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[QUOTE=DMAVS41]Facts are facts.
Kobe's teams usually get worse on defense with him on the floor. Bitch gambles and misses assignments consistently.
Last time that ***** made a positive impact on defense...he was rocking the fro.[/QUOTE]
:roll: 9 Time All-Defensive First Teams, Fact. Your a joke and you try too hard. Kobe's defense is factually far ans ahead of Dirks. Nice try dumbass.
[QUOTE=branslowski]:roll: 9 Time All-Defensive First Teams, Fact. Your a joke and you try too hard. Kobe's defense is factually far ans ahead of Dirks. Nice try dumbass.[/QUOTE]
Kobe's defense is better than Dirks, yes.
Kobe getting 9 Defensive team selections is a joke, yes.
I thought Kobe stans didn't care about regular season awards anyway.
"Who cares LeBron has 3 more MVPs than Kobe, 5 > 2"
:confusedshrug:
[QUOTE=branslowski]:roll: 9 Time All-Defensive First Teams, Fact. Your a joke and you try too hard. Kobe's defense is factually far ans ahead of Dirks. Nice try dumbass.[/QUOTE]
The opinions of others aren't facts.
You need to learn what a fact is. Don't they teach about opinions and facts at Wal-Mart?
I see people already covered the more recent right answers (Rose, Nash, Iverson, and anyone beating out Jordan in the 90's) among all the other mindless posts. Carry on.
[QUOTE=DMAVS41]Facts are facts.
Kobe's teams usually get worse on defense with him on the floor. Bitch gambles and misses assignments consistently.
Last time that ***** made a positive impact on defense...he was rocking the fro.[/QUOTE]
Like I said...clown. Do you even watch the games, or do you just read box scores? You'd fit in perfectly with those idiot ESPN basketball writers like Hoolinger and Abbott who just pull meaningless advanced metrics out of their asses.
Treating basketball like it's a ****ing math equation. What a joke :facepalm
[QUOTE=Heavincent]Like I said...clown. Do you even watch the games, or do you just read box scores? You'd fit in perfectly with those idiot ESPN basketball writers like Hoolinger and Abbott who just pull meaningless advanced metrics out of their asses.
Treating basketball like it's a ****ing math equation. What a joke :facepalm[/QUOTE]
My bad. I should listen to the opinions of die hard fans of a player instead of watching for myself and looking at objective measures.
You are the same fan base that still insists Kobe is the best game winning shot maker!
I watch the games and see it differently than you....so how do we settle disputes? I'd say an objective measure that is the same for all players is a good place to start.
Like the following.
Dirk is factually a better performer in elimination games in the playoffs. That might not mean anything, but it's a fact. You can't dispute that.
And you appeal to math all the time. Every time you add up Kobe's points...you are doing math. That's all that matters though...we are stuck in the past in which ppg is all that matters.
But then we can't even bring up ppg for Kobe and Dirk in the playoffs because Dirk is higher. So we must throw out the most basic stat of them all.
Do you ever get tired of having to dodge simple facts all the time? It must get annoying...
[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]Kobe had more win shares than Shaq in the 2001 playoffs. He was more valuable. Those are facts! Derp.[/QUOTE]
Advanced stats man!
[QUOTE=DMAVS41]Facts are facts.
Kobe's teams usually get worse on defense with him on the floor. Bitch gambles and misses assignments consistently.
Last time that ***** made a positive impact on defense...he was rocking the fro.[/QUOTE]
Kobe's last few All Defense selections were a joke. And, Kobe does cost his team with impromptu gambles, as well as just physically incapable of staying in front of the more athletic, quicker guards in the league the last 2-3 years.
However, Kobe still had more value on defense than Dirk, both in recent memory and, more importantly, over the span of both their careers. At one point Kobe was a premier defender in the league. That waned as he focused on being more of an offensive force, but the fact remains that he at one point in time was a top 2-3 defender at his position.
Dirk, at no point, ever was, not even close. Not even top 15 at his position.
That's both factual and empirical.
And apparently DMAVS didn't catch the 08 season when Kobe was one of the best perimeter defenders in the league. Also doesn't remember him locking up Westbrook in 2010 playoffs.
[QUOTE=DMAVS41]My bad. I should listen to the opinions of die hard fans of a player instead of watching for myself and looking at objective measures.
