Jordan 69 pt game vs Kobe 81 point game

[QUOTE=hotsizzle]who started this thread? was it a kobe fan? NO.[/QUOTE]

I started this thread and I do like Kobe, I think he is the best SG in the game, but I'm neither a hater or his biggest fan. He is what he is.

The thread was started not to say which is more impressive scoring 81 points in regulation or 69 points in OT. Obviously scoring 81 is more impresive in terms of scoring.

However Jordan grabbed 18 rebounds and had 6 assists among other better numbers during the 69 point performance (refer to 1st post in thread). So the general question is not who is a better scorer, but what impresses you more, a complete game scoring 69 or a dominant 81 point scoring performance. Obviously by the response to this thread there are two catergories of people. One who:

1) Thinks scoring outweighs everything else
2) Is more impressed by a complete game

[QUOTE=xxxSuperStar]
However Jordan grabbed 18 rebounds and had 6 assists among other better numbers during the 69 point performance (refer to 1st post in thread). So the general question is not who is a better scorer, but what impresses you more, a complete game scoring 69 or a dominant 81 point scoring performance. Obviously by the response to this thread there are two catergories of people. One who:

1) Thinks scoring outweighs everything else
2) Is more impressed by a complete game[/QUOTE]

I think you should further narrow the focus of the question, making sure that people who respond are addressing the stats solely. When you ask who had the more impressive performance, as someone mentioned earlier, a number of factors are involved, not just the stats. Jordan scored 69 points, grabbed 18 rebounds, helped his team to a decent size lead, but inspite of his performance, his team almost lost the game when the Cavs came back and sent the game to overtime. Bryant scored 81 points leading his team back from a large deficit, helped them gain a large lead and revitalized his teammates who were dead prior to his run. Arguments can be made on both sides concerning who had the more impressive performance.

You should simply state that you want to focus on the stats and that you want to confirm that Jordan's game was statistically more impressive that Bryant's.

[QUOTE=MaxFly]I think you should further narrow the focus of the question, making sure that people who respond are addressing the stats solely. When you ask who had the more impressive performance, as someone mentioned earlier, a number of factors are involved, not just the stats. Jordan scored 69 points, grabbed 18 rebounds, helped his team to a decent size lead, but inspite of his performance, his team almost lost the game when the Cavs came back and sent the game to overtime. Bryant scored 81 points leading his team back from a large deficit, helped them gain a large lead and revitalized his teammates who were dead prior to his run. Arguments can be made on both sides concerning who had the more impressive performance.

[B]You should simply state that you want to focus on the stats and that you want to confirm that Jordan's game was statistically more impressive that Bryant's[/B].[/QUOTE]

I know that Kobe had a more impressive scoring game and Jordan had a more impressive statistical game already. That's simple to see. I just wanted to know what impresses people more, the scoring or the complete game.

Both teams won their game so I put that as a wash considering, like you said, the Lakers were down 20 to one of the league's worst teams in the first place and the Bulls need OT to win against a good team. When anybody puts up monster scoring games (55+) the games are usually close. I mean you rarely see somebody score a ton in a blowout for a variety of reasons.

even tho this argument is stupid.....

MJ basically as a rookie dropping 63 on possibly the Greatest team of all time still amazes me. the only team that comes close to the 86 Celtics are the 96 Bulls.

i didnt even know who Jordan was when i was watching that game on tv. only thing i knew was that the Celtics were the greatest team on earth.

this is crap, there are a lot of teams that are as good as the 86 celtics.

most of the 60s celtics are, wilt's sixers from 67; lakers from 1982, 1985 and 1987; bulls from 1992, sixers from 1983, lakers from 2001, lakers from 1972, there are a lot of teams as good or better than the 86 celtics.

[QUOTE=lakers-city]this is crap, there are a lot of teams that are as good as the 86 celtics.

most of the 60s celtics are, wilt's sixers from 67; lakers from 1982, 1985 and 1987; bulls from 1992, sixers from 1983, lakers from 2001, lakers from 1972, there are a lot of teams as good or better than the 86 celtics.[/QUOTE]

lol keep believing that.

the lakers won 5 rings in the 80's 2 of them against boston, they are obviously better.

the celtics won 11 rings in the 50s and 60s, they are obviously better.

[QUOTE=hotsizzle]I'll give you the first two paragraphs because some laker or kobe fans are like that, but not all are.

I dont agree with the last statement whatsoever. Look at it this way, Kobe had 23 in the first half...and they were down 15, he had to change his style because obviously it wasnt working. Now, I agree that it was wrong because he leaned towards sharing the ball too much. he didnt find the balane. He was unaggressive and didnt show much drive at all. For this I blame Kobe, and I'll admit to that. But there is no way, no way, he would even think of quiting. He hasnt done if for 10 yrs, even when him and shaq were having problems, kobe would always be the one sparking the 4th qtr comebacks...no reason to believe he would quit now. BUt hey, answer this honestly, if kobe would have went out firing in the second half...I guarantee your arguement would be "See, Kobe went back to his old selfish self..blah blah blah"[/QUOTE]


Hotsizzle, I have respect for you. You are indeed a legit "laker/kobe" fan. One of VERY FEW on this board. I apologize to YOU for generalizing Kobe fans as clowns on this board.

[QUOTE=EricForman]Hotsizzle, I have respect for you. You are indeed a legit "laker/kobe" fan. One of VERY FEW on this board. I apologize to YOU for generalizing Kobe fans as clowns on this board.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the praise and the respect. :cheers:

[QUOTE]If I saw Kobe's 81 point game on dvd I'd be willing to pay up to $7 for it. On the other hand, I wouldn't even waste my time watching Jordan's 69 point game in overtime.[/QUOTE]

Dumbfuk Jordan's videos outsell Kobe's videos probably by 10:1

Im currently working on a video that shows their top 3 scoring games, shot for shot!

Its gonna be sick!

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTMFTQFvO_8[/url]

[B]Ill Take Barkley`s 56 Points/14 Rebounds/4 Assists/3Stls/1Block on 74.2% FG vs the Warriors in the Play-Offs Game 3 with Only 31 Shots, Going 11 fgs/11 fgas and 27 Points in the 1st Quarter Over Both MJ`s and Kobe`s Game.

He Should Have Been More a of a Ball Hogg and Take More Shots...But Wait Barkley Wasn`t Close to a Ballhogg (he needed only 14 FGAs PG to Score over 20 and That Includes his Dummy 3 Pointers) While Kobe and MJ Where...Nothing Against Them but They Where Both Ballhoggs[/B]

[quote=xxxSuperStar]We all know Kobe scored 81, but take a look at Kobe's 81 point game vs. Jordan's 69 point game vs the Cavs on 3/28/90

Kobe 81 points (28-46 63% shooting), 6 rebounds, 2 assists, 3 steal, 1 block, 3 turnover

Jordan 69 points(23-37 62% shooting), 18 rebounds, 6 assists, 4 steals, 1 block, 2 turnovers

Which is more impressive? I have to say Jordans. 18 rebounds while scoring 69 points is unheard of.

BTW, this game is on ESPN classic for you younger whippersnappers who have no idea how good Jordan was. Actually, there ESPN classic is running great NBA games all day today.[/quote]


Lettuce not forget which team was better defensive either. The '90 Cavs that were getting ready for the playoffs and primed and ready for their rival Bulls or a '06 Canadian team.

I've watched both entire games. Kobe was shooting the hell out of the ball, but IMO the edge goes to Mike for the rebounds plus he did it against VASTLY superior defense.

Kobe's 81 point game reeked of the spoonfeeding Robinson got during his 71 point game. Not to the same extent, but similar.

Jordan, because he contributed more overall and didnt need to be spoonfedd and didnt need to padd the extra points in the 4th quarter with a blowout lead.... and he faced tougher competition.

[QUOTE=pauk]Jordan, because he contributed more overall and didnt need to be spoonfedd and [B]didnt need to padd the extra points in the 4th quarter with a blowout lead[/B].... and he faced tougher competition.[/QUOTE]
LOL at this clown.. :facepalm The game was close and they need Kobe to score for them to win.. They were down by double digits and Kobe brought them back and win the game.. Stop hating dude..

