What is Kobe's legacy if he beats Miami's big 3 in the finals?

[QUOTE]What is Kobe's legacy if he beats Miami's big 3 in the finals?[/QUOTE]

Better than Jordan's legacy.

[QUOTE=Jacks3]lol. People have Kobe that high because he's an incredible player individually. Kobe could have 0 Chips and he'd be in the top 15 simply based on his accomplishments, peak/prime play, and playoff performances. Kobe haters are retarded.[/QUOTE]


I completely agree, but your'e kind of missing my point. Kobe is simply a better player than the guys in the 10-15 era. 15 was an exaggeration needed to get my point across, but even still, my point is that, if Kobe played with the Wizards people would undervalue him for the same reasons they overvalue him now, championships.

IMO, Kobe's rightful spot based on level of play is 5-7. What I'm saying is that had he won 0 championships, theres no way most people would rate him that high, even though he is that good of a player.

[QUOTE=Jacks3]lol. People have Kobe that high because he's an incredible player individually. Kobe could have 0 Chips and he'd be in the top 15 simply based on his accomplishments, peak/prime play, and playoff performances. Kobe haters are retarded.[/QUOTE]
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[QUOTE=PowerGlove]:facepalm
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What? I don't get it. People routinely have guys like Barkley, West, Oscar, Malone,Robinson in the top 15 and they all won 0 or only 1 ring. Considering the fact that Bryant is just as good a player as them, and maybe even better than some (arguably) it seems pretty clear that people would still have as top 15 All-Time just based on his tremendous play and longevity. :confusedshrug:

Iverson stan. :facepalm

[QUOTE=Jacks3]What? I don't get it. People routinely have guys like Barkley, West, Oscar, Malone,Robinson in the top 15 and they all won 0 or only 1 ring. Considering the fact that Bryant is just as good a player as them, and maybe even better than some (arguably) it seems pretty clear that people would still have as top 15 All-Time just based on his tremendous play and longevity. :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]
The fact that you expect to drop Kobe in washington and never win a ring but produce in the same fashion over his career is at best laughable.

"Oh, carry the load from Day One Kobe!! You'll be fine."

[IMG]http://basketball.exchange.ph/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/aug282007_kobe.jpg[/IMG]

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[IMG]http://www.windrifthill.com/Images/Farm/goat3a.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=ginobli2311]i'll bite:

1. jordan
2. russell
3. magic
4. kareem
5. wilt
6. duncan
7. shaq
8. bird
9. hakeem
10. kobe[/QUOTE]

ha, i remember when you had kobe at like 14 back in june

You're a moron. Kobe in Washington is the exact same player individually. His numbers would probably be better. He's still going to have the same longevity. He's still going to be mentioned as one of the best if not [I]the best[/I] in the league. He's still going to put up the great stats (28-32/5-6/5-6). He's still going to be making many All-NBA 1st teams. So yeah, he's still the same player [I]individually[/I]. That's the point. ****ing moron. :facepalm

Because the wear and tear of being the main guy from day one wont affect his career.

Stop being stupid.

:roll: The guy is one of the best conditioned athletes in the league. He has the best work ethic in the league. He's a elite player in his [I]14th season[/I]. That's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. What? Is not having Shaq going to take years off his career? :roll: :roll: :roll:

[QUOTE=Jacks3]:roll: The guy is one of the best conditioned athletes in the league. He has the best work ethic in the league. He's a elite player in his [I]14th season[/I]. That's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. What? Is not having Shaq going to take years off his career? :roll: :roll: :roll:[/QUOTE]
:facepalm

I'm done here.

*insert rolling smilie* *insert obvious facts we'll all know which show that I can't think for myself* insert parade of rolling smilies*

Of course you're done. You know damn well you're wrong. :cheers:

Over-Analyze Much?

WTF did I miss? :oldlol:

Ginobli:

I actually respect your intellect and the cases you make, but you went too overboard and expended a lot of unneeded energy. It was merely a collection of examples of how "What Ifs" can be exploited to no end. It was merely in relation to a point on the belief that every other player seems to be based on what they've done and accomplished but with Kobe, it's somehow a matter of circumstance. That's hypocrisy to me. Nothing more, nothing less.

