MCU Avengers vs DCCU Superman

[QUOTE=Doctor K]As I mentioned in my post, there is < 10% Superman goes after Dr. Strange 1st with no knowledge on either side. Your whole post was based on previous knowledge and knowing they had to go after Dr. Strange 1st. Without knowledge, highly unlikely the whole team goes after Dr. Strange 1st and foremost, and if they don't, they lose plain and simple.

And if you want to add knowledge and prep time, well Dr. Strange can use his timestone and see ahead to different outcomes of the fight and prep accordingly.


Either way....Avengers prevail[/QUOTE]


sounds like we need a comic book draft

[QUOTE=Doctor K]If Superman also doesn't have any prep-knowledge, and he is as bloodlusted as we have seen him in the movies, how does he win? As soon as Dr. Strange has a second and Superman is a bit pre-occupied (there are many who could occupy him), it's finished.

Suppose he does go to get Dr. Strange 1st, okay, without knowledge the odds of that would be < 10%, and even then the rest of the fight isn't a lock for Superman.

But the other 90+% he doens't go after Strange 1st ? Superman stands almost not chance once he lets Dr. Strange do his thing.[/QUOTE]

I would say it depends on the spell that Dr. Strange uses. Cuz Dr. Strange spells in the movies are kind'a lacking compared to his comic version from what I seen and heard from ppl who Dr. Strange fans.

I would imagine Strange could put him in the mirror dimension, and that would be the end of it. If he has the time stone, he could use it to trap Supes.

If he doesn't do that, then maybe a dimensional portal to potentially cut off one of his limbs? I think the Russo Brothers said/speculate that it wouldn't hurt Thanos tho because he's too durable. If it doesn't hurt Thanos, then it may not hurt Supes. Dr. Strange could separate Supes soul away from his body, but I think that requires him to touch him?

Like I don't think movie Dr. Strange has the ability to kill Supes based upon what we seen? I could be wrong. But he could definitely contain him.

The rest of the cast? I dunno. Street levels don't stand chance. The heavy hitters could possibly hurt him, but won't stop him. Supes has a faster reaction time, too fast, and too strong. Like they should not be able to hit him at all. Of course it never works out that way.

But I almost forgot about something. Could Stormbreaker cut Supes tho? Thanos is one of the most durable creatures in the MCU and it could cut him. So, if it could, it would increase Thor's chances. He could kill Supes with a good hit. If it can't, then they have to rely on magic. I'm just assuming that Supes is more durable than Thanos because Ironman made Thanos bleed. Well, a small cut. I can't imagine Supes getting a cut from IM.

Scarlet Witch could mess up Superman if they go through with her full power. But if she's like she was in Endgame, then probably slow him down. It might restrain him enough for Dr. Strange or Thor to take care of things.

But this is all assuming how fast Supes is going. His reaction time beats them all. He shouldn't really get hit at all, but again, it's never written like that. He could think he could tank some attacks.

[QUOTE=Micku]I would say it depends on the spell that Dr. Strange uses. Cuz Dr. Strange spells in the movies are kind'a lacking compared to his comic version from what I seen and heard from ppl who Dr. Strange fans.

I would imagine Strange could put him in the mirror dimension, and that would be the end of it. If he has the time stone, he could use it to trap Supes.

If he doesn't do that, then maybe a dimensional portal to potentially cut off one of his limbs? I think the Russo Brothers said/speculate that it wouldn't hurt Thanos tho because he's too durable. If it doesn't hurt Thanos, then it may not hurt Supes. Dr. Strange could separate Supes soul away from his body, but I think that requires him to touch him?

Like I don't think movie Dr. Strange has the ability to kill Supes based upon what we seen? I could be wrong. But he could definitely contain him.

The rest of the cast? I dunno. Street levels don't stand chance. The heavy hitters could possibly hurt him, but won't stop him. Supes has a faster reaction time, too fast, and too strong. Like they should not be able to hit him at all. Of course it never works out that way.

But I almost forgot about something. Could Stormbreaker cut Supes tho? Thanos is one of the most durable creatures in the MCU and it could cut him. So, if it could, it would increase Thor's chances. He could kill Supes with a good hit. If it can't, then they have to rely on magic. I'm just assuming that Supes is more durable than Thanos because Ironman made Thanos bleed. Well, a small cut. I can't imagine Supes getting a cut from IM.

Scarlet Witch could mess up Superman if they go through with her full power. But if she's like she was in Endgame, then probably slow him down. It might restrain him enough for Dr. Strange or Thor to take care of things.

