Chris Mullin vs Larry Bird $100 bucks a shot

[QUOTE=catch24]I don't. Although, I may consider the source. A kid who props up his favorite player any chance he gets is irrelevant to me (look how many times you've been called an idiot this thread; use your head) :oldlol: at taking Scottie Pippen over one of the greatest players ever in an NBA draft. There's no way anyone is gonna agree with that, let alone a GM. The only exception is you because you're a zealot.
[B]I don't make decisions because of what someone may think. I was aked a question and I answered it according to what I believe in. That's what men do. Not answer how I think some people on the internet would answer. Maybe your the kid. [/B]


Team competition isn't adjusting an entire ERA's pace for individual players numbers whilst estimating what said players numbers would be.
[B]I didn't do this. I adjusted pippens stats based on if he played in a different era. Not the other way around. What I did is nothing new. Its not an anomoly. And its about as fair as you can get when trying to compare across eras. Cuz we honestly don't know.[/B]

How can you be this clueless? Context is thrown out the window when Pippen had keys to the porsche and refused to comeback in during a pivotal playoff game because a play wasn't drawn up for him. But yeah, Magic is the pouter. Good one :oldlol:
[B]He didn't have the keys to the porche. Thats why he was pissed. He was paying the car note each month. But he couldn't drive it. And for the life of me ill never understand why he gets beat up for that one play. Don't forget, that HE WANTED THE SHOT. HE WANTED THE OPPORTUNITY. And he deserved that chance. Was he wrong? Sure. But I understand where he was comming from.[/B]

And again, there's a bit of a difference saying Bird/Mullin had similar skillsets and there not being a sigincant difference in their offense.[/QUOTE]
There's not a significant difference in their offense. Bird played in an uptempo era and mullin played in an uptempo offense.

[quote]I don't make decisions because of what someone may think. I was aked a question and I answered it according to what I believe in. That's what men do. Not answer how I think some people on the internet would answer. Maybe your the kid.[/quote]

Everyone here knows you rationalize and draw up excuses for your favorite player and team(s). Don't get it twisted, a grown ass man would own up to his mistakes. You've yet to do so. Instead you completely hijack the thread because you're stupid ass finally realizes your first post had zero merit. Bird leads Mullin in every major statistical category offensively. Comfortably I might add.

It doesn't matter what you "believe in". No one sane agrees with you. Pippen was a sidekick. You'd build around a second option instead of one of the top 5-7 players all-time. Think about it for a second. Take a few seconds if you need to.

It's almost as if you're purposely going against the grain because you want attention. Grow up and open up your mind. Learn to put aside your personal bias and feelings in debates. Just because your favorite player doesn't measure up to some of his peers doesn't make his impact any less than what it was. Remember that.

[quote]
I didn't do this. I adjusted pippens stats based on if he played in a different era. Not the other way around. What I did is nothing new. Its not an anomoly. And its about as fair as you can get when trying to compare across eras. Cuz we honestly don't know[/quote]

You can't adjust Pippen's stats, that's the point. You don't know if he could lead a team consistently. He didn't do it in Chicago so what makes you think he could do it by himself against the stacked teams of the 80's without Jordan's guidance or Phil's coaching? Again stop straying away from the original topic and admit you were DEAD wrong saying there wasn't a difference in Mullin and Bird's offense.

[quote]He didn't have the keys to the porche. Thats why he was pissed. He was paying the car note each month.[/quote]

He "led" the team for an entire season. Just because he didn't get the last shot in a playoff game doesn't give him the right to sit on the bench and refuse to come back in. Pippen quit on his team. That's what happened.

[QUOTE=97 bulls]There's not a significant difference in their offense. Bird played in an uptempo era and mullin played in an uptempo offense.[/QUOTE]

Wrong again, moron. Bird was a better passer, ran the Boston offense, was a much better offensive rebounder, and scorer adjusting for volume.

[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mullich01.html[/url]
[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/birdla01.html[/url]

In 1985, arguably one of Bird's best seasons, he averaged 29/10/7 and his teams pace per game was 101.6 (13 of 23 in the league); In 1991, arguably one of Mullin's best seasons, he averaged 26/5/4 and his teams pace per game was 103.6 (2nd in the league). So Mullin played in an uptempo offense, second in the league, averaging more possessions than Bird, yet couldn't put up the numbers Bird did. I thought there was no significant difference? Interesting. Its also worth noting there really wasn't much of a difference in defenses during the mid-late 80's and early 90's. Average pace per game was around 100 with teams like the Warriors getting just as many possessions as teams of the 80's.

