The Official 2nd Presidential Debate Thread - 10/7/08

[QUOTE=Cannonball]I think it's a pretty good thing when you're comparing the experience of a Presidential Candidate and a VP candidate.[/QUOTE]

If the top of your ticket weren't so advanced in age, hadn't had health issues in the past, and these weren't such serious times, there wouldn't be a good reason to compare them. However, all those things are true, and Palin has a very real chance of having of assuming the Presidency of that ticket does win.

Also, I reject your premise that I'm comparing experience. I've made it clear that their respective knowledge base is what is really important. Obama has proven, whether you agree with his stances or not, that he has developed ideas and stances on all of the critical issues facing us. Looks like the majority of the electorate agrees and tends to feel that Obama's stances are better.

[QUOTE=SoCalMike]His disdain for "that one" is so obvious, its a sign of his weakness. I want my president to look and act presidential, particularly in the face of adversity. If he gets bent over Obama, how is going to look and act in a world stage? How would the world take him seriously?

America needs to be strong in this world with representatives that people respect, not joke about or fear.



:pimp:[/QUOTE]

I agree... I'm not sure he has the proper temperment. The point I was making was that it's not from hatred or deep seated disdain.


Actually, it might be from deep seated disdain. I just don't think that Obama's race is an issue with McCain. It might very well be Obama's age that is the problem.

[QUOTE=Hawker]When was the last time the democrats or republicans posted a decent candidate?

Probably when Clinton took office. He really didnt really screw up the country.

So since Gore/Bush, there hasnt been one decent candidate on either side. All it takes is people realizing that their candidate (demo/repub) no longer represents them and vote 3rd party to give 3rd parties MORE exposure and hope to destroy the mainstream party system.

Voting for the lesser of two evils is simply not enough for me. It shouldnt be for anybody.[/QUOTE]

I happen to think that Gore was a great nominee. You know we only have elections every 4 years, right?

[QUOTE=MaxFly]I happen to think that Gore was a great nominee. You know we only have elections every 4 years, right?[/QUOTE]

I second this.

The reason Gore lost was because the whole Monica/Bill thing and the GOP pushed family values all that conservative BS and we ended up voting for a dumba$$ named W.

I know people are going to point out Somolia etc. but really it was the whole Monica/Bill fiasco.

[QUOTE=MaxFly]Come on man, I don't think he's that kind of person. I do think he's pissed that he's losing... Look at this from his perspective; he's a war veteran who was captured and tortured; his father and grandfather were 4 star navy admirals; he worked his way up through the house and the senate and is now, 26 years later, one of the most powerful senators in the US; his wife is heiress to a multimillion dollar fortune... yet somehow he's losing to a guy who's been in the senate for 4 years and isn't even the senior senator of his own state... To put it another way, he feels like Hillary felt a few months back. There is a sense that this is owed to him and he just can't believe it's being taken away by someone who hasn't paid the same dues he has.[/QUOTE]

Racial epithets are being dropped at republican campaign events, McCain wont even look at Obama, refers to him as "that one", and he's old as hell, grew up in a time when blacks didnt even have civil rights and were getting sprayed with hoses.

I'm not saying McCain is a racist. But if he is one, I wouldn't be surprised.

Would you?

[QUOTE=MaxFly]I happen to think that Gore was a great nominee. You know we only have elections every 4 years, right?[/QUOTE]

He was. He was so great he won.

Err...sorry, Bush. I mean you won, fair and square.

[QUOTE=Cannonball]I think it's a pretty good thing when you're comparing the experience of a Presidential Candidate and a VP candidate.[/QUOTE]


lol you do realize the main role of the Vice President has always been to take over the Presidency if something were to happen to the President, right?

All Vice Presidential candidates should be measured mostly on how well they could fulfill that role if anything :hammerhead:

but hey don't let logic stop you from spouting right wing propaganda catch phrases and poor excuses for hypocritical viewpoints.