But this is all assuming how fast Supes is going. His reaction time beats them all. He shouldn't really get hit at all, but again, it's never written like that. He could think he could tank some attacks.[/QUOTE]

Yeah the Stormbreaker not only could cut Superman, but it is also magic, so it can definitely do damage to Superman enough to take him out. If he goes for the head, it is over for Superman.

Captain Marvel has been shown to travel at speeds faster than Superman so she can keep up and her durability is also top class flying through rockets and not even budging to punches thrown by Thanos.

But yeah Strange uses his time stone to slow Superman (or do whatever) and Thor comes in for the finish at the head and its over.


Superman has a very low likleyhood to win, so many things would have to go right for him to take it. But 99/100 Avengers prevail.

[QUOTE=Doctor K]Yeah the Stormbreaker not only could cut Superman, but it is also magic, so it can definitely do damage to Superman enough to take him out. If he goes for the head, it is over for Superman.

Captain Marvel has been shown to travel at speeds faster than Superman so she can keep up and her durability is also top class flying through rockets and not even budging to punches thrown by Thanos.

But yeah Strange uses his time stone to slow Superman (or do whatever) and Thor comes in for the finish at the head and its over.


Superman has a very low likleyhood to win, so many things would have to go right for him to take it. But 99/100 Avengers prevail.[/QUOTE]

People forget Superman's weakness to magic. Thor could beat him by himself.

[QUOTE=Doctor K]As I mentioned in my post, there is < 10% Superman goes after Dr. Strange 1st with no knowledge on either side. Your whole post was based on previous knowledge and knowing they had to go after Dr. Strange 1st. Without knowledge, highly unlikely the whole team goes after Dr. Strange 1st and foremost, and if they don't, they lose plain and simple.

And if you want to add knowledge and prep time, well Dr. Strange can use his timestone and see ahead to different outcomes of the fight and prep accordingly.


Either way....Avengers prevail[/QUOTE]

Same could be said going the other way. Nobody on Avengers team would know Superman's durability or abilities/powers. Why would Strange or Witch even target Superman from the get-go or Avengers even feel the need to put Hulk, Thor and/or Captain Marvel on Strange/Witch guard duty to protect from Superman/Flash/Shazam/Wonder-woman? They don't know Superman is weak to magic either.

Justice League can figure out quickly who the magic users are based on their opening attacks so they can quickly gauge who to go after. Chances of Avengers figuring out Superman is weak to magic and to go after him first after just the opening act are slim to none. By the time they figure it out, half the Avengers would probably be dead.

[QUOTE=Doctor K]Yeah the Stormbreaker not only could cut Superman, but it is also magic, so it can definitely do damage to Superman enough to take him out. If he goes for the head, it is over for Superman.

Captain Marvel has been shown to travel at speeds faster than Superman so she can keep up and her durability is also top class flying through rockets and not even budging to punches thrown by Thanos.

But yeah Strange uses his time stone to slow Superman (or do whatever) and Thor comes in for the finish at the head and its over.


Superman has a very low likleyhood to win, so many things would have to go right for him to take it. But 99/100 Avengers prevail.[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't say that 99/100 Avengers would prevail. All of them are weaker than their comic book counterpart except for Captain America and maybe Capt Marvel? Supes is too, but he still have too many powers and near invincibility to make most of the Avengers useless against him. It's only like three-five members that could harm him. Thor, Capt Marvel, Hulk (if angry enough), and Strange? Maybe Vision? Scarlet Witch could slow him down, but apparently she'll be more closer to her comic book counter part in the new Strange movie.

With Thor with stormbreaker, I dunno if it could cut Supes. But I suppose so, given the dwarven magic, and it took a full beam of the infinity stones and cut Thanos.

However, I dunno if Thanos is more durable than Supes in the MCU. It doesn't seem like it since Spider and Capt could get Thanos to stagger a little bit with their attacks. Inconsistent writing maybe, but y'know. Supes wouldn't feel it.

With Capt Marvel, I dunno. Perhaps. There is a difference between travel speed and combat speed. She never really moved faster than anyone could react in combat. She never displayed almost like time stopping speed like Flash and Quicksilver. Superman did that. Like Ironman could move faster than sound in flight. But he can't fight as fast and he doesn't have that type of reaction time.

In her binary state, maybe she could deal with him? Need another movie to really say. She did take a headbutt from Thanos like it was nothing, and he kicked the Hulk's ass. Supes could be the same tho.

Not to say the Avengers can't beat Supes tho. If stormbreaker could cut Supes, all they need to do is get one good hit in. And Doctor Strange could trap him. But Supes biggest advantage is that he's too fast. Combine that with him probably stronger than anybody in the MCU, and durability that might be tougher than Thanos then it's hard to really beat him.

Like Wonder Woman reaction time is really good. She could react to bullets as if they were slow motion. And she could move at super sonic speed. Superman made Wonder Woman look super slow.

So, it just depends. As I said before, they really should not be able to hit Superman. He's too fast. And is strong enough to really one shot all the non heavy hitters. Only a few heroes could take a hit, but not for long. If they can't touch Quicksilver or the Flash, they won't be able to touch Superman. What good is the lighting from Thor if Supes just sidesteps away, run super fast up to your face, and poke your eyeballs out before you even realize what happened? Or give you a good few body shots and a upper cut? It would never happen that way cuz nobody writes like that. I don't wann'a give a number on it of the chances.

Lets say if ALL the avengers were there, in a middle of a city. I would say, it depends on who makes the first move. I would say probably the Hulk. He's the most wild and loose. Hulk would try to punch him, Superman may tank it for a bit before he punches the Hulk away or punches him to space. Unless it's professor Hulk then it might be Thor, IM or Capt Marvel.

If superman makes the first move, it just depends on who he targets. I would imagine it would his heat vision or his cold breath. But again, if Strange gets him in the mirror dimension, it's over. Time stone? It's over. If the stormbreaker could cut through Supes and if they find a way to catch him off guard or he believes he could tank it, it's over.

If this was comic version Marvel, then it would be Thor, Hulk, and Strange would be the biggest threats.

[QUOTE=Facepalm]People forget Superman's weakness to magic. Thor could beat him by himself.[/QUOTE]

If Thor can even touch him. Supes too fast.

[QUOTE=Micku]DCCU Supes may not compete. Comic book Superman is different. It just depends on which era you use.

Plus DB is inconsistent. Similar to Supes in that way too.

In Battle of the Gods, Goku fighting with Beerus was about to destroy the Universe. Yet him fighting with Goku Black and Golden Frieza in a powerful form, the discussion did not come up.

Bullets sting base Goku in Super. While in the original DB, kid Goku took a bullet to the face with Bulma and the Red Ribbon Army.

In the manga (I know the manga and anime are different, but to make a point), I think...SSJ1 Vegeta had trouble with lifting 1000 tons right here:
[url]https://www.neoseeker.com/forums/88/t2314034-magetta-weighs-1-000-tons-ssj-vegeta-weak/#&gid=40485064&pid=3076349016[/url]

Depending on which Superman you use, that's nothing. All Star superman (not canon) did 200 Quintillion Ton.
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQAJTfH13Pw[/url]

That's an absurd number. Any SSJ1 form don't stand a chance against that level of strength.

Silver age Supes got him moving like more than 10 planets at once.
[url]https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1464/24615564911_b3a84b30c2_o.jpg[/url]

Striking power is different. Beerus was shown to split a planet with his finger tip. I saw a scan in which Superman in post crisis was able to split one of Saturn's moon apart. This one:
[url]https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11120/111200299/4235136-2608248-____smashing_the_moon_____.jpg[/url]

It does depend on which Superman you use and try to get all the logically inconsistency out of the way with both of them. Movie Supes don't have enough feats to stand against Goku tho.[/QUOTE]

just so we're clear, Goku created a galaxy just by powering up...

[IMG]https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11125/111256849/6309932-goku%20power.png[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]Squirrel girl stalemated galactus according to Spider-Man. If we are treating joke panels and so on as serious Superman beating Darkseid isn

You realize squirrel girl is literally a joke character who had a run being unbeatable as a writer having a laugh right? And not that it matters but the Thanos she beat was a clone. This was after she beat dr.doom and fought galactus.

If we are at the point of joke panels as an argument I

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]If using his speed and strength resulted in no real harm to anyone including a powerless human what are we even talking about?
[/QUOTE]

He wasn't really trying to kill anyone... he wasn't evil, moral-less or particularly unhinged. As I mentioned before, he was still in a fog after being re-animated and wasn't doing much more than defending himself in that standoff after he was inadvertently attacked by cyborg. That was evident by how quickly he snapped back to himself when Lois showed up.

[QUOTE]As I said he has not used what you suggest he has you are simply going off what you know he is capable of and giving him credit for it while not giving his opponent credit for what we know he is capable of.[/QUOTE]

We have quite a bit of info as to what DCCU Superman is capable of; for instance, the fight with the Kryptonians (his first fight against anyone really) and his no-holds-barred fight with Zod that ended up with with Zod dead. We see his speed, strength and flight all in play, even though he was extremely inexperienced and messy. His treatment of Steppenwolf as little more than a rag doll depicted just how powerful he had become at that point and how much control he had over his powers. He used his speed and flight to easily dodge and preempt Steppenwolf's attacks... all with a smile on his face. And he used his strength to toss him around. DCCU Supes has feats.

What is Thanos capable of without the gauntlet? What are his MCU feats?

[QUOTE=Facepalm]People forget Superman's weakness to magic. Thor could beat him by himself.[/QUOTE]
If they fought 100 times? Superman is winning a steady majority 1v1. It won't be a stomp. Thor's durable but he doesn't have an answer for superman's speed feats in the movies.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]You realize squirrel girl is literally a joke character who had a run being unbeatable as a writer having a laugh right? And not that it matters but the Thanos she beat was a clone. This was after she beat dr.doom and fought galactus.[/QUOTE]

Lol, read for me the last things that Watcher says in that panel?

[IMG]http://media.comicbook.com/2018/04/thanos-best-marvel-villain-squirrel-girl-1100644.jpeg[/IMG]

[QUOTE]If we are at the point of joke panels as an argument I’m guessing you realized the Superman argument is mostly based on an unfair premise to begin with which is making him the most dangerous he can possibly be, giving him knowledge of what he must do to win, and leaving his opponents ignorant of the ways to stop him and fighting restrained while he operates in the way he never actually does.[/QUOTE]

Lol, what is MCU Thanos, without the gauntlet, going to be able to accomplish against DCCU Superman. We've seen both their abilities and power levels. Thanos is going to desperately need the gauntlet to win... it's his crutch... that's pretty evident.

[quote=highwhey]
just so we're clear, Goku created a galaxy just by powering up...
[/quote]

Goku didn't create a galaxy. There are no stars, lol. It was his aura. It looks like a spiral galaxy.

In DB heroes, SSB Goku and Vegeta have shown to destroy a galaxy. But it's non canon. I haven't kept up with the Super manga, so I don't know if they have done this yet.

But Goku could beat current movie Superman. He could probably beat the DCAU Superman. Could beat a couple of comic version of Superman, but not all of them. Could beat new 52 Supes pre Doomsday Clock. Perhaps not current Supes, but I gott'a catch up reading on it.

But even then, Goku and Vegeta may have to go beyond SSJ1 to beat current movie Superman. Although striking power is different than lifting, Supes could lift more than SSJ1 Vegeta Super manga.

You see this ship?

[IMG]https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11130/111306544/5910955-giphy.gif[/IMG]

This is could be the NoCGV Svalbard, which weighs about 6,375 tons. Supes doing this with ease on ice. And this building here:

[IMG]https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11130/111306544/6448362-lifts%20entire%20building%20and%20carries%20it%20away%20casually.gif[/IMG]

Could be about 7000 tons.

So, at the very least, Supes could lift 7 times more than SSJ1 Vegeta while he struggled to lift 1000 tons. You can argue about the inconsistency and that they could lift more and I would agree. I think Goku while in ssb was able to move and do a kamehamha in small black hole in the tournament of power. I think the real answer to Goku's strength and stuff is that the creators don't really care about it that much for it make sense. Whatever makes it hype.

And with MCU Thanos, I dunno know if he could beat current movie Supes. W/o the gauntlet anyway. Supes could be stronger, and definitely is faster. I don't really know why they depowered Thanos that much in the movies, but he was still a force to be reckon with.

[QUOTE=Doctor K]Almost all the Avengers dead within the 1st second? What? :oldlol:

If he fought them like he fought the Justice League, he would be finished in NO TIME. Staring the avengers down, and waiting for them to attack, he would get destroyed. He may hold up physically but once Strange uses some magic, Superman is finished. And almost all the Avengers dead with 1 punch? Um lets see, Ironman no. Thor no. Captain Marvel no. Hulk no. Vision no. Heck even Captain America and Black Panther could take a punch from Superman and be alive. But "almost all" is a HUGE stretch for sure lol

Superman has a better chance against Thanos with the infinity gauntlet than the Avengers, and I think he has little to no chance against Thanos with infinity gauntlet.[/QUOTE]

I'm referring to the standard members who were actually Avengers in the MCU universe at the time. BP and Marvel weren't really Avengers. Also... Iron Man, BP and Captain America surviving [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnAw3E_mLh8&t=2m58s"]this[/URL]? And that was inexperienced, first real fight, just learned to fly, Superman.