is lebron a GREAT scorer?

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;14666324]The great flaw in this (even though I know you aren't attempting to make a real argument) is that we are faulting someone as a scorer because they have a great teammate.

Like..how does Kobe being a great scorer mean that Shaq isn't? Just cause they were on the same team? That doesn't make any sense.[/QUOTE]


Players that can carry the scoring load need less help... it isn't complicated but you're pretending it is.

Players that can carry the scoring load allow GM's to build a team of cheap defenders instead of needing to find expensive, star scoring help.

When Lebron had secondary scorers at sidekick like Ingram, Jamison, Mo or Hughes - he got destroyed - it wasn't nearly enough help because it required Lebron to carry the scoring load, and he's too ball-dominant to carry the scoring load over top teams.

At carry-job volumes, plodding ball-dominators like Lebron, Shaq or Magic lack sufficient brand of ball to beat top teams, so they needed all-time scoring help like Kareem, Kobe and Wade.

Otoh, expert jumpshooters like Curry, MJ or Kobe can carry the scoring load with sufficient brand to beat top teams and therefore win with secondary-producers like Wiggins or Pippen.

[I][U][SIZE=5]Thread Cliffs:[/SIZE][/U][/I] is LeBron is good shooter? Is water wet?

[QUOTE=AirBonner;14666470][I][U][SIZE=5]Thread Cliffs:[/SIZE][/U][/I] is LeBron is good shooter? Is water wet?[/QUOTE]


He literally avoids contested jumpers and cannot make them

So even his efficiency is manufactured by a high proportion of dribble-heavy rim attacks that yield inferior brand of ball and chemistry (inferior teams) than expert jumpshooting, which fosters better chemistry and brand of ball, aka ball movement..

Ultimately, since Lebron can't beat top teams by carrying the scoring load (too ball-dominant), he needs more scoring help - his weak brand of ball needs more help..

[QUOTE=3ba11;14666458]Players that can carry the scoring load need less help... it isn't complicated but you're pretending it is.

Players that can carry the scoring load allow GM's to build a team of cheap defenders instead of needing to find expensive, star scoring help.

When Lebron had secondary scorers at sidekick like Ingram, Jamison, Mo or Hughes - he got destroyed - it wasn't nearly enough help because it required Lebron to carry the scoring load, and he's too ball-dominant to carry the scoring load over top teams.

At carry-job volumes, plodding ball-dominators like Lebron, Shaq or Magic lack sufficient brand of ball to beat top teams, so they needed all-time scoring help like Kareem, Kobe and Wade.

Otoh, expert jumpshooters like Curry, MJ or Kobe can carry the scoring load with sufficient brand to beat top teams and therefore win with secondary-producers like Wiggins or Pippen.[/QUOTE]

My point, which of course you missed or purposely ignored, is about the difference between someone being in the situation to do something and another not being in that situation but being able to do it if they were.

Shaq carried that load you discuss in 2000, proving he could do it. Did Kobe getting way better the next year then mean that Shaq just couldn’t do it anymore?

Did Parker getting little better at scoring make Duncan worse at it?

[QUOTE=3ba11;14666458]Players that can carry the scoring load need less help... it isn't complicated but you're pretending it is.

Players that can carry the scoring load allow GM's to build a team of cheap defenders instead of needing to find expensive, star scoring help.

When Lebron had secondary scorers at sidekick like Ingram, Jamison, Mo or Hughes - he got destroyed - it wasn't nearly enough help because it required Lebron to carry the scoring load, and he's too ball-dominant to carry the scoring load over top teams.

At carry-job volumes, plodding ball-dominators like Lebron, Shaq or Magic lack sufficient brand of ball to beat top teams, so they needed all-time scoring help like Kareem, Kobe and Wade.

Otoh, expert jumpshooters like Curry, MJ or Kobe can carry the scoring load with sufficient brand to beat top teams and therefore win with secondary-producers like Wiggins or Pippen.[/QUOTE]

Your fallacy is that you believe that there's only one way to win titles and that's with a guy "caring the scoring load" while we've seen championship teams with 20ppg topscorers.