I do agree with Maxfly that Palin is likable in a way which i didn't realize before the VP debate. She's just leagues below most serious candidates in how she carries herself, her knowledge, and overall experience. But go ahead talk about her 1 year as Governor, and owning a small business, and Alaska being so close to Russia.

[quote=Hawker]This is what I like to see Heilige. Another republican realizing that the republican party is no longer being republican.

Voted 3rd Party people![/quote]

This goes for Heliege as well, but if there's a silver lining in this for real Conservatives, couldn't it be that if the polls hold true that an entirely new (well, entirely old I suppose) Republican party may come out of this? I've heard R's are losing all over the country in all sorts of former strongholds.

I think people who vote 3rd party are completely retarded. I'm sorry.

You know they have no chance of winning at all. You know this. So why don't you use your vote to where it might actually have some influence? Don't like either dem or repub candidate? Guess what, one of them is going to win anyway. So you might as well vote for who you hate the least. A vote for a third party is useless and pretentious.

[quote=InspiredLebowski]This goes for Heliege as well, but if there's a silver lining in this for real Conservatives, couldn't it be that if the polls hold true that an entirely new (well, entirely old I suppose) Republican party may come out of this? I've heard R's are losing all over the country in all sorts of former strongholds.[/quote]

Honestly, that would be refreshing if its the result... get back to the views of the more traditional Republican party... it would be healthier for the country if this happened!!!!


:pimp:

[quote=SoCalMike]Honestly, that would be refreshing if its the result... get back to the views of the more traditional Republican party... it would be healthier for the country if this happened!!!!


:pimp:[/quote]

If there were a real "traditional Conservative" candidate I think a lot of people who never considered themselves a Republican would be surprised how much they like what he/she would have to say, a lot of those under 35 or so anyway.

[QUOTE=crisoner]I second this.

The reason Gore lost was because the whole Monica/Bill thing and the GOP pushed family values all that conservative BS and we ended up voting for a dumba$$ named W.

I know people are going to point out Somolia etc. but really it was the whole Monica/Bill fiasco.[/QUOTE]


Yeah the religious right wing votes did him in imo. They are a huge voting factor for the right. Its why Mccain took Palin, strictly for those idealistic votes since they weren't supporting Mccain. They are also the dumbest voters imo based on pastors lecturing to their back woods ignorant congregations preaching one sided politics against their religious values.

Gore also got a bad rap for the whole inventing the internet thing everyone always called him out on. I thought he was easily a better candidate than Kerry but he wasn't the best speaker or debater imo. I think Obama and Clinton are clearly superior overall at least in presentation.

[quote=Smokee]Gore also got a bad rap for the whole inventing the internet thing everyone always called him out on. I thought he was easily a better candidate than Kerry but he wasn't the best speaker or debater imo. I think Obama and Clinton are clearly superior overall at least in presentation.[/quote]

I'm surprised no one's bringing up the Obama gaffe about "computers being invented by government scientists looks for a way to communicate," that's the internet. Not a big deal, but given our current nature of "he misspoke, skewer him!" I'm surprised.

[QUOTE=MaxFly]I agree... I'm not sure he has the proper temperment. [/QUOTE]
I thought it was hilarious yesterday when he was talking about having the patience and balance to deal with delicate international issues. Dude is widely known to have one of the worst tempers in politics and has been known to abuse other senators in a rage. Not your strong suite john

[QUOTE=picc84]I think people who vote 3rd party are completely retarded. I'm sorry.

You know they have no chance of winning at all. You know this. So why don't you use your vote to where it might actually have some influence? Don't like either dem or repub candidate? Guess what, one of them is going to win anyway. So you might as well vote for who you hate the least. A vote for a third party is useless and pretentious.[/QUOTE]


Stop with the ignorant adolescent remarks of a "wasted vote." It is completely illogical to state such. Anyone who states such, is truly showing how ignorant they are, as to the governance of this Republic.

The only people who mock with the waste vote non-sense, are the party loyalist, who continue to allow themselves to be abused.

A vote predicated on principles that this nation was founded on, regardless of circumstance, is never wasted, even if the person you voted for, doesn't get elected.

I'm voting on my principles and those principles don't make it okay to support the lesser of two evils or to sell myself out.

My vote will be earned and not thrown away on someone like McCain or Obama.

[QUOTE=InspiredLebowski]I'm surprised no one's bringing up the Obama gaffe about "computers being invented by government scientists looks for a way to communicate," that's the internet. Not a big deal, but given our current nature of "he misspoke, skewer him!" I'm surprised.[/QUOTE]
yeah I said that to my wife last night as well.

[QUOTE=SoCalMike]Honestly, that would be refreshing if its the result... get back to the views of the more traditional Republican party... it would be healthier for the country if this happened!!!!


:pimp:[/QUOTE]


:cheers:

[QUOTE=picc84]I think people who vote 3rd party are completely retarded. I'm sorry.

You know they have no chance of winning at all. You know this. So why don't you use your vote to where it might actually have some influence? Don't like either dem or repub candidate? Guess what, one of them is going to win anyway. So you might as well vote for who you hate the least. A vote for a third party is useless and pretentious.[/QUOTE]


I agree but they are stuck between a rock and a hard place. They are disenchanted with the current Republican party which isn't really conservative anymore, and they are against a lot of the left policies so it doesn't leave them much.

Then theres past partisanship which i think is a pretty big factor with a lot of them maybe supporting the left as the lesser of all evils and making their vote count. Its mainly disenchanted past Republicans it seems that have flocked to Independent. I'll give them more credit than the ones ignorantly sticking to the right, and repeating catch phrases and propaganda like right wing dummy's.

[QUOTE=Cannonball]McCain is going to do what he think is best for the American people. He knows that pork barrel spending is absolutely NOT what the American people want to do, but he seems to think this bail out plan is absolutely necessary.


Also why is no-one talking about Obama being the leading receiver of frannie may and freddie Mac dirty money????[/QUOTE]


Because of this maybe:

[B][I]Fact Check: Did Obama get second-most money from Freddie and Fannie?
Posted: 10:30 PM ET

The Statement: At a presidential debate Tuesday, October 7 in Nashville, Tennessee, Republican presidential candidate Sen. John McCain said Democratic opponent Sen. Barack Obama and other Democrats resisted regulating mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which ultimately collapsed and had to be taken over by the government. "Meanwhile, they were getting all kinds of money in campaign contributions. Sen. Obama was the second-highest recipient of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac money in history

[QUOTE=Smokee]I agree but they are stuck between a rock and a hard place. They are disenchanted with the current Republican party which isn't really conservative anymore, and they are against a lot of the left policies so it doesn't leave them much.

Then theres past partisanship which i think is a pretty big factor with a lot of them maybe supporting the left as the lesser of all evils and making their vote count. Its mainly disenchanted past Republicans it seems that have flocked to Independent. I'll give them more credit than the ones ignorantly sticking to the right, and repeating catch phrases and propaganda like right wing dummy's.[/QUOTE]


If everyone continues to vote the "lesser of two evils" they never will. There has to be a point when people start to actually be fed up and do something with their vote other than mutter to themselves about how much they dislike voting for that person. I cannot imagine something more to be fed up with from the Republican party for actual conservatives than right now. If the latest events haven't been the perverbial straw, then I don't honestly believe there ever will be one.

People gripe about how third party doesn't have a chance. And in the same breath, they state they won't get involved, until they do have a chance.

Translation = When others have done the grunt work, and get things moving, I will get on board with the program. Until then, I will continue to allow myself to be abused.

20 years of politics and Conservatives have absolutely nothing to show for it. We now have the largest federal government, the largest debt, the largest deficit we have ever had, a financial crisis, a serious looming budget crisis, an energy policy problem. All the work, all the elections, all the money and sweat, for not.

I refuse to participate any longer.

[QUOTE=Heilige]If everyone continues to vote the "lesser of two evils" they never will. There has to be a point when people start to actually be fed up and do something with their vote other than mutter to themselves about how much they dislike voting for that person. I cannot imagine something more to be fed up with from the Republican party for actual conservatives than right now. If the latest events haven't been the perverbial straw, then I don't honestly believe there ever will be one.

