Gervin " "I could get 30 or 40 every night real easy, these days"

[QUOTE=abuC]Hit register? This isnt Rocky 4, when did anyone calculate Mike's power? Also, George Foreman is probably the hardest puncher in heavyweight history.


Nope, there arent any heavyweights as gifted as Ali, but then again Boxing was second only to baseball then in terms of popularity, now you have a much smaller talent pool to pick from. Most American athletes that fit the body mold of heavyweight boxer are steered towards football or basketball.


Look, I get it, you think everything from 1960-1980 is greater than today, my grandfather is the same way about the 40s and 50s, that doesnt make it true.[/QUOTE]
No thats not my point my point is that todays basketball is not better than the old days just evolved with bigger stronger playerds due to modern tech. and training.

[QUOTE=Niquesports]I can agree with your point but with the exception of say maybe Kobe,LBJ that from what you have seen will be even considered in a all time class I already said Shaq and I dont think at this point in his career Paul is better that players like Tiny,Walt Frazier ect. but the jury is still out on him[/QUOTE]



If I had a crystal ball I'd be able to tell you, it's too hard to say who will be what, players emerge and some come from out of nowhere. In the 80s, people had their doubts about Jordan, look at how he turned out.

[QUOTE=abuC]Hit register? This isnt Rocky 4, when did anyone calculate Mike's power? Also, George Foreman is probably the hardest puncher in heavyweight history.


Nope, there arent any heavyweights as gifted as Ali, but then again Boxing was second only to baseball then in terms of popularity, now you have a much smaller talent pool to pick from. Most American athletes that fit the body mold of heavyweight boxer are steered towards football or basketball.


Look, I get it, you think everything from 1960-1980 is greater than today, my grandfather is the same way about the 40s and 50s, that doesnt make it true.[/QUOTE]

[B]Foreman i think has the strongest jab ever and overall Tyson has the strongest punch or upper cutt something like but here you go again: Foreman a boxer from the 70s-80s and early 90s and Tyson and 80s-90s Boxers. We are entering the year 2010 and still there is no heavy weight that has registered those types of punches. Then again, Ali-Clay from the 60s and 70s still there has not been a more skilled or quick heavy Weight till today. :confusedshrug: [/B]

[B][U]By the way increasing the Competition Pool does not mean that there will appear just by Magic Better Boxers, Players etc[/U]:no: ...that is actually totally biased because by doing so you are [COLOR="Blue"]"Spreading the Quality of Competition". "Compeition Which Overall Has Not Been Tested![/COLOR]. What makes you thinkl that there is actual QUALITY Competition?.

In the 80s very few players entered the NBA: American or Non American, so the level of competition and talent that entered the league was TOP of the TOP. Todays Europeans have gotten better in regards to their peer Americans but what is that has closen the gap between them and the Us? That gap has not closen only because of the popularity of the Sport World Wide and more people overseas playing but = [COLOR="blue"]European Players have Kept to the Fundamentals they saw in the 70s and 80s[/COLOR] [COLOR="DarkRed"]while Americans have not. [/COLOR]

That is why Any Average Role Player in Europe can play in the actual NBA back in the 90's and 80s very few could: players like Toni Kucoc, Petrovich, Saboins if they played in todays NBA PRIME ages 22 to 32 they would school BIg Time, Big Time because in the NBA for the last 10-12 years there has occured the entrance of to many unfundamental pricks that yes can Jump Nice, Dunk Cool, Have Some Nice Moves but have the worst of All Fundamentals Seen in 30 Years or So. :confusedshrug: [/B]

[QUOTE=Niquesports]No thats not my point my point is that todays basketball is not better than the old days just evolved with bigger stronger playerds due to modern tech. and training.[/QUOTE]

[B]Bigger stronger players? :no: :banghead: :hammerhead: :rolleyes:

Name one 6`4/6`5er in the NBA today that is as strong as Charles Barkley was? Yes the dude that picked up Shaq like a waste basket from the ground at age 36.?

