NDEs...(Near Death Experiences)

[B]dr. hee[/B]...your consciousness and your brain are separate, it is VERY common for them to report things that happened in rooms and locations that their body was not located in and verified as true 9girl can tell her parents their entire conversation while they were in the hospital cafeteria and she was flat-lining in a bed)...furthermore it has been shown that NDEs can happen WITHOUT BRAIN WAVES (meaning it is impossible they are dreamed)...almost all NDEers come back saying that they have lost memory of most of their NDE, that is very normal...and it seems obvious to me that many would lose memory of them all together...

[url]http://www.near-death.com/experiences/research27.html[/url]

^^^ there is a study done by NDEers about memory of their NDE...I suggest you read it.


[QUOTE]But idiots who "believe" and have their mind already made up[/QUOTE]

the people that have made up their mind on this are the NDEers themselves...tell me this, how come all of the skeptics on this act as though they know more on this subject that the actual NDEers do? How come NOT A SINGLE ONE accepts the theory it is a dream or a brain trip? These people are trying their hardest to tell you guys this is realer than real but you refuse to listen to them...just give them a listen.

[QUOTE]Is the same true for other things, too? I can't remember being ever abducted by aliens. Doesn't mean it didn't happen, right? Can you prove to me that Santa Clause never brought you presents? Can you prove that there aren't invisible fairies around your bed at night? Just because you can't see them doesn't mean they aren't there... [/QUOTE]
Alien abductions are completely different than NDEs because ANYONE can claim to have been abducted and it has been shown the majority of them are BS (some may be very real though, I haven't written them off), but with NDEs you have to have flat-lined in a hospital. You have to have DIED. For the most part it is accepted by doctors and science that they are a very real occurrence, the similarities are extreme and are too much to suggest everyone decides to lie right away when they wake up in ER.

the Santa and fairy stuff is silly and has nothing to do with anything, and I think I probably could actually prove that Santa is fake and doesn't bring me presents...

[QUOTE=ProfessorMurder]So do you believe in Mormonism then too? Joseph Smith's proof is as impressive and credible as this doctor's.[/QUOTE]
are there literally thousands or millions of others that had the same experience as Joseph Smith?

[QUOTE=-p.tiddy-][url]http://www.near-death.com/experiences/research27.html[/url]

^^^ there is a study done by NDEers about memory of their NDE...I suggest you read it.[/QUOTE]

I don't know what you think a study is, but that is not one.

[QUOTE=-p.tiddy-]are there literally thousands or millions of others that had the same experience as Joseph Smith?[/QUOTE]

If the research methodology is poor quality (which it is because all of the data is anecdotal) it doesn't matter if it is one person with the experience or a billion. People are wrong about things all of the time but appealing to the majority is just as fallacious as appealing to authority (which you did agree with when we were talking about Einstein and Hawking's beliefs earlier). As much as you like to think there isn't, there are massive differences between the stories. The neurosurgeon Dr Eben had a rather strange time in the "after-life" compared to say Pam Reynolds, some things were the same, but some things were glaringly different.

[QUOTE=miller-time]I don't know what you think a study is, but that is not one.[/QUOTE]
It is a gathering of quotes and input from many different NDEers...how is that not a study ?



[QUOTE=miller-time]If the research methodology is poor quality (which it is because all of the data is anecdotal) it doesn't matter if it is one person with the experience or a billion. People are wrong about things all of the time but appealing to the majority is just as fallacious as appealing to authority (which you did agree with when we were talking about Einstein and Hawking's beliefs earlier). As much as you like to think there isn't, there are massive differences between the stories. The neurosurgeon Dr Eben had a rather strange time in the "after-life" compared to say Pam Reynolds, some things were the same, but some things were glaringly different.[/QUOTE]
the majority of them are not at all 'massively different'...you die, you float around your body for a while maybe minutes, hours, or even days, perhaps you travel to other rooms or even other cities, then you seen a tunnel with a light at the end, then you have a flash back of your entire life much of which you forgot you experienced, you can literally feel all of the pain and suffering you caused others as well as enjoy the love and happiness you gave to others, you notice the absence of "time", a second and a million years feel like the same thing, you meet spirits that you recognize and you understand this place is where you were before life on Earth, it feels very familiar...the spirits have no face or sexual orientation, nor can they speak any language, but you know what they are saying and you know exactly who they are. You are shown "the void", you are shown "God" who is really just a huge composite of EVERYTHING and not one single entity...you feel an overwhelming sensation of "love" and realize that is all that matters, you are disgusted with many of your actions on Earth and embarrassed...You are told many things about how and why everything is the way it is, many can see events in the future as well as the past, many report seeing their kids that haven't been born yet...you then realize that you have work to do on Earth and beg for them to let you back in your body which happens in all NDE cases obviously.

that is a quick break down of a typical NDE


There are slight differences between them but for the most part they follow that structure regardless of religion, age, race, or anything. Something MASSIVELY different than that would be like the dream you had last night compared to the dream you are going to have tonight. Where in one dream there was a clown fcking your mom and in the next dream you were riding a tiger holding a machine gun.

