Wade or Iverson?

[QUOTE=colorz]Iverson is really one of the hardest players to rank. It seems like you either think Iverson is an overrated chucker or one of the best scorers to ever play. Everyone's opinion is so different about him that it's just impossible to rank him.

They're are so many kids on this board that think AI was just a chucker though. Most people that say Iverson was no where one Wade's level never saw him play at his peak. I'm not saying he's better but to say he wasn't on Wade's level is just looking at stats and FG% but never got to see him take over games.

Think about Derrick Rose, low FG% but LEADS his team to victory. [B]People now think that Rose is definitely on Wade's level or maybe even better.[/B] FG% doesn't tell the whole story about how good a player is.[/QUOTE]

And they are dead wrong about that. No FG% doesn't tell the whole story about a player-- there's also other aspects of efficiency to consider plus defense, rebounding etc-- all areas in which Wade blows Iverson and Rose out of the water.

And, in case it somehow has somehow escaped you-- Wade has shown the ability to take over games every bit as well or better as Iverson on offense-- better actually, when you consider Wade can also take over as a playmaker--and Rose has not yet shown the ability to take over on the same plane as Wade or Iverson as a scorer.

And unlike Iverson or Rose, Wade can take over games on both ends of the court.

[QUOTE=D.J.]
Iverson is a system player. Wade will dominate no matter who is on the team and no matter how good they are.[/QUOTE]
This just isn't true ...

With Carmelo Anthony

2006 - 2007 (50 games)

25 ppg, 7 apg, 3 rpg, FG 45%

2007 - 2008 (82 games)

26 ppg, 7 apg, 3 rpg, FG 46%

That's a system player?

And to be fair ... when he was winning scoring titles left and right as a 5'11 SG in the NBA ... he was still playing in the tough, physical defensive era.

That all changed in 2005 / 2006 -ish ... but you get the point.

And that's no knock on my boy Wade, cause he's right there with him as it stands right now. But the defense Wade faces aren't near as physical as they were pre 2005.

Iverson mashed on those defenses. See how his FG% was alot more comprable to Rose, Kobe, Carter, McGrady, Wade in 2006, 2007, and 2008 AT THE TWIGHLIGHT of his career? It's a) because of the rule changes and b) because he finally was playing with a capable scorer beside him for once.

Lets us also not forget that in 2003 and 2004, on Team USA ... surrounded by top tier talent, and even though the USA committee was reluctant to put him on the team because the baggage he carried and what he represented with his looks ... Iverson meshed with all-stars in a competitive setting ... AND WAS THE BEST PLAYER ON THE USA TEAM BOTH YEARS.

Yes, he was the best and most consistent player on the 2004 Olympic Team ... which had everyone's favorite overrated PF, Tim Duncan ... who absolutely blew in the Olympics.

[QUOTE=jrong]And unlike Iverson or Rose, [B]Wade can take over games on both ends of the court[/B].[/QUOTE]

When has he? Sometimes I need my memories refreshed.

[QUOTE=jrong]And they are dead wrong about that. No FG% doesn't tell the whole story about a player-- there's also other aspects of efficiency to consider plus defense, rebounding etc-- all areas in which Wade blows Iverson and Rose out of the water.

And, in case it somehow has somehow escaped you-- Wade has shown the ability to take over games every bit as well or better as Iverson on offense-- better actually, when you consider Wade can also take over as a playmaker--and Rose has not yet shown the ability to take over on the same plane as Wade or Iverson as a scorer.

And unlike Iverson or Rose, Wade can take over games on both ends of the court.[/QUOTE]

Wade is superior defensively, but Iverson wasn't as bad as most people say. It's not like guys would pour 20+ on him every night. He was average in his prime. I'm not saying Iverson is a good defender, but he's not atrocious. You also can't expect a 6 foot shooting guard to grab a lot of rebounds.

You also have to look at the defense that was played back in Iverson's prime. You can't even touch a guy going to the basket without getting a foul called. He averaged 30+ points in an era where defense was much tougher.