Shit, their playoff numbers aren't even remotely close making the comparison look even more of a joke than it already is.

[QUOTE=catch24]Everyone here knows you rationalize and draw up excuses for your favorite player and team(s). Don't get it twisted, a grown ass man would own up to his mistakes. You've yet to do so. Instead you completely hijack the thread because you're stupid ass finally realizes your first post had zero merit. Bird leads Mullin in every major statistical category offensively. Comfortably I might add.

It doesn't matter what you "believe in". No one sane agrees with you. Pippen was a sidekick. You'd build around a second option instead of one of the top 5-7 players all-time. Think about it for a second. Take a few seconds if you need to.

It's almost as if you're purposely going against the grain because you want attention. Grow up and open up your mind. Learn to put aside your personal bias and feelings in debates. Just because your favorite player doesn't measure up to some of his peers doesn't make his impact any less than what it was. Remember that.



You can't adjust Pippen's stats, that's the point. You don't know if he could lead a team consistently. He didn't do it in Chicago so what makes you think he could do it by himself against the stacked teams of the 80's without Jordan's guidance or Phil's coaching? Again stop straying away from the original topic and admit you were DEAD wrong saying there wasn't a difference in Mullin and Bird's offense.



He "led" the team for an entire season. Just because he didn't get the last shot in a playoff game doesn't give him the right to sit on the bench and refuse to come back in. Pippen quit on his team. That's what happened.



Wrong again, moron. Bird was a better passer, ran the Boston offense, was a much better offensive rebounder, and scorer adjusting for volume.

[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mullich01.html[/url]
[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/birdla01.html[/url]

In 1985, arguably one of Bird's best seasons, he averaged 29/10/7 and his teams pace per game was 101.6 (13 of 23 in the league); In 1991, arguably one of Mullin's best seasons, he averaged 26/5/4 and his teams pace per game was 103.6 (2nd in the league). So Mullin played in an uptempo offense, second in the league, averaging more possessions than Bird, yet couldn't put up the numbers Bird did. I thought there was no significant difference? Interesting. Its also worth noting there really wasn't much of a difference in defenses during the mid-late 80's and early 90's. Average pace per game was around 100 with teams like the Warriors getting just as many possessions as teams of the 80's.

Shit, their playoff numbers aren't even remotely close making the comparison look even more of a joke than it already is.[/QUOTE]

End Of Discussion.

Between 97bulls and Jacks3, it's difficult to tell which of them is a more unreasonable moron. Although, the eye sore factor of 97bulls posts are probably greater.

[QUOTE=TAC602]End Of Discussion.

Between 97bulls and Jacks3, it's difficult to tell which of them is a more unreasonable moron. Although, the eye sore factor of 97bulls posts are probably greater.[/QUOTE]

He thinks he can post garbage and not get called out on it. Come on, honestly, not one [I]single[/I] difference between Bird and Mullin's offensive game?

:wtf:

[QUOTE=catch24]Everyone here knows you rationalize and draw up excuses for your favorite player and team(s). Don't get it twisted, a grown ass man would own up to his mistakes. You've yet to do so. Instead you completely hijack the thread because you're stupid ass finally realizes his first post in this thread had zero merit. Bird leads Mullin in every major statistical category offensively. Comfortably I might add.
[B]Stop trying to validate you opinion by running behind someone else. When they want to chime in they will. That's what females do.[/B]

It doesn't matter what you "believe in". No one sane agrees with you. Pippen was a sidekick. You'd build around a second option instead of one of the top 5-7 players all-time. Think about it for a second. Take a few seconds if you need to.
[B]Sure it does. That's why its called my opinion. [/B]

It's almost as if you're purposely going against the grain because you want attention. Grow up and open up your mind. Learn to put aside your personal bias and feelings in debates. Just because your favorite player doesn't measure up to some of his peers doesn't make him any less of a player. Remember that.

