Hypocrisies in feminism

[QUOTE=Nick Young]Electrical engineering is one example.

Universities used to be a free exchange of ideas in formal settings. Now they are institutionalized. Ideas are shot down if they go against the professors point of view. You aren't encouraged to think for yourself, you are encouraged have the same viewpoints and ideas as your teachers, and memorize information to fill in end of year tests and essays properly.


[B]ANOTHER EXAMPLE-In many psychology courses around the UK, many muslim students are refusing to learn evolutionary psychology, because evolution goes against their religion. They walk out of the class and refuse to answer test questions. Because teachers are afraid of being Islamaphobic, they pass these students and give them degrees anyways. SO basically there are all these kids out there now with psychology degrees, able to practice psychology who aren't really qualified to do it, because they blocked out loads of lessons. What does a UK degree mean?[/B]


My last job was in the education sector. I sat in several meetings with VCs, deans and course leaders and had to listen to several episodes such as this that are occuring in unis all over the UK. I spoke to kids DOING MASTERS PROGRAMMES IN PSYCHOLOGY WHO DIDN'T KNOW WHO CARL JUNG WAS.

University educations are starting to mean jack shit. Unis are just doing their best to accept as many dumbasses in to their program as possible to get their loan money and then spit them out with degrees that they don't deserve. This is what happens when Liberal la la land encourages everyone to get degrees.

Also loads of kids are graduating uni expecting jobs to be handed to them on a silver platter-entitlement culture is taking over.

Maybe this is a UK specific problem, I wouldn't know.[/QUOTE]

Name and shame then, which university? My dad's a lecturer and has never encountered anything like this.

[QUOTE]Also loads of kids are graduating uni expecting jobs to be handed to them on a silver platter-entitlement culture is taking over.[/QUOTE]

That's just idiots being idiots.

[QUOTE=niko]My dad is an electrician. He was sent to classes in the air force, he studied later on in classes too. It depends on the complexity of problem you are facing. He didn't learn everything by apprenticing. Con Edison (the provider in NY) sends their electricians to school. You're right, but you're not just because you're a bit too far in one direction.

Not all universities are like you are describing btw. I had the experience you are talking about at times (it's awful) BUT I also had the experience Ridonks is talking about. There were classes that were beyond pointless but some of the unrelated stuff I was asked to take did contain information that was helpful, or just methodology i could use on other things.

[B]You kind of get out of it what you put into it. If you go into it with the idea this is useless crap I'm being forced to do then good luck on it being positive[/B].[/QUOTE]
I agree here.

My whole life I was taught to believe that university is like Ridonks is talking about it as, that getting in to uni was the most important thing, and how I would learn so much there.

Unfortunately when I got there, I guess I expected too much. Teachers where lazy, kids didn't give a phuck, the standards were garbage. Kids all around me seemed to have an attitude that once they have a degree they could just walk in to any job. Hardly anyone worked hard. I was being taught shit that I had already learned in 9th grade in America:facepalm I only succeeded and am doing decently these days BY IGNORING and GOING AGAINST most of the bullshit my professors told us to do.

The kids who my professors constantly lorded over all of us as golden saviors of design are now working in places like Autoglass window repair and Staples as sales assistants, so I am confidant I did the right thing not listening to these guys.


My uni was not great-but I did spend my first year in a very very good school (until I couldnt afford it anymore) and the attitudes of the profs and students was similar.


working in the education sector the previous year, I saw alot more shit. I know I sound like a dumbass on this site sometimes but that's just because I like to troll to get funny reactions. I had to sit in a lot of big wig meetings and read a bunch of reports and I saw first hand how this "Uni degrees for everyone" is just phucking up things.

Too many dumbasses who dont belong in uni are being accepted in to uni, because unis want their student loans. Also these dumbasses are being encouraged to go in to uni whereas in the older days they wouldn't have been, because clearly they are too stupid and unmotivated to handle it.

There is a PC way to say that, but I cant be phucked ^^^

So these dumbasses go to unis and do their best to drag back everything and everyone around them. Courses have to be simplified to accommodate the dumbasses who aren't qualified to be in the course in the first place.

They are fast tracked through the courses, because professors don't want to fail them, because it would mean having to teach them in class for another year.

Eventually all these dumbasses get out of uni with a shiny new degree. Employers give these kids a chance, and because they're unqualified and unmotivated dumbasses, they flounder. These dumbasses have cheapened the university degree for everyone.

ALSO-entitlement culture. Everyone has a degree, a degree doesn't mean shit, but still kids are graduating and expecting to be handed jobs on a silver platter. Then when they don't get the jobs, they moan and complain at their unis because they got low grades, so the unis comply by making the courses even simpler.

