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I have a question for Jlauber.
How come you go with stats for Wilt in the Wilt vs Russell debate.. look to excuse Wilt for his not so good performances (in some seasons) with an edge in HOFers.. and not to do the same in the Wilt vs Kareem debates, where the latter has a statistical edge in their battles?
This is just a fair question. Why the double standard? After all, you respected the greats of the game, don't you?
[QUOTE=-23-]And in no way is Wilt in any discussion for GOAT.[/QUOTE]
Chamberlain was the greatest basketball player of all time. Nobody is even close.
Sorry but you never watched him or you'd never even think that.
Outside of Boston, the 1960s wasn't a fun time to be a hoops fan save for 1967.
All Russell all the time.
If this site was around, you'd have heard a lot of "Wake me up when Bill Russell doesn't win the title for once."
[QUOTE=PTB Fan]I have a question for Jlauber.
How come you go with stats for Wilt in the Wilt vs Russell debate.. look to excuse Wilt for his not so good performances (in some seasons) with an edge in HOFers.. and not to do the same in the Wilt vs Kareem debates, where the latter has a statistical edge in their battles?
This is just a fair question. Why the double standard? After all, you respected the greats of the game, don't you?[/QUOTE]
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Chamberlain had an edge in Hall of Famers????????????????????????????
Chamberlain's teammates AND HOW MANY SEASONS HE PLAYED WITH THEM:
Baylor 4
West 5
Greer 4
Cunningham 3 (anyone remember BC breaking his arm in the 68 playoffs?)
Arizin 3
Thurmond 2
Gola 3
Total: 24 seasons together.
Baylor? from the 69-70 season right through the end of his career in 71-72 he played 65 games. He never played a full season with Chamberlain.
And it's interesting that Chamberlain wrecked his knee in 69 and missed the season. And it's interesting that Baylor & West both missed the '71 playoffs.
**********************************************
Russell?
Russell's teammates AND HOW MANY SEASONS RUSSELL PLAYED WITH THEM:
Havlicek 7
Cousy 7
Sharman 5
Sam Jones 12
Lovellette played two partial seasons with Russell, and limited minutes so we won't count him.
Risen 2
Embry 2
Howell 3
Ramsey 8
KC Jones 8 (full seasons, and another, his ninth was partial)
Sanders 9
Heinsohn 9
[B]Russell had 71-24 edge in HOF seasons with his teammates over Chamberlain. [/B]
What the heck are you talkin' about?
[QUOTE=Pointguard]If they didn't respect him, it was because the fear was blocking that emotion. For ten years he was most likely to outscore, outrebound, outblock anybody on the court. And for most of that time he was likely to do it unlike anybody in the sport would ever do it, even 60 years later. For ten years you didn't know when a a massive 55/35 triple double might be had on your team. When focused he could assist as good as anybody in the game. And if that wasn't enough, he might have had the best defensive year ever as well. [B]In Shaq's most dominant scoring year he had one/tenth the separation Wilt had one year. Yeah, 1/10th!
[/B]
Wilt wasn't into intimidation in a physically aggressive manner, but he did dislocate one of the strongest guys in the games arm by blocking his dunk attempt. He did pick up Bob Lanier (one of the games biggest players) just to let him know how boxing out could work. Tex Winters spies on Wilt taking a couple of steps and leaping from the foul line to dunk the ball. These things leak out, incidental stories about his strength and agility. Do you really think he wasn't respected?[/QUOTE]
That just means there is more parity in the league. Cherry picking stats is pointless.
[QUOTE=La Frescobaldi]Chamberlain was the greatest basketball player of all time. Nobody is even close.
Sorry but you never watched him or you'd never even think that.[/QUOTE]
"was" or is? How can you be the greatest when you are a) short in rings and b) perform worse as the playoffs come?
How can he be in the discussion when he lacks the total dominance (in both regular season and playoffs). Jordan is one of few who's stats INCREASED as the playoffs came. Not to mention, never losing a series with HCA. :no:
[QUOTE=-23-]"was" or is? How can you be the greatest when you are a) short in rings and b) perform worse as the playoffs come?
How can he be in the discussion when he lacks the total dominance (in both regular season and playoffs). Jordan is one of few who's stats INCREASED as the playoffs came. Not to mention, never losing a series with HCA. :no:[/QUOTE]
I recommend you google insidehoops wilt chamberlain and start reading up
The facts are entirely different.
For example:
[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=245643[/url]
[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=194899&page=16[/url]
best of luck with that
[QUOTE=-23-]"was" or is? How can you be the greatest when you are a) short in rings and b) perform worse as the playoffs come?
How can he be in the discussion when he lacks the total dominance (in both regular season and playoffs). Jordan is one of few who's stats INCREASED as the playoffs came. Not to mention, never losing a series with HCA. :no:[/QUOTE]
You obviously did not read ANY of THIS topic. Chamberlain was CRUSHING his PEERS, in the BIGGEST games of his career.
Go back and re-read it, and then get back to me.
[QUOTE=-23-]That just means there is more parity in the league. Cherry picking stats is pointless.[/QUOTE]
Cherry picking??? Ok, does 7 years at 40 and 23 work better for you??? They would have respected a guy at half those numbers for a couple of years... At half that's a starting all-star today.
Parity??? You really thought there was another person as dominant as Shaq scoring wise???
You're joking right? This is your argument against Wilt being respected?
[QUOTE=PTB Fan]I have a question for Jlauber.
How come you go with stats for Wilt in the Wilt vs Russell debate.. look to excuse Wilt for his not so good performances (in some seasons) with an edge in HOFers.. and not to do the same in the Wilt vs Kareem debates, where the latter has a statistical edge in their battles?
This is just a fair question. Why the double standard? After all, you respected the greats of the game, don't you?[/QUOTE]
One, take a look at the Russell-Wilt battles. Chamberlain had a HUGE statistical edge. BUT, Russell had FAR better rosters.
Two, when Chamberlain and Kareem met, Wilt was well past his PRIME (while Kareem was in his greatest statistical seasons), AND, Kareem had GREAT surrounding talent.
For instance, I have read some here who claim that Russell "outplayed" Wilt in the '62 ECF's, despite Wilt's MASSIVE edge in scoring and efficiency. However, Russell was playing on the multiple-defending title Celtics, with a HOF-laden roster. Furthermore, Wilt's supporting cast played WORSE than they did in the regular season. Now, just how in the hell did Wilt single-handedly carry that inept roster to a game seven, two-point loss?
By contrast, Kareem's 71-72 Bucks, were the defending champs. The year before they had gone 66-16 in the regular season, and then waltzed thru the playoffs with a 12-2 record. AND, Wilt, playing without BOTH West and Baylor, matched Kareem, shot-for-shot, rebound-for-rebound, and in efficiency. This from a 34 year-old Wilt, and only a year removed from major knee surgery.
Kareem's 71-72 Bucks were UNIVERSALLY picked to repeat as champions before the season even began. Meanwhile, Chamberlain's Lakers were an old team, which had gone 48-34 the yearf before, and with all five returning starters over 30 years old. Virtually NO ONE picked LA to win the title.
And, once again, this was a well past his prime Chamberlain, too. I would never claim that, at that stage in their careers, that Chamberlain was the better player. STILL, those that actually WATCHED the 71-72 WCF's, including the MILWAUKEE PRESS, and the MILWAUKEE COACH, as well as virtually EVERYONE else, proclaimed that Wilt outplayed Kareem in that series. Time Magazine hailed Wilt's performance as DECISIVELY outplaying the 11 year younger Kareem.
And in the last four pivotal games of that series, (three of them Laker wins), Chamberlain reduced Kareem to a .414 shooter (including blocking MANY of his shots..and skyhooks.) And in the clinching game six win, on the road, Chamberlain took over the game in the 4th quarter, and engineered a Laker comeback win.