But to play along, I agree Bryant wouldn't maintain .455 FG% on 23 FGA if he were to have shot that much 96-00. Since 2000-01, He's proven multiple times he can maintain it..

if people are that hellbent on diminishing bryant, then do so for 1999-2000. I don't find it logical to discredit what he did in 2001 & 2002 if it is based on performance. Those numbers are more than comparable to dwade 2006 postseason. He played with Shaq. He also performed as well as most "No. 1s."

This argument should've been DEAD The second lebron signed with miami.

Originally Posted by ginobli2311
i'll bite:

1. jordan
2. russell
3. magic
4. kareem
5. wilt
6. duncan
7. shaq
8. bird
9. hakeem
10. kobe


lol top 10.................stupidest shit ive ever heard. the **** else does this guy hav to do like holy shittt. he does it all and has his whole career. hes played with better competition yr in and out led and carried his team in good times and bad. knows more bout basketball than any player in nba history as phil jackson put it even jordan. like wtfff all yall tht do NOT hav him in top 3 are seriously dumb as sheeeeittt. wow ill rank those top 10 u hav for ya tho bud. jesus.....SMH
1 jordan (for now)
2 kobe
3 magic
4 kareem
5 bird
6 russell
7 shaq
8 hakeem
9 duncan
10 wilt

[QUOTE=mayo'sgrizz]Originally Posted by ginobli2311
i'll bite:

1. jordan
2. russell
3. magic
4. kareem
5. wilt
6. duncan
7. shaq
8. bird
9. hakeem
10. kobe


lol top 10.................stupidest shit ive ever heard. the **** else does this guy hav to do like holy shittt. he does it all and has his whole career. hes played with better competition yr in and out led and carried his team in good times and bad. knows more bout basketball than any player in nba history as phil jackson put it even jordan. like wtfff all yall tht do NOT hav him in top 3 are seriously dumb as sheeeeittt. wow ill rank those top 10 u hav for ya tho bud. jesus.....SMH
1 jordan (for now)
2 kobe
3 magic
4 kareem
5 bird
[B]6 russell[/B]
7 shaq
8 hakeem
9 duncan
[B]10 wilt[/B][/QUOTE]

Good lord! Wilt at #10 and Russell at #6? And Kobe ahead of Magic, Kareem, and Shaq??? We are all entitled to our opinions, but I would really like to read your reasoning on those slots...

[QUOTE=jlauber]Good lord! Wilt at #10 and Russell at #6? And Kobe ahead of Magic, Kareem, and Shaq??? We are all entitled to our opinions, but I would really like to read your reasoning on those slots...[/QUOTE]

This.

I've made a lot of posts defending Kobe here, but I've got him as the 3rd best LAKER. He's got time.. Its nothing to be ashamed of.

[QUOTE=ginobli2311]what do you mean?

i'll assume that its because i have duncan over shaq.

simple. duncan won just as much with less. 11 straight seasons of 50 or more wins. 4 titles as the number 1 option vs 3.

mostly though. defense. i have duncan as one of the 5 greatest defenders of all time. shaq "might" crack the top 50. that gap is huge. duncan could do everything on defense....and he did.

i could go on and on. shaq had a better peak....but duncan is the overall better player.[/QUOTE]

Sure Duncan is a fundamentally better defensive player, and what? Should we ignore Shaquille's sheer intimidation factor? Shaquille's mobility, quickness and overall defensive awareness was adequately enough for him to be used as an effective defensive anchor on any team, in any era. Look at Andrew Bynum, this guy has no clue what's going on the defensive end on majority of the possessions; but his length and general size allows him to be an intimidation factor inside. LA's defense is visibly worse [I]without[/I] Bynum inside, a guy who is fundamentally terrible in terms of defensive awareness. In conclusion, size matters; and Shaquille not only had size but mobility/general quickness and defensive awareness to boot.

