Peak Alonzo Mourning or Peak Dwight Howard

[QUOTE=ronnymac]Alonzo would break you're nose if you went up against him while Dwight will probaly just smile at you. Zo was a tough SOB who took no nonsense from anyone.Plus Zo atleast had a pretty realiable jumper on him along with some good low post scoring ability with a few moves and had a nice hook shot.[/QUOTE]

Tell all the people who have been battered by Dwight that he just flashes a smile in the paint.

And reliable jumper or not, they're PPG averages are almost identical and Howard adds several more blocks.

Mourning was more skilled for sure, but Dwight attracts more attention, I'd take Dwight, but he needs to improve without question.

[QUOTE=Bladers]All you fools need to take your [B]sunglasses off[/B] and look closely at their stats!!!

:wtf:[/QUOTE]
YEAH! Lets judge everyone by stats.

I'll take Spencer Haywood in my top 5.

[QUOTE=Bladers]All you fools need to take your [B]sunglasses off[/B] and look closely at their stats!!!

:wtf:[/QUOTE]
All fools like you need to stop caring about stats. Oh wait, that's all you got to go on because you are too young to have watched Zo.

[QUOTE=zORi]Of course that helped, but he was bound to be better than the year before, that much is obvious. Just for the sheer experience, if nothing else.

How about from his rookie to sophomore year when he went from 10-12.5? 1.9 more rebounds isn't all that drastic as you made it out to be.[/QUOTE]


As a rookie Howard was still skinny and not playing as many minutes.

In his third year he averaged 12.3 rebounds per game. Why no improvement from his second year?

[QUOTE=andgar923][B][COLOR="Red"]Zo is better, end of story[/COLOR][/B].

[B]Only reason Howard's numbers are the way they are, is because he goes up against nobodies and today's big men are all to busy trying to be small forwards instead of playing the post.[/B]

[COLOR="Blue"]Most of Howard's game consists of he using his size and athleticism.[/COLOR] And there isn't that many big men today anyway.

Like somebody mentioned, Zo was a leader and he'd rip your throat out if he had too. Meanwhile Howard would just smile.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=LAClipsFan33][B]Howard's mental toughness is questionable.[/B] I think if he went head to head with Mourning he'd get intimidated. When Zo knew he was in your head he'd rip your heart out and eat it in front of you. [COLOR="Red"]I don't think Dwight would ever want this matchup.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Retired ZO is still emotional. :lol (in 2009)
[img]http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/Alonzo%20Mourning/VS/d052874a.gif[/img]


[QUOTE=zORi]Stop being a homer and if you don't like it don't post here. Simple.

Also, Mourning was barely (if at all) top 5 C in that time.

Olajuwon
Robinson
Shaq
Ewing
Dikembe
Mourning[/QUOTE]

Dikembe's defense was great but not the same level as rest of all.
(I think you might not watch 90's C Players game.)

[QUOTE=MasterDurant24]Deke was not better than Zo.[/QUOTE]
+1

[QUOTE=joyner82]Dikembe wasn't better than Mourning and Ewing wasn't much better.[/QUOTE]
+1

- ZO's opponent were Olajuwon, Ewing, D-Rob, SHAQ
and nice C Players like Mutombo, Rik Smits , Vlade Divac, Kevin Willis(C/F tho) etc. etc.

dh12 's opponent ? season-outed Yao and ?
(The weakest C Players era.)



- ZO 's front court partner were Larry Johnson(Hornets) and P.J. Brown(heat).

But ZO's stat was still great.

DH12 has no front court partner.(Actually Rashard Lewis is not PF.)



And ZO had never been struggled against poor opponent not like dh12.

[img]http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/Dwight%20Howard/--2.jpg[/img]

This is not just once.

