rose was never a good defender. He was average at best. Meanwhile, Wade was probably the 2nd best defender on the Heat. [/quote]
What games were you watching? You are a Heat guy - you seen Rose work Wade. How is it that you didn't watch those games. You think every elite point guard just had bad games. That's a big coincidence. Something that escaped Wade his entire career when their were way less effective SG.

[B]Originally Posted by Pointguard[/B]
The team had the best perimeter defense where there is less help than any place on the floor. The only penetrating point guards in the league were Parker and Paul. I don't recall Paul playing them that year and Rose routinely kills Parker anyway. So team defense had little to do with anything. Nice try though.
[quote]
What? Wade can guard PG-SF. Is more versatile and a MUCH better defensive player than Rose EVER was or EVER will be. [/quote]
This has absolutely nothing to do with what I wrote??? You just respond to yourself after quoting me??? This is the second time you've done this in this one post? You got concentration problems?
[quote]
Wade struggled the ENTIRE series. You think Rose can actually "shutdown" Wade? :oldlol:
[/quote]
Sorry dude, when you are the second best player on the team, you shouldn't have the convenience of an excuse maker. Wade did well when Rose wasn't guarding him. Sorry it was directly related to Rose playing him. I'm sure you got another "beta" excuse.

[quote]
What does that have to do with swapping Wade and Rose? Wade is a flat out better player than Rose ever Wade or ever will be. [/quote]
Sorry, second best player on his team can't claim the brunt of success, responsibility or transformation of a team moreso than a main player. When Lebron played bad Wade couldn't help. That's bad. The winning was on Lebron's shoulders. Lebron had Rose's responsibility in carrying the team. Wade is on another level - [B]one of less responsibility and effectiveness.[/B]
[quote]
Doesn't change the [B]fact[/B] that the team outside the big 3 was GARBAGE. [/quote]

Sorry guy. Top talent wins in this league more so than any other quality. They had veteran role players and were expected to be much better than Chicago.
[quote]
13 PPG Shaq was a huge offensive distraction, right? [B]Idiot[/B]. What has Rose accomplished? Other than the MVP (which should've rightfully gone to LeBron/Dwight/Dirk) he won? Shot 6% in the clutch in the ECF. Shot 49% TS in the entire playoffs. Give him a slightly worse team, and the Bulls would be back in the lottery. [/quote]

:lol ok clown, now that I know know you just don't watch games or have zero knowledge of it, and will lie and name call to make yourself look like something of a fan Shaq was getting 20ppg and was still the most deadly player in the deep post in the game and shooting over 60%. Even if you don't have your stats right, you aren't blind. You don't know what you are talking about and just clueless hater without even a pretense of knowing what the game is about.

[QUOTE=aj1987]Do you know who Wade's teammates were in '09? Whenever he had even a decent team around him, he made deep playoff runs. Carry offensive burden? Yeah, Rose and his 25 PPG carried the Bulls to 60+ wins and the ECF. Not the team defense. :facepalm [/quote]
The team had the best perimeter defense. Rose contained all of the elite at his position. He controlled the pace of the game which was key to them winning. Sorry he was a key part of team defense.
[quote]
I still don't understand why people who have never seen pre-decision Wade post about him. Rose is not even on the same tier as Wade as a player.[/QUOTE]
Sorry you pay for teaming up with other players, and a better player and not delivering. Wade doesn't get Alpha status when he [B]volunteered to be a Beta.[/B] Plain and simple. Unfortunately that is his reality. He was a great player before that. I have no problem with that. He was better than Rose when he was in charge. But if he can't step up, after coasting on a better player all year, on his team - he shouldn't be compared to other guys that got that responsibility of carrying a team with some success.

[QUOTE=Pointguard]I didn't say anything there remotely like that. Noah and Boozer weren't great for the team in that series. If Lebron and Bosh played as ineffective, Chicago would have destroyed Miami. Especially with Rose taking Wade off his game. And that wasn't a team effort.[/quote]
Why are you bringing up a FIVE game sample, when I was talking about the whole year?

[QUOTE=Pointguard]What games were you watching? You are a Heat guy - you seen Rose work Wade. How is it that you didn't watch those games. You think every elite point guard just had bad games. That's a big coincidence. Something that escaped Wade his entire career when their were way less effective SG.[/quote]
Yeah, LOL! You must be the only person in the world who thinks Rose is a good defender. Dude is AVERAGE. Do you think his team had nothing to do with it?
As I said, Wade was an elite defender. Rose wasn't even remotely close.

