80's vs 90's

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers]They also dominated in the 80's. That's what made that era so great.

Guys who dominated the 90's like Charles Barkley, Michael Jordan, Hakeem, Ewing also dominated the 80's.

Barkley had seasons averaging 25-28 PPG while grabbing 12-15 RPG during the 80's. Jordan was MVP and DPOY in '88 also ROY in '85 and was ALL NBA First team 1987-1989. Hakeem reached the NBA Finals in 1986 and ALL NBA First team threw 1987-1989. Patrick Ewing averaged 20 PPG and 9 RPG during the 80's. Karl Malone was a top 3 PF in the NBA during the late 80's.

Now look at players drafted in the mid 90's. Kobe Bryant, Steve Nash, & Kevin Garnett didn't make much noice in the 90's. Rookies in the 90's did not make impact like rookies in the 80's.[/QUOTE]

[B]Amen:confusedshrug: [/B]

[QUOTE=Da_Realist]
The Celtics struggled against the Pistons in the late 80's. Larry Bird [I]really[/I] struggled against the Pistons, especially in 88. The Pistons are the pre-cursor to the defensive-minded teams of the 90's. It's not too hard to believe that Larry and the Celtics would have struggled against the Pistons-cloned teams of the 90's even though the C's were WAY more talented.[/QUOTE]

That's because the big 3 hasn't been healthy since 1987! Injuries also contributed to the Celtics struggle since 1988. Pistons defense was good but tend to be overrated.

[QUOTE=BrianScalabrine]That's because the big 3 hasn't been healthy since 1987! Injuries also contributed to the Celtics struggle since 1988. Pistons defense was good but tend to be overrated.[/QUOTE]

Nah... they weren't injured. I've been watching the 88 series all week. Danny Ainge was injured, but that was it. The Big 3 were not injured. The Pistons were just a better team that year.

[QUOTE=Sir Charles]

It actually took less years for the 80s drafted players to make impacts. Examples are many: Bird, Magic, Worthy, McHale, Isiah, Bernard King, Joe Dumars, Drexler, Dominique Wilkins, Jordan, Barkley, Stockton, Alex English, Rolando Blackman, Ralph Samson, Hakeem, K Malone, Patrick Ewing, Reggie Miller, Tom Chambers, Chris Mullin, Rodman, David Robinson, Kevin Jhonson, Tim Hardaway etc all of these where STAR CALIBER PLAYERS by their 2nd or 3rd season. In some cases by their 1st. Roll Players that were drafted in the 80s were superor to the ones drafted in the 90s too.

What im saying the 80s players made great impacts right away and only few 70s Drafted Stars and Great 70s Drafted Roll Players of that era could sustain themselves with the 80s Drafted Stars [U]but in the 90s pretty much, the 80s Drafted Stars Kept dominating till 1999, when finally the Spurs won with Robinson as their leader and Duncan as an emerging young star[/U].

[U]Compared to the 80s were both 70s and 80s Stars Ruled, very few 1990s Drafted Stars could compete straight up with the 1980s Drafted Stars or Roll Players even if these dudes where way past their phyisical prime [/U](and in 80% of the cases they were inferior). Some examples: Shaq, Alonso Morning, Kemp, Webber, Grant Hill, Jason Kid and thats about it.

[/QUOTE]

You say this is because the 80s drafted players had much bigger impacts right away then the 90s drafted players as your evidence that the 90s was weaker. But couldn't the 80's drafted players faster impacts have just occurred cause the 70s drafted players were much weaker? That should be a possibility. Either way, I'll agree with you, that the 80s drafted players are easily the greatest, but I don't see how that makes the 90s weaker, since the majority of those players played in the 90s.

[QUOTE=guy]You say this is because the 80s drafted players had much bigger impacts right away then the 90s drafted players as your evidence that the 90s was weaker. But couldn't the 80's drafted players faster impacts have just occurred cause the 70s drafted players were much weaker? That should be a possibility. Either way, I'll agree with you, that the 80s drafted players are easily the greatest, but I don't see how that makes the 90s weaker, since the majority of those players played in the 90s.[/QUOTE]


And a lot of them were at their absolute best in the 90's. Including Charles Barkley.