Because dh12 has been stopped by (only 2009-10 season)

1) Really OLD SHAQ
[img]http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/Shaquille%20Oneal/5%20Cleveland%20Cavaliers/NBA09-10OrlandoMagicvsClevelandCava.jpg[/img]

2) non prime time Jermaine O'neal

3) OLD Ben Wallace

4) (partly) Samuel Dalembert

5) Kendrick Perkins

6) Andrew Bynum

7) Roy Hibbert

8) Charlotte Bobcats C Players

and if there were Yao, Yao could stop dh12.


Furthermore ZO didn't need to elbow not like dh12.

[COLOR="Blue"]I always think dh12 is one of dominant current player but he is not all time greatest level.[/COLOR]



This is ZO in his rookie season. dh12 couldn't play like this at the same age.
[img]http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/Alonzo%20Mourning/rookiealonzomourninghitsthebuzzerbe.gif[/img]




As NBA history, all the greatest C Players have been born to be the greatest C Players not imporoved.

[QUOTE=nbacardDOTnet]Retired ZO is still emotional. :lol (in 2009)
[img]http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/Alonzo%20Mourning/VS/d052874a.gif[/img]




Dikembe's defense was great but not the same level as rest of all.
(I think you might not watch 90's C Players game.)


+1


+1

- ZO's opponent were Olajuwon, Ewing, D-Rob, SHAQ
and nice C Players like Mutombo, Rik Smits , Vlade Divac, Kevin Willis(C/F tho) etc. etc.

dh12 's opponent ? season-outed Yao and ?
(The weakest C Players era.)



- ZO 's front court partner were Larry Johnson(Hornets) and P.J. Brown(heat).

But ZO's stat was still great.

DH12 has no front court partner.(Actually Rashard Lewis is not PF.)



And ZO had never been struggled against poor opponent not like dh12.

[img]http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/Dwight%20Howard/--2.jpg[/img]

This is not just once.

Because dh12 has been stopped by (only 2009-10 season)

1) Really OLD SHAQ
[img]http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/Shaquille%20Oneal/5%20Cleveland%20Cavaliers/NBA09-10OrlandoMagicvsClevelandCava.jpg[/img]

2) non prime time Jermaine O'neal

3) OLD Ben Wallace

4) (partly) Samuel Dalembert

5) Kendrick Perkins

6) Andrew Bynum

7) Roy Hibbert

8) Charlotte Bobcats C Players

and if there were Yao, Yao could stop dh12.


Furthermore ZO didn't need to elbow not like dh12.

[COLOR="Blue"]I always think dh12 is one of dominant current player but he is not all time greatest level.[/COLOR]



This is ZO in his rookie season. dh12 couldn't play like this at the same age.
[img]http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/Alonzo%20Mourning/rookiealonzomourninghitsthebuzzerbe.gif[/img]




As NBA history, all the greatest C Players have been born to be the greatest C Players not imporoved.[/QUOTE]

1 bad game against those centers is not "being stopped" by them, he also regularly outperforms them and wins the overall head-to-head matchups against them for the season. Stop nit picking. I'll bring up the stats if you want, but this would only hurt your argument.

LOL @ being stopped by Ben Wallace, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Also, one buzzer beater does not a great player make. You act like that was some brilliant play, it was a shot at the top of the key. Even the most basic NBA player could have hit that.

Also, you're [I]still[/I] running around with that picture? Really? Let it go man, seriously.

Also, Zo had his fair share of hard hits and elbows as well, he's also had a bad series or two. I think [I]you[/I] didn't watch 90's era players.

I wont even comment on the "As NBA history, all the greatest C Players have been born to be the greatest C Players not imporoved.", that is easily the most ridiculous thing I have heard today (which includes a threat to a super groupie).

Alonzo Mourning was a bad muthaphucka. I can't say the same about Howard who has that "hey! nice to meet you" mentality. Zo would feast on today's competition. He was getting 20/10/3 on routine in a league that was ran by bigs and .... and that black SG that played for DA BULLS. That era was much more physical and intense than the league Howard plays in. When Howard can't get deep position down low, he can't score. It's why he struggles against Boston since they play great help defense (hence forcing turnovers) and Perkins denies deep position down low. He hasn't mastered anything either besides the dropstep. Can't hit jumphooks consistently. Dude has bricks for hands and makes bad decisions with the ball.

