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[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;15031030]I've always said Bird had several pedestrian playoff performances for an ATG/top 10 player throughout his career. He's lucky he didn't play in the social media era where that shit would be far more documented and distributed amongst fans.[/QUOTE]
He was a regular season phenom and serial playoff choker until 1984. And most people who actually watched back then say Moses was better in the early 80’s, just way less marketable than Bird vs Magic.
[QUOTE=j3lademaster;15031032]He was a regular season phenom and serial playoff choker until 1984. And most people who actually watched back then say Moses was better in the early 80’s, just way less marketable than Bird vs Magic.[/QUOTE]
Even during his peak years he still had some pretty meh performances.
1985 ECF: 21/7/6 on 50%TS
1985 Finals: 24/9/5 on 53%TS
1987 Finals: 24/10/6 on 53%TS; 20/10/6 on 49%TS over the final 3 games
1988 ECF: 20/12/6 on 45%TS
LeBron would get eviscerated for series like that, and that's not even factoring in all the other very pedestrian performances he had throughout the first 4 years of his career. He gets a massive pass for that.
[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;15031036]Even during his peak years he still had some pretty meh performances.
1985 ECF: 21/7/6 on 50%TS
1985 Finals: 24/9/5 on 53%TS
1987 Finals: 24/10/6 on 53%TS; 20/10/6 on 49%TS over the final 3 games
1988 ECF: 20/12/6 on 45%TS
LeBron would get eviscerated for series like that, and that's not even factoring in all the other very pedestrian performances he had throughout the first 4 years of his career. He gets a massive pass for that.[/QUOTE]
Lebron would get eviscerated for averaging 28/8/8 on 60 ts losing in the second round at age 40. His expectations are unreal. Joker got destroyed for averaging 28/14/6 on 48/33/81 against a historically great defense that was willing to give up open corner 3’s in 2025 in order to triple him in the paint.
I'm a huge advocate for Yolk as GOAT. But... we did see old Dwight rattle him in 2020. What happens in the distant past where there were lots of Dwight physical types? The efficiency and production wouldn't be the same. And Kobes game wasnt tame. Hed eviscerate the current era harder than Jokic has.
[QUOTE=tpols;15031066]I'm a huge advocate for Yolk as GOAT. But... we did see old Dwight rattle him in 2020. What happens in the distant past where there were lots of Dwight physical types? The efficiency and production wouldn't be the same. And Kobes game wasnt tame. Hed eviscerate the current era harder than Jokic has.[/QUOTE]
Why do you keep repeating this nonsense? Jokic scored 22 PPG with a 61.6% TS against the Lakers which was more than he scored in the regular season. He just wasn't as aggressive looking to score back then.
And what were the names of these "Dwight physical types" that were allegedly so common years ago?
[QUOTE=tontoz;15031067]Why do you keep repeating this nonsense? Jokic scored 22 PPG with a 61.6% TS against the Lakers which was more than he scored in the regular season. He just wasn't as aggressive looking to score back then.
And what were the names of these "Dwight physical types" that were allegedly so common years ago?[/QUOTE]
22 ppg ain't enough chico.
Kobe on his worst day does that.
[QUOTE=tpols;15031072]22 ppg ain't enough chico.
Kobe on his worst day does that.[/QUOTE]
Yeah on 45%TS maybe.
[QUOTE=Overdrive;15031074]Yeah on 45%TS maybe.[/QUOTE]
Check previous posts. I'm a huge Jokic fan but he doesn't do what he does against other bruisers, a crowded paint, and a silent whistle.
Kobe? Ultimate smash mouth dunker, triangle orcestrator, and midrange clutch assassin.
:pimp:
Hold these cajones vato.
[QUOTE=tpols;15031072]22 ppg ain't enough chico.
Kobe on his worst day does that.[/QUOTE]
It was 2 points more than the regular season. He came into the league as a pass first player. It wasn't until the following season that he looked to score more aggressively.
So who were these "Dwight physical types" you keep talking about? Do they have names?
Bawler ran away. Triggered :roll:
[QUOTE=Overdrive;15031074]Yeah on 45%TS maybe.[/QUOTE]
:roll:
[QUOTE=Baller234;15031010]Guy said "even Bird" like Bird isn't unquestionably better than Yolk. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
At their peaks, Jokic is better to be honest.
[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15031129]At their peaks, Jokic is better to be honest.[/QUOTE]
Did you see him say bird could be ranked second all time? :oldlol: Dude is clueless.
Things I've seen said about Yolk on this forum of so called experts:
- He's the greatest offensive player of all time, better than Jordan.
- He's in the discussion for greatest scorer of all time, easily better than Kobe.
- He's the greatest passer of all time, better than Magic.
- Larry Bird can't shine his shoes and there's no debate.
And this is all in like the last month or so.
And idiots wonder why I don't respond to every single asinine post where they pull some retarded frankenstein number out of their ass to prove their ridiculous point.
Might as well just close the book then. Yolk is the clear of goat of goats. He doesn't need to do anything further to prove himself. If he plays the rest of his days and never sniffs a conference final again, the "data" proves he's still the goat. The data that doesn't take era, circumstances OR intangibles into account. I guess Lebron made that "forever king" commercial a little too early. Even the chosen one is no match for the efficient one.
And while we're at it let's totally ignore the opinion of some of the greatest players and coaches to ever exist, because they're all just retarded stans who don't know how to decipher the data.
[QUOTE=Baller234;15031171]- He's the greatest offensive player of all time, better than Jordan.[/QUOTE]
Jordan and Jokic have a great argument for #1.
[QUOTE=Baller234;15031171]- He's in the discussion for greatest scorer of all time, easily better than Kobe. [/QUOTE]
He's a top tier scorer with legendary efficiency, but I wouldn't put him in the discussion for best scorer ever
[QUOTE=Baller234;15031171]- He's the greatest passer of all time, better than Magic.[/QUOTE]
Magic, Jokic, & Nash all have great arguments for greatest passer ever. Those are my top 3.
[QUOTE=Baller234;15031171]- Larry Bird can't shine his shoes and there's no debate.[/QUOTE]
Jokic is clearly a better offensive player & Bird's defense certainly isn't going to make up ground to put him ahead of Jokic as a player overall. Give me Jokic.