Kobe 81 points >>> LeBrick .5 cheap ring

It's a shame that the 81 point game is tied to Kobe's name. Had it been flipped around and Kobe had the 69/16 game ISH would scream, "yeah but Jordan scored more."

I don't agree with the "spoonfed" comments. In retrospect the game was still close. You give the ball to the guy who's hot and unstoppable. That's called "BASKETBALL". The Lakers were down by alot and the outcome is they won the game. What more do you want? The fact that it's Kobe Bryant seems to justify criticism with all you folks.

[QUOTE=DaHeezy]It's a shame that the 81 point game is tied to Kobe's name. Had it been flipped around and Kobe had the 69/16 game ISH would scream, "yeah but Jordan scored more."

I don't agree with the "spoonfed" comments. In retrospect the game was still close. You give the ball to the guy who's hot and unstoppable. That's called "BASKETBALL". The Lakers were down by alot and the outcome is they won the game. What more do you want? The fact that it's Kobe Bryant seems to justify criticism with all you folks.[/QUOTE]

I think the biggest problem people have isn't that he scored 81, or that he kept shooting. It was the way he went about it.

He was only there to score, nothing more nothing less. He wasn't even there to attempt to play team ball, run plays or anything. And we've seen that a number of times with him, win or lose, he's gonna get his regardless. That's what people don't like about him.

Even if MJ shoots a lot, he still does it in the flow of the game for the most part. Most of his shots are still inside the team framework with a win in mind.

Kobe forces things more.

[QUOTE=Round Mound][url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTMFTQFvO_8[/url]

[B]Ill Take Barkley`s 56 Points/14 Rebounds/4 Assists/3Stls/1Block on 74.2% FG vs the Warriors in the Play-Offs Game 3 with Only 31 Shots, Going 11 fgs/11 fgas and 27 Points in the 1st Quarter Over Both MJ`s and Kobe`s Game.

He Should Have Been More a of a Ball Hogg and Take More Shots...But Wait Barkley Wasn`t Close to a Ballhogg (he needed only 14 FGAs PG to Score over 20 and That Includes his Dummy 3 Pointers) While Kobe and MJ Where...Nothing Against Them but They Where Both Ballhoggs[/B][/QUOTE]
Wtf

[QUOTE=KOBE143]LOL at this clown.. :facepalm The game was close and they need Kobe to score for them to win.. They were down by double digits and Kobe brought them back and win the game.. Stop hating dude..

Kobe 81 points >>> LeBrick .5 cheap ring[/QUOTE]

Ahhh... the legendary Kobetard delusion & lies to try and cover what really happened.......

[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/pbp/200601220LAL.html#q4[/url]

[img]http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/statpadding.png[/img]




Those were COMPLETELY not necessary, even if he left with 3:26 to go and his teammates wouldnt score anything during that time they would still have won by 11 points....

With 2:36 remaining the Raptors removed their entire starting lineup... who cares? Kobe still stayed and enjoyed it even more with 7 unnecessary points... During especially this time he got mad at his teammates if they didnt give him the ball, they were forced to feed him the ball even when completely open... It was clear he was hunting for as many points as possible.... Even with 20-40 seconds left he was struggling like hell to try and get a foul/shot, Vujacic couldnt get him the ball and stood completely open with 10 seconds left, finally had to take the shot himself... he tilted his head down and start moving to the bench with 4 seconds left.... oh mi oh my.... why didnt he stay? he could have milked out extra points during those 4 seconds... what a slacker....

This is disrespectful to the game, its absolutely discusting...

Just stop it... stop...

Those last few minutes completely destroyed it, he should have left with around 2-3 minutes remaining... with a respectable ~70 points... and a respectable lead... and a fantastic game.... that would show he simply did what he did to secure the lead, nothing else, it would have been very classy.......... Do you know how many times Jordan had these oppurtunities to milk out as many points as possible? But he never did... never... I bet when Jordan saw those last 2-3 minutes of this game he simply facepalmed.... What Kobe did there was just desperate, low...

Lol. This is not even close.

EricForman, you were a moron six years ago and still are today.

No matter how you look at it, 81 points is pretty unreal. But factor in Jordan's assists, rebounds, and steals make it a tough call.

