This YT video explains and shows why the no zone defense was much easier to play in.

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]That doesn't make even a little bit of sense. Do they even let owners/current players make pleas in front of the rules committe let alone part owners/retired players? I know they accept video from GMs/coaches if it involves issues about reffing, but that's as far as I've heard. Sounds like complete hyperbole from Smith, but I'll give him benefit of the doubt. [B]Any direct quotes/minutes from the meeting/other articles mentioning this?[/B][/QUOTE]
:confusedshrug:

You have just as much access to try to find more info as I do.

[QUOTE=Hey Yo]"But there was one that might be bothersome, the zone defense. It was the topic du jour at last month's All-Star Game, and [B]Jordan was making an impassioned plea[/B] before the competition committee that had gathered to consider rules changes to enliven the NBA game. [B]Jordan spoke passionately. If teams were able to play zone defenses, he said, he never would have had the career he did.[/B]

And that was Jordan's argument: He believed that allowing any defense, or a zone, enables teams to gang up on the star. Gone will be the highlight-show moves and plays, the ESPN-ization of the game that others contend has been detrimental to sound play.

[url]http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2001-04-01/sports/0104010375_1_defense-recommendations-nba[/url][/QUOTE]

Great quote :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[QUOTE=Hey Yo]:confusedshrug:

You have just as much access to try to find more info as I do.[/QUOTE]

I have a shitload of articles spanning like 15 years from 1986-2001 documenting the use of zone, rule changes, etc in the NBA... like tons of articles... not one that mentions a retired Jordan using his lunch break to make 'impassioned pleas' in front of the rule committee. First time I'm hearing about that. :oldlol:

Prime example, Dick Motta was an NBA head coach for 25 years and per Stu Jackson was one of the handful of people picked by Jerry Colangelo to work on the rules committee to tackle the rule changes:

[INDENT][B]How was the select committee on rules formed?[/B]

Jackson: The select committee was chaired by Jerry Colangelo, who was designated by David Stern to form the committee. Then Jerry selected what I feel are some of the best basketball minds in the history of the NBA game, guys like Jerry West, [B]Dick Motta[/B], Jack Ramsay and Bob Lanier. The focus was really to try to get as many years of experience on the committee as posible.[/INDENT]

Here's Motta in 1996:

[INDENT][B]What particularly bothers Motta is that many teams try to get away with zone defenses now, content to only be penalized by a technical foul. "[COLOR="Red"]Our teams are zoning now. Rule or no rule[/COLOR]. We're not allowed to use the word `zone' but it's a zone," Motta said.[/B]

-THE NBA HAS THIS RULE ABOUT ILLEGAL DEFENSE, BUT WHO CAN EXPLAIN IT, AND WILL IT EVER GO AWAY? A TWILIGHT ZONE (LA Daily News April 14, 1996 Scott Wolf)[/INDENT]


So one of the handful of guys charged with allowing 'zone' in the league was on the record (direct quote, take note) 5 years earlier in 1996 that teams were disregarding the rule and playing actual zone anyway. Can't find a word about Jordan going in front of Motta or anyone else on the committee to make 'impassioned pleas'. Strange.

[QUOTE=nba_55]Great quote :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:[/QUOTE]
Too bad TRUE zone was never implemented.

It's mostly zone by name.

[QUOTE=Hey Yo][I]Jordan spoke passionately. If teams were able to play zone defenses, he said, he never would have had the career he did.
[/I][/QUOTE]
Forward to years later and the very same man has mocked today's game and players. Because true zone was never applied.

[QUOTE=Hey Yo]If zone isn't effective, then why even have the rule?

Even Jordan and many others said they hated zone. Jordan didn't have to deal with it until he played with the Wizards.[/QUOTE]
Not this AGAIN! For the 343 in the last 3 moths.

KG, McGrady, Duncan talk how they don't like zone, zone becomes legal, they all have career highs in scoring.