The real question would be...how would a battle between a PRIME Chamberlain and a prime Kareem have gone? We do KNOW that Wilt DOMINATED many of the same centers, to a FAR greater extent than Kareem did.
Kareem faced HOFers Willis Reed, Walt Bellamy, and Nate Thurmond, many times. BUT, think about this...Wilt had an ENTIRE season, covering NINE H2H games, in which he averaged 40 ppg against Reed. Chamberlain routinely SHELLED Bellamy. For instance, Wilt had entire SEASONS of 33.0 ppg (in 65-66), 43.7 ppg (in 62-63), and an unbelieveable 52.7 ppg, covering 10 H2H games in the 61-62 season.
Thurmond? Kareem faced Nate in over 50+ H2H games in their careers. He seldom even scored 30+ against Nate, and his HIGH game was 34 points. A PRIME "scoring" Wilt faced Thurmond in a slightly over a DOZEN games. For example, in their last H2H meeting in the 64-65 season, Wilt scored 34 points against Thurmond. Then, in their nine H2H games in the 65-66 season, Chamberlain averaged 28.9 ppg against Thurmond, which included games of 33, 34, 38, and a whopping 45 point game (outscoring Nate, 45-13.) So, in a span of 10 straight games, Chamberlain was at nearly 30 ppg against Thurmond.
I could go on, but once again, Kareem never faced a PRIME Chamberlain. In their one H2H game before Wilt shredded his knee, he dominated a rookie Kareem in every facet of the game, hanging a 25-25 game, on 9-14 shooting, against Kareem. And while that was a rookie Kareem, that was still not a PRIME Chamberlain.
Jlauber will never tell you the fact that Wilt got outscored with 23 points per game by Kareem in the playoffs when he won his 2nd ring as a Laker. He will always mention Kareem's FG% in that series and how much it sucked but at the same time he "forgets" to mention that Wilt's FG% was even worse while Kareem outscored him with 23 points per game. He will not mention either that Kareem outassisted Wilt in that series and that he shot FT's twice as good as Wilt but he will mention bogus stuff about Wilt blocking 20 skyhooks in that series, the source of that nonsense is himself..
He will only mention the fact that he found one article that he's constantly misreading words on purpose because he thinks that everyone will fall for his nonsense as proof of how Wilt outplayed Kareem.
Before Jlauber got confronted regarding this series he used spam about how Wilt absolutely destroyed Kareem in that series and how he "murdered" Kareem which of course wasn't true. You don't murder someone when you're getting outscored with 23 points per game by someone who even shoots with higher FG% then yourself..:facepalm
[QUOTE=-23-]"was" or is? How can you be the greatest when you are a) short in rings and b) perform worse as the playoffs come?
How can he be in the discussion when he lacks the total dominance (in both regular season and playoffs). Jordan is one of few who's stats INCREASED as the playoffs came. Not to mention, never losing a series with HCA. :no:[/QUOTE]
I posted EVERY one of Wilt's "must-win" or series clinching games of his post-season career. All 35 of them. And no, I didn't "cherry pick" them either. Go back and re-read each one of them, and tell me in just how many that he was outplayed.
In the meantime...
I'll repost this...
[QUOTE]The idiotic Bill Simmons claims that Wilt "shrunk" in the post-season, particularly in BIG games.
Had he actually done any real research into Wilt's post-season career, he would have found that Wilt averaged 27.0 ppg in his 35 "must-win" and/or clinching games. Meanwhile, his starting opposing centers averaged 14.5 ppg in those 35 games. He also outscored his opposing starting center in 29 of those 35 games, including a 19-0 edge in his first 19 games of those 35. Furthermore, in his 13 games which came in his "scoring" seasons (from 59-60 thru 65-66), Chamberlain averaged 37.3 ppg in those "do-or-die" or clinching games. And there were MANY games in which he just CRUSHED his opposing centers in those games (e.g. he outscored Kerr in one them, 53-7.)