Maybe this is only a problem in UK higher education and not the US, I dunno.

[QUOTE=BlackWhiteGreen]Name and shame then, which university? My dad's a lecturer and has never encountered anything like this.

[/QUOTE]
These assholes in vice chancellors groups have tried to get at me before when I have been whistleblowing the bullshit going on in their unis. I don't want this to somehow get back to them by posting the unis on a public forum. I will PM you :)

nick young

only skimmed your latest responses in this thread though they seem to be better thought out than others you have made so kudos!

thought you'd enjoy this

[URL="http://www.theonion.com/articles/grad-student-deconstructs-takeout-menu,85/"]Grad Students Deconstruct Takeout Menu[/URL]

just stumbled across it but its a satirical bite at the point philosophy/humanities in general becomes a giant waste of time. which is true in many cases for many people. i see the same thing; grad students not knowing some pretty elementary shit.

what i maintain is that

a) its useful now even in its current state
b) we can make it more useful by toying around with the structure ie the relationship between universities and internships/co-ops (thats just one example there is all kinds of potential for change)

Lulz.

Feminism slowly being planted in the minds of Muslim women... and soon enough AMISH AND MORMONS.

Gonna be an interesting world.

[QUOTE=Nick Young]I agree here.

My whole life I was taught to believe that university is like Ridonks is talking about it as, that getting in to uni was the most important thing, and how I would learn so much there.

Unfortunately when I got there, I guess I expected too much. Teachers where lazy, kids didn't give a phuck, the standards were garbage. Kids all around me seemed to have an attitude that once they have a degree they could just walk in to any job. Hardly anyone worked hard. I was being taught shit that I had already learned in 9th grade in America:facepalm I only succeeded and am doing decently these days BY IGNORING and GOING AGAINST most of the bullshit my professors told us to do.

The kids who my professors constantly lorded over all of us as golden saviors of design are now working in places like Autoglass window repair and Staples as sales assistants, so I am confidant I did the right thing not listening to these guys.


My uni was not great-but I did spend my first year in a very very good school (until I couldnt afford it anymore) and the attitudes of the profs and students was similar.


working in the education sector the previous year, I saw alot more shit. I know I sound like a dumbass on this site sometimes but that's just because I like to troll to get funny reactions. I had to sit in a lot of big wig meetings and read a bunch of reports and I saw first hand how this "Uni degrees for everyone" is just phucking up things.

Too many dumbasses who dont belong in uni are being accepted in to uni, because unis want their student loans. Also these dumbasses are being encouraged to go in to uni whereas in the older days they wouldn't have been, because clearly they are too stupid and unmotivated to handle it.

There is a PC way to say that, but I cant be phucked ^^^

So these dumbasses go to unis and do their best to drag back everything and everyone around them. Courses have to be simplified to accommodate the dumbasses who aren't qualified to be in the course in the first place.

They are fast tracked through the courses, because professors don't want to fail them, because it would mean having to teach them in class for another year.

Eventually all these dumbasses get out of uni with a shiny new degree. Employers give these kids a chance, and because they're unqualified and unmotivated dumbasses, they flounder. These dumbasses have cheapened the university degree for everyone.

ALSO-entitlement culture. Everyone has a degree, a degree doesn't mean shit, but still kids are graduating and expecting to be handed jobs on a silver platter. Then when they don't get the jobs, they moan and complain at their unis because they got low grades, so the unis comply by making the courses even simpler.

Maybe this is only a problem in UK higher education and not the US, I dunno.[/QUOTE]
It's a problem in the US but it's not everywhere. In the US cost is becoming the problem. So if you are going to school to learn or grow and not for a specific reason or job good luck with that unless you have shit tons of money. College is becoming expensive to a degree that it really is just an elitist institution.

[QUOTE=JEFFERSON MONEY]Lulz.

Feminism slowly being planted in the minds of Muslim women... and soon enough AMISH AND MORMONS.

Gonna be an interesting world.[/QUOTE]

If education and standard of living rises in the Middle East then I can definitely see feminism rising there. But at this rate I don't think so with the rise of radical Islam and with the population liking Sharia Islam(WTF). If you think about it the women in the region were more modern in the 60's, 70's and probably even 80's as the case was for muslim women in Iran, Iraq, Lebanon(don't really know situation today), possibly in parts in Turkey, probably Afghanistan and Pakistan, etc.


But I really don't understand feminists in the US and Western Europe. They protest for the dumbest of reasons and it makes you lose brain cells by listening to them. For example feminists in Norway(or one of those Scandinavian countries) protested that urinals are sexist(wtf?) and they always protest irrelevant and counter productive issues like if an organization fails to have a woman in a leading role or if a male actor says something derogatory about women they all piss their pants.

Not like women are discriminate against in the US either(quite the opposite) with all the laws and quotas that help them succeed. If feminists were really interested in women rights they would protest against Middle Eastern regimes but they probably think that's racist.

[QUOTE=niko]It's a problem in the US but it's not everywhere. In the US cost is becoming the problem. So if you are going to school to learn or grow and not for a specific reason or job good luck with that unless you have shit tons of money. College is becoming expensive to a degree that it really is just an elitist institution.[/QUOTE]

The middle class is shrinking. So it's basically going to be a rich elite class and a poor class. There needs to be a big shake up with the politicians. This corruption and destruction of the country needs to stop. But it won't happen because too many people are lazy and dumb. The mass influx of illegal immigration doesn't help. It benefits the politicians but it hurts everyone else. Many of the rich are the same people that are feminist or creating all of these problems. Supposedly the people that are trying to help us underprivileged. I agree these university's are bullshit. PC is out of control in these universities. It's a shame. I blame the stinking hippies.

[QUOTE=knickballer]If education and standard of living rises in the Middle East then I can definitely see feminism rising there. But at this rate I don't think so with the rise of radical Islam and with the population liking Sharia Islam(WTF). If you think about it the women in the region were more modern in the 60's, 70's and probably even 80's as the case was for muslim women in Iran, Iraq, Lebanon(don't really know situation today), possibly in parts in Turkey, probably Afghanistan and Pakistan, etc.


But I really don't understand feminists in the US and Western Europe. They protest for the dumbest of reasons and it makes you lose brain cells by listening to them. For example feminists in Norway(or one of those Scandinavian countries) protested that urinals are sexist(wtf?) and they always protest irrelevant and counter productive issues like if an organization fails to have a woman in a leading role or if a male actor says something derogatory about women they all piss their pants.

Not like women are discriminate against in the US either(quite the opposite) with all the laws and quotas that help them succeed. If feminists were really interested in women rights they would protest against Middle Eastern regimes but they probably think that's racist.[/QUOTE]
Feminism is nothing more than Marxism pretending to be something else.

[QUOTE=RidonKs]name an apprenticeship as an example and let's take a look at it

i think we probably agree on a common definition of "GAIN EXPERIENCE". what we disagree on is a common definition/understanding of "THEORY".

if i get hooked up as an intern in a big financial institution, a small law firm, a mechanics garage, any small business whatsoever... i will gain crucial experience in the real world. but if i haven't already begun to explore the academic humanities and spent some time interacting with people and discussing the nature of our society, i think i would lose out on important understanding.

of course it's true that i can much more easily be a success in the real world ie. make a living out of an apprenticeship than i can make a living out of an anthropology degree. and in fact if during this apprenticeship i build a real bond with my master/advisor that can blossom and bear fruit over many years, well that's almost definitely going to be far more valuable than whatever relationship i manage to build with my favourite professor who has a few dozen others pursuing the same thing under his expertise.

but what you continue to miss is the value of the principle of higher education; a free exchange of ideas in a formal setting. universities everywhere fall short of that ideal in many ways obviously but it doesn't mean we can't approximate it going forward.[/QUOTE]

great post, as usual.

[QUOTE=NumberSix]Feminism is nothing more than Marxism pretending to be something else.[/QUOTE]
wtf are you talking about

money says you would have a hard time accurately defining both marxism and feminism

[QUOTE=RidonKs]wtf are you talking about

money says you would have a hard time accurately defining both marxism and feminism[/QUOTE]
No, I very easily could, but I'm not going to write an essay just to prove something to you.

i never said you had to write an essay

my only point is that you pretty much equated marxism and feminism, or suggested one falls under the category of the other. which is imo almost completely false.

[QUOTE=RidonKs]i never said you had to write an essay

my only point is that you pretty much equated marxism and feminism, or suggested one falls under the category of the other. which is imo almost completely false.[/QUOTE]
Then you're not very familiar with Marxism or you mistakenly think feminism is simply "we want the same rights as men".

[QUOTE=NumberSix]Then you're not very familiar with Marxism or you mistakenly think feminism is simply "we want the same rights as men".[/QUOTE]
one of us is mistaken on definition. we can either leave it at calling each other wrong or you can offer up your definition since it was you who initially made the claim i had to take issue with, namely that marxism and feminism are... whatever you said. sorta kinda two sides of the same coin or whatever.

not that this conversation is particularly productive, these concepts don't mean a whole lot in the abstract. but i do think you're wrong in what you said and i do think our disagreement is a matter of definition.