Explain to me why Rose didn't deserve the 2011 MVP

[QUOTE=Heavincent]Put up 25/8/4 and led his team to the best record in the East. How is that not MVP worthy? If not him, then who? It was debatable as to who the best player on the 2011 Heat even was, and they had an inferior record, so you can't give it to Lebron or Wade. Out west, you had Durant or Dirk maybe? I guess those guys had cases, but neither were quite as good in the regular season as Rose was imo.

I just see a lot of revisionist history from people (mainly Lebron homers). They act like it was a controversial MVP award or something, even though Rose was pretty much the consensus MVP by about March or so.[/QUOTE]
1. Lebron
If you think it was unclear who Miami's best player was, you are an idiot.

2. Dwight
The best defensive player in the game who also happened to be the most efficient scorer in the paint.

Rose was given wat too much credit, the real reason that the Bulls overachieved at that season was the team defense designed and installed by a new coach.

Lol idiots are saying because Miami would still be a good team without Lebron, Lebron is not that important to be the MVP?

Give me a break. He is the team's best scorer, rebounder, passer, ball handler and defender. And his team is the best team in the league. Oh yeah what an unimportant player who could be replaced rather easily.

Maybe Miami could win 50 games and make the playoffs without Lebron, but the difference between a 66 win eventual champion and a 50 win team would be much bigger than that of a 50 win team and 30 win team.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855].....[/QUOTE]

How bad do you think the magic would have been without Dwight? Dwight was a better offensive player than rose IMO, but that's arguable. What is inarguable is that he was playing a different game entirely defensively.

There is no question in my mind whatsoever that Dwight deserved it over rose, and that rose only won cause of media love.

[QUOTE=poido123]It doesn't mean Rose doesn't deserve it or meet the criteria for an MVP, Rose had a team percentage over .610 which is what every MVP has had since 83'.

It is arguable that Rose was the best player, what you believe to be different is not FACT.[/QUOTE]

It's also arguable that the sky is pink. Just because you say it doesn't make it a good argument.

1. Rose deserved it.
2. Lebron annhilated Rose in the playoffs and showed the world what he thought of the 'MVP'.

2 years later.

1. Rose to return from ACL and skills/athleticism questionable
2. Lebron 2FMVP and 2MVP added to his cabinet

Hope Rose the best btw, but if you pay attention to his play style its too much lateral side to side fast movement and then he pops and explodes vertically. Its not the sort of playstyle you can come back and utilize after an ACL. He either has to adapt to a new playstyle or that ACL is going to tear again real quick. Lebron on the other hand..well 'he got no worries'

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]

For all the claims of coaching and defense....

64 win pace with Rose.

45 without.

It is not by chance.[/quote]

Deliberate misleading. You chose this past years team to compare knowing that their bench lost Asik, Korver, Watson. Bulls were credited with the best and deepest bench in 2011 and in the 2012 shortened season still won 70% of Roseless games.

[QUOTE=Unbiased_one]That was dwight's mvp...[/QUOTE]

This

People saying Howard should have won really need to stop. 4th seed in the East will not get you an MVP.

[QUOTE=SilkkTheShocker]People saying Howard should have won really need to stop. 4th seed in the East will not get you an MVP.[/QUOTE]

Take Rose off the Bulls and they look like the could make the playoffs. Take LeBron off Miami and they looked like they could make the playoffs. Take Dwight off Orlando and they make the lottery bro. That's MVP shit. Because his teammates weren't that good so that makes him less valuable? I've never understood why the team record counts so much. If that's the only reason somebody can come up with though that's crazy to me.

[QUOTE=NumberSix]The best player of the season IS the most valuable.


26.7/7.5/7 on 51% is more valuable than 25/4.1/7.7 on 44.5% no matter which may you slice it. That doesn't even take defense into account.

LeBrons production is more valuable than Rose's.