In conclusion, I fully believe in the form over substance theory; at the end of the day I feel just as comfortable with Shaquille being my team's defensive anchor as I do with Tim Duncan; despite Duncan having the superior defensive prowess.

Outside of that, your reasoning is skewed. I'm going out right now, so I'm somewhat in a rush. But I'll subvert your opinion on how Duncan is the overall better player (completely subjective opinion; and is most definitely within the minority scope) and Duncan winning more with less (complete fabrication; same guy since he was drafted, had arguably the best front office in the entire league putting together a cohesive group of players around him). Playing along side two all-stars for almost a decade; one who is considered by many at the very least the fourth best SG this past decade (behind Iverson, Bryant and Wade) and Parker, an exceptionally efficient PG. Not to mention possibly the best X & O coach in the game, with a savvy set of veterans behind them. You're severally over-exaggerating the discrepancy in talent between the two players and completely denigrating Duncan's supporting cast.

[QUOTE=PowerGlove]:facepalm

[B]I'm done here.[/B]

*insert rolling smilie* *insert obvious facts we'll all know which show that I can't think for myself* insert parade of rolling smilies*[/QUOTE]

good...stay fcuking out of the Kobe & Laker related threads....

[QUOTE=Bring-Your-Js]This.

I've made a lot of posts defending Kobe here, but I've got him as the 3rd best LAKER. He's got time.. Its nothing to be ashamed of.[/QUOTE]

I agree. He MAY very well surpass Magic, Shaq and Kareem, but I just don't see his case as this point. If he were to retire tomorrow, would his career still be considered better than several of those folks on that list?

[QUOTE=Bring-Your-Js]This.
[B]
I've made a lot of posts defending Kobe here[/B], but I've got him as the 3rd best LAKER. He's got time.. Its nothing to be ashamed of.[/QUOTE]


yupe ..I think so...total posts = [B]39[/B] & joined date = [B]Aug 2010[/B]

I'm surprised more people don't have Erving in the top 10. He had incredible longevity and one of the greatest peaks ever. I suppose it's because he played in the ABA, but contrary to popular belief the ABA wasn't much different from the NBA in terms of competition or defense. In fact if I remember correctly half the all-stars in the all-star game post-merger were from the ABA.

[QUOTE=Lakers_Kobe_Fan]yupe ..I think so...total posts = [B]39[/B] & joined date = [B]Aug 2010[/B][/QUOTE]

What's your point? Check the percentage that have gone without any type of rebuttal from his wide world pool of haters. :facepalm

Klosed.

If we are using hypotheticals here...I will say this...

IF Kobe plays like MJ did from ages 32 to 34, then I think he would have a case as the GOAT. That's a BIG IF...but just saying...

[QUOTE=jlauber]If we are using hypotheticals here...I will say this...

IF Kobe plays like MJ did from ages 32 to 34, then I think he would have a case as the GOAT. That's a BIG IF...but just saying...[/QUOTE]

Seriously attainable. It looked like he was on his way to his best year ppg wise since 2006-07 until the injuries started adding up last season. People could use this as proof of him beginning to break, especially the knees. The finger was a freak occurence like his pinky in my view, and rolling an already tender ankle helped absolutely nothing.

[QUOTE=Lakers_Kobe_Fan]good...stay fcuking out of the Kobe & Laker related threads....[/QUOTE]
Who are you?

When have you made a post that I have ever read?

Exactly.

Dont quote me anymore.

[QUOTE=jlauber]If we are using hypotheticals here...I will say this...

IF Kobe plays like MJ did from ages 32 to 34, then I think he would have a case as the GOAT. That's a BIG IF...but just saying...[/QUOTE]
We've already seen Kobe at his best. And he never measured up. LeBron's the only hope left.

[QUOTE=ginobli2311]gasol was the best player in that series in my opinion.[/QUOTE]


I think Kobe may have thought this too. In his post-game interview, the interviewer was asking about his finals MVP, and Kobe commented about how he couldn't hit water from a boat or something, and then mentioned specifically "the Spaniard" as being instrumental in the series. I got the sense that Kobe thought Pau should of won the series MVP.