People gripe about how third party doesn't have a chance. And in the same breath, they state they won't get involved, until they do have a chance.

Translation = When others have done the grunt work, and get things moving, I will get on board with the program. Until then, I will continue to allow myself to be abused.

20 years of politics and Conservatives have absolutely nothing to show for it. We now have the largest federal government, the largest debt, the largest deficit we have ever had, a financial crisis, a serious looming budget crisis, an energy policy problem. All the work, all the elections, all the money and sweat, for not.

I refuse to participate any longer.[/QUOTE]


I can't disagree with you at all. Both sides are right because your vote doesn't really count towards a possible winner this election but someone has to take the first steps for that 3rd party to be eventually viable so more people won't have that same mentality of it not counting later on because so few generally support it.

Can't blame you.

[QUOTE=Denali]In and of itself, it is harmless. Parents do not genetically pass on their religious affiliations. However, for a guy who did develop known associations with radicals throughout his life, to me personally it does raise a red flag that he is born of a man who belongs to the most fervently anti-american faith on the planet. How do you really know this is a guy who America can trust? He came to the Senate for four years, hardly voted, and as soon he was able to muster the popularity to make a Presidential run he jumped for it. This guy reeks of an opportunist. I think he has liberals fooled with all his majestic "change washington" sloganisms. I smell a rat plain and simple.[/QUOTE]


Let me get this straight. So you are generalizing all Muslims as anti-american terrorists, and making the connection that since Obama's [B]father
[/B] was muslim even tho Obama himself isn't, that it raises red flags that Obama himself could be a terrorist and anti-American? :oldlol:

That is so laughable in terms of strings of indirect generalizations to reach the conclusion you did its not even funny. Are you retarded or just stupid? :confusedshrug: You're like that video of that backwoods redneck lady sitting at the picnic table with the other rednecks making those same type of accusations.

I think if you generalize that extremely, you must have a lot of things to say about black people in general.

And considering Mccain wasn't present for 3/4's of the Senate votes and led all senators in being absent, criticizing Obama for not taking sides is a poor point to make. But don't let that stop you and your ignorant propaganda~


PS and how the hell can someone start a thread giving you respect for spouting this crap? meh i guess its more than you thats retarded.

[QUOTE=boozehound]I thought it was hilarious yesterday when he was talking about having the patience and balance to deal with delicate international issues. Dude is widely known to have one of the worst tempers in politics and has been known to abuse other senators in a rage. Not your strong suite john[/QUOTE]

He also said "We don't have time for on the job training" while his VP candidate is the epitome of that concept.

Watching these things is really difficult for me.

Watching 2 intelligent people dumb themselves down so profoundly to pick up a few extra votes is really sad and doesn't speak well for our country at all.

I watched the first 45 minutes and neither candidate said one substantial or impressive thing the entire time. And once again neither candidate even pretended to have any interest in answering the question posed to him/her. It's downright pathetic. In high school I took a Comp class and papers were graded on a 0-9 scale. It was next to impossible to score below a 4... but you could write the best paper in the whole class, and if you didn't [I]answer the question,[/I] you got a 0. The simplest idiot can get a 2 saying the most obvious, insubstantial stuff, but the smartest kid in the class could ignore the question, write a masterpiece and fail.

Both McCain and Obama failed last night.

And how about those morons asking the questions, huh? Where did they find those people? How do you get into these "town hall" meetings anyway? Town hall my ass anyway, there aren't any real questions or real people in that room.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZ-tQnUEUE8&feature=iv&annotation_id=event_16064[/url]

Can't stop laughing at that question. :roll:

[QUOTE=Posts Penyeach]

And how about those morons asking the questions, huh? Where did they find those people? How do you get into these "town hall" meetings anyway? Town hall my ass anyway, there aren't any real questions or real people in that room.[/QUOTE]

Very true. the whole thing is tightly controlled, essentially staged.