And if you want to use the dumb team success thing, being that even with LeBron's superior production the heat won less games, its clear than the Heat needed LeBron's production even more than Chicago needed Roses.

There's no way around it. LeBron was better (more valuable) than rose.[/QUOTE]

Lebron and Wade simply were in each others way and didn't even have established roles. Wade was the leader and Lebron didn't really know how to fit in. And it cost them the best record and got them second place in their division. They sucked against better teams. One good highlight was Lebron getting mad at a higher up in Orlando and told them he was going to bust them up in Orlando and Dwight Howard was a witness. In fact they shortly thereafter busted the Orlando team up. DH exit right stage and wasn't a superstar after March 1st. His leadership sucked and got suspended a couple of times. Not a good look for a contending MVP.

Rose was more valuable than Lebron in games against the elite. And that's putting it mildly. Rose would not let his team lose and they didn't lose to a top eight team after Dec. 13th. Miami wasn't even good against the elite. At March 1st Miami, Orlando and Chicago were all within a game and a half within each other. It was MVP time, and it wasn't close. Not only did Rose take over games in the fourth quarter, he simply won more games on his back than anybody else without question. Team had injuries like crazy and to the two other key players.

Rose was the only player that played hard and with purpose the whole year. There were no taking games off or looking lost. Lebron was a better player but he had more games where he looked lost, where he didn't know how he fitted in and wasn't the leader of his team when they needed it. DH subscribed to the same problems. Their teams were not even pushing the Bulls. And Miami had every reason in the world to win more games. And Rose was the offense of his team - without another player making the allstar team or any other team for that matter. Nobody making the top ten in anything.

[QUOTE]Deliberate misleading. You chose this past years team to compare knowing that their bench lost Asik, Korver, Watson. Bulls were credited with the best and deepest bench in 2011 and in the 2012 shortened season still won 70% of Roseless games.[/QUOTE]

No. Thats every single game with and without rose since game one of 10/11. The games he missed that year...the games he missed in 2012...and all last season. Simple with and without since the time in question.

Not like its hard to look into. Do the numbers yourself. They were on a 67 and change win pace with Rose playing in 2012. 33 wins and 7 losses.

Just the facts.

The BULLS had a great year. Their ascension from middling defensive team to defensive juggernaut was the reason why. Giving Rose ANY credit for this is borderline absurd as he was a horrible defensive liability (though he did improve some the following season). People don't get that defense is often what wins and would rather give credit to the leading scorer of a successful team. That team lost Asik, Korver, Watson AND Rose and still made the second round of the playoffs. Meanwhile, without LeBron on the floor last year Miami has been outscored by their opponents, and by a HUGE margin.


2010-2011 RAPM

1) Howard - 9.7
2) LeBron - 8.1
3) CP3 - 7.5
4) Dirk - 6.9
.
.
.
32) DRose - 3.2

I don't mind not giving it to LeBron that year because they lost ALL their close games and there were a lot of adjustments being made and his benefit (outside of Cleveland going from a 66 win team to the worst losing streak in pro sports history) was diminished.

[QUOTE=Mr Exlax]Take Rose off the Bulls and they look like the could make the playoffs. Take LeBron off Miami and they looked like they could make the playoffs. Take Dwight off Orlando and they make the lottery bro. That's MVP shit. Because his teammates weren't that good so that makes him less valuable? I've never understood why the team record counts so much. If that's the only reason somebody can come up with though that's crazy to me.[/QUOTE]

I don't disagree. They just aren't going to change the way they feel about the regular season records

I'm not saying that Rose didn't deserve the MVP. I often say that it's usually easier to make a case for another candidate than it is against the winner. Having said that, the MVP storyline that season was as much about "How can we make certain we avoid giving it to Lebron?" as it was about anything else. Again, Rose may have deserved it, but ensuring that Lebron didn't receive it was just as important. Howard may have actually been the best choice, but the voters weren't going to give the MVP to a player on the team with the 8th best record in the league.