Wilt had THREE of his four 50+ point post-season games, in these "elimination games", including two in "at the limit" games, and another against Russell in a "must-win" game. He also had games of 46-34 and 45-27 (and only 4 months removed from major knee surgery) in these types of games. In addition he had games of 39 and 38 in clinching wins.
In the known 19 games in which we have both Wilt's, and his starting opposing center's rebounding numbers, Chamberlain outrebounded them in 15 of them, and by an average margin of 26.1 rpg to 18.9 rpg. And, had we had all 35 of the totals, it would have been by a considerably larger margin. A conservative estimate would put Wilt with at least a 30-5 overall edge in those 35 games. He also had games, even against the likes of Russell, and in "must-win" situations, where he just MURDERED his opposing centers (e.g. he had one clinching game, against Russell, in which he outrebounded him by a 36-21 margin.)
And finally, in the known FG% games in which we have, Chamberlain not only shot an eye-popping .582 in those "do-or-die" games, but he held his opposing centers to a combined .413 FG%. BTW, he played against Kareem in two "clinching" games, and held Abdul-Jabbar to a combined .383 shooting in those two games.
The bottom line, in the known games of the 35 that Wilt played in that involved a "must-win" or clincher, Wilt averaged 27 ppg, 26.1 rpg, and shot .582 (and the 27 ppg figure was known for all 35 of those games.)
And once again, Chamberlain played in 11 games which went to the series limit (nine game seven's, one game five of a best-of-five series, and one game three of a best-of-three series), and all he did was average 29.9 ppg (outscoring his opposing center by a 29.9 ppg to 9.8 ppg margin in the process), with 26.7 rpg, and on .581 shooting. Or he was an eye-lash away from averaging a 30-27 game, and on nearly .600 shooting, in those 11 "at the limit" games.
Oh, and BTW, Chamberlain's TEAMs went 24-11 in those 35 games, too.
That was the same player that Simmons basically labeled a "loser", and a "choker", and who "shrunk" in his BIG games.
[/QUOTE]
One more time...ALL 35 of Wilt's "must-win" or series clinching games...
[QUOTE]Ok, here are the known numbers in Wilt's "must-win" playoff games (elimination games), and clinching game performances (either deciding winning or losing games), of BOTH Chamberlain, and his starting opposing centers in those games.
1. Game three of a best-of-three series in the first round of the 59-60 playoffs against Syracuse, a 132-112 win. Wilt with 53 points, on 24-42 shooting, with 22 rebounds. His opposing center, Red Kerr, who was a multiple all-star in his career, had 7 points.
2. Game five of the 59-60 ECF's against Boston, a 128-107 win. Chamberlain had 50 points, on 22-42 shooting, with 35 rebounds. His opposing center, Russell, had 22 points and 27 rebounds.
3. Game six of the 59-60 ECF's against Boston, in a 119-117 loss. Wilt had a 26-24 game, while Russell had a 25-25 game.
4. Game three of a best-of-five series in the first round of the 60-61 playoffs , and against Syracuse, in a 106-103 loss. Chamberlain with 33 points, while his opposing center, the 7-3 Swede Halbrook, scored 6 points.
5. Game five of a best-of-five series in the first round of the 61-62 playoffs, against Syracuse, in a 121-104 win. Chamberlain had 56 points, on 22-48 shooting, with 35 rebounds. Kerr had 20 points in the loss.
6. Game six of the 61-62 ECF's, and against Boston, in a 109-99 win. Wilt with 32 points and 21 rebounds. Russell had 19 points and 22 rebounds in the loss.
7. Game seven of the 61-62 ECF's, against Boston, in a 109-107 loss. Wilt with 22 points, on 7-15 shooting, with 21 rebounds. Russell had 19 points, on 7-14 shooting, with 22 rebounds in the win.
8. Game seven of the 63-64 WCF's, and against St. Louis, in a 105-95 win. Wilt with 39 points, 26 rebounds, and 10 blocks. His opposing center, Zelmo Beaty, who would go on to become a multiple all-star, had 10 points in the loss.