That zone!


That goes to show how easy players have it today, they change the rules, including making this badass defensive scheme legal and still players score like never before.

[QUOTE=andgar923]

Forward to years later and the very same man has mocked today's game and players. Because true zone was never applied.

[/QUOTE]
Exactly.. MJ said the ban on hand-checking and physicality would allow him to score [url=http://uproxx.com/dimemag/2010/10/michael-jordan-if-i-played-today-i-could-have-scored-100-points/][u]100 points[/u][/url] - and every single NBA player that played with hand-checking [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=183958][u]agrees with him[/u][/url].

MJ's comments trashing today's post-hand-check defenses are no surprise - there are countless other [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMacMfZYEr4][u]quotes[/u][/url] from players and coaches saying what is common knowledge - that it's harder to score on hand-checking, higher physicality, no-spacing, and paint-camping.

These 4 things more than offset zones, especially since zones are banned inside the paint anyway, due to the defensive 3 seconds rule that forces defenders to stay within [url=http://www.nba.com/nba101/misunderstood_0708.html][u]armslength[/u][/url] of their man at all times while inside the paint - being forced to stay within armslength of your man is the opposite of a zone (it's man-to-man - that's right, the NBA forces defenders to play man-to-man inside the paint.. the zone is only allowed OUTSIDE the paint).
.

[QUOTE=Blue&Orange]Not this AGAIN! For the 343 in the last 3 moths.

KG, McGrady, Duncan talk how they don't like zone, zone becomes legal, they all have career highs in scoring.


That zone!


That goes to show how easy players have it today, they change the rules, including making this badass defensive scheme legal and still players score like never before.[/QUOTE]

This is true. Plenty of players and coaches were panicking over the new rules hindering stars, bringing scoring down, etc... despite everything the people actually changing the rules were saying.

By 2006 when they got rid of handchecking, perimeter players were scoring at levels never before seen league wide.

[INDENT]The game’s elite players did not embrace zone defenses when they were introduced to the N.B.A. in 2001. They saw them as an infringement on the purity of their professional game.

Shaquille O’Neal detested the concept. [B]Kobe Bryant feared his drives to the basket would be hindered by clogged lanes.[/B] So did Vince Carter.

[B]“Hated it,” Carter, of the Nets, said recently. “A lot of guys did. It just changed the style of the game, especially if you played years before that, like myself. I wasn’t too excited about it, but as the years have gone by, the old ways have passed us by. So, you adapt to what’s going on.”[/B]

But the effect of zone defenses, since they became legal in the 2001-2 season, has been noticeable only to the trained eye. [B]The concept of guarding areas instead of players is used fleetingly. It is largely viewed as a gimmick to be avoided in a league in which nearly everyone agrees that each player should be held accountable for guarding his own man.[/B]

To the originators of the change, however, the game is more aesthetically pleasing than before it took effect, when coaches were taking advantage of complex illegal-defense rules that encouraged a stagnant game.

“The game had become heavily reliant on one-on-one and two-on-two basketball,” said Stu Jackson, the league’s executive vice president for basketball operations. “The game was not being played the way most experts felt it should be played and that a more free-flowing, up-tempo type of game should be showcased.”

Dismayed by the slowed game and sluggish scoring, the N.B.A.’s competition committee convened in Phoenix, looking to pick up the pace. Owners endorsed changes that trimmed the time allotted to move the ball to the frontcourt to 8 seconds from 10 and eliminated the illegal-defense rules.