[QUOTE=gilalizard]I think Kobe may have thought this too. In his post-game interview, the interviewer was asking about his finals MVP, and Kobe commented about how he couldn't hit water from a boat or something, and then mentioned specifically "the Spaniard" as being instrumental in the series. I got the sense that Kobe thought Pau should of won the series MVP.[/QUOTE]

If Gasol had shown up on the road and averaged a convincing 20-24 ppg to go with his rebounds I think you're talking serious case. However, heading back to Los Angeles for Game 6, Kobe was sporting a 30.2 ppg average. His 26/11 and 23/15 in the final two games combined with the fact Gasol never did hit 20 ppg for the series while shooting 48% himself (on shots much close to the rim) including 6-16 in Game 7 despite the same FGA as the regular season just isn't enough to take it from Bryant: 29/8/4? Jordan's had a lesser Finals than that shooting the same percentage and nobody questions it. It's just simply because its Kobe, really. People were even saying this in 2009 when he put up 32/5/7.

It's silly.

Pretty funny to see the Kobe haters talking about Gasol winning MVP considering how awful he was, especially on the road. What idiots. Hell, through 6 games many people were saying that Kobe should get MVP regardless if the Lakers win.

[QUOTE=mayo'sgrizz]Originally Posted by ginobli2311
i'll bite:

1. jordan
2. russell
3. magic
4. kareem
5. wilt
6. duncan
7. shaq
8. bird
9. hakeem
10. kobe


lol top 10.................stupidest shit ive ever heard. the **** else does this guy hav to do like holy shittt. he does it all and has his whole career. hes played with better competition yr in and out led and carried his team in good times and bad. knows more bout basketball than any player in nba history as phil jackson put it even jordan. like wtfff all yall tht do NOT hav him in top 3 are seriously dumb as sheeeeittt. wow ill rank those top 10 u hav for ya tho bud. jesus.....SMH
1 jordan (for now)
2 kobe
3 magic
4 kareem
5 bird
6 russell
7 shaq
8 hakeem
9 duncan
10 wilt[/QUOTE]

This might be the worst top ten I have ever seen.

Kobe above Kareem, Russell, Wilt is retarded. Wilt at 10 is sheer stupidity. :facepalm

[QUOTE=jlauber]I agree. He MAY very well surpass Magic, Shaq and Kareem, but I just don't see his case as this point. If he were to retire tomorrow, would his career still be considered better than several of those folks on that list?[/QUOTE]

I don't even see him passing Kareem. Even if he accomplishes more than Kareem, Kareem, for the majority of his career was simply a better player than Kobe ever was, unless Kobe somehow ups his level of play by 15-20% these last few seasons and brings home a couple more rings.

[QUOTE=jlauber]If we are using hypotheticals here...I will say this...

IF Kobe plays like MJ did from ages 32 to 34, then I think he would have a case as the GOAT. That's a BIG IF...but just saying...[/QUOTE]

He hasn't been able to reach that level of play yet, and he's already past his prime.

And honestly, he needs to exceed MJ's peak if he wants to be ahead of him, which like you said is a big if.

[QUOTE=Jacks3]Pretty funny to see the Kobe haters talking about Gasol winning MVP considering how awful he was, especially on the road. What idiots. Hell, through 6 games many people were saying that Kobe should get MVP regardless if the Lakers win.[/QUOTE]

Watching the games for some reason made me think Gasol deserved the MVP. However going back and watching the games without all the excitement and then looking at the stats, it's pretty clear Kobe did in fact deserve that finals mvp, and it wasn't even that close.

[QUOTE=All Net]I think most would agree Kobe is in that 9-10 range at the moment. Would beating Lebron and Wade in the finals jump him up to maybe the top 5 if he manages to beat these two superstars while winning his 6th championship and winning his 3rd finals MVP along with completing a Lakers 3-peat. A lot are expecting L.A to beat Miami due to the size factor but does Kobe leading Lakers to another 3-peat jump him even higher?[/QUOTE]


Its going down

Top 5

[QUOTE=Heavincent]Top 5[/QUOTE]

I say 6!

Perfect icing on the cake, to retire on top