I see none today :rolleyes:

Overall there is only one 7 footer that is as strong or stronger than Shaq and that is Wilt, a Player from the 60s escentially...I see none today other than Shaq

Name one PG stronger than Magic? I see none today

Name one one SG stronger than Jordan? I see none today

Actually in the 80s and 90s there was a tendancy to choose PFs that where stocky breed not thin breed like what i see today. Guys like Charles Oakley, Kevin Willis, Anthony Mason, Rick Mahorn, Otis Thorpe etc would crush 95% of the Powerforwards of today Strength wise because the NBA requiered physical play back then, while todays NBA has a policy of forced will in creating skilled players, because there arent many. Evidence: helping perimeter players score easier with the no handcheckin rules, easy lanes on to the basket, 5 second rule tured around the basket is anti Stocky Player etc..[/B]

[QUOTE=Sir Charles][B]Foreman i think has the strongest jab ever and overall Tyson has the strongest punch or upper cutt something like but here you go again: Foreman a boxer from the 70s-80s and early 90s and Tyson and 80s-90s Boxers. We are entering the year 2010 and still there is no heavy weight that has registered those types of punches. Then again, Ali-Clay from the 60s and 70s still there has not been a more skilled or quick heavy Weight till today. :confusedshrug: [/B][/quote]

What are you talking about, do you even know what a jab is? Foreman didnt even have a great jab, you clearly dont know anything about boxing and are just rambling. Tyson had explosive punches, but George and Earnie Shavers hit much much harder. The heavyweight division has been dead for the last 10 years, using it to try and prove some point is stupid. Again, the NFL and NBA are where all the prospects that fit the current modern heavyweight body type are at currently.

[quote][B][U]By the way increasing the Competition Pool does not mean that there will appear just by Magic Better Boxers, Players etc[/U]:no: ...that is actually totally biased because by doing so you are [COLOR="Blue"]"Spreading the Quality of Competition". "Compeition Which Overall Has Not Been Tested![/COLOR]. What makes you thinkl that there is actual QUALITY Competition?.[/b] [/quote]


:roll:

You cannot be serious, the modern heavyweight should be between 6"3 and 6"8 & between 240-260lbs, what athletes fit that criteria? No, better boxers wouldnt magically appear but there would be more people between that body type actually training and working on their skills. And anytime you increase a talent pool you end up with better competition in the long run, if the NBA sticks with 30 teams for the next 5-10 years you will see more and more quality players on each team. It's simple statistics.



[quote]In the 80s very few players entered the NBA: American or Non American, so the level of competition and talent that entered the league was TOP of the TOP. Todays Europeans have gotten better in regards to their peer Americans but what is the kep to the gap that has closen between them and the Us? That gap is not only popularity of the Sport World Wide but = [COLOR="blue"]European Players have Kept to the Fundamentals they saw in the 70s and 80s[/COLOR] while Americans have not.

That is why Any Average Role Player in Europe can play in the actual NBA back in the 90's and 80s very few could: players like Toni Kucoc, Petrovich, Saboins if they played in todays NBA PRIME ages 22 to 32 they would school BIg Time, Big Time because in the NBA for the last 10-12 years there has occured the entrance of to many unfundamental pricks that yes can Jump Nice, Dunk Cool, Have Some Nice Moves but have the worst of All Fundamentals Seen in 25 Years or So. :confusedshrug: [/B][/QUOTE]


This is complete and utter garbage, Im sorry but you're just not a rational thinker. You sound like an ESPN talking point with all this crap about fundamentals, basically regurgitating whatever trash you've picked up. Everything you've just vomited out is nothing more than opinion, where are the facts to back it up?

Maggette would be stronger than Jordan.

Gervin got 32 and 33 a game in the 80's, I think he would probably be around 28-30 today.