9. Game five of the 63-64 Finals, and against Boston, in a 105-99 loss. Chamberlain with 30 points and 27 rebounds. Russell had 14 points and 26 points in the win.
10. Game four of a best-of-five series in the 64-65 first round of the playoffs against Cincinnati, a 119-112 win. Chamberlain with 38 points. His opposing center, multiple all-star (and HOFer) Wayne Embry had 7 points in the loss.
11. Game six of the 64-65 ECF's, against Boston, a 112-106 win. Chamberlain with a 30-26 game. Russell with a 22-21 game in the loss.
12. Game seven of the 64-65 ECF's, and against Boston, a 110-109 loss. Wilt with 30 points, on 12-15 shooting, with 32 rebounds. Russell had 15 points, on 7-16 shooting, with 29 rebounds in the win.
13. Game five of a best-of-seven series, in the 65-66 ECF's, and against Boston, in a 120-112 loss. Wilt had 46 points, on 19-34 shooting, with 34 rebounds. Russell had 18 points and 31 rebounds in the win.
14. Game four of a best-of-five series, in the first round of the 66-67 playoffs, and against Cincinnati, a 112-94 win. Wilt with 18 points, on 7-14 shooting, with 27 rebounds and 9 assists. His opposing center, Connie Dierking, had 8 points, on 4-14 shooting, with 4 rebounds in the loss.
15. Game five of the 66-67 ECF's, and against Boston, in a 140-116 win. Chamberlain with 29 points, on 10-16 shooting, with 36 rebounds, 13 assists, and 7 blocks. Russell had 4 points, on 2-5 shooting, with 21 rebounds, and 7 assists in the loss.
16. Game six of the 66-67 Finals, and against San Francisco, in a 125-122 win. Chamberlain with 24 points, on 8-13 shooting, with 23 rebounds. His oppsoing center, HOFer Nate Thurmond, had 12 points, on 4-13 shooting, with 22 rebounds in the loss.
17. Game six of the first round of the 67-68 playoffs, against NY, in a 113-97 win. Wilt had 25 points, and 27 rebounds. His opposing center, HOFer Walt Bellamy, had 19 points in the loss.
18. Game seven of the 67-68 ECF's, against Boston, in a 100-96 loss. Wilt with 14 points, on 4-9 shooting, with 34 rebounds. Russell had 12 points and 26 rebounds in the win.
19. Game six of the first round of the 68-69 playoffs, against San Francisco, in a 118-78 win. Wilt with 11 points. Thurmond had 8 points in the loss.
20. Game four of the 68-69 WCF's, against Atlanta, in a 133-114 sweeping win. Chamberlain with 16 points. His opposing center, Zelmo Beaty had 30 points in the loss.
21. Game seven of the 68-69 Finals, against Boston, in a 108-106 loss. Chamberlain had 18 points, on 7-8 shooting, with 27 rebounds. Russell had 6 points, on 2-7 shooting, with 21 rebounds in the win.
22. Game five of a best-of-seven series (the Lakers were down 3-1 going into the game) in the first round of the 69-70 playoffs, and against Phoenix, a 138-121 win. Wilt with 36 points and 14 rebounds. His opposing center, Neal Walk, had 18 points in the loss.
23. Game six of the first round of the 69-70 playoffs, against Phoenix, in a 104-93 win. Wilt with 12 points. Jim Fox started that game for Phoenix, and had 13 points in the loss.
24. Game seven of the first round of the 69-70 playoffs, against Phoenix, and in a 129-94 win, which capped a 4-3 series win after falling behind 3-1 in the series. Wilt with 30 points, 27 rebounds, and 11 blocks. Fox had 7 points in the loss.
25. Game four of the 69-70 WCF's, against Atlanta, in a 133-114 sweeping win. Wilt with 11 points. Bellamy had 19 points in the loss.
26. Game six of the 69-70 Finals, against NY, in a 135-113 win. Wilt with 45 points, on 20-27 shooting, with 27 rebounds. Nate Bowman had 18 points, on 9-15 shooting, with 8 rebounds in the loss.