[QUOTE=Pointguard]This has absolutely nothing to do with what I wrote??? You just respond to yourself after quoting me??? This is the second time you've done this in this one post? You got concentration problems?[/quote]
Can't you read simple English? We're comparing two players. Wade's defense >>>> Rose's defense. It's as simple as that.

Rose sucked ass against the Thunder, TP averaged 6 PPG more than his RS average against Rose, Curry averaged more than his RS average, etc. You were saying?

[QUOTE=Pointguard]Sorry dude, when you are the second best player on the team, you shouldn't have the convenience of an excuse maker. Wade did well when Rose wasn't guarding him. Sorry it was directly related to Rose playing him. I'm sure you got another "beta" excuse.[/quote]
FACT: The Heat curb stomped the Bulls.
FACT: The Rose is an AVERAGE defender.
FACT: The Bulls team defense bothered Wade and his shot was off.


[QUOTE=Pointguard]Sorry, second best player on his team can't claim the brunt of success, responsibility or transformation of a team moreso than a main player. When Lebron played bad Wade couldn't help. That's bad. The winning was on Lebron's shoulders. Lebron had Rose's responsibility in carrying the team. Wade is on another level - [B]one of less responsibility and effectiveness.[/B][/quote]
Are you legit retarded or just trolling? Can't tell. What does any of that have to do with Wade being a significantly better player than Rose? If you're bringing up the Finals, LeBron sucked ass and Dirk was incredible in the clutch. If Rose was on the Heat in the Finals, Miami would've gotten SWEPT. Lets also not forget Wade's injury in game 5, which affected him the rest of the series.

[QUOTE=Pointguard]Sorry guy. Top talent wins in this league more so than any other quality. They had veteran role players and were expected to be much better than Chicago.[/quote]
They were expected to be better because the BIG 3, moron.


[QUOTE=Pointguard]:lol ok clown, now that I know know you just don't watch games or have zero knowledge of it, and will lie and name call to make yourself look like something of a fan Shaq was getting 20ppg and was still the most deadly player in the deep post in the game and shooting over 60%. Even if you don't have your stats right, you aren't blind. You don't know what you are talking about and just clueless hater without even a pretense of knowing what the game is about.[/QUOTE]
Listen up, shit for brains. Shaq sucked ass in the Finals. The same Shaq who averaged 13 PPG. Shaq was also an average to below average defender in '06. What happened to Shaq when Wade went down in the 2005 ECF? Is your dumbass also gonna pretend that the Heat were even remotely close to being good outside these two? Again, '11 Rose on the '05 and '06 Heat would've resulted in 2nd round losses at BEST. How are you gonna act like you know ANYTHING about basketball, when you think Rose is a better overall player than Wade? Or that Wade can't "take over" games? Or that Wade can't win without another offensive player? Oh, and Shaq averaged 18 PPG in the '06 Playoffs. 19 the previous year.

[QUOTE=Pointguard]The team had the best perimeter defense. Rose contained all of the elite at his position. He controlled the pace of the game which was key to them winning. Sorry he was a key part of team defense.[/quote]
:roll:

Rose sucked ass against the Thunder, TP averaged 6 PPG more than his RS average against Rose, Curry averaged more than his RS average, etc. You were saying?

Rose is an average defender at his BEST. Dude is not even on rookie Wade's level defensively.

[QUOTE=Pointguard]Sorry you pay for teaming up with other players, and a better player and not delivering. Wade doesn't get Alpha status when he [B]volunteered to be a Beta.[/B] Plain and simple. Unfortunately that is his reality. He was a great player before that. I have no problem with that. He was better than Rose when he was in charge. But if he can't step up, after coasting on a better player all year, on his team - he shouldn't be compared to other guys that got that responsibility of carrying a team with some success.[/QUOTE]
A Rose stan talking about being beta? Ironic. :oldlol:

Anyways, we're talking about '11. The year when Wade averaged more points that LeBron in the Playoffs. The year when they were 1a and 1b. Try to keep up, Mr. Special needs.

I'm done with this discussion. It's pretty clear that you're biased to the point of being delusional. For the final time, Wade > Rose offensively and defensively. Wade > Rose as a player and it's not even close.