[QUOTE=Prime_Shaq]:roll: :roll: :roll:[/QUOTE]
I'm being generous here. We all know Kobe was actually the better player at the same time.
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[QUOTE=Prime_Shaq]:roll: :roll: :roll:[/QUOTE]
I'm being generous here. We all know Kobe was actually the better player at the same time.
Kobe made 3 straight finals w/o Shaq and won 2 FMVPS without him also
Shaq never even came close to that type of production without Kobe,,
Kobe had an all 3rd team player in Gasol,,
Shaq had an all 1st team player in Penny..
[QUOTE=TheMarkMadsen]Kobe made 3 straight finals w/o Shaq and won 2 FMVPS without him also
Shaq never even came close to that type of production without Kobe,,
Kobe had an all 3rd team player in Gasol,,
Shaq had an all 1st team player in Penny..[/QUOTE]
not to mention that Kobe led the 2001 Lakers in Winshares in the Playoffs and easily had the better numbers on the road and through the 1st 3 rounds for that run. And he wasn't at his prime while Shaq was.
[QUOTE=ImKobe]2001 Kobe at 21-22 yrs old was as good as prime Shaq.[/QUOTE]
:biggums: ...:biggums: ...:biggums: ...:biggums:
Wow.
You just can't help yourself can you?
You stupid, stupid bastard.
Remember when the argument was "Kobe has done nothing without Shaq"
and then Kobe made 3 straight finals as the undisputed man of his team :lol :lol
Has there ever been a better "2nd option" than Kobe in 01 (again I don't understand how you're the 2nd option if the offense revolves around you taking the most shots per game while going undefeated through the playoffs)
please find me another playoff run where the team won a championship and the guy leading the team in FGA's ring.. "didn't count"
To Kobe fans, Kobe is a great player but he benefitted greatly from playing with Prime Shaq. Prime Shaq commanded double teams and triple teams with opened up so much space for the rest of the team to work (Kobe). Teams had to change their game plan so much for Shaq. Shaq's scoring is often highlighted but let's not forget his role in the triangle offense and his intimidation factor in the paint and his underrated defense.
You may talk about Shaq losing in the 1995 finals but he put up 28 PPG 12.5 RPG 6.3 APG 2.5 BPG on 59% FG while holding his own against an all-time great center in Hakeem. Shaq showed up with his teammates didn't.
As Shaq aged his game had to change as well and it showed in the 2006 Finals. He deferred to Wade as his offense declined but he still commanded respect in the paint and did his part to anchor that championship defense.
Let us also not forget the 2004 Finals where Shaq put up 26.6 PPG and 10.5 RPG on 63% FG while Kobe chucked his way to 22.6 PPG 4.4 APG on 38% FG 17% 3PT and refused to feed Shaq when Shaq was dominating inside. Cost them both a ring.
I'm not even saying Kobe is a bad player, he's an all-time great but there are very few, if any player better than Prime Shaq.
[QUOTE=Prime_Shaq][B]To Kobe fans, Kobe is a great player but he benefitted greatly from playing with Prime Shaq.[/B] Prime Shaq commanded double teams and triple teams with opened up so much space for the rest of the team to work (Kobe). Teams had to change their game plan so much for Shaq. Shaq's scoring is often highlighted but let's not forget his role in the triangle offense and his intimidation factor in the paint and his underrated defense.
You may talk about Shaq losing in the 1995 finals but he put up 28 PPG 12.5 RPG 6.3 APG 2.5 BPG on 59% FG while holding his own against an all-time great center in Hakeem. Shaq showed up with his teammates didn't.
As Shaq aged his game had to change as well and it showed in the 2006 Finals. He deferred to Wade as his offense declined but he still commanded respect in the paint and did his part to anchor that championship defense.
Let us also not forget the 2004 Finals where Shaq put up 26.6 PPG and 10.5 RPG on 63% FG while Kobe chucked his way to 22.6 PPG 4.4 APG on 38% FG 17% 3PT and refused to feed Shaq when Shaq was dominating inside. Cost them both a ring.
I'm not even saying Kobe is a bad player, he's an all-time great but there are very few, if any player better than Prime Shaq.[/QUOTE]
And Shaq didn't benefit greatly from playing with Kobe?
tell me.. what did Shaq do without Kobe?
He played with 2 other all nba first team players.. so obiously the MDE won with those guys multipe times and made multiple finals????
SHOW ME??
Kobe mad 3 straight finals with a 18/10 PF next to him..
Shaq needed Kobe to lead the 4th quarter playoff scoring in b2b years (01 & 02) while Kobe averaged 28/6/6 and Wade had the an historic or rigged (whichever you choose) to give Shaq his only ring w/o Kobe
Kobe is the only player in the top 10 all time to make 3 straight finals twice in his career.. IMPACT
What's more replacable if you're a GM?
A 28/6/6 SG with all NBA defense or a 18/10 PF with no all nba defese
Kobe did so much more without Shaq that Shaq did with him
THAT HAS TO COUNT FOR SOMETHING..? considering most idiots were compelletley judging Kobe's career based on what he was able to do without Shaq..
of course that was before Kobe led his team to 3 straight finals with nothing more than an all NBA 3rd team player...
something Shaq could never do
you've got to love how ironic the time period for "prime Shaq" is
just so happens that Shaq hits his "prime" as soon as Kobe becomes a supestar
just so happens that Shaq's "prime" ends as soon as Kobe gets injured in 03..
lets just ignore that the Lakers had 3 all star guard beside Kobe (Penny, Van Exel, Jones) before this and never won a finals game with them
lets just ignore that Lakers in 99 were swept by the Spurs... and then in 01 Shaq puts up the almost the same production and all of a sudden the Lakers dominantly sweep the Spurs..