27. Game seven of the 69-70 Finals, against NY, in a 113-99 loss. Wilt with 21 points, on 10-16 shooting, with 24 rebounds. HOFer Willis Reed had 4 points, on 2-5 shooting, with 3 rebounds in the win.
28. Game seven of the first round of the 70-71 playoffs, against Chicago, in a 109-98 win. Wilt with 25 points and 18 rebounds. 7-0 Tom Boerwinkle had 4 points for the Bulls in the loss.
29. Game five of the 70-71 WCF's, against Milwaukee, in a 116-94 loss. Wilt had 23 points, on 10-21 shooting, with 12 rebounds, 6 blocks (5 of them on Alcindor/Kareem.) Kareem had 20 points, on 7-23 shooting, with 15 rebounds, and 3 blocks in the win. Incidently, Wilt received a standing ovation when he left the game late...and the game was played in Milwaukee.
30. Game four of the 71-72 first round of the playoffs, against Chicago, in a 108-97 sweeping win. Wilt had 8 points and 31 rebounds. Clifford Ray had 20 points in the loss.
31. Game six of the 71-72 WCF's, against Milwaukee, in a 104-100 win. Chamberlain with 20 points, on 8-12 shooting, with 24 rebounds, and 9 blocks (six against Kareem.) Kareem had 37 points, on 16-37 shooting, with 25 rebounds in the loss.
32. Game five of the 71-72 Finals, against NY, in a 114-100 win. Chamberlain with 24 points, on 10-14 shooting, with 29 rebounds, and 9 blocks. HOFer Jerry Lucas had 14 points, on 5-14 shooting, with 9 rebounds in the loss.
33. Game seven of the first round of the 72-73 playoffs, against Chicago, in a 95-92 win. Wilt with 21 points and 28 rebounds. His opposing center, Clifford Ray, had 4 points.
34. Game five of the 72-73 WCF's, and against Golden St., in a 128-118 win. Wilt with 5 points. Thurmond had 9 points in the loss.
35. Game five of the 72-73 Finals, against NY, in a 102-93 loss. Wilt with 23 points, on 9-16 shooting, with 21 rebounds. Willis Reed had 18 points, on 9-16 shooting, with 12 rebounds.
That was it. 35 "must-win" elimination and/or clinching post-season games.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=La Frescobaldi]**************************************
Chamberlain had an edge in Hall of Famers????????????????????????????
Chamberlain's teammates AND HOW MANY SEASONS HE PLAYED WITH THEM:
Baylor 4
West 5
Greer 4
Cunningham 3 (anyone remember BC breaking his arm in the 68 playoffs?)
Arizin 3
Thurmond 2
Gola 3
Total: 24 seasons together.
Baylor? from the 69-70 season right through the end of his career in 71-72 he played 65 games. He never played a full season with Chamberlain.
And it's interesting that Chamberlain wrecked his knee in 69 and missed the season. And it's interesting that Baylor & West both missed the '71 playoffs.
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Russell?
Russell's teammates AND HOW MANY SEASONS RUSSELL PLAYED WITH THEM:
Havlicek 7
Cousy 7
Sharman 5
Sam Jones 12
Lovellette played two partial seasons with Russell, and limited minutes so we won't count him.
Risen 2
Embry 2
Howell 3
Ramsey 8
KC Jones 8 (full seasons, and another, his ninth was partial)
Sanders 9
Heinsohn 9
[B]Russell had 71-24 edge in HOF seasons with his teammates over Chamberlain. [/B]
What the heck are you talkin' about?[/QUOTE]
Wilt had a comparable supporting cast from 65 to the rest of their match ups and IMO, better. None of Russell's team mates was individually better than any of Wilt's (granted Hondo is good, but he isn't better than Baylor and West). Difference between the two lies in the fact that Russell maximized his team mates' strengths and made them so so much better unlike Wilt who didn't do well in this area and no stats will prove me wrong.