[QUOTE=NumberSix]Lol. This is not even close.[/QUOTE]

This. A 12 point difference is substantial. Kobe scored 17.4% more points than Jordan. Not that close.

[QUOTE=NBAEMoreira022]are you trying to say that MJ's 69 was better than Kobe's 81? go to the store and buy something that costs 81 dollars but instead only pay 69 dollars and 18 pennies and see if the clerk thinks its better than 81[/QUOTE]

This is the dumbest analogy ive heard in my entire life

The value/impact of ~15 rebounds certainly changes when it's a Jordan or Kobe game, huh?

As far as a individual offensive display, Kobe's is better. If you watch Jordan's 69, it comes much more within the realm of the offense. The better overall game was Jordan, but the better pure display of offensive brilliance was Kobe Bryant, I think he even kicked one in:oldlol:

Easily Jordan's game. With reason. He gave you 69, but his context makes his game better. 69 big ones, with 6 dimes (2 points a bucket means he affected 81 points on the score boards), plus the 18 rebounds ... against one of the best team's in the conference.

And MJ didn't start raining buckets until he came down with a tweaked ankle, and got pissed when the Cleveland crowd was cheering while he was down with injury.

I recently re-watched the Kobe game, and remove 6 years and have a clear head and it is one of the most self serving disgusting performances I have EVER seen. Like everything in Kobe's career, it seemed to come out contrived, pre-planned, and forced.

Kobe went into the game with the mind set of trying to score AS MANY points as possible. Do little else. Just score. Against a BOTTOM FEEDER.

I never saw MJ going into a game trying to score AS MANY points as possible, at the expense of everything else in the game. MJ would make statement games where he'd give a team 50 but he did it in the flow of the offense, still got others involved, played the game organically ... and wasn't self indulgent trying to go over a certain mark.

I forget what exact point in the game, but when I just recently re-watched it ... when Kobe was in the mid 60's the Lakers had handily taken control of the game. They were doubling him, and he could have EASILY got others involved, but he kept shooting. I had fun watching it in 2006, but watching it now it was embarrassing. No wonder his teammates didn't even seem all that thrilled for him.

If MJ went out with the purpose to score as much as he wanted to in a game, everyone else be damned, and truly put out a selfish contrived performance like Kobe's 81 ... he could've replicated it quite easily.

As always, context is what separates things. The devil is in the details, and the WAY in which Kobe got his points. It's the mentality. Not to mention this was against an atrocious defense, in a meaningless regular season game, against one of the worst teams in the league.

I've never seen Kobe go off in legendary mode for epic memorable games in the playoffs or against elite competition like Mike did when expected. Kobe if anything usually underperforms and disappoints in those game.

And I don't even want to hear quality of defenders, athleticism bull sh1t excuse for Kobe. Ehlo was a good scrappy defender even if non athletic. Jalen Rose was old as dirt and always un athletic and so was Mo Pete at that point in his career. Defensive capabilities has never been only attributed to athletic ability, anyway.

Plus, watching the Jordan 69 video, he was sinking mid range jumpers with two and three men coming at him ... most note worthy 6'10 and 7'0 Hot Rod Williams (very athletic) and Brad Daughrety.

MJ as usual wins in the contest with Kobe. Let's see Bean do this in the playoffs with any sort of regularity. Cause it won't happen. His one playoff 50 point game came in an overtime contest with a team whose ENTIRE philosophy was to NOT play defense.

Call to Kobe stans: eliteballer, MaxFly ... rebuttal?

:biggums:

[QUOTE=LakersDynasty]Let's not forget Kobe also scored 62 in 3 quarters and outscored an NBA Finals team.

62 in 3 quarters or 69 in overtime?[/QUOTE]

:roll:

Kobe shot 6 less times in 3 quarters, he also shot 2 more free throws in three quarters than MJ did in a OT game :roll:

[QUOTE=Calabis]As far as a individual offensive display, Kobe's is better. If you watch Jordan's 69, it comes much more within the realm of the offense. The better overall game was Jordan, but the better pure display of offensive brilliance was Kobe Bryant, I think he even kicked one in:oldlol:[/QUOTE]

Kobe was playing within the realm of the offense for most of the first half...but it wasn't working at all. They were down nearly 20 to the Raptors at one point. The Lakers came back when Kobe started playing hero ball.