[QUOTE=Da_Realist]And a lot of them were at their absolute best in the 90's. Including Charles Barkley.[/QUOTE]

Actually I remember when Charles Barkley said he was a better player on the sixers than he was on the Suns of few years back on the Stephen A. Smith Show.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers]Actually I remember when Charles Barkley said he was a better player on the sixers than he was on the Suns of few years back on the Stephen A. Smith Show.[/QUOTE]

Maybe, but he was with the Sixers through 1992. That Sixers team couldn't get over the hump (Celtics then Pistons then Bulls) and were surpassed even by the Knicks so his numbers may not attest to this, but he was a better player in the early 90's than he was in the late 80's. Physically? Maybe not. But overall? It's no question.

It's sort of an exercise in futility, anyway. I think the late 80's were closer in similarity to the early 90's than it was to the early-to-mid 80's thanks to the Detroit Pistons challenging the status quo on how to win championships.

Gone were the free passing offenses with jump shooting forwards and excessive running up and down the court. Detroit changed all that. All of a sudden, sayings like "defense wins championships" and "no layups" came into vogue. Not to say previous champions didn't play defense, but it wasn't the [I]focus[/I] like it was with Detroit. That was the only way they could win so they made it their hallmark. Chicago learned from that. Even though they had MJ, Chicago became the best defensive team in the league during their run. Teams realized they didn't need a dynamic 6'9" point guard and a HOF center or a clutch do-everything small forward playing with the best frontcourt in history to win the title. They were a little hard to come by anyway. So they focused on defense.

As much as I hated Detroit growing up, I've come to realize they were trailblazers in a way. They forever changed the way teams thought they could win championships. So I don't think we can accurately divide the two eras at year 1990, but rather at year 1988. 1990 was just like 1989 and 1988 in terms of the style of play, but 1988 was very different than 1987 and before.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers]Actually I remember when Charles Barkley said he was a better player on the sixers than he was on the Suns of few years back on the Stephen A. Smith Show.[/QUOTE]

[B]Its true because when you reach your 30s your speed, potence, agility and leaping ability decreases but in the positive edge you are more mature and experienced so you make batter desicions.

A Players Physical Prime: 21-29 yrs of age

A Players Game Prime: 26-32 yrs of age

A Players Last Glimpses: 32-36

A Players Stubborness: 36 beyond[/B]

[QUOTE=Da_Realist]Maybe, but he was with the Sixers through 1992. That Sixers team couldn't get over the hump (Celtics then Pistons then Bulls) and were surpassed even by the Knicks so his numbers may not attest to this, but he was a better player in the early 90's than he was in the late 80's. Physically? Maybe not. But overall? It's no question.

It's sort of an exercise in futility, anyway. I think the late 80's were closer in similarity to the early 90's than it was to the early-to-mid 80's thanks to the Detroit Pistons challenging the status quo on how to win championships.

Gone were the free passing offenses with jump shooting forwards and excessive running up and down the court. Detroit changed all that. All of a sudden, sayings like "defense wins championships" and "no layups" came into vogue. Not to say previous champions didn't play defense, but it wasn't the [I]focus[/I] like it was with Detroit. That was the only way they could win so they made it their hallmark. Chicago learned from that. Even though they had MJ, Chicago became the best defensive team in the league during their run. Teams realized they didn't need a dynamic 6'9" point guard and a HOF center or a clutch do-everything small forward playing with the best frontcourt in history to win the title. They were a little hard to come by anyway. So they focused on defense.

As much as I hated Detroit growing up, I've come to realize they were trailblazers in a way. They forever changed the way teams thought they could win championships. So I don't think we can accurately divide the two eras at year 1990, but rather at year 1988. [B]1990 was just like 1989 and 1988 in terms of the style of play, but 1988 was very different than 1987 and before.[/B][/QUOTE]

That is BS. The NBA didn't just change their style of play in 1 year.

1987 League Average: 109.9 PPG...48 FG%
1988 League Average: 108.2 PPG...48 FG%
1989 League Average: 109.2 PPG...47.7 FG%

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers]They also dominated in the 80's. That's what made that era so great.

