I still think Jokic is underrated

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;14741821]You are saying that a soon to be 3peat mvp is underrated because white people don't appreciate a white person.

You are an idiot.[/QUOTE]

You struggle with reading comprehension. Let me post the same thing again - it's because he is [B]not American[/B], secondarily [B]not a black American[/B], and third he is [B]unathletic[/B]. Jokic also doesn't fit the [B]NBA player culture[/B] AT ALL.

Here is a good example - Jokic, the potential b2b2b MVP - is not even top 15 in Jersey sales. Maybe that's an easy fact for you to understand to show that he is underappreciated by the NBA fan base. Also Jokic does not "fit in" with the average NBA player as well...he just has a way different background (dude might like messing around with horses more than basketball).

What do shirt sales have to do with him being underrated? He's not popular sure, but many NBA fans and analysts realize he's one of the best players in the league.

[QUOTE=hold this L;14741936]What do shirt sales have to do with him being underrated? He's not popular sure, but many NBA fans and analysts realize he's one of the best players in the league.[/QUOTE]

Him not being popular automatically underrates him among the masses of NBA fans. Why do you think a ton of people have Kobe Bryant as the second best player of all time? It's because of his insane popularity. People like us know Kobe is not even top five all time. Sure the basketball media and people like us know how good Jokic is, but he is getting MAJOR hate from the average NBA fan because they don't think he deserves three MVPS and a lot of people think he didn't even deserve two.

Now we got Perk actively being racist on national television regarding Jokic. Shit is sad.

Jokic is GOATED. Best offensive player in the league for me and easily one of the best all time.

Dude has been a superstar every playoff run unlike the Sixers center.

Because Jokic lacks the [B]footwork, athletic build, finesse, talent/moves[/B] that many top offensive centers have had, his game depends on a few things: craftiness, precise shooting, and using his body to create distance from the defender. On the latter, Jokic depends on white refs to let him get away with ALOT of physical contact that would likely be called as a foul were he not white. I'd say that accounts for about 1/3rd of his game. He is still a great player but not an all-time great player because he is getting a major handout from the refs, which makes up for his lack of offensive skill.

I still admire his passing ability and versatility on the offensive end. Too slow to be an effective rim protector and defensive presence.

[QUOTE=bdonovan;14772144]Because Jokic lacks the [B]footwork, athletic build, finesse, talent/moves[/B] that many top offensive centers have had, his game depends on a few things: craftiness, precise shooting, and using his body to create distance from the defender. On the latter, Jokic depends on white refs to let him get away with ALOT of physical contact that would likely be called as a foul were he not white. I'd say that accounts for about 1/3rd of his game. He is still a great player but not an all-time great player because he is getting a major handout from the refs, which makes up for his lack of offensive skill.

I still admire his passing ability and versatility on the offensive end. Too slow to be an effective rim protector and defensive presence.[/QUOTE]

He is absolutely an all-time great player. Beyond absurd to claim he isn't. He's going to walk into the hall if he retired right this moment.

[QUOTE=bdonovan;14772144]Because Jokic lacks the [B]footwork, athletic build, finesse, talent/moves[/B] that many top offensive centers have had, his game depends on a few things: craftiness, precise shooting, and using his body to create distance from the defender. On the latter, Jokic depends on white refs to let him get away with ALOT of physical contact that would likely be called as a foul were he not white. I'd say that accounts for about 1/3rd of his game. He is still a great player but not an all-time great player because he is getting a major handout from the refs, which makes up for his lack of offensive skill.

I still admire his passing ability and versatility on the offensive end. Too slow to be an effective rim protector and defensive presence.[/QUOTE]
Shut up fakkit

[QUOTE=bdonovan;14772144]Because Jokic lacks the [B]footwork, athletic build, finesse, talent/moves[/B] that many top offensive centers have had, his game depends on a few things: craftiness, precise shooting, and using his body to create distance from the defender. On the latter, Jokic depends on white refs to let him get away with ALOT of physical contact that would likely be called as a foul were he not white. I'd say that accounts for about 1/3rd of his game. He is still a great player but not an all-time great player because he is getting a major handout from the refs, which makes up for his lack of offensive skill.

I still admire his passing ability and versatility on the offensive end. Too slow to be an effective rim protector and defensive presence.[/QUOTE]

This is one of the most bizarre and off-base posts I've seen.