[B[/B]

You can't adjust Pippen's stats, that's the point. You don't know if he could lead a team consistently. He didn't do it in Chicago so what makes you think he could do it by himself against the stacked teams of the 80's without Jordan's guidance or Phil's coaching? Again stop straying away from the original topic and admit you were DEAD wrong saying there wasn't a difference in Mullin and Bird's offense.
[B]if your talking about 94 what was he supposed to do? He had a bad series against the knicks. It happens. Its no more of an indication that he could lead a team to a championship that any other player. It was one year. And the bulls weren't supposed to beat the knicks. They overachieved that season. I remeber the remarks people made when jordan abruptly retired. I remember during the first 3pt people saying the bulls were jordan and a bunch of scrubs. I hoonestly thought they'd finish with about 45 wins at best. Funny thing is. If you compare the 94 bulls to some of laker teams kobe led pre championship, or wades teams, or just about any other, Pippen did more with less. The 95 bulls, who had minimal talent at best were on pace to win about 45 games before jordans return. [/B]

He "led" the team for an entire season. Just because he didn't get the last shot in a playoff game doesn't give him the right to sit on the bench and refuse to come back in. Pippen quit on his team. That's what happened.

[B]you get no argument out of me. It was a bad decision. But I respect the fact that he wanted the shot. That's all I'm saying.[/B]

Wrong again, moron. Bird was a better passer, ran the Boston offense, was a much better offensive rebounder, and scorer adjusting for volume.

[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mullich01.html[/url]
[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/birdla01.html[/url]

In 1985, arguably one of Bird's best seasons, he averaged 29/10/7 and his teams pace per game was 101.6 (13 of 23 in the league); In 1991, arguably one of Mullin's best seasons, he averaged 26/5/4 and his teams pace per game was 103.6 (2nd in the league). So Mullin played in an uptempo offense, second in the league, averaging more possessions than Bird, yet couldn't put up the numbers Bird did. I thought there was no significant difference? Interesting. Its also worth noting there really wasn't much of a difference in defenses during the mid-late 80's and early 90's. Average pace per game was around 100 with teams like the Warriors getting just as many possessions as teams of the 80's.

Shit, their playoff numbers aren't even remotely close making the comparison look even more of a joke than it already is.[/QUOTE]
Again, if you feel that bird was better, that's fine. I never said that notion was blasphemy or anything. I said I believed they're on par with each other.

[QUOTE=TAC602]End Of Discussion.

Between 97bulls and Jacks3, it's difficult to tell which of them is a more unreasonable moron. Although, the eye sore factor of 97bulls posts are probably greater.[/QUOTE]
Then tell me your opinion. Between mullin and bird, or pippen. Was larry bird lightyears better offensively than bird?

[quote]Stop trying to validate you opinion by running behind someone else. When they want to chime in they will. That's what females do.[/quote]

Quit being such a pansy and quote me properly. :oldlol: at hiding behind someone else. It just so happens NO ONE agrees with you. What more needs to be said? You're somewhere on an island by yourself away from scrutiny, hence why you're comfortable posting bullshit.

[quote]
Sure it does. That's why its called my opinion.[/quote]

An unjustified one. There was nothing better Pippen did besides play defense. Magic was damn near better at everything. Reality.

[quote]if your talking about 94 what was he supposed to do?[/quote]

Play better and not quit on his team.

[QUOTE=97 bulls]Again, if you feel that bird was better, that's fine. I never said that notion was blasphemy or anything. I said I believed they're on par with each other.[/QUOTE]

It's not what 'I feel', it's what it is. My opinions in this thread are backed with facts. Again, I don't spout half-assed opinions without some sort of evidence to back them up. You were spewing BS, got called out, and now have no rebuttal or leg to stand on. "[I]If you feel that Bird was better, that's fine[/I]"??? Really??? That's the best you got? What happened to pace and that "uptempo" crap you were regurgitating a few minutes ago?

[QUOTE=catch24]Quit being such a pansy and quote me properly. :oldlol: at hiding behind someone else. It just so happens NO ONE agrees with you. What more needs to be said? You're somewhere on an island by yourself away from scrutiny, hence why you're comfortable posting bullshit.
[B]you are hiding behind others like a girl. And id tell you the exact same thing in person. In fact, I live in los angeles. Whenever your ready, let me know and ill meet up with you and tell you whatever it is you wanna know.[/B]

An unjustified one. There was nothing better Pippen did besides play defense. Magic was damn near better at everything. Reality.
[B]actually, pippen was better than magic as far as championships too. [/B]

Play better and not quit on his team.
[B][/B]

It's not what 'I feel', it's what it is. My opinions in this thread are backed with facts. Again, I don't spout half-assed opinions without some sort of evidence to back them up. You were spewing BS, got called out, and now have no rebuttal or leg to stand on. "[I]If you feel that Bird was better, that's fine[/I]"??? Really??? That's the best you got? What happened to pace and that "uptempo" crap you were regurgitating a few minutes ago?[/QUOTE]
I told you that mullin played in a higher tempo offense but bird played in a higher tempo era. I told you mullin didn't dominate the ball like bird did. So I agree with you. But I just go deeper.