[QUOTE]It is a gathering of quotes and input from many different NDEers...how is that not a study ?[/QUOTE]
because by that logic, a thread on ISH would be a "study" on whatever topic happens to be under discussion.

Miller...how come there isn't a single example of someone who has had an NDE and thinks it could have been a 'brain trip'?

these people 'KNOW' there is an afterlife...to them it is fact...to ALL OF THEM

Miller, if you had an NDE, there is a 100% chance you would come back saying [I]"nevermind I was wrong, they are definitely real"[/I]

you think you are any different than they are? that somehow you would have the insight to know it was just your brain messin with you? There are literally hundreds if not thousands of atheists that have had NDEs and become theist because of it...

[QUOTE=RidonKs]because by that logic, a thread on ISH would be a "study" on whatever topic happens to be under discussion.[/QUOTE]
okay, I think if there are 100 people all breaking down what LeBron did in his last game that it qualifies as a 'study'...even though it isn't organized or presented like this one is

actually for a fair comparison it would be the players that played all discussing and breaking down the game...not just 'fans'

[QUOTE=-p.tiddy-]It is a gathering of quotes and input from many different NDEers...how is that not a study ?[/QUOTE]

Because that is just a collection of stories. A study requires you to try and disprove them, not to assume they are true and put them in a drawer. I can go to India and probably find a million people that claim to have seen or interacted with Krishna with absolute sincerity, but if I don't try and test the legitimacy of those stories (by attempting to disprove them) what have I done? Taken notes... not a study.

[QUOTE=-p.tiddy-]Miller...how come there isn't a single example of someone who has had an NDE and thinks it could have been a 'brain trip'?

these people 'KNOW' there is an afterlife...to them it is fact...to ALL OF THEM

[B]Miller, if you had an NDE, there is a 100% chance you would come back saying [I]"nevermind I was wrong, they are definitely real"[/I]
[/B]
you think you are any different than they are? that somehow you would have the insight to know it was just your brain messin with you? There are literally hundreds if not thousands of atheists that have had NDEs and become theist because of it...[/QUOTE]
What a worthless post. Are you serious? You can't be this stupid.

[QUOTE=Jello]What a worthless post. Are you serious? You can't be this stupid.[/QUOTE]
are you trying to be ironic here?

[QUOTE=miller-time]Because that is just a collection of stories. A study requires you to try and disprove them, not to assume they are true and put them in a drawer. I can go to India and probably find a million people that claim to have seen or interacted with Krishna with absolute sincerity, but if I don't try and test the legitimacy of those stories (by attempting to disprove them) what have I done? Taken notes... not a study.[/QUOTE]

so now you are focused on what is or isn't a 'study'...come on

that site is full of testimony from people all over the globe of every race and religion btw...

here is a study...er I mean a gathering of what they say about "religion":

[url]http://www.near-death.com/experiences/research06.html[/url]

you should read it...regardless of weather or not it meets the criteria to be a 'study'

[QUOTE=-p.tiddy-]are you trying to be ironic here?[/QUOTE]
No irony. I think you're legit mentally retarded.

[QUOTE=Jello]No irony. I think you're legit mentally retarded.[/QUOTE]
do care to explain or just gonna troll?

really not sure why this subject would upset anyone this much...I take it you are a proud atheist who is offended at the idea you might be wrong or something? Or maybe you're just a child who got picked on too much today?

[QUOTE=-p.tiddy-]Miller...how come there isn't a single example of someone who has had an NDE and thinks it could have been a 'brain trip'?[/quote]

Can you demonstrate that? I think it would be safe to assume that not everyone who has had NDE has come forward and of that group it is possible that not all of them have believed it. Possible, but you could be right. We don't know.

[quote]these people 'KNOW' there is an afterlife...to them it is fact...to ALL OF THEM[/quote]

What they think they know and what they do know are two completely separate things. There is no evidence yet that what they believe is true. Only that their experiences have a profound effect on them.

[quote]Miller, if you had an NDE, there is a 100% chance you would come back saying [I]"nevermind I was wrong, they are definitely real"[/I][/quote]

I don't even know where to begin with that. It is likely I might respond that way, but it is not definitely 100%.