Hakeem the Dream vs Tim Duncan

After scanning thru this thread I realized something,

Spurs fans and 1-2% non Spurs fan think Duncan is > than Hakeem

while the rest of the population believe

Hakeem > Duncan

:cheers:

[url]http://www.nbcsports.com/nba/424876/detail.html[/url]

Another reason why Hak was a superior defender:

Hakeem Olajuwon:
12 seasons with at least 100 steals and 100 blocks
11 seasons with at least 100 steals and 200 blocks
4 seasons finishing top ten in both categories (steals and blocks)
1 season with at least 200 steals 100 blocks

Tim Duncan is nowhere to be found in those in the website listed above. Now we should all know by know the defensive monster Hak was and we all know he was far a superior scorer as well.

:cheers:

I would take Akeem all day! He was a phenom! Unlike any other big man. Is it safe to assume Duncan is succeeding with less than stellar comp? :confusedshrug:

hakeem was entertaining to watch
while TD is fundamentally boring to watch.....

[QUOTE=snipes12]hakeem was entertaining to watch
while TD is fundamentally boring to watch.....[/QUOTE]

I would not say TD is boring, but I agree that most non NBA fans would say that.


My opinion:
Dream better in his prime, but TD already has had a better career.

It's already been said, but Hakeem is a better scorer and defender. Tim Duncan has passing on him and maybe game management.
Tim Duncan is solid at everything, great at nothing (compared all-time)
Hakeem is maybe the best defender at C ever, and a better scorer than all but 3 other C's (Shaq, Wilt, Kareem).
Apart from accolades, Tim Duncan does not compare to the all-time greats.

[QUOTE=Brunch@Five]It's already been said, but Hakeem is a better scorer and defender. Tim Duncan has passing on him and maybe game management.
Tim Duncan is solid at everything, great at nothing (compared all-time)
Hakeem is maybe the best defender at C ever, and a better scorer than all but 3 other C's (Shaq, Wilt, Kareem).
Apart from accolades, Tim Duncan does not compare to the all-time greats.[/QUOTE]

completely false. you are confusing his "boring" play with not being great in your terms. hardly the case. tim duncan is actually a much superior defender than hakeem was.....and that is saying something because hakeem was great. hakeem got a lot of his defensive stats because he gambled a lot and went for huge blocks and highlight plays. duncan is the epitome of a professional ballplayer. he put team and winning first and did everything he could to make that happen.

i have duncan ahead of hakeem.....and it has nothing to do with accolades. duncan was simply a slightly better basketball player. he was a better overall defender....what Duncan does for the spurs defense is really unmatched since bill russell. evidenced by duncan's 2nd best defensive rating of all time. Duncan has a better PER. Was a slightly better rebounder. Passed the ball better....and was flat out a better leader on and off the floor.

hakeem was more flashy....but don't confuse flashier with better. once you start to factor in titles and accolades and advanced stats and mvp awards shares....it becomes even more obvious that duncan was the better player.

[QUOTE=Brunch@Five]It's already been said, but Hakeem is a better scorer and defender. Tim Duncan has passing on him and maybe game management.
Tim Duncan is solid at everything, great at nothing (compared all-time)
Hakeem is maybe the best defender at C ever, and a better scorer than all but 3 other C's (Shaq, Wilt, Kareem).
[B]Apart from accolades, Tim Duncan does not compare to the all-time greats.[/B][/QUOTE]


:oldlol:

Shame on you ginobilli bumping 3 year old threads lol

Sry had to do it lolz was bored

[QUOTE=Yung D-Will]:oldlol:

Shame on you ginobilli bumping 3 year old threads lol

Sry had to do it lolz was bored[/QUOTE]

i didn't realize it was old.....someone bumped it before me....wasn't it you?

Busted :lol

[QUOTE=ginobli2311]completely false. you are confusing his "boring" play with not being great in your terms. hardly the case. tim duncan is actually a much superior defender than hakeem was.....and that is saying something because hakeem was great. hakeem got a lot of his defensive stats because he gambled a lot and went for huge blocks and highlight plays. duncan is the epitome of a professional ballplayer. he put team and winning first and did everything he could to make that happen. [/QUOTE]

:oldlol: @ much superior defender. If you think Duncan was a much superior defender than Hakeem, I don't know what to say. Duncan was less of a gambler, didn't go for fakes and held ground well. He wasn't a better interior defender than Hakeem. Individual defensive rating is useless. Shows that guys like Anderson Varejao (flopper) is a great defender. Was ahead of Duncan in 2009. 2009 Big Z who was a horrific post defender was a top 10 defender in the league. Individual defensive rating is boosted by the type of players you have around you and the scheme you're in. Duncan's defensive rating is helped by the fact that he had Bruce Bowen who was a terrific perimeter defender, Popovich who has a great defensive scheme, DRob in his earlier days who could focus more on defense since Duncan took pressure off of him and great defensive role players in general. You bring up highlight plays, sure, Dream gambled a bit. But, you can't question his overall defense. 2x DPOY. Had several gamewinning defensive plays. And had high IQ. Series-saving block on Starks in game 6 of the '94 finals. Shut down Ewing. Ewing shot 36% from the field cause Dream pushed him away from the basket. And you know what he did to DRob (league MVP), held him to 44% shooting. The Rockets defense started and ended with Hakeem. His willingness and communication on that end was terrific. I don't need stats to believe Dream was a better defender and player than Hakeem. But, if you wanna go there. How about the '05 WCF where Amare literally did whatever he wanted to Duncan. 37 a game. Though, they lost which had something to do with JJ being injured for the first 3 games. How about Duncan not being able to hide himself against the Suns this year? Got lit up by Frye from deep, Hill took him off the dribble and Amare blew by him. Hakeem's perimeter defense was considerably better than Duncan's. I've seen guard some guards on switches and not allow penetration and recover in time to contest their shot. Duncan can't do that to save his life. His defense has been overrated ever since 2006. Ask Robert Horry. The guy whose played with Dream, Duncan and Shaq. And he'll tell you that Dream was better than both of them.