[QUOTE=97 bulls]I told you that mullin played in a higher tempo offense but bird played in a higher tempo era. I told you mullin didn't dominate the ball like bird did. So I agree with you. But I just go deeper.[/QUOTE]

He didn't dominate the ball like Bird did because he wasn't as good running an offense. If he was similar to a playmaker Bird was, he'd of handled the ball more with or without Hardaway.

[quote]
you are hiding behind others like a girl. And id tell you the exact same thing in person. In fact, I live in los angeles. Whenever your ready, let me know and ill meet up with you and tell you whatever it is you wanna know.[/quote]

No one is hiding. I've addressed your posts. Not only are you stupid but an e-thug as well.

Hilarious :oldlol:

You'd be looking at the ground talking to me face to face. Pipe down.

[quote]actually, pippen was better than magic as far as championships too.[/quote]

No, Michael Jordan was. Pippen was merely a sidekick/second option. His impact never exceeded what Magic brought to his teams.

[QUOTE=catch24]He didn't dominate the ball like Bird did because he wasn't as good running an offense. If he was similar to a playmaker Bird was, he'd of handled the ball more with or without Hardaway.

[B]No, the warriors had a great pg. Which meant mullins role was different from birds.[/B]

No one is hiding. I've addressed your posts. Not only are you stupid but an e-thug as well.

Hilarious :oldlol:
[B]I never said anything about you hiding. You implied that my I voice my opinions only over the internet. I have these debates all day at work. I have no problem telling you in person. We could even play some 21 or something.[/B]

You'd be looking at the ground talking to me face to face. Pipe down.
[B]But I'm the internet thug? Come on bro. I think your misunderstanding my invite. [/B]

No, Michael Jordan was. Pippen was merely a sidekick/second option. His impact never exceeded what Magic brought to his teams.[/QUOTE]
I remember in 91. Pippen impacted the hell outta magic. Bottom line, since you only respect what actually happened, you'd have to respect that head to head, pippen has a 1-0 advantage in the championship. And he played better than magic.

[quote]No, the warriors had a great pg. Which meant mullins role was different from birds.[/quote]

Just like the Celtics had great point guard/guard play from DJ and Danny Ainge. Again, if Mullin was so great the offense would have came through him, much like it did in Boston with Bird.

[quote]I never said anything about you hiding. You implied that my I voice my opinions only over the internet. I have these debates all day at work. I have no problem telling you in person. We could even play some 21 or something.[/quote]

Did you not just I'm hiding behind other people on this forum? I'm confused. This is getting f*cking stupid.

I'm alright with you but when you post utter garbage someone has to call you out on it. Please explain why there is no difference between Bird and Mullin offensively when the statistics (and production) throughout their careers say otherwise.

[quote]I remember in 91. Pippen impacted the hell outta magic. Bottom line, since you only respect what actually happened, you'd have to respect that head to head, pippen has a 1-0 advantage in the championship. And he played better than magic.[/quote]

Pippen was a fine player. An awesome all-time great. Jordan has a 1-0 advantage against Magic, not the other way around. Those two were the respective leaders of their squads. It's complete revisionist history to say stuff like Pippen has a 1-0 advantage over Magic, much less an out of prime Magic.

I respect that he put the locks on Magic certain points of that series, but that's about as far as it goes.

[QUOTE=catch24]Just like the Celtics had great point guard/guard play from DJ and Danny Ainge. Again, if Mullin was so great the offense would have came through him, much like it did in Boston with Bird.
[B]They weren't pgs in a traditional sense. Hardaway was. And hardaway was an amzing scorer. And what made it harder for mullin was that hardaway, richmond, and then later spreewell, handled the ball too. Parrish and mchale were bigs. Someone had to get them the ball. I doubt very seriously that bird would've had the ball in his hands as much as he did with hardaway and richmond on his team[/B]


Did you not just I'm hiding behind other people on this forum? I'm confused. This is getting f*cking stupid.