Zo had a much more aggressive, assertive mentality where he'd demand the ball and force his team to feed him down low. It's why he clashed with LJ and ended up getting traded. I can't think of anything Howard does better than Zo save for pick and roll defense (due to Howard's edge in athleticism) and rebounding and remember that Zo was rebounding next to LJ, Parish, PJ Brown, Gattison, Owens, Kurt Thomas etc. Howard plays with undersized, uncoventional fowards that can't rebound worth a lick. People are impressed with Howard's shot blocking but Zo's anticipation, timing and will to contest shots was much superior than his. Guy went for everything possible which did hurt his team on a few occasions (gambling isn't always the greatest) but it also set fear in the minds of guys who were looking to penetrate. On offense, Zo wasn't perfect and that's why he was a notch below than Dream, Shaq, Admiral and Pat but he was much superior than Howard. Dwight Howard in the 90s wouldn't be much better than Kevin Willis who was never considered an elite player.

The problem with today's younger fan, is they eat, sh*t, and breath "stats"...


STATS DO NOT MEAN D*CK.



Having seen all of Zo's career, and considering the big men Zo had to go up against....its EASY to say that Alonzo was a far superior center.



Ive watched Dwight struggle against MOST other centers with any amount of size. Now, Howard is still young, and has a lot of room for improvement, but as it stands now.....the fact that he does struggle so much against other centers with any amount of size is a telling fact to me.

[QUOTE=DatWasNashty]Alonzo Mourning was a bad muthaphucka. I can't say the same about Howard who has that "hey! nice to meet you" mentality. Zo would feast on today's competition. He was getting 20/10/3 on routine in a league that was ran by bigs and .... and that black SG that played for DA BULLS. That era was much more physical and intense than the league Howard plays in. When Howard can't get deep position down low, he can't score. It's why he struggles against Boston since they play great help defense (hence forcing turnovers) and Perkins denies deep position down low. He hasn't mastered anything either besides the dropstep. Can't hit jumphooks consistently. Dude has bricks for hands and makes bad decisions with the ball.

Zo had a much more aggressive, assertive mentality where he'd demand the ball and force his team to feed him down low. It's why he clashed with LJ and ended up getting traded. I can't think of anything Howard does better than Zo save for pick and roll defense (due to Howard's edge in athleticism) and rebounding and remember that Zo was rebounding next to LJ, Parish, PJ Brown, Gattison, Owens, Kurt Thomas etc. Howard plays with undersized, uncoventional fowards that can't rebound worth a lick. People are impressed with Howard's shot blocking but Zo's anticipation, timing and will to contest shots was much superior than his. Guy went for everything possible which did hurt his team on a few occasions (gambling isn't always the greatest) but it also set fear in the minds of guys who were looking to penetrate. On offense, Zo wasn't perfect and that's why he was a notch below than Dream, Shaq, Admiral and Pat but he was much superior than Howard. Dwight Howard in the 90s wouldn't be much better than Kevin Willis who was never considered an elite player.[/QUOTE]

Dwight has mastered that jump hook with both hands, it's obviously not 100% (no shot is), but he hits it more than he misses it.

If the NBA was allowed to be as physical as it was back then, Dwight would be able to play much more freely.

Zo had 4 20/10 seasons, Dwight has 2 already (although I'll definitely admit, Zo's competition was way harder).

Dwight does have a nice guy demeanor (sometimes, it seems like everyone is either calling him a nice guy or a dirty player, something not adding up?), but so does the rest of the NBA. That's just how times are nowadays.

Also, Dwight was averaging 12.3 before Rashard Lewis came in with the stretch 4 mentality.

[QUOTE=zORi]1 bad game against those centers is not "being stopped" by them, he also regularly outperforms them and wins the overall head-to-head matchups against them for the season. Stop nit picking. I'll bring up the stats if you want, but this would only hurt your argument.