Bdumbnavan makes up negative things about every player besides his hero Curry. He also claims Durant is a negative impact player.

[QUOTE=RRR3;14772150]Bdumbnavan makes up negative things about every player besides his hero Curry. He also claims Durant is a negative impact player.[/QUOTE]

Tell me where I made something up.

He has not put the time in the gym to develop strong muscle tone nor top conditioning.

His footwork is nothing compared to Hakeem or Tim Duncan; oftentimes he turns in circles and very clearly moves his pivot foot but is never called for traveling.

His defense is subpar and he's not a rim protector like a lot of the All Time Great centers who were excellent two way players.

He is not fast and has slow reflexes.

He lacks a go-to shot like Kareem's hook shot or Ewing's fade away. A lot of his baskets come from knocking the defender backwards, not beating them to the position because he lacks the speed of a Hakeem or even a Shaquille O'neal.

I said he was a great player not all time great, but that's clearly enough for people to lose their mind.

[QUOTE=bdonovan;14772160]Tell me where I made something up.

He has not put the time in the gym to develop strong muscle tone nor top conditioning.

His footwork is nothing compared to Hakeem or Tim Duncan; oftentimes he turns in circles and very clearly moves his pivot foot but is never called for traveling.

His defense is subpar and he's not a rim protector like a lot of the All Time Great centers who were excellent two way players.

He is not fast and has slow reflexes.

He lacks a go-to shot like Kareem's hook shot or Ewing's fade away. A lot of his baskets come from knocking the defender backwards, not beating them to the position because he lacks the speed of a Hakeem or even a Shaquille O'neal.

I said he was a great player not all time great, but that's clearly enough for people to lose their mind.[/QUOTE]

Because he plays the game differently than the standard of the position doesn't mean as much to me. He has incredible touch around the basket with both hands, is one of the best shooters the position has ever seen, and is certainly the best passer. On top of that he has the IQ to know when and where to attack and get himself and his teammates in the best position possible.

You're talking purely about the bag (which Jokic is not lacking) and ignoring the big picture of what his play does during a game.

[QUOTE=bdonovan;14772160]Tell me where I made something up.

He has not put the time in the gym to develop strong muscle tone nor top conditioning.

His footwork is nothing compared to Hakeem or Tim Duncan; oftentimes he turns in circles and very clearly moves his pivot foot but is never called for traveling.

His defense is subpar and he's not a rim protector like a lot of the All Time Great centers who were excellent two way players.

He is not fast and has slow reflexes.

He lacks a go-to shot like Kareem's hook shot or Ewing's fade away. A lot of his baskets come from knocking the defender backwards, not beating them to the position because he lacks the speed of a Hakeem or even a Shaquille O'neal.

I said he was a great player not all time great, but that's clearly enough for people to lose their mind.[/QUOTE]
You said Jokic lacks footwork, moves and finesse which no one who’s ever watched him play would say unless they were seething with rage the whole time they watched him. Reminds me of LeBron haters saying he can’t post up.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;14772166]Because he plays the game differently than the standard of the position doesn't mean as much to me. He has incredible touch around the basket with both hands, is one of the best shooters the position has ever seen, and is certainly the best passer. On top of that he has the IQ to know when and where to attack and get himself and his teammates in the best position possible.

You're talking purely about the bag (which Jokic is not lacking) and ignoring the big picture of what his play does during a game.[/QUOTE]

I agree with that. He does make his teammates better which is a major plus and puts him above stars who simply score.

However, it seems people completely ignore his weaknesses when talking about him. I really wonder whether the Nuggets can with Jokic as their lead and it's not a "more help" thing; if he cant' win it all, with the pieces he has around him, I doubt he is an all-time great.

[QUOTE=RRR3;14772167]You said Jokic lacks footwork, moves and finesse which no one who’s ever watched him play would say unless they were seething with rage the whole time they watched him. Reminds me of LeBron haters saying he can’t post up.[/QUOTE]

Maybe I need to watch more games with him but the ones I've seen, I don't know that I would classify it that way. He creates separation with his size, and then is quick to get a shot off. He uses intelligence and timing more than practiced skill or athleticism that comes from physical training. When I say he lacks those 3 things above, compare him to videos of Hakeem Olajuwon some time.