You're building your whole argument around something as circumstancial as winning championships. If the 80s Celtics played in the 90s and took 3 championship off of the Bulls would Jordan's brand of basketball suddenly be worse? Would it make him a worse basketball player without playing any different?

Why do you penalize Shaq and Lebron for something they have no say in? If the Warriors never existed Lebron probably has 7 championships. Would that make his brand of ball suddenly better?

Your favourite point is defensive attention. Yet Shaq faced more attention during the three peat years than Jordan ever faced and you're saying he had a player facing equal attention. Just no. Kobe was doubled less and barely had a third man on him on drives. Opponents clearly game planned against Shaq and not as much Kobe.

[QUOTE=Overdrive;14666486]

Your fallacy is that you believe [B]that there's only one way to win titles[/B] and that's with a guy "caring the scoring load" while we've seen championship teams with 20ppg topscorers.


[/quote]


We're comparing title quality

Accordingly, guys like Magic or Lebron that won with elite producers like Kareem, AD and Wade have lower ring quality than guys like Curry that won with secondary producers like Klay or Wiggins.

Winning with secondary producers is tougher because it requires defeating maximum defensive attention (carrying scoring load)

We saw ball-dominators like Lebron or Magic get their doors blown off when they tried to carry the scoring load (too ball-dominant), so this inferior brand of ball requires more scoring help.. Otoh, expert jumpshooters like Curry or MJ can maintain ball movement and beat top teams at carry-job volumes, thus requiring less scoring help (they need less help).

Btw, in the 01' and 02' Playoffs, Shaq had equal-scoring partner to attract equal defensive attention, so he didn't defeat maximum defensive attention like Jordan did for all 6 rings... Jordan averaged 10 more than his sidekick for the playoffs and Finals of all title runs.

[QUOTE=3ba11;14666524]D-uh-uhhhh I'm retarded[/QUOTE]
:roll:

[QUOTE=RRR3;14666525]:roll:[/QUOTE]

What's tougher - winning with Kareem and AD or winning with Wiggins?

So Curry > Magic and Lebron because he could win with less, while they got spanked with less, aka upset losses in 1990, 1991, 2009, 2010

[QUOTE=3ba11;14666526]D-duh-uhhh-uhhhh me stupid hehehe d-duhhhh[/QUOTE]
:yaohappy:

[QUOTE=3ba11;14666524]We're comparing title quality

Accordingly, guys like Magic or Lebron that won with elite producers like Kareem, AD and Wade have lower ring quality than guys like Curry that won with secondary producers like Klay or Wiggins.

Winning with secondary producers is tougher because it requires defeating maximum defensive attention (carrying scoring load)

We saw ball-dominators like Lebron or Magic get their doors blown off when they tried to carry the scoring load (too ball-dominant), so this inferior brand of ball requires more scoring help.. Otoh, expert jumpshooters like Curry or MJ can maintain ball movement and beat top teams at carry-job volumes, thus requiring less scoring help (they need less help).

Btw, in the 01' and 02' Playoffs, Shaq had equal-scoring partner to attract equal defensive attention, so he didn't defeat maximum defensive attention like Jordan did for all 6 rings... Jordan averaged 10 more than his sidekick for the playoffs and Finals of all title runs.[/QUOTE]

You don't want to go down the "title quality" road, when Jordan played won in an era without a 2nd super team.

I don't think you even know what your own bullshitbingo words mean. How can Kobe face equal defensive attention when teams doubled and tripled Shaq constantly, while Kobe at times was doubled, but mostly guarded 1v1? Difference in ppg doesn't say anything about the attention given.

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14665382]Today I learned Bird, Hakeem, Dirk, Barkley & Giannis were not great scorers :applause:[/QUOTE]

Jordan stans have lost the argument on this one.

LeBron getting the all time scoring record will hurt them deeply. More deeply than any championship Lebron has ever won.

[QUOTE=3ba11;14666526]What's tougher - winning with Kareem and AD or winning with Wiggins?

So Curry > Magic and Lebron because he could win with less, while they got spanked with less, aka upset losses in 1990, 1991, 2009, 2010[/QUOTE]

try harder fatboy

IS THE GUY WITH THE MOST POINTS EVER GOOD AT POINTS?!!1

:lol :hammerhead: