All Jordan FG's With Kobe Defending

[QUOTE=3ball]you're right.. both of these guys were good, 2-way players.



Thinking about Finley made me realize the SF's are on a much higher level than the SG's, because Finley doesn't come close to making the SF honorable mentions (those are some nice SF's), but he can sneak in their at SG if someone's being generous.[/QUOTE]

Pretty words. Basically you knew adding so many players was bullshit...as people who knew better than you said so.

There is a reason 3ball leaves a bad taste in your mouth...

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[B][U][SIZE="3"]Best SG's 1984-1998:[/SIZE][/U]
[/B]
Michael Jordan
Clyde Drexler
Anfernee Hardaway
Joe Dumars
Sidney Moncrief
Alvin Robertson
Reggie Miller
Dennis Johnson
Ronaldo Blackman
Mitch Richmond


[I]Honorable Mention[/I]: Reggie Lewis, Latrell Sprewell, Fat Lever, Jeff Hornacek, Byron Scott, Dale Ellis, Derrick McKey, Allan Houston, Eddie Jones, Jeff Malone, Ricky Pierce, Michael Finley, Steve Smith, Jerry Stackhouse, Ron Harper, Reggie Theus.


[B][U][SIZE="3"]Best SF's 1984-1998[/SIZE][/U]
[/B]
Larry Bird
Dr. J
Scottie Pippen
Dominique Wilkins
Bernard King
Adrian Dantley
Alex English
James Worthy
Chris Mullin
Grant Hill

[i]Honorable Mention:[/i] Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Glen Rice, [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=360034][u]Kiki Vandeweghe[/u][/url], Mark Aguirre, Glenn Robinson, Jamaal Mashburn, Detlef Schrempf, Tom Gugliotta, Sean Elliot, Richard Dumas


[B]Defensive Specialists (partial list):[/B] Michael Cooper, Dennis Rodman, George Lynch, Gerald Wilkins, Paul Pressey, Stacey Augmon, Clifford Robinson, Doug Christie, Nate McMillan, Bobby Phills, Anthony Mason
.

[QUOTE=Smoke117]Pretty words. Basically you knew adding so many players was bullshit...as people who knew better than you said so.

There is a reason 3ball leaves a bad taste in your mouth...[/QUOTE]
if it's bullshit, why is finley the only thing you disagree with?

are you always this much of a nitpicker?

also, i think finley should be in there as a legit SG honorable mention anyway - he was a good 2-way player that had pretty high offensive win shares in his prime... and he was good enough to have a very long career.. long enough to successfully ring-chase with the Spurs at the end.

btw, why don't you make a list for 2000-2014 like the one i did for 1984-1998?
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[QUOTE=3ball]if it's bullshit, why is finley the only thing you disagree with?

are you always this much of a nitpicker?

also, i think finley should be in there as a legit SG honorable mention anyway - he was a good 2-way player that had pretty high offensive win shares in his prime.

btw, why don't you make a list for 2000-2014 like the one i did for 1984-1998?[/QUOTE]

...I've never met a man who loves to see himself type with a grin on his face...just like you. That grin is going to be what everyone remembers you with when you are in the mud.

And Eye...we will all meet that mud...some of us sooner than later eh?

[QUOTE=Smoke117]...I've never met a man who loves to see himself type with a grin on his face...just like you. That grin is going to be what everyone remembers you with when you are in the mud.

And Eye...we will all meet that mud...some of not as soon as you eh?[/QUOTE]
rent free

[QUOTE=3ball]rent free[/QUOTE]
:roll:

awww...Milbuck..my foil? maybe if he was wort hat must. He's all out in his agenda tiredsome.

That is what they want me to say no, right. lol. i'm not going to gum it up

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEH **** this stupid pos this means nothing and is nanoying me and lalbhalbha;bljas;dfljkad;, lol yes i typed that nonsense



End of discussion.

This wet back is raging ... Talking to himself. Lay off the tequila por favor

There is a reason why it is hard for most people in the world to think MJ is better than Kobe when his competition has been sub par compared to Bryant's. While being a great player in his era, MJ hasn't shown his greatness in a more sophisticated and evolved era such as Kobe's era.

To name drop all those players of the past, while it is great nostalgic-wise, those players are nowhere near the same level of the 00's shooting guards.

This is why people with knowledge of the game don't think MJ is better than Kobe. His sample size against more athletic defenders of the 00's and beyond is too small.

Gotta love the old "modern athletes are soooo much better" that's why Kobe should be considered better than MJ way of thinking. Let you in on a little secret, the focus on athleticism has made the NBA WORSE in the last 15 years! Why? because basketball like soccer in a lot of ways is better served being played with the focus on skill and fundamentals (Spurs anyone) rather than physical prowess (although it never hurts) That's why a shrimp like Leonel Messi (5'6 145lbs) can be the king of world soccer, SKILL!