[quote=HurricaneKid]The BULLS had a great year. Their ascension from middling defensive team to defensive juggernaut was the reason why. Giving Rose ANY credit for this is borderline absurd as he was a horrible defensive liability (though he did improve some the following season). People don't get that defense is often what wins and would rather give credit to the leading scorer of a successful team. [/quote]

You mean like....virtually in every case in the history of sports?

When...has the clearly best player on a dominant team not been given credit for it because of team defense or hustle? You wanna say a teams best player shouldnt get love over good team morale and ball movement now? Its basketball. You win by playing it well together.

Did I miss the people hating on Bird because the Celtics had an elite defense?

Who is prepared to hate on Isiah Thomas for arguably the GOAT defense to that point along with 5 all stars, one of the best 6th men ever, the DPOY, and a HOF coach? Meanwhile hes shooting worse than Rose and nobody seems to care. Reasonably sure his HOF career summary does not mention it. Why would it?

A teams leader always has and always will get the credit for its success. Especially one who wins at the rate of the second threepeat Bulls on a team that is a 5th seed without him.

Amazes me how many Heat fans get in on this idiocy. Have clowns laughing over a torn acl hating on a guy for 3 years even when the rest of the world is praising him. The Pacers coach was so impressed with Rose one game he said he had Iversons speed, Kidds vision, Billups shooting, and Jordans athletic ability...just...gushing praise. He had dropped like 40. Same game Heat fans talking shit about his shooting percentage like basketball people give a shit.

Im a bulls fan. Nobody ever saw me hating on Lebron. Or Rondo. Or Westbrook. What is it that makes otherwise reasonable people act like bitches on the internet over a team rivalry? Some guy jumps on the heat bandwaggon and suddenly he has to hate Derrick Rose?

The **** is wrong with you people?

Derrick Rose is gonna be a first ballot hall of famer barring more injury and you will still be mad about a shooting percentage 20 years earlier because Lebron didnt win an MVP on a team that underachieved and had 2 other stars on it with the expectation of ruling the league.

You dont go in expected to approach 70 wins....win like 55-56....have people asking all year why you arent as good as you should be while another player on your team is playing almost exactly as well...and get MVP.

And you dont win 52 games and win MVP either.

This is what I said April 2011:


[quote] By the way ive always thought the MVP voting should go...

Id give it to Dwight. Lebron is probably the best player(by an inch or two over Dwight) but I cant get past him having perhaps the 3rd or 4th best on his team. Hes borderline superfluous. The Heat likely win 50 games or more without any of the 3. His value will show most in the playoffs where great players can win you a game or series you shouldnt win. Regular season...in the long grind...not sure how to justify voting for a guy as the MVP when the removal of him wouldnt hurt the teams record that much. Might hurt it 8-9 games. But remove Dwight?

Ugly.
[/quote]

But that has not been how it works for 30 years.

I didnt care who won it then and I dont care now. Clearly I wouldnt have been mad at Dwight winning.

But there has been so much bullshit claimed about Rose since im glad he did.

He was a legit option. Lebron and the Heat just didnt win that much relative to the firepower.

Dwight ended up with what would have been the worst MVP record in a quarter century.

Rose was the key player on a team that is just ok without him.

He won MVP. Nobody with half a brain is taking points from him over team cohesiveness or getting back on defense. Nobody ever took points from anyone else over it.

And not like there was an 09 Lebron leading an ok team to 66 wins or Jordan doing 35ppg on a 50 win team.

Just guys with shaky claims who got hurt at the wrong time or didnt win that much.

Being mad for years is just sad. And sadder still...that so many are from one fanbase. Being a bulls fan all my life didnt cause me to hate on Dwight and there are people here who think I love Lebron(I dont even like him most of the time). Clearly my love of my team has not caused me to hate on them. Why must so many Heat fans show up hating on Rose calling him Brandon Jennings or a role player. Is there a shepherd somewhere leading you all around?