Dunking Data For 1988-1993: MJ is the Goat In-Game Dunker for Wing Players

[QUOTE=3ball]


[B][U]Jordan Threading the Needle with Dunks in Traffic that No One Else Could Do[/U][/B]


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[QUOTE=eliteballer]Every one of these where he starts from a standstill is a travel....dude moves both feet before dropping the ball for the dribble.[/QUOTE]
Jordan is the only one capable of completing a dunk in these spots because of the moves he has...

When he's posting up and he half-spins baseline but does that subtle upfake first to freeze the defender - only Jordan does that - then he has to tightrope the sideline and finish with a poster at the rim...

All these things together... only Jordan could do them... which is why the stats show he is the goat in-game dunker for wing players... he had all these extra layers to his game in addition to all the regular stuff (transition and dribble penetration).
.

MJ for sure has a case! But for me in terms of number of great in game dunks, give me Nique! If there was a point system to where THE MOST SICK DUNKS wins, I think Nique would come out the victor. And don't forget in terms of tip jams off the rim, Nique has NO EQUAL! In terms of difficulty or creativity, give me Vince. In terms of the most complete in game dunker ever (one foot or two feet) give me MJ. For a dunker who could manipulate the defense with his hands and glide the best, give me the Dr. J.

[QUOTE=eliteballer]It's not rocket science. [/QUOTE]
The NBA mandated that defenders cannot occupy the paint (defensive 3 second rule) - this rule coupled with today's 3-point shooting and the subsequent spacing [I]are why all of Lebron's dunks were wide open in 2013 and 2014[/I] - he didn't have to dunk on anybody.

Whereas the lack of spacing in Jordan's day meant he had to dunk over and through people all the time... you should re-read the op, since it had video proof of Lebron's open dunks and Jordan's posters in traffic.

And now we have actual numbers proving that it was MUCH harder to get a dunk in the early 90's than it is in this era.... The data can't be denied.

In 1988, Jordan got 158 dunks - at that time, dunks were completed league-wide once in every 28.7 shots.

In 2013, Lebron got his career-high of 144 dunks... but it was a lot easier to dunk - dunks were completed once in every 21.1 shots in 2013.

What is so hard to understand about this?

[QUOTE=3ball]The NBA mandated that defenders cannot occupy the paint (defensive 3 second rule) - this rule coupled with today's 3-point shooting and the subsequent spacing [I]are why all of Lebron's dunks were wide open in 2013 and 2014[/I] - he didn't have to dunk on anybody.

Whereas the lack of spacing in Jordan's day meant he had to dunk over and through people all the time... you should re-read the op, since it had video proof of Lebron's open dunks and Jordan's posters in traffic.

And now we have actual numbers proving that it was MUCH harder to get a dunk in the early 90's than it is in this era.... The data can't be denied.

In 1988, Jordan got 158 dunks - at that time, dunks were completed league-wide once in every 28.7 shots.

In 2013, Lebron got his career-high of 144 dunks... but it was a lot easier to dunk - dunks were completed once in every 21.1 shots in 2013.

What is so hard to understand about this?[/QUOTE]

Jordan had less space? Look in every clip you posted....he's isolated against one guy and has a clear path to the basket.

Why are there more dunks per shot now? The guys are more athletic now. Doesn't mean it isn't harder to get in there for a dunk.

IE How many PG's back then could easily throw down in a game vs. now? \

I like how you conveniently ignored my comment about Jordan traveling. He moves BOTH feet before his dribble touches the ground on all of them.

Kobe can do those dunks all day:[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sizsclc7sK8...except[/url] he adds more flavor like a windmill.

Kobe is a better dunker: [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvWy9liwC7U[/url]

[IMG]http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/media/2.0/teamsites/heat/images/131220-jamesdunk.gif[/IMG]

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[IMG]http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/51b5f6feeab8eacb64000022/lebron-jason-terry-dunk-gif.gif[/IMG]

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[IMG]http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/1066360/lebron-james-dunk-o.gif[/IMG]

look at all these dunks, in traffic, on multiple players.

nobody finishes like lebron today. hell nobody has ever finished like lebron around the rim.

what makes these more impressive than any of the ones posted here, are the defenses being played.

[B]“All you have to do is look at the stats,” Bird says. “There’s better shooting back then, better defense now."

“Offenses are a little more complex because the defenses have forced that,” Ainge says. “In the ’80s, defense was important but you didn’t do as much double-teaming, you didn’t do as much trapping. You played guys straight up."

"Players today have the skills from before but are also more athletic."

2001, Colangelo, on why the rule change was proposed:[/B]

[B]"Our belief is that the game has evolved, and the product we have presently was one that needed attention," Colangelo said "The game has changed in the sense that we've lost a lot of fluidity. We've evolved because of our defensive guidelines[/B]."

imo, lebron > jordan as an IN GAME dunker

[QUOTE=mehyaM24]
look at all these dunks, in traffic, on multiple players.
[/QUOTE]

It literally looks like you found the 5 poster dunks lebron has had in the last two seasons... :roll:

literally.. why don't you find 5 more from the past two seasons and post them... of course that's impossible, because they don't exist... video for all of Lebron's dunks from the 2013-2014 season was posted in the OP.


[QUOTE]imo, lebron > jordan as an IN GAME dunker[/QUOTE]

For the purposes of your denial, it's too bad the stats prove that Jordan dunked more in games and did so at a time when it was harder to get dunks.