You are the same fan base that still insists Kobe is the best game winning shot maker!
I watch the games and see it differently than you....so how do we settle disputes? I'd say an objective measure that is the same for all players is a good place to start.
Like the following.
Dirk is factually a better performer in elimination games in the playoffs. That might not mean anything, but it's a fact. You can't dispute that.
And you appeal to math all the time. Every time you add up Kobe's points...you are doing math. That's all that matters though...we are stuck in the past in which ppg is all that matters.
But then we can't even bring up ppg for Kobe and Dirk in the playoffs because Dirk is higher. So we must throw out the most basic stat of them all.
Do you ever get tired of having to dodge simple facts all the time? It must get annoying...[/QUOTE]
Dirk is, statistically and therefore otherwise, a better performer in elimination games than Kobe. This is true.
How many elimination games have both been in, btw?
[QUOTE=tmacattack33]Iverson, Nash, and Rose, since 1995 at least.[/QUOTE]
+1
[QUOTE=BlackVVaves]Dirk is, statistically and therefore otherwise, a better performer in elimination games than Kobe. This is true.
How many elimination games have both been in, btw?[/QUOTE]
I think around 20 each. Similar records as well I think...
:roll: :roll: Even without the All Defensive Teams Facts, Kobe is already in stone known for his Perimeter defense and will always be known for it. Dirk ain't no where near Kobe's level. Dudes a 0 impact defensively.
Dmavs wanna talk about opinions but prop LeBron's regular season MVPs up that's voted on by sports writer's, meanwhile All-Defensive Teams are voted by NBA coaches who watch tape, coach teams and know the game....U think I'm gonna listen to one ISH poster troll over the coaches in the NBA? Hellllllll No.:roll:
[QUOTE=Heavincent]And apparently DMAVS didn't catch the 08 season when Kobe was one of the best perimeter defenders in the league. Also doesn't remember him locking up Westbrook in 2010 playoffs.[/QUOTE]
I thought we were ignoring stuff that doesn't suit our agenda? Right?
So I guess Dirk didn't do anything to stop Aldridge from killing Chandler and the Mavs in the Blazers series?
You see my point? You claim he has 0 impact. And you want me to accept the Westbrook stuff, but you won't accept anything I offer.
So I'm left with solely looking at things that objectively exist. Like the on/off of Kobe on defense. And RAPM...defensive errors...etc. I'll post it all...and you'll say id doesn't matter.
And on top of it you want me to talk about Kobe's positive qualities on defense? Come on now...
[QUOTE=branslowski]:roll: :roll: Even without the All Defensive Teams Facts, Kobe is already in stone known for his Perimeter defense and will always be known for it. Dirk ain't no where near Kobe's level. Dudes a 0 impact defensively.
Dmavs wanna talk about opinions but prop LeBron's regular season MVPs up that's voted on by sports writer's, meanwhile All-Defensive Teams are voted by NBA coaches who watch tape, coach teams and know the game....U think I'm gonna listen to one ISH poster troll over the coaches in the NBA? Hellllllll No.:roll:[/QUOTE]
I'm just telling you certain facts. What you do with them is up to you.
What is a person supposed to do with the following...just ignore it?
[url]http://asubstituteforwar.wordpress.com/2011/05/09/kobe-bryant-the-most-overrated-defender-imaginable/[/url]
You think coaches have time to watch and track every possession mid season? They don't. Why do all these measures always seem to properly rate just about everyone except Kobe?
You'll notice that when I make a claim...I back it up with at least something. You'll notice when you make a claim...it involves throwing in ad hominem attacks to distract and merely subjective opinions with usually very little in the way of backing things up.
Or this:
[url]http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/24200/the-truth-about-kobe-bryant-in-crunch-time[/url]
Or this:
[url]http://chasing23.com/the-myth-of-playoff-kobe/[/url]
I'm supposed to just pretend this shit aint reality?
And this:
[url]http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/dirk-vs-kobe-in-elimination-games.202206832/[/url]
And this:
[url]http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?832847-Clutchness-in-elimination-games-stats-of-Jordan-Kobe[/url]
And this:
[url]http://www.mysportslegion.com/forums/showthread.php?24229-Game-7-stats-MJ-LBJ-Kobe-Wade-Duncan-Shaq-amp-Dirk[/url]