[QUOTE=G-train]Maggette would be stronger than Jordan.[/QUOTE]


No, Jordan used to bench press the team bus before games.


Also, Craig Smith is probably stronger than Barkley, and roughly the same height.

[QUOTE=Sir Charles][B]Bigger stronger players? :no: :banghead: :hammerhead: :rolleyes:

Name one 6`4/6`5er in the NBA today that is as strong as Charles Barkley was? Yes the dude that picked up Shaq like a waste basket from the ground at age 36.?

I see none today :rolleyes:

Overall there is only one 7 footer that is as strong or stronger than Shaq and that is Wilt, a Player from the 60s escentially...I see none today other than Shaq

Name one PG stronger than Magic? I see none today

Name one one SG stronger than Jordan? I see none today

Actually in the 80s and 90s there was a tendancy to choose PFs that where stocky breed not thin breed like what i see today. Guys like Charles Oakley, Kevin Willis, Anthony Mason, Rick Mahorn, Otis Thorpe etc would crush 95% of the Powerforwards of today Strength wise because the NBA requiered physical play back then, while todays NBA has a policy of forced will in creating skilled players, because there arent many. Evidence: helping perimeter players score easier with the no handcheckin rules, easy lanes on to the basket, 5 second rule tured around the basket is anti Stocky Player etc..[/B][/QUOTE]


IF you think any player in any other era is bigger than LBJ your nuts. I would say Kobe is just as strong as Jordan Maybe i didnt make my point because of conditioning changes players are strong that doesnt mean they had the same strength Wes Unseld was strong as a mule but I bet even in his prime he could out lift D Howard in a weight room.

[QUOTE=Niquesports]IF you think any player in any other era is bigger than LBJ your nuts. I would say Kobe is just as strong as Jordan Maybe i didnt make my point because of conditioning changes players are strong that doesnt mean they had the same strength Wes Unseld was strong as a mule but I bet even in his prime he could out lift D Howard in a weight room.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, LBJ's a freak of nature. Its not even funny how easily he gets to the hoop. Anyway, you cant really argue with Sir Charles. He hates the current players.

You cannot be serious, the modern heavyweight should be between 6"3 and 6"8 & between 240-260lbs, what athletes fit that criteria? No, better boxers wouldnt magically appear but there would be more people between that body type actually training and working on their skills. And anytime you increase a talent pool you end up with better competition in the long run, if the NBA sticks with 30 teams for the next 5-10 years you will see more and more quality players on each team. It's simple statistics.

This is complete and utter garbage, Im sorry but you're just not a rational thinker. You sound like an ESPN talking point with all this crap about fundamentals, basically regurgitating whatever trash you've picked up. Everything you've just vomited out is nothing more than opinion, where are the facts to back it up?[


[B]Statistics work nice if they have are taken from Tested & Ideal Pools if not everything goes biased...Just because overall there are More People Playing Basketball Does Not = Better Basketball Players it just = More People Playing Basketball. What makes you think that if more play Basketball they will GET BETTER? That may work for countries that never had basketball as top sport. You Getter Better by Playing with BETTER PLAYERS THAN YOU not by PLAYING MORE GAMES (MORE TEAMS etc)[/B]

[QUOTE=Sir Charles][B]Bigger stronger players? :no: :banghead: :hammerhead: :rolleyes:

Name one 6`4/6`5er in the NBA today that is as strong as Charles Barkley was? Yes the dude that picked up Shaq like a waste basket from the ground at age 36.?