LOL @ being stopped by Ben Wallace, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Also, one buzzer beater does not a great player make. You act like that was some brilliant play, it was a shot at the top of the key. Even the most basic NBA player could have hit that.

Also, you're [I]still[/I] running around with that picture? Really? Let it go man, seriously.

Also, Zo had his fair share of hard hits and elbows as well, he's also had a bad series or two. I think [I]you[/I] didn't watch 90's era players.

I wont even comment on the "As NBA history, all the greatest C Players have been born to be the greatest C Players not imporoved.", that is easily the most ridiculous thing I have heard today (which includes a threat to a super groupie).[/QUOTE]

LMAO It's not strange your comment.
You can't accept fact. Because you are a dh12 homer.



U don't know NBA history.

Do you think dh12 is the greatest level of Bill, Wilt, Kareem kinds ? :roll:

come on



I don't deny ZO and the others(90's C Players) had elbowed.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iO4l98K-1o[/url]

But they hadn't elbowed much like throuth entire series.

What do you think about this ?

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSgawbtKtzM[/url]



Yah One buzzer doesn't mean he is beeter than dh12.

But you can't see anything ? :lol
(Because you are dh12 homer)

For example, you can see ZO's shooting range is longer,longer and longer than dh12.

I didn't want to post these pics but I have to.(because of dh12 's homer)

You can't accept real world so I would let you know real world.

This is your all time greatest level dh12 :roll:


VS Yao
[img]http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/1%20Houston%20Rockets/Yao%20Ming/VS%20dwight%20howard/reasonwhydwighthowardcantbeoneof-2.gif[/img]

VS Bynum

Bynum blocks Dwight Howard Twice within 2 Min
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3n6jVxJ-rY[/url]

[img]http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20Situation/Revenge/AndrewBynumblocksdwighthoward100307.gif[/img]

VS Big Ben
[img]http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/1%20Houston%20Rockets/Yao%20Ming/VS%20dwight%20howard/-.gif[/img]

VS Roy Hibbert
[img]http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/1%20Indiana%20Pacers/Roy%20Hibbert/100106dh12.gif[/img]


VS Gerald Wallace
[img]http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/1%20Charlotte%20Bobcats/Gerald%20Wallace/100421GeraldWallaceblocksDwightHowa.gif[/img]

fake superman (aka Elbow Man) vs Real SUPERMAN
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIZYl32K9Os[/url]

ZO VS dh12

[img]http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/Alonzo%20Mourning/z%20Block%20Party/dwight%20howard/alonzomourningdestroysdwighthoward.gif[/img]

[img]http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/Alonzo%20Mourning/z%20Block%20Party/dwight%20howard/alonzomourningrejectsdwighthoward.gif[/img]

Zo had better post moves and he can shoot the mid. And was a great defender. I'm actually shocked that Howard isn't better or equal than Mourning in bpg. I could've sworn he had as many as Mourning.

Howard is better at finishing the ball at the rim. He is almost like Shaq in that aspect. And he is a better rebounder. Howard still has room to grow.

Mourning did face against better competition of front liners in his day, but I think Howard is going to have a more successful career and has more potential than Mourning. But he has to achieve that potential and work harder.

[QUOTE=nbacardDOTnet]LMAO It's not strange your comment.
You can't accept fact. Because you are a dh12 homer.



U don't know NBA history.

Do you think dh12 is the greatest level of Bill, Wilt, Kareem kinds ? :roll:

come on



I don't deny ZO and the others(90's C Players) had elbowed.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iO4l98K-1o[/url]

But they hadn't elbowed much like throuth entire series.

What do you think about this ?

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSgawbtKtzM[/url]



Yah One buzzer doesn't mean he is beeter than dh12.

But you can't see anything ? :lol
(Because you are dh12 homer)

For example, you can see ZO's shooting range is longer,longer and longer than dh12.