How is it a preconceived goal when his team was DOWN double digits? He scored 55 points in the second half.. he didn't come out gunning from the get go

[QUOTE=Calabis]
Kobe shot 6 less times in 3 quarters, he also shot 2 more free throws in three quarters than MJ did in a OT game[/QUOTE]
Dude well that was the season where they gave out free-throws like candy.

[QUOTE=chazzy]How is it a preconceived goal when his team was DOWN double digits?[/quote]
Purely coincidental. You can see it in his mannerisms coming out he was looking to ONLY score.

[QUOTE=chazzy]He scored 55 points in the second half.. he didn't come out gunning from the get go[/QUOTE]
Those 55 points weren't needed ... JUST from Bryant.

The Lakers recaptured the lead I believe late 3rd quarter or very early 4th.

There is a point in the game where Kobe has 60+ and the Lakers have the definitive lead and Kobe is still shooting with double teams for what reason?

All he needed to do was use his ability to create to get others involved.

:oldlol: @ acting like all those 2nd half 55 points from Bryant and Bryant alone were pure heroics to win the game.

My jesus you Kobe stans are too much sometimes. There is about 11 - 15 points from the 81 that weren't necessary in the slightest. Or could've been easily used to help a teammates confidence.

This site has become overrun by the Kobe apostle generation.

MJ

[QUOTE=Money 23]
I've never seen Kobe go off in legendary mode for epic memorable games in the playoffs or against elite competition like Mike did when expected. [/QUOTE]
And just lol at this. Just because you've stopped watching the NBA since your boy retired, doesn't mean these games haven't happened.

Did you not see what Odom was doing that game? He couldn't do a thing. Kobe was hot and rode it for an entire game. I don't understand why you Jordan stans are so.. offended.. that he rode a hot hand. Just sit back and be entertained.

[QUOTE=Money 23]
I've never seen Kobe go off in legendary mode for epic memorable games in the playoffs or against elite competition like Mike did when expected. Kobe if anything usually underperforms and disappoints in those game.
[/QUOTE]

Guess you haven't paying attention then.

[QUOTE=chazzy]And just lol at this. Just because you've stopped watching the NBA since your boy retired, doesn't mean these games haven't happened.[/quote]
Son, I've seen Kobe's career come and go.

I was on the boards rooting for him time and time again ... believe me I'm objective when it comes to Kobe.

And watched him disappoint over and over in the playoffs and Finals. The most memorable Kobe games from the playoffs were his 48 v.s. the Nuggets in the 1st round in 2008, and his 50 against Phoenix in game 6 in 2006.

That's it. He just hasn't had many solo legendary games in the playoffs. Kobe / Laker stans still clinging to a self indulgent regular season game from 2006. It's pathetic.

[QUOTE=Money 23]Son, I've seen Kobe's career come and go.

I was on the boards rooting for him time and time again (Samurai Swoosh) ... believe me I'm objective when it comes to Kobe.

And watched him disappoint over and over in the playoffs and Finals. The most memorable Kobe games from the playoffs were his 48 v.s. the Nuggets in the 1st round in 2008, and his 50 against Phoenix in game 6 in 2006.

That's it. He just hasn't had many solo legendary games in the playoffs. Kobe / Laker stans still clinging to a self indulgent regular season game from 2006. It's pathetic.[/QUOTE]
Oh I didn't know you were Sam Swoosh. You have an angrier tone on this account :oldlol:

[QUOTE=Heavincent]Guess you haven't paying attention then.[/QUOTE]
The only individual [B]legendary[/B] games that immediately come to mind in recent history are as follows.

LeBron v.s. Boston ECF game 6 (2012) ... entire reputation on the line, immence hate and a country wanting you to fail. RISES above.

LeBron v.s. Detroit (2007)

Kobe's had some good ones ... his game 6 v.s. Denver (2009), game 1 v.s. Magic (Finals 2009), his 3rd quarter game 5 v.s. Boston (Finals 2010)

But please son, nothing legendary. Don't try to school me I was there to watch it all, and I've forgot more ball than you ever thought of man.