:roll: :roll:
had nothing do with Kobe averaing 33/7/7..
it was all "prime Shaq"
please.. please.. somebody explain the difference betwee 99 & 2000/01 Shaq.. besides the fact that Duncan wasn't playing 00 and in 01 Kobe was putting up Jordan esque numbers
LOL @ Kobe trolls
Oh dey mad :roll:
PLease tell me how valuable Kobe's 15ppg on 41% shooting was crucial for Shaq's 2000 championship?? :oldlol:
Kobe was along for ride, don't get it twisted. They win with or without Kobe.
[QUOTE=TheMarkMadsen]you've got to love how ironic the time period for "prime Shaq" is
just so happens that Shaq hits his "prime" as soon as Kobe becomes a supestar
just so happens that Shaq's "prime" ends as soon as Kobe gets injured in 03..
lets just ignore that the Lakers had 3 all star guard beside Kobe (Penny, Van Exel, Jones) before this and never won a finals game with them
lets just ignore that Lakers in 99 were swept by the Spurs... and then in 01 Shaq puts up the almost the same production and all of a sudden the Lakers dominantly sweep the Spurs..
:roll: :roll:
had nothing do with Kobe averaing 33/7/7..
it was all "prime Shaq"
please.. please.. somebody explain the difference betwee 99 & 2000/01 Shaq.. besides the fact that Duncan wasn't playing 00 and in 01 Kobe was putting up Jordan esque numbers[/QUOTE]
Moreso than Kobe was Phil Jackson's motivation and triangle offense, brought out the best in Shaq's abilities. You compare Penny and Pau, how about the rest of the roster? Kobe had by far the best frontcourt in the league with Bynum/Gasol/Odom. Prime Shaq didnt end in 2003, you could still see how dominant he was till 2006. He was even robbed of a MVP in 2005.
[QUOTE=Prime_Shaq]Moreso than Kobe was Phil Jackson's motivation and triangle offense, brought out the best in Shaq's abilities. You compare Penny and Pau, how about the rest of the roster? [B]Kobe had by far the best frontcourt in the league with Bynum/Gasol/Odom.[/B] Prime Shaq didnt end in 2003, you could still see how dominant he was till 2006. He was even robbed of a MVP in 2005.[/QUOTE]
:roll: :roll:
Utah, Celtics, Houston all had better front courts without even really trying to think..
Duncan, Dirk, KG, Dwight > Pau
it's not like Pau wasn't good, but you idiots overrate him to the point where he needs to be brought down
please tell me Pau/Odom was better than having Dwight/Gorat..KG/Perkins/ Duncan/whoever...Milsap/Boozer/Okur...Yao/Scola/Battieryou
are really bringing up Bynum who's best playoff run during championshiop years was 9/7.. and the year before that was 6/4
guess we should be bringing up Luc Longley and Chris Anderso too? Elden Campbell>>>
Kobe & Phil made 3 straight finals and won 2 b2b rings with an 18/10 guy replacing Shaq..
Shaq had 20/5/5 guys in place of Kobe..
and never did shit..
simple question try not to dodge this.. but what did Shaq do without Kobe?
[QUOTE=TheMarkMadsen]:roll: :roll:
Utah, Celtics, Houston all had better front courts without even really trying to think..
Duncan, Dirk, KG, Dwight > Pau
it's not like Pau wasn't good, but you idiots overrate him to the point where he needs to be brought down
please tell me Pau/Odom was better than having Dwight/Gorat..KG/Perkins/ Duncan/whoever...Milsap/Boozer/Okur...Yao/Scola/Battier
Kobe & Phil made 3 straight finals and wo 2 b2b rings with an 18/10 guy replacing Shaq..
simple question try not to dodge this.. but what did Shaq do without Kobe?[/QUOTE]
Hmmm... reach the Finals in his 3rd year, put up monster stats ever since he entered the league and ultimately did win a ring without Kobe. Btw the Gasol/Bynum/Odom frontline was the best frontcourt, undoubtedly.
[QUOTE] Hmmm... reach the Finals in his 3rd year[/QUOTE]
and got swept with an all nba first team guard beside him
[QUOTE]put up monster stats ever since he entered the league [B]and ultimately did win a ring without Kobe[/B] [/QUOTE]
only with the 3rd GOAT shooting guard of all time having an all time great/rigged finals
[QUOTE] Btw the Gasol/Bynum/Odom frontline was the best frontcourt, undoubtedly.[/QUOTE]
already destroyed this
Utah, Boston, Houston and Orlando all better
[QUOTE=Prime_Shaq]Hmmm... reach the Finals in his 3rd year, put up monster stats ever since he entered the league and ultimately did win a ring without Kobe. Btw the Gasol/Bynum/Odom frontline was the best frontcourt, undoubtedly.[/QUOTE]
Don't bother...they are Kobe stans. They aren't worth it.
[QUOTE=TheMarkMadsen]and got swept with an all nba first team guard beside him
only with the 3rd GOAT shooting guard of all time having an all time great/rigged finals
[Prime_Shaq]Btw the Gasol/Bynum/Odom frontline was the best frontcourt, undoubtedly.[/QUOTE]
already destroyed this
Utah, Boston, Houston and Orlando all better[/QUOTE]
Already posted his 1995 Finals stats earlier, that lost was not on him. The rest is debatable but at the end of the day he did win a ring. You didn't destroy anything, all you stated was your opinion.