[QUOTE]i have duncan ahead of hakeem.....and it has nothing to do with accolades. duncan was simply a slightly better basketball player. he was a better overall defender....what Duncan does for the spurs defense is really unmatched since bill russell. evidenced by duncan's 2nd best defensive rating of all time. Duncan has a better PER. Was a slightly better rebounder. Passed the ball better....and was flat out a better leader on and off the floor. [/QUOTE]
PER? The same stat that tells me Dirk is better than Garnett, DRob is better than the likes of KAJ, Duncan, Dream etc, Ginobili is better than Drexler, '08 version of Ginobili is better than MVP Bryant? I could go on and on......

'93-96 Hakeem was better than peak Duncan. Really, there is not a single thing that Duncan does better than Olajuwon other than passing off the dribble and finding the open man from the post.. Duncan's decision making is also better considering he makes very few mistakes and knows what to do at the right time. Also, Duncan has never won against a team like the Suns (94-95) or the Jazz (94-95) with the exception of the 2003 Lakers. And the '03 Lakers were not as good as they were in the 3 peat due to various reasons such as fatigue, chemistry issues, lack of depth etc. Granted, Duncan's cast wasn't great in 2003. Olajuwon was also better on offense. His vast array of low post moves were highly effective in getting you in foul trouble or juking you out of your shoes. Howoever, most of his points came from textbook plays like jumphooks and 15 foot Js. Rebounding is about even. Also, Olajuwon being a lot more athletic helps him recover a lot faster on the defensive end while Duncan rarely committs mistakes so Duncan has a edge in decision making or fundamentals.

And really if you're gonna bring up Duncan's 2003 run. I can tell you it doesn't compare to Hakeem's '94 run or '95 run. Duncan's team was about as good as Hakeem's yet his competition was much worse. '03 Suns led by a rookie Amare and Marbury. Note that Duncan choked at the FT line (twice) which led to a Marbury gamewinner. '03 Lakers weren't the same team that won the 3peat like I said before. '03 Mavs which were a horrific defensive team due to personnel and coaching. And Dirk went down in game 3. And the '03 Nets which are possibly the worst team to make the finals. Hakeem's dominance is really on another level.

[QUOTE]hakeem was more flashy....but don't confuse flashier with better. once you start to factor in titles and accolades and advanced stats and mvp awards shares....it becomes even more obvious that duncan was the better player.[/QUOTE]
No, Hakeem was just flashier and better. Whatever you wanna call it. Titles are only cause of Duncan's teams and circumstances. Several people have put a asterik on the Spurs' 99 and 07 rings. '99 was the lockout that severly affected the older teams (Utah, Pacers etc) since the schedule was so tight. East was weak as hell. Lakers were not a great team due to terrible defense, coaching and lack of chemistry. The Knicks had a magical run but they weren't close to a great team. No Ewing either. '07, you had the suspensions which ruined the series. After that it was a cakewalk. Duncan's rings are not more impressive than Hakeem's under context. Accolades have a lot to do with competition which I'm not even gonna get into.

Also, the first time I've seen someone bring up an MVP award share.

Did you really just mention this years playoffs with a Duncan who's like 6 years part his prime:lol

If the 2003 spurs had faced this suns teams it'd be an easy sweep . Prime Duncan defensively was a beast.

I just found that funny but I won't interrupt on your argument lol

[QUOTE=Yung D-Will]Did you really just mention this years playoffs with a Duncan who's like 6 years part his prime:lol [/QUOTE]

Uhh, Duncan is 33 RIGHT NOW. He isn't in his prime but it's not like he's totally done. For all the credit he gets for his longevity and "fundamentally sound play" which is hilarious btw, why shouldn't I bring up his poor peformance... Just for the record, Hakeem at 33 was putting up 27/11/4/3 and was considered the best player in the league by several people (not that I agreed with it). And this was with MJ back.

[QUOTE]If the 2003 spurs had faced this suns teams it'd be an easy sweep . Prime Duncan defensively was a beast.[/QUOTE]
I couldn't give a less of a f*ck if the '03 Spurs would sweep the Suns or not. I'm talkin from an individual scale, not a team scale.

Tim Duncan is not 33...

granted he was for most of the season, but still.