1994 Knicks vs Bulls Game 3. What was Pippen thinking?

[QUOTE=Mister JT]I don't think that you can say that he VOLUNTARILY ALLOWED himself to be the number 2 option for 6 title runs. He wasn't gonna be the Bulls' number 1 option as long as MJ was playing, even if he tried his absolute best to be one.

However, if you mean that he STUCK IT OUT with the Bulls longer than he had to, despite how Krause treated him, to win 5 or 6 championships instead of maybe 4 or 5, then I agree with you.[/QUOTE]

I agree. One thing people don't seem to bring up with Pippen is that although he didn't seem to mind being a 2nd option, he had alot of problems with the fact that he was horribly underpaid. I think at anytime during those years if Pippen could've left the Bulls and gotten out of that contract and sign a better contract with another team, he would've. I'm not blaming him. I'm just saying he was already stuck in a situation that Jerry Krause wasn't going to get him out of, so he made the most of it.

[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock]Was the Kerr play called for Kerr?



The play was changed to him. Who knows what he would have done if it remained designed for Corzine. Why was he even arguing? Those are precious seconds with the season on the line and he was wasting time calling for the ball instead of discussing how to perfectly execute the play.

He did in effect bench himself in Game 5 of the ECF with the series tied 2-2. He took 8 shots the entire game. Why? His coach (Collins) asked him to pass the ball more because he was taking over 30% of the shots. He tanked a game with the series tied. He gets a free pass for this?



Ask his teammates or Jackson what he did. When a player was having a bad shooting night Pippen worked harder to get him the ball and would work the offense to get him a good shot to keep his confidence up and involved in the game. Some others tended to cut players off if that happened. Pippen offered constructive leadership. His leadership was one of encouragement, not scolding. He didn't sacrifice his stats or accolades? Pippen could have blown up the team a la Shaq-Kobe by demanding a trade so he could win as "the man" or demanding more shots.



It is annoying for over a decade to see Pippen get crucified for this while Jordan, Kobe, a certain 60's great among others all get a free pass for doing similar things during entire games or halves of important games, not merely refusing to inbound the ball. In Magic's case getting a coach who just led you to a championship was selfish yet Magic is presented as the ultimate team player. Good. He was--just like Pippen. Yet Pippen's black mark on his copybook is always mentioned while Magic's not so much. These are just a few exampes.



Nah, at least not thus far. Some good may come out this thread. The people who bring this up the most here are MJ fans. If they learn that their hero had similar, arguably worse (one play vs. an entire game) moments maybe they will stop doing it. 99% of his fans don't even know about what he did because it has been airbrushed from history.



Dominant defender? Pippen was a very good three point shooter but I wouldn't compare his three point shot to Reggie Miller's.[/QUOTE]

I agree with pretty much everything you're saying, but Kobe gets a free pass? LOL. Where have you been the last 5 years? Kobe gets crucified for every little fault he makes. Nothing has been forgotten about Kobe. Pippen has one thing that people remember in a negative light, and as for myself, I don't even talk about that when discussing Pippen's greatness.

[QUOTE=Da_Realist]Jordan had 18 points, 5 rebounds and 9 assists.

Here's the game for those interested. It's one of those games I want to update (add more footage and improve the quality) but there's enough for anyone to watch and make up their own minds.
[url]http://www.youtube.com/user/tjhunt76#g/c/E996199CF0192C40[/url]

My opinion is Jordan didn't shoot as much as he usually did or as much as he should have, but he didn't stop [I]playing[/I]. He still played great d, dished the ball... It wasn't the same as what Kobe did against the Suns where he totally stopped playing and camped out behind the 3 pt line. But that's my opinion.

By the way...did I read that Doug Collins wanted to go to Dave Corzine on the last play in Cleveland with the Bulls down one? If he did, I have two thoughts...

1) Jordan should have been mad. Dave f*cking Corzine??? He had a nice little jumpshot that he could knock down from time to time when he was wide open, but c'mon. Jordan being mad at that (if true) is what separates him from the rest. He knew he had a better chance to make the shot than anyone else on the team and he probably would have gone out in the first round if he decided to be a "team player" in that situation. Guess what? Basketball rewards team play... but there are times when it pays to be [I]selfish[/I]. That's a dirty little secret no one wants to admit because it doesn't sound good. Just like there are times to lie. But that's another thread.

2) Doug Collins should have been fired if he called that play for Dave Corzine. I don't believe it. Doug is smarter than that. Jordan was going OFF that quarter and had knocked down the Bulls' previous shot to give them the lead before Ehlo put Cleveland back in the lead.