I see none today :rolleyes:

Overall there is only one 7 footer that is as strong or stronger than Shaq and that is Wilt, a Player from the 60s escentially...I see none today other than Shaq

Name one PG stronger than Magic? I see none today

Name one one SG stronger than Jordan? I see none today

Actually in the 80s and 90s there was a tendancy to choose PFs that where stocky breed not thin breed like what i see today. Guys like Charles Oakley, Kevin Willis, Anthony Mason, Rick Mahorn, Otis Thorpe etc would crush 95% of the Powerforwards of today Strength wise because the NBA requiered physical play back then, while todays NBA has a policy of forced will in creating skilled players, because there arent many. Evidence: helping perimeter players score easier with the no handcheckin rules, easy lanes on to the basket, 5 second rule tured around the basket is anti Stocky Player etc..[/B][/QUOTE]

shut up bietch

[QUOTE=Sir Charles][B]Guys like Charles Oakley, Kevin Willis, Anthony Mason, Rick Mahorn, Otis Thorpe etc would crush 95% of the Powerforwards of today Strength wise because the NBA requiered physical play back then, while todays NBA has a policy of forced will in creating skilled players, because there arent many. [/B][/QUOTE]

agree with this point. 'N.B.A' used to stand for "No Babies Allowed". Now it stand for "No Bullies Allowed." :ohwell:

[QUOTE=plowking]If anything it has more to do with IQ today. The game is simply not free flowing like it used to be, and thats why I think it is less enjoyable to most these days, as rankings would suggest.

The game has improved, as all sports and progressive activities do over time.[/QUOTE]

agree. Like I say it is the way the game is played today. Over time it becomes less agressive and more entertainment. In the 1960s if I am not mistaken there was almost no limit to what the post defender could do to the offensive post up man. Then they changed the rule in 1992 or 93, no more could the post defender use his knee, elbows, or two hands in the back to play defense. They reduced contact allowed. Then again in 2004, they completely eliminate physical contact. :banghead: Talent is up now, but overall game and aggressiveness along with 50% of the game on the defensive end is gone. Of course the superstar today would be great then, but the role players and overall teams in the 1980s is > today:applause:

[QUOTE=Niquesports]IF you think any player in any other era is bigger than LBJ your nuts. I would say Kobe is just as strong as Jordan Maybe i didnt make my point because of conditioning changes players are strong that doesnt mean they had the same strength Wes Unseld was strong as a mule but I bet even in his prime he could out lift D Howard in a weight room.[/QUOTE]


[B]Bryant as strong as Jordan? :roll: :no: Look at the clips...

Which 6`4/6`5er of todays game is Stronger than Barkley? (Barkley was so strong 7 footers where afraid of him) Name me one! :rolleyes:

Which PG is tronger than Magic?...Name me one!

1980s and 1990s PFs.

*By the way lifting weights will get you stronger and increase your weight of muscule but overal will only explode on your natural strength. [U]It will not make you natural strength stronger than it is[/U]. There are many players whom don`t have nice looking muscules (seem flabby) or are not as stocky as you think and are stronger than you think: Barkley and Oakley where those (way stronger than their muscule tone or weight), Rodman was one (way stronger than his thin 6`6-6`7 220 lbs frame).[/B]

[B]Anthony Mason: 6`8 ft / 265 lbs[/B]

[img]http://www.nba.com/media/amason_300_080412.jpg[/img]

[B]Charles Oakley: 6`8 ft / 245-260 lbs[/B]

[img]http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/image/1999/12/22/001291736.jpg[/img]

[img]http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/news/2001/02/27/sayitaintso_knicks/oakley_all.jpg[/img]

[B]Kevin Willis: 7`0 / 245 lbs[/B]

[img]http://www.nba.com/media/hawks/willis_gallery1_254.jpg[/img]

[B]Charles Barkley: 6`4-6`5 ft/ 284-252 lbs (although rarely below 260 lbs, 252 for like 2-3 season at most)[/B]

[img]http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/image/1985/05/05/001093665.jpg[/img]

[B]Otis Thorpe: 6`10 ft/ 248 lbs[/B]

[img]http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/image/1993/02/25/001093687.jpg[/img]

[B]Larry Nance: 6`10 ft/ 235 lbs[/B]

[img]http://pagesperso-orange.fr/nba-history/images/as/nance_295_ADB20.jpg[/img]