[B]“No one knew what illegal defense was,” said Jerry Colangelo, a former owner of the Suns who was the chairman of the committee. “It was kind of left to the eye of the beholder.”[/B]

Zone defense, widely used in high school and college basketball, was also introduced with a significant caveat. The committee instituted a three-second rule for defenders in order to prevent teams from parking taller players in the post. [B][COLOR="Red"]The goal was to free the lanes and encourage cuts and drives through the paint.[/COLOR][/B]

[B][COLOR="Red"]With those changes, among other factors, offenses have opened up, and scoring has climbed. Teams are averaging 99.7 points a game this season, up from 94.8 in 2000-1, the season before the new rules were introduced. Still, the zone defense has not been embraced in the N.B.A. It is mildly effective in spurts, but often dismissed.[/COLOR][/B]

“When you see it in the league, they do it because they can’t guard somebody,” Quentin Richardson of the Knicks said. “If they’re having a hard time stopping this person or that person or a team in general, and they can’t do anything, teams play zone.”

The laundry list of the zone’s shortcomings in the N.B.A. is relatively deep. Long-range shooters are truer in the N.B.A. than at any other level, and open shots are more easily found in the holes of zone defenses. N.B.A. players are better passers, so it is easier for them to whip the ball around the court to find the open man. Teams can grab offensive rebounds more effectively against a zone because opposing players have no set assignments on block-outs.

Then there’s the stigma.

[B]Asked how much zone defense the Cavaliers used, Cleveland Coach Mike Brown said none.[/B]

“It almost says, Hey, we can’t guard these guys,” Brown said. “To a certain degree, psychologically, it makes you feel like you’re conceding, and it could be a downer if it doesn’t work.”

Beyond that, some say that N.B.A. coaches are hesitant to install a zone defense simply because they do not have a longstanding history with it or an encompassing knowledge of its intricacies.

“You still have a lot of coaches, general managers and assistant coaches that are old-school former players,” Lakers guard Derek Fisher said. “And the league is based on solid man-to-man principles. That’s how they were taught the game. That’s how they grew up playing the game. And it’s difficult trying to teach something that you don’t necessarily have a great feel for yourself.”

Earlier this season, the Denver Nuggets looked to add wrinkles to their defense, and briefly experimented with zone defenses.

“We practiced one for one week, and it was awful,” Nuggets Coach George Karl said.

The Nets, the Golden State Warriors and the Dallas Mavericks are among the teams incorporating zone defenses to throw offenses off their rhythm or to guard an inbounds pass.

“You spend time teaching your zone and cleaning up your zone,” Nets Coach Lawrence Frank said. “But unless you’re totally committed to zone, you’re not going to spend nearly as much time on zone as you do your man defense. There’s not enough time in the N.B.A. workweek.”

When a team switches to a zone, its opponent can become somewhat flustered. Most N.B.A. teams continue using the offense they would have used against a man-to-man defense.

The reason? If teams do not have enough time to practice a zone defense, they surely do not have time to introduce offenses to attack it.

[B]“When teams do zone, offensively, we’re not ready for it,” Atlanta Hawks Coach Mike Woodson said. “That’s the crazy part behind it. Because you don’t see zone that much, when you do see it, you’re caught off guard.”[/B]

Karl said: “My zone offense is to put three guys on the court who can make 3s and have them make a couple.”

But for Jackson, the N.B.A. executive vice president, how much teams use the zone is irrelevant. The goal was to open the floor and encourage a more balanced game.

“Our game today is more five-man orientated,” Jackson said. “The game looks better. There’s not as much standing around.”

[url]http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/28/sports/basketball/28zone.html?_r=0[/url][/INDENT]

Hilarious that from '96-'00 Kobe had [I]one[/I] 40 point game (he was a 3 time all star and 2nd option on a championship squad in that time) and he was worried that the rules would hinder his game. Flash forward to 2006 and :oldlol:

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]So in other words you keep typing paragraphs to say absolutely nothing. 'Partial Zones', 'Shading', etc whatever you want to call it (times were it was known as 'help defense' :oldlol: ), that has existed for many decades. It's not some new never before seen defense that was invented by Tom Thibodeau in 2010. I showed you specific examples of that, you cried cherry pick and complained that the Knicks were the one time-travelling team from the future who went back in time to play that way. :oldlol:

Fact is- there isn't a single defensive scheme or tactic around now that wasn't used in the past. Call it whatever you want, nitpick as much as your heart desires. But the flip side is true- there are plenty of schemes (particularly full court pressure/zones) and tactics (hand checking/camping in the paint) that players now never see. The NBA [I]explicitly[/I] changed the rules to make it easier for perimeter players to score. They weren't trying to hide their intentions. And it worked out exactly the way they planned.[/QUOTE]
It'd be much better if you just said I don't wanna talk about it bro and did just that.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon]It'd be much better if you just said I don't wanna talk about it bro and did just that.[/QUOTE]

Come back when you actually have something to say, bruh.

:biggums:

[QUOTE=Im Still Ballin]

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]

By 2006 when they got rid of handchecking, perimeter players were scoring at levels never before seen league wide.


Zone defense, widely used in high school and college basketball, was also introduced with a significant caveat. The committee instituted a three-second rule for defenders in order to prevent teams from parking taller players in the post. [B][COLOR="Red"]The goal was to free the lanes and encourage cuts and drives through the paint.[/COLOR][/B]

[B][COLOR="Red"]With those changes, among other factors, offenses have opened up, and scoring has climbed. Teams are averaging 99.7 points a game this season, up from 94.8 in 2000-1, the season before the new rules were introduced. Still, the zone defense has not been embraced in the N.B.A. It is mildly effective in spurts, but often dismissed.[/COLOR][/B]

“When you see it in the league, they do it because they can’t guard somebody,” Quentin Richardson of the Knicks said. “If they’re having a hard time stopping this person or that person or a team in general, and they can’t do anything, teams play zone.”

[B]Asked how much zone defense the Cavaliers used, Cleveland Coach Mike Brown said none.[/B]

Hilarious that from '96-'00 Kobe had [I]one[/I] 40 point game (he was a 3 time all star and 2nd option on a championship squad in that time) and he was worried that the rules would hinder his game. Flash forward to 2006 and :oldlol:

[/QUOTE]
Exactly.. When the league was considering allowing zone in 2001, some NBA players were initially disappointed..

But when the NBA instituted new rule changes in 2005, [I]those same players[/I] along with every other player and coach felt the hand-check and physicality bans were far more impactful than zones and had turned defenses soft:

MJ said he'd score [url=http://uproxx.com/dimemag/2010/10/michael-jordan-if-i-played-today-i-could-have-scored-100-points/][u]100 points[/u][/url].. Kobe said the defenses were embarrassingly [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMacMfZYEr4][u]soft[/u][/url].. McGrady said today's players [url=http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1675502-tracy-mcgrady-lebron-james-plays-against-boys-michael-jordan-played-vs-men][u]were boys[/u][/url] compared to the 90's... and on and on and on.. There are [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=183958][u]endless quotes[/u][/url] of how soft the hand-check and physicality ban had made NBA defenses.

Ironically, off-ball players actually benefit THE MOST from spacing, less physicality and enhanced ball movement.. Meanwhile ball-dominators benefit from wider driving lanes and easier penetration from the hand-check ban.. So the only question is which part of Jordan's game would go MORE bananas in today's game - his off-ball game that had the fastest [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=371913][u]isolation pace ever[/u][/url], or his GOAT [url=http://www.complex.com/sports/2014/01/michael-jordan-point-guard-in-1989-posted-triple-double-10-of-11-games][u]ball-dominator game[/u][/url]?

He's the only guy ever that was elite at everything - the guy could morph into Stephan Curry in the 1992 Finals if needed, or score 55 in the playoffs on all [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U06ly1eN4tI][u]JJ Redick catch-and-shoot[/u][/url] - whatever the defense gave him, he'd use [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11021030&postcount=6][u]elite ability[/u][/url] to exploit.
.

Now why would the game be more 5 man orientated now compared to the 90's?

Take a hard long think about it gentlemen