[QUOTE=donald_trump]wade is better at getting to the ring.[/QUOTE]

Arguable, but I would definitely side with AI, his first steps were just otherwordly, and there wasn't a defender he couldn't easily blow by in his prime.

[QUOTE]better from midrange.[/QUOTE]

Completely false, this makes me think you've never watched IVerson.

[QUOTE]equal from 3[/QUOTE]

Um, no.


[QUOTE]better in the post.[/QUOTE]

Agreed.


[QUOTE]and better off the catch and shoot.[/QUOTE]

Once again, no. Iverson is better at shooting than Wade, anybody who isn't biased will tell you that

[/QUOTE]what makes iverson the better scorer? id love to hear the reasons for the people claiming so.[/QUOTE]

Better shooter from everywhere, better at penetrating the lane, makes impossible shots looks easy, can take over games when it matters most, and can do all of these things with less help from his teamates.

AI"s playoff numbers say it all, 30 ppg, 2nd all time behind who? You guessed it, so the people who say it's crazy to say AI's one of the best scorers since Jordan, let me tell you this: AI is easily on e of the best scorers since Jordan. Now, Wade is easily a better defender, and has a better attitude, but if you're asking me who I would take as a player, I would have to give the edge to AI.

wade and it is even not close
iverson scored lots of points but he also shoot too many times with poor field goal percentage
wade is just way better all around player than iverson

It's clear there are a bunch of tards and advanced stat whores in here that never truly watched Iverson. So tell me how this sits for you. The mighty Wade led his team to a 15-67 record the year after winning the championship. That's one of the worst regular season finishes of all time. Sure he was injured for about 30 games but nonetheless he didn't carry sh**. Iverson had a team of defensive minded players centered around him that were no slouches for sure but Iverson flat out carried the Sixers a lot of times. The worst record Iverson ever mustered was 22 wins in his rookie season. Which jumped to 31 the next and 50 the one after that one.

Those saying Iverson failed to win a ring while D Wade won one listen up. Wade... put up one of the best finals performances of all time. Nobody can take that away from him. Didn't he averaged like 17 free throws a game in that series though? It was a VERY controversial series and looked borderline rigged at times.

Iverson faced the Laker dynasty at their Kobe and Shaq prime and to educate those who were too young to watch it... the Lakers had swept the playoffs until that point. Iverson flat out crushed Kobe, Tyrone Lou and Fisher. Anyone who tried to guard Iverson. Most experts and even Lakers players were expecting and claiming a sweep. Want to know what really happened?

Lakers open the game on a 21-9 run and Iverson responds by scoring 30 first half points. In the 3rd quarter Iverson lead the Sixers to a 15 point lead. The Lakers fight back with a superb 4th quarter dominated by Shaq who had 18 in the quarter. Iverson takes over in the last 2 minutes of overtime and scores 7 points to give the Sixers a game one victory. True warrior spirit. The Lakers were a monster crushing anyone in their path and little Allen Iverson who played against near prime Kobe and prime Shaq.. willed the Sixers.

The Lakers won the next 4 to win the series in 5 but I doubt any team in the history of the league besides maybe Jordan's Bulls could have beaten the Kobe and Shaq Lakers.

It's funny that in all these threads.. the only 2 remotely logical posters that stood out were GOBB and Rodman (sorry if I missed anyone). To see about 30 other morons have no clue what they are talking about is sad. It's the new generation of fans from the last 5 years. Never watch a player or even study tape/footage... go look up advanced stats on Basketball Reference.. and make sweeping statements or present things as law.

Reality is... there is a use for volume scorers. I will post the breakdown if you want but recently there was a huge advanced stats scoring breakdown that proved that some teams NEED a volume scorer more than an efficient one. They swapped Iverson for current Durant.. and the Sixers were projected for 10-15 less wins. Not everything is black and white.

Btw those saying Wade is a better shooter from anywhere on the floor are full of sh**. Wade and Lebron shoot a higher percentage than Kobe from midrange and almost equal outside but who would really say they have a better shooting touch outside than Kobe?? Same concept. Numbers don't tell a full story. Iverson's shot selection was poor but Iverson was a pretty top notch midrange shooter when he was open, something you definitely cannot say about Wade.

Iverson game 1 of the NBA finals in 01'. 48 points.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79WSHpMU894[/url]

Shaq: "Iverson is hands down the best pound for pound player of all time".

[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]Um no dude.. just no. I didn't say only Wade got the treatment. I'm saying this era in general.. is MUCH different than 2001. Refs call every fu**ing bump a foul now even in playoff games. Reckless or not.. Iverson played in a much rougher era. Just like Jordan played in the toughest era of all time it DOES make a difference in production obviously. Do you know how good of paint enforcers/defenders prime Shaq, Mutombo, Ben Wallace and Theo Ratliff were? Imagine 4-5 Dwight Howard caliber bigs in the league that are allowed to be more physical with you?[/QUOTE]

After the rule changes, with an out of his prime Iverson was still putting up 26/7 playing alongside Melo. I shudder to think what Iverson would do if he was in his prime in this soft era :eek:

[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]It's clear there are a bunch of tards and advanced stat whores in here that never truly watched Iverson. So tell me how this sits for you. The mighty Wade led his team to a 15-67 record the year after winning the championship. That's one of the worst regular season finishes of all time. Sure he was injured for about 30 games but nonetheless he didn't carry sh**. Iverson had a team of defensive minded players centered around him that were no slouches for sure but Iverson flat out carried the Sixers a lot of times. The worst record Iverson ever mustered was 22 wins in his rookie season. Which jumped to 31 the next and 50 the one after that one.

Those saying Iverson failed to win a ring while D Wade won one listen up. Wade... put up one of the best finals performances of all time. Nobody can take that away from him. Didn't he averaged like 17 free throws a game in that series though? It was a VERY controversial series and looked borderline rigged at times.

Iverson faced the Laker dynasty at their Kobe and Shaq prime and to educate those who were too young to watch it... the Lakers had swept the playoffs until that point. Iverson flat out crushed Kobe, Tyrone Lou and Fisher. Anyone who tried to guard Iverson. Most experts and even Lakers players were expecting and claiming a sweep. Want to know what really happened?

Lakers open the game on a 21-9 run and Iverson responds by scoring 30 first half points. In the 3rd quarter Iverson lead the Sixers to a 15 point lead. The Lakers fight back with a superb 4th quarter dominated by Shaq who had 18 in the quarter. Iverson takes over in the last 2 minutes of overtime and scores 7 points to give the Sixers a game one victory. True warrior spirit. The Lakers were a monster crushing anyone in their path and little Allen Iverson who played against near prime Kobe and prime Shaq.. willed the Sixers.

The Lakers won the next 4 to win the series in 5 but I doubt any team in the history of the league besides maybe Jordan's Bulls could have beaten the Kobe and Shaq Lakers.

It's funny that in all these threads.. the only 2 remotely logical posters that stood out were GOBB and Rodman (sorry if I missed anyone). To see about 30 other morons have no clue what they are talking about is sad. It's the new generation of fans from the last 5 years. Never watch a player or even study tape/footage... go look up advanced stats on Basketball Reference.. and make sweeping statements or present things as law.

Reality is... there is a use for volume scorers. I will post the breakdown if you want but recently there was a huge advanced stats scoring breakdown that proved that some teams NEED a volume scorer more than an efficient one. They swapped Iverson for current Durant.. and the Sixers were projected for 10-15 less wins. Not everything is black and white.[/QUOTE]

Kind of funny that the only posters you call "remotely logical" are the ones who agree with you, and the rest of us are morons. And if you're going to make anti-Wade arguments, at least put a little effort into them.

Wade played the entire 08 season in need of two surgeries. He didn't dunk that year-- even on breakaways, he would do finger-rolls. He was widely advised to shut down for the season by December when it became clear that the Heat were not going to the playoffs, but he continued to play because he felt an obligation to his teammates and the fans. And that is also the only year in his career that he missed the playoffs.

[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]It's clear there are a bunch of tards and advanced stat whores in here that never truly watched Iverson. So tell me how this sits for you. The mighty Wade led his team to a 15-67 record the year after winning the championship. That's one of the worst regular season finishes of all time. Sure he was injured for about 30 games but nonetheless he didn't carry sh**. Iverson had a team of defensive minded players centered around him that were no slouches for sure but Iverson flat out carried the Sixers a lot of times. The worst record Iverson ever mustered was 22 wins in his rookie season. Which jumped to 31 the next and 50 the one after that one.

Those saying Iverson failed to win a ring while D Wade won one listen up. Wade... put up one of the best finals performances of all time. Nobody can take that away from him. Didn't he averaged like 17 free throws a game in that series though? It was a VERY controversial series and looked borderline rigged at times.

Iverson faced the Laker dynasty at their Kobe and Shaq prime and to educate those who were too young to watch it... the Lakers had swept the playoffs until that point. Iverson flat out crushed Kobe, Tyrone Lou and Fisher. Anyone who tried to guard Iverson. Most experts and even Lakers players were expecting and claiming a sweep. Want to know what really happened?

Lakers open the game on a 21-9 run and Iverson responds by scoring 30 first half points. In the 3rd quarter Iverson lead the Sixers to a 15 point lead. The Lakers fight back with a superb 4th quarter dominated by Shaq who had 18 in the quarter. Iverson takes over in the last 2 minutes of overtime and scores 7 points to give the Sixers a game one victory. True warrior spirit. The Lakers were a monster crushing anyone in their path and little Allen Iverson who played against near prime Kobe and prime Shaq.. willed the Sixers.

The Lakers won the next 4 to win the series in 5 but I doubt any team in the history of the league besides maybe Jordan's Bulls could have beaten the Kobe and Shaq Lakers.

It's funny that in all these threads.. the only 2 remotely logical posters that stood out were GOBB and Rodman (sorry if I missed anyone). To see about 30 other morons have no clue what they are talking about is sad. It's the new generation of fans from the last 5 years. Never watch a player or even study tape/footage... go look up advanced stats on Basketball Reference.. and make sweeping statements or present things as law.

Reality is... there is a use for volume scorers. I will post the breakdown if you want but recently there was a huge advanced stats scoring breakdown that proved that some teams NEED a volume scorer more than an efficient one. They swapped Iverson for current Durant.. and the Sixers were projected for 10-15 less wins. Not everything is black and white.[/QUOTE]

No one is wrong to say Wade is better than Iverson or Iverson is better than Wade. It's all opinion. Some people have made some good points for both players and just because someone thinks the opposite doesn't mean they're morons.

[QUOTE=Mach_3]After the rule changes, with an out of his prime Iverson was still putting up 26/7 playing alongside Melo. I shudder to think what Iverson would do if he was in his prime in this soft era :eek:[/QUOTE]

:cheers:

[QUOTE=colorz]No one is wrong to say Wade is better than Iverson or Iverson is better than Wade. It's all opinion. Some people have made some good points for both players and just because someone thinks the opposite doesn't mean they're morons.[/QUOTE]

I suppose ignorant would be more appropriate than morons. I understand different opinions but anyone that calls AI overrated or says Wade is light years better DID NOT watch prime Iverson. I'm 100 percent sure of that. As many others have said Wade is a lot like Iverson. Version 2.0 isn't always better in every way than the original. I have no problem with people saying Wade. What I do have a problem with is people slandering Iverson with things like "He's overrated".. "He's a glorified chucker" when it's clear as day they NEVER watched Iverson.

It pisses me off that so many pseudo fans of the NBA run around on these forums. Guys that enjoy an occasional debate or love advanced stats but don't truly appreciate, study or respect this amazing, historic sport.

[QUOTE=Mach_3]After the rule changes, with an out of his prime Iverson was still putting up 26/7 playing alongside Melo. I shudder to think what Iverson would do if he was in his prime in this soft era :eek:[/QUOTE]

Exactly. I have 0 doubt in my mind that prime Iverson now in this touch foul era.. would average 35-40 ppg at least for one season. I also know for a fact all the regular fouls he took from guys like Shaq putting him on his ass would be called flagrants now.