I didn't want to post these pics but I have to.(because of dh12 's homer)

You can't accept real world so I would let you know real world.

This is your all time greatest level dh12 :roll:


VS Yao
[img]http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/1%20Houston%20Rockets/Yao%20Ming/VS%20dwight%20howard/reasonwhydwighthowardcantbeoneof-2.gif[/img]

VS Bynum

Bynum blocks Dwight Howard Twice within 2 Min
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3n6jVxJ-rY[/url]

[img]http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20Situation/Revenge/AndrewBynumblocksdwighthoward100307.gif[/img]

VS Big Ben
[img]http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/1%20Houston%20Rockets/Yao%20Ming/VS%20dwight%20howard/-.gif[/img]

VS Roy Hibbert
[img]http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/1%20Indiana%20Pacers/Roy%20Hibbert/100106dh12.gif[/img]




ZO VS dh12

[/QUOTE]


First off, making a bunch of gifs of Dwight getting his shot blocked doesn't mean he is worse than those guys. Anyone can do that about anyone, you're really not helping your point.

I guess Zo is worse than Vince carter?
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcU66xdeGck[/url]

Vs. Grant Hill
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otYKIMXU2rs[/url]

Vs. Carmelo, Mason, Josh Smith? Etc..
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otYKIMXU2rs[/url]

See how easy that was? Stop with your useless gifs, you're not impressing anyone. I could easily find a video of Dwight dominating those same players as well.


Y'know, I always thought you were a Dwight hater because of that picture that you constantly pull out, but now that I see that plethora of gifs that you keep, that's all the proof I need. Find a new hobby, man.

Also, did I say Dwight was a top 10 Center? I just said that Prime Zo was better! But this notion that Dwight will never be able to approach him and that he's weak and all that is ridiculous. Far from a homer, buddy.

Also, the thing is, yeah Zo did elbow throughout an entire series, buddy. Let's not forget all the dirty stuff Garnett did against Dwight, some of which are in that very video you posted! You're destroying your own argument!

Name one player who hasn't had their shot blocked by a smaller man before?

I'll wait...

mourning

bladers = 12, so he didnt watvh live mourning

Right now I still take a prime Alonzo Mourning. Mainly because of his mentality (like many have already pointed out) and his post moves when compared to Dwight`s (although Mourning was not Hakeem or nearly him but compared to Howard he was better at the offensive end).

If people take in count regular season stats and performances, yes, they are very equal, but right now, Howard`s style of play is predictable at times and easier to guard in comparison with all time centers. I mean, Howard struggles a lot against a good team defense (2009 lakers and 2010 celtics) have proven this, even the Bobcats pulled something interesting in the first matches of the first round series this year. Make him struggle to gain the deep position, take him further from the basket, make him do forced shots, long jumping hooks...etc, thats when Howard struggles. If you allow Howard to gain the deep position your lost (he is probably better than Alonzo in that regard), his power and dunking hability and finishing hability when close is too much to handle.

Defensively I see them pretty equal, Mourning might have the edge on blocks but Howard is the slightly better rebounder (specially defensive), has more mobility for a big man (kind of Bill Russell type) and if im not wrong, he averages more steals.

So what is Howard lacking right now in comparison to all time great centers? a winning mentality, a fierce winning mentality first of all. He has to take that lame smile out of his face sometimes, and start to be a badass. There isnt more explanation needed really, simple as that. Second, he needs to improve his passing skills, with the amount of double teams he gets and the good quality spot up 3pt shooters the Magic have, he could do even more damage. Although I admit he has improved in the passing area since he entered the league. And third, as I pointed out above, needs to develop a bit more of range in his game and some more variety of post moves, the way he plays at the offensive end is still very predictable to guard when the important stage of the season comes.


Maybe in the future im going with Dwight, but of what ive seen right now, its Alonzo Mourning for me.

first of all mourning's peak was '99, and second of all dwight howard in '09 was easily better