Go watch the Western Conference Semifinals and WCF from 1997 and 1998 when the Utah Jazz absolutely dissected one of the most athletic teams of all time in the LA Lakers with Shaq, Eddie Jones, Kobe Bryant, Nick Van Exel, Derek Fisher, Elden Campbell, Robert Horry, Rick Fox ect... All in their 20's and athletic primes. Who were the Jazz three main players? 30 somethings Karl Malone, John Stockton and Jeff Hornacek, LOL!!!! It wasn't' even close, total domination why? SKILL!

That's why the 80's early 90's were so special, perfect blend of SKILL, fundamentals with the athleticism to top it off, and that is the period that Jordan dominated. Oh and back then the league didn't have to tinker with the rules to enhance offenses!

[QUOTE=9erempiree]

his competition has been sub par compared to Bryant's.

[/quote]
Kobe got to play some of the weakest Finals teams of all time for most of his Finals wins (New Jersey twice, and Dwight Howard's Magic once)... and don't bring up how he played the Kings in the WCF because that's one the [I]least athletic[/I] teams ever.

also, out of all the players post-1990, Jordan's playoff competition had better regular season records and defensive ratings than any player post-1990, as discussed in these two threads:

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=255273[/url]
[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=362242[/url]


[QUOTE=9erempiree]

While being a great player in his era, MJ hasn't shown his greatness in a more sophisticated and evolved era such as Kobe's era.

[/QUOTE]
The spacing makes it easier for all offensive players... today's strategy was designed to combat the spacing, so it has no relevance to the no-spacing environments of previous eras.


[QUOTE=9erempiree]

To name drop all those players of the past, while it is great nostalgic-wise, those players are nowhere near the same level of the 00's shooting guards.

[/QUOTE]
Kobe has never faced a top 5 all-time perimeter defender while they were in their prime.. He's never faced a prime Jordan, Pippen, Payton, Moncrief, Alvin Robertson, or Michael Cooper.

These are the best perimeter defenders in history - you can't name 6 guys from Kobe's era to match them... Nor has he ever faced a defender as good as Rodman, who Jordan [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=359858][u]abused[/u][/url].

I'd love to see [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ADAo3W4Hos][u]Sidney Moncrief[/u][/url] guard Kobe... talk about brick city... Could Kobe average 29.3 ppg, 5.8 rebs, and 8.5 assists on 56.5% TS in the playoffs heads-up against him?.. That's way better than Kobe's career playoff averages against ALL defenders, let alone his average going against a top 5 all-time perimeter defender like Moncrief.
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Great point 3Ball!

Not to mention Michael was facing guys like Dumars and Moncrief 12 times in the regular season plus the playoffs and they were part of the powerhouse Pistons and Bucks of the 80's early 90's!

Where did Kobe's main competition at SG play? That's right the most horrible conference of all time, the 2000's East! Vince Carter, Iverson, McGrady, and Lebron, all part of teams that were NOWHERE near the quality of the Pistons and Bucks.

Remember people, basketball is a TEAM game!!! You honestly think Michael and the 90's Bulls would've struggled against the 2000's Raptors, Magic, Sixers and Cavs?!? 75 wins would not be out of realm of that Bulls team in the 2000's

[QUOTE=3ball]Kobe got to play some of the weakest Finals teams of all time for most of his Finals wins (New Jersey twice, and Dwight Howard's Magic once)... and don't bring up how he played the Kings in the WCF because that's one the [I]least athletic[/I] teams ever.

also, out of all the players post-1990, Jordan's playoff competition had better regular season records and defensive ratings than any player post-1990, as discussed in these two threads:

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=255273[/url]
[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=362242[/url]



The spacing makes it easier for all offensive players... today's strategy was designed to combat the spacing, so it has no relevance to the no-spacing environments of previous eras.



Kobe has never faced a top 5 all-time perimeter defender while they were in their prime.. He's never faced a prime Jordan, Pippen, Payton, Moncrief, Alvin Robertson, or Michael Cooper.

These are the best perimeter defenders in history - you can't name 6 guys from Kobe's era to match them... Nor has he ever faced a defender as good as Rodman, who Jordan [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=359858][u]abused[/u][/url].

I'd love to see [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ADAo3W4Hos][u]Sidney Moncrief[/u][/url] guard Kobe... talk about brick city... Could Kobe average 29.3 ppg, 5.8 rebs, and 8.5 assists on 56.5% TS in the playoffs heads-up against him?.. That's way better than Kobe's career playoff averages against ALL defenders, let alone his average going against a top 5 all-time perimeter defender like Moncrief.
.[/QUOTE]

:lol

You're joking right and somehow I missed it. Moncrief is not better than the modern defenders of today. Heck, Tayshaun and specialists such as Bowen are much better.