Guys who dominated the 90's like Charles Barkley, Michael Jordan, Hakeem, Ewing also dominated the 80's.

Barkley had seasons averaging 25-28 PPG while grabbing 12-15 RPG during the 80's. Jordan was MVP and DPOY in '88 also ROY in '85 and was ALL NBA First team 1987-1989. Hakeem reached the NBA Finals in 1986 and ALL NBA First team threw 1987-1989. Patrick Ewing averaged 20 PPG and 9 RPG during the 80's. Karl Malone was a top 3 PF in the NBA during the late 80's.

Now look at players drafted in the mid 90's. Kobe Bryant, Steve Nash, & Kevin Garnett didn't make much noice in the 90's. Rookies in the 90's did not make impact like rookies in the 80's.[/QUOTE]

how about shaq (arguably the best center ever) 2 finals appearances all nba
multiple times in the 90s or mutombo 2 time dpoy in the 90s penny hardaway 2 finals appearances chris webber alonzo mourning grant hill iverson
like i said in a previous post there are exceptions to every rule but there are some 90s drafted players that dominated that era

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers]That is BS. The NBA didn't just change their style of play in 1 year.

1987 League Average: 109.9 PPG...48 FG%
1988 League Average: 108.2 PPG...48 FG%
1989 League Average: 109.2 PPG...47.7 FG%[/QUOTE]

its funny how you read what you want to read. i believe he was more or less saying that the pistons played a style of ball that was played in the 90s and were very sucessfull against the lakers and celtics thus starting a trend. i firmly believe that the pistons were BETTER than the lakers in 88 and would have won had it not been for thomas ankle.

[QUOTE=guy]You say this is because the 80s drafted players had much bigger impacts right away then the 90s drafted players as your evidence that the 90s was weaker. But couldn't the 80's drafted players faster impacts have just occurred cause the 70s drafted players were much weaker? That should be a possibility. Either way, I'll agree with you, that the 80s drafted players are easily the greatest, but I don't see how that makes the 90s weaker, since the majority of those players played in the 90s.[/QUOTE]

exactly

[QUOTE=97 bulls]how about shaq (arguably the best center ever) 2 finals appearances all nba
multiple times in the 90s or mutombo 2 time dpoy in the 90s penny hardaway 2 finals appearances chris webber alonzo mourning grant hill iverson
like i said in a previous post there are exceptions to every rule but there are some 90s drafted players that dominated that era[/QUOTE]

[B]Only Shaq made a strong impact compared to the others maybe Iverson and Hill (although this guy lasted only about 6 seasons, he would have been the new Pippen). The rest of the players including Webber, Kidd, Garnett, Duncan etc could only dream of reaching the level Jordan, Barkley, Hakeem, Malone, Stockton and others had in the late 80s and early 90s. Its a fact that the 80s was the era where Most Talent was Drafted and you can even include Magic and Bird since they are 1979-80 right in there[/B]

[QUOTE=97 bulls]how about shaq (arguably the best center ever) 2 finals appearances all nba
multiple times in the 90s or mutombo 2 time dpoy in the 90s penny hardaway 2 finals appearances chris webber alonzo mourning grant hill iverson
like i said in a previous post there are exceptions to every rule but there are some 90s drafted players that dominated that era[/QUOTE]

80's Hakeem, MJ, and Barkley, K. Malone > 90's Shaq, Iverson, Hardaway, Hill

And most of the players you mention were in their prime in the 90's. The Only players you mentioned that were great in the 90's and 00's were Iverson and Shaq.

[QUOTE=97 bulls]how about shaq (arguably the best center ever) 2 finals appearances all nba
multiple times in the 90s or mutombo 2 time dpoy in the 90s penny hardaway 2 finals appearances chris webber alonzo mourning grant hill iverson
like i said in a previous post there are exceptions to every rule but there are some 90s drafted players that dominated that era[/QUOTE]

Shaq didn't have 2 finals appearances in the 90's nor did Penny Hardaway. Chris Webber didn't have a breakout season until '99, and Alonzo Mourning's first great season was also '99 and that Iverson's first great season also.