I'm alright with you but when you post utter garbage someone has to call you out on it. Please explain why there is no difference between Bird and Mullin offensively when the statistics (and production) throughout their careers say otherwise.
[B]I know you are. We just disagree on this topic. We may agree on another. It no biggie.[/B]


Pippen was a fine player. An awesome all-time great. Jordan has a 1-0 advantage against Magic, not the other way around. Those two were the respective leaders of their squads. It's complete revisionist history to say stuff like Pippen has a 1-0 advantage over Magic, much less an out of prime Magic.

I respect that he put the locks on Magic certain points of that series, but that's about as far as it goes.[/QUOTE]
You have no choice but to respect what pippen did in 91 vs the magic. And as you like to say, facts are facts, the bulls (with pippen) beat the lakers (with magic johnson). Thus when the two were on the court on the biggest stage playing each other, pippen came out on top. And convinceingly I might add

[QUOTE=97 bulls]They weren't pgs in a traditional sense. Hardaway was. And hardaway was an amzing scorer. And what made it harder for mullin was that hardaway, richmond, and then later spreewell, handled the ball too. Parrish and mchale were bigs. Someone had to get them the ball. I doubt very seriously that bird would've had the ball in his hands as much as he did with hardaway and richmond on his team.[/quote]

You're right, they weren't, which again, is part of the reason Bird ran Boston's offense most of the time. The other reason being HE was the offense. There's no way Mullin could replace what Bird did and still be as effective.

Offensively, yeah, you may have a point. They were close as far as their skillset (passing, exceptional shooting, scoring, and offensive rebounding), it's just the degree Bid did it in was more convincingly dominant.

[quote]You have no choice but to respect what pippen did in 91 vs the magic. And as you like to say, facts are facts, the bulls (with pippen) beat the lakers (with magic johnson). Thus when the two were on the court on the biggest stage playing each other, pippen came out on top. And convinceingly I might add[/QUOTE]

The Bulls lead by Jordan and Pippen beat the Lakers lead by Magic and Worthy. Right. Like I said, I just don't think it's fair to say [I]Pippen = 1-0 against Magic[/I] (like those two were the only superstars and/or leaders that series). It's a little disingenuous is all. And again, not to make any excuses or anything, it's what it is (lol), but one cannot deny LA were on their last legs (Worthy DNP'd two of the five games that series while Scott, who only missed the last game, had nagging injuries as well). It would have been much more interesting to see both teams at their peak go at it.

[QUOTE=catch24]You're right, they weren't, which again, is part of the reason Bird ran Boston's offense most of the time. The other reason was because HE was the offense. There's no way Mullin could replace what Bird did and still be as effective.

Offensively, yeah, you may have a point. They were close as far as their skillset (passing, exceptional shooting, scoring, and offensive rebounding), it's just the degree Bid did it in was more convincingly dominant.
[B]Its no fun when we agree catch. I like you much more when your being difficult[/B]

Did you not just I'm hiding behind other people on this forum? I'm confused. This is getting f*cking stupid.




The Bulls lead by Jordan and Pippen beat the Lakers lead by Magic and Worthy. Right. Like I said, I just don't think it's fair to say [I]Pippen = 1-0 against Magic[/I] (like those two were the only superstars and/or leaders that series). It's a little disingenuous is all. And again, not to make lame excuses, it's what it is (lol), one cannot deny LA were on their last legs (Worthy DNP'd two of the five games that series while Scott, who only missed the last game, had nagging injuries as well). It would have been much more interesting to see both teams at their peak go at it.[/QUOTE]
Your actually right catch. This is disingenuious. But its along the same lines as to why I feel the way I do about pippen. Its not like he had a great team or lost as the favorite. And he didn't play bad vs the knicks. He shot bad. But his overall game was great.

I hope you see the parallel.

[QUOTE=97 bulls]Your actually right catch. This is disingenuious. But its along the same lines as to why I feel the way I do about pippen. Its not like he had a great team or lost as the favorite. And he didn't play bad vs the knicks. He shot bad. But his overall game was great.

I hope you see the parallel.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I hear you. Much of that is why 'Scottie33Pippen' of Youtube (hitman2k) is around posting mixes and videos of Pipp.

Want my honest opinion? They had no business making the semifials, much less taking the Knicks of all teams to 7 games. That in-itself was an accomplishment. No Bulls fan by any means, but you gotta give credit where its due, and Pippen (who while I still think pulled a b*tch move when his team needed him most), did a stellar job being the glue that held that team together. Dude definitely held his own without Mike.

Seeing that you're a big fan of his, what season do you consider his best?