By the way...since everything these days seem to be centered on how selfish Jordan was...some of you ought to read Craig Hodges account of what happened on that last play. He said he screwed up by allowing Ehlo to backdoor him for the layup. After the play, Jordan came over and told him, "don't worry. I'm not going to let us lose this game." I forgot where I heard/read this. Maybe in David Halberstam's book.

*edit* I just looked at the replays. Dave Corzine wasn't even on the court! I skimmed through the whole 4th quarter, I didn't see Dave Corzine until the Bulls called a timeout and he was wearing his warmup jacket :oldlol: The lineup was Jordan, Hodges, Pippen, Grant and Cartwright for most of the fourth quarter with Sellers getting some time at the end.

As far as Pippen's play...I never hammered him for it. It was a selfish move...but I understand that sometimes you have to be selfish. Not all the time. Not most of the time, but sometimes. He thought that was his time and he wanted to take it. He paid his dues and felt like he deserved it. I never thought any less of Scottie for that moment.

RR, I got your PM's. I'll respond when I get a chance. Family's visiting for the holidays...[/QUOTE]

Videos updated...

[QUOTE=Da_Realist;3805696]Jordan had 18 points, 5 rebounds and 9 assists.

Here's the game for those interested. It's one of those games I want to update (add more footage and improve the quality) but there's enough for anyone to watch and make up their own minds.
[url]http://www.youtube.com/user/tjhunt76#g/c/E996199CF0192C40[/url]

My opinion is Jordan didn't shoot as much as he usually did or as much as he should have, but he didn't stop [I]playing[/I]. He still played great d, dished the ball... It wasn't the same as what Kobe did against the Suns where he totally stopped playing and camped out behind the 3 pt line. But that's my opinion.

By the way...did I read that Doug Collins wanted to go to Dave Corzine on the last play in Cleveland with the Bulls down one? If he did, I have two thoughts...

1) Jordan should have been mad. Dave f*cking Corzine??? He had a nice little jumpshot that he could knock down from time to time when he was wide open, but c'mon. Jordan being mad at that (if true) is what separates him from the rest. He knew he had a better chance to make the shot than anyone else on the team and he probably would have gone out in the first round if he decided to be a "team player" in that situation. Guess what? Basketball rewards team play... but there are times when it pays to be [I]selfish[/I]. That's a dirty little secret no one wants to admit because it doesn't sound good. Just like there are times to lie. But that's another thread.

2) Doug Collins should have been fired if he called that play for Dave Corzine. I don't believe it. Doug is smarter than that. Jordan was going OFF that quarter and had knocked down the Bulls' previous shot to give them the lead before Ehlo put Cleveland back in the lead.

By the way...since everything these days seem to be centered on how selfish Jordan was...some of you ought to read Craig Hodges account of what happened on that last play. He said he screwed up by allowing Ehlo to backdoor him for the layup. After the play, Jordan came over and told him, "don't worry. I'm not going to let us lose this game." I forgot where I heard/read this. Maybe in David Halberstam's book.

*edit* I just looked at the replays. Dave Corzine wasn't even on the court! I skimmed through the whole 4th quarter, I didn't see Dave Corzine until the Bulls called a timeout and he was wearing his warmup jacket :oldlol: The lineup was Jordan, Hodges, Pippen, Grant and Cartwright for most of the fourth quarter with Sellers getting some time at the end.

As far as Pippen's play...I never hammered him for it. It was a selfish move...but I understand that sometimes you have to be selfish. Not all the time. Not most of the time, but sometimes. He thought that was his time and he wanted to take it. He paid his dues and felt like he deserved it. I never thought any less of Scottie for that moment.[/QUOTE]

Yo DR,

Do you still have some of these games on DVD? Was looking to acquire a few.

Can't message you here but throw me an email: [email]goldenhoops32@gmail.com[/email] -- look forward to hearing from you

[QUOTE=EricForman;3806440]He's a pip fanboy, so he gets a bit defensive. i mean he actually thinks pip with mitch richmond, kevin johnson and rik smits would top 6 rings in the 90s. so he thinks they could win 7 rings in the 90s. with that lineup.

yeah.[/QUOTE]

This take is a banger.lol.
Tho they would be playoff contenders

[QUOTE=nayte;14900950]This take is a banger.lol.
Tho they would be playoff contenders[/QUOTE]

Even if that team was completely average after the top 4 that’s still easily one of the best teams in the league.

Everyone in Chicago remembers this, even if they weren’t alive when it happened. Their older relatives told them about it.

Really harmed Pippen’s legacy amongst all the non-black fans.
Often, it’s the second thing old white dudes mention about pippen, after saying what a well rounded perennial all star he was. Sometimes the first thing older Balkans living in Chicago bring up about Pippen.

I'll give Knicks the nod in 7