So, it's not like Wilt didn't have advantage, but for some reasons he couldn't beat Russell (expect in 67) in a series despite having some good to brilliant rosters in his career.
[QUOTE=jlauber]One, take a look at the Russell-Wilt battles. Chamberlain had a HUGE statistical edge. BUT, Russell had FAR better rosters.
Two, when Chamberlain and Kareem met, Wilt was well past his PRIME (while Kareem was in his greatest statistical seasons), AND, Kareem had GREAT surrounding talent.
For instance, I have read some here who claim that Russell "outplayed" Wilt in the '62 ECF's, despite Wilt's MASSIVE edge in scoring and efficiency. However, Russell was playing on the multiple-defending title Celtics, with a HOF-laden roster. Furthermore, Wilt's supporting cast played WORSE than they did in the regular season. Now, just how in the hell did Wilt single-handedly carry that inept roster to a game seven, two-point loss?
By contrast, Kareem's 71-72 Bucks, were the defending champs. The year before they had gone 66-16 in the regular season, and then waltzed thru the playoffs with a 12-2 record. AND, Wilt, playing without BOTH West and Baylor, matched Kareem, shot-for-shot, rebound-for-rebound, and in efficiency. This from a 34 year-old Wilt, and only a year removed from major knee surgery.
Kareem's 71-72 Bucks were UNIVERSALLY picked to repeat as champions before the season even began. Meanwhile, Chamberlain's Lakers were an old team, which had gone 48-34 the yearf before, and with all five returning starters over 30 years old. Virtually NO ONE picked LA to win the title.
And, once again, this was a well past his prime Chamberlain, too. I would never claim that, at that stage in their careers, that Chamberlain was the better player. STILL, those that actually WATCHED the 71-72 WCF's, including the MILWAUKEE PRESS, and the MILWAUKEE COACH, as well as virtually EVERYONE else, proclaimed that Wilt outplayed Kareem in that series. Time Magazine hailed Wilt's performance as DECISIVELY outplaying the 11 year younger Kareem.
And in the last four pivotal games of that series, (three of them Laker wins), Chamberlain reduced Kareem to a .414 shooter (including blocking MANY of his shots..and skyhooks.) And in the clinching game six win, on the road, Chamberlain took over the game in the 4th quarter, and engineered a Laker comeback win.
The real question would be...how would a battle between a PRIME Chamberlain and a prime Kareem have gone? We do KNOW that Wilt DOMINATED many of the same centers, to a FAR greater extent than Kareem did.
Kareem faced HOFers Willis Reed, Walt Bellamy, and Nate Thurmond, many times. BUT, think about this...Wilt had an ENTIRE season, covering NINE H2H games, in which he averaged 40 ppg against Reed. Chamberlain routinely SHELLED Bellamy. For instance, Wilt had entire SEASONS of 33.0 ppg (in 65-66), 43.7 ppg (in 62-63), and an unbelieveable 52.7 ppg, covering 10 H2H games in the 61-62 season.
Thurmond? Kareem faced Nate in over 50+ H2H games in their careers. He seldom even scored 30+ against Nate, and his HIGH game was 34 points. A PRIME "scoring" Wilt faced Thurmond in a slightly over a DOZEN games. For example, in their last H2H meeting in the 64-65 season, Wilt scored 34 points against Thurmond. Then, in their nine H2H games in the 65-66 season, Chamberlain averaged 28.9 ppg against Thurmond, which included games of 33, 34, 38, and a whopping 45 point game (outscoring Nate, 45-13.) So, in a span of 10 straight games, Chamberlain was at nearly 30 ppg against Thurmond.
I could go on, but once again, Kareem never faced a PRIME Chamberlain. In their one H2H game before Wilt shredded his knee, he dominated a rookie Kareem in every facet of the game, hanging a 25-25 game, on 9-14 shooting, against Kareem. And while that was a rookie Kareem, that was still not a PRIME Chamberlain.[/QUOTE]
Hm..still doesn't change the fact that you go with stats when they are in favor of your favor player. Not a fan of that.