In 1988, Jordan got 158 dunks - at that time, dunks were completed league-wide once in every 28.7 shots.

In 2013, Lebron got his career-high of 144 dunks... but it was a lot easier to dunk - dunks were completed once in every 21.1 shots in 2013.

What is so hard to understand about this?
.

[QUOTE=eliteballer]Why are there more dunks per shot now? The guys are more athletic now. Doesn't mean it isn't harder to get in there for a dunk.
...

Kobe is a better dunker[/QUOTE]

So now Kobe is more athletic than Jordan? :oldlol:

And isn't your claim that defenses are better now looking ridiculous since now you're claiming that guys are getting to the basket easier because they're more athletic? I mean, which is it?

And I love how the guy above's response to OP posting Jordan posters is LeBron doing what he does best- dunking over unsuspecting guards, one of them being 5'11 :roll:

Look at the dunk against the Bulls too, the defender is completely handicapped by not being able to physically impede Bron. All he can do is run next to him while Bron gets to the basket easily, with no resistance from a top tier defense in this era. Pathetic.

eliteballer and mehya's asses are sore. 3ball is lighting them up. :cheers:

[QUOTE=eliteballer]

The guys are more athletic now.

[/QUOTE]

So why is the dunk-per-shot data EQUAL with today's game starting in 1994?... Did guys get super-athletic all of a sudden starting in the mid-90's?

And of course when the dunk-per-shot data takes a brief nosedive again in 2000, did players get unathletic all of a sudden?

The answer is "of course not" to both questions above.

What actually happened was that there were rule changes in the mid-90's (described earlier itt by the poster PHILA) that helped free things up to make dunking easier... That that period also coincided with the largest ever increase in 3-point attempts (attempts more than doubled from 1991 to 1995), which resulted in more floor-spacing and easier, more unfettered dunking...

THIS is why getting dunks became easier in the mid-90's... the rules changes and the style of play shifted... but players did not all of a sudden get athletic as you figured was the case.

[QUOTE=sportjames23]eliteballer and mehya's asses are sore. 3ball is lighting them up. :cheers:[/QUOTE]

Might as well chisel his name on the award now. Shit is a landslide :applause:

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[QUOTE=3ball]It literally looks like you found the 5 poster dunks lebron has had in the last two seasons... :roll: [/quote]

those 5 poster dunks were better than anything posted in this thread so far. look at the 3rd gif down. head above the rim WITH EASE.
[quote]literally.. why don't you find 5 more from the past two seasons and post them... of course that's impossible, because they don't exist.[/quote]

:confusedshrug:

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[quote]too bad for the purposes of your denial, it's too bad that Jordan dunked more in games and did so at a time when it was harder to dunk.

In 1988, Jordan got 158 dunks - at that time, dunks were completed league-wide once in every 28.7 shots.

In 2013, Lebron got his career-high of 144 dunks... but it was a lot easier to dunk - dunks were completed once in every 21.1 shots in 2013.

What is so hard to understand about this?[/QUOTE]

not according to former players and league coaches.

the real difference is, lebron is far more strong around the basket. look at his build. look at charles said about lebron when compared to jordan: bigger, stronger and FASTER.

also:
[quote][B]“All you have to do is look at the stats,” Bird says. “There’s better shooting back then, better defense now."

“Offenses are a little more complex because the defenses have forced that,” Ainge says. “In the ’80s, defense was important but you didn’t do as much double-teaming, you didn’t do as much trapping. You played guys straight up."[/B][/quote]

you can also read what colangelo said about defenses muddying up the game now, because they are that much more sophisticated.

what coaches and league offices say > crazy jordan mark. sorry dude.

Mehyam24 - you are posting Lebron NOT chest-to-chest dunking on someone and trying to pass it off like it is a poster.

All but one of the dunks you just posted are wide open where defenders either can't get there to contest at all, or can only give a reach-in or fly-by - these are NOT chest-to-chest posters.

You can't post Lebron chest-to-chesting guys because they don't exist.... there is too much spacing in today's game so he doesn't need to.

Stop posting open dunks and trying to pass if off as a chest-to-chest poster.

[QUOTE=mehyaM24]
[IMG]http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view7/20131224/4933732/lebron-james-posterizes-paul-millsap-o.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/229/files/2014/03/8_lebron_dunks_on_2.gif[/IMG]
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[/QUOTE]

All you're doing is proving his point with those gifs.

The only one that qualifies as a poster involves a player going for a charge instead of challenging him. The rest are just Bron getting to the basket easily with no resistance. Shaun Livingston [I]literally[/I] put his hands up in surrender while watching LeCramp go to the basket unchallenged/untouhed in one :roll:

Also, you can't get by this..

In 1988, Jordan got 158 dunks - at that time, dunks were completed league-wide once in every 28.7 shots.

In 2013, Lebron got his career-high of 144 dunks... but it was a lot easier to dunk - dunks were completed once in every 21.1 shots in 2013.

[B]Jordan got more dunks when it was harder to dunk and now there's actually stats to prove it.[/B]

dunks from the cleveland years:

[IMG]http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/LeBron-James-Dunk-Over-Damon-Jones.gif[/IMG]

[IMG]http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/185335/lebron-dunking-on-timmy-o.gif[/IMG]

[IMG]http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view1/1230850/lebron-dunks-on-garnet-o.gif[/IMG]

when defenses are taken into account, lebron james is the GOAT ingame dunker.

:eek: OMFG at the dunk on damon jones. terror.