Printable View
i'd actually love to see what rondo would do if ray ray wasn't tailing him. would he loiter around the basket, motioning for his teammates to approach?
i kinda agree with blaze here. when your playmaker is reticent about scoring himself even when it is the right play, then it IS a problem.
maybe he should stop doing this since they keep losing games.
I honestly think that little things like this can screw around with the chemistry of the team.
[QUOTE=cteach111]maybe he should stop doing this since they keep losing games.
I honestly think that little things like this can screw around with the chemistry of the team.[/QUOTE]
I hope this is sarcasm.
haters gon hate.
stat padding, stupidity, or being unselfish..
[QUOTE=cteach111][B]maybe he should stop doing this since they keep losing games.[/B]
I honestly think that little things like this can screw around with the chemistry of the team.[/QUOTE]
Im kinda of waiting for this to become a saying around here.:lol
so when a player steals the ball goes on a one man uncontested fast break and does a high flying thunderous slam dunk he's applauded despite his showboating...
he easily could of just laid it in and gone about his business but instead he's praised and we get 3 instant threads exclaiming "OMG did you just see what's his names slam dunk? GOAT slam dunk he should enter the slam dunk contest" complete with 3 different gifs
but when a player steals the ball and passes it off to one of his teammates for an easy bucket he's stat padding?
[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]I wouldnt say im trying to "penalize" him for it. Just strikes me as odd for a guy mid game to clearly have his final stats flash through his head and make an effort to not simply score an uncontested layup so he can flip a pass back to get the stat hes more concerned with.
Doesnt make him worse. Wilt Chamberlain did it for at least 2 years for the sole putpose of winning the assist title. It happens.
But it is...odd. Seems like something id rather my guys not even have in mind. Not to the point they bypass the most simple plays. Makes me wonder what is in their head when they pass up shots in the halfcourt and dish it off. Going for the assist or just being unselfish?
There is a difference. And there comes a point that offense suffers. Want your PG to get the best shot. Not the shot most likely to result in an assist. If he doesnt post Pierce up when he has the advantage...and instead dribbles around looking to get a quick dump in assist like hes playing 2k11 trying to get a milestone in Myplayer...
Its just a little quesitonable.
Id rather that kind of thing not be so clearly at the front of a point guards mind.[/QUOTE]
I didn't have much of a problem with rondo's latest pass but I did have a problem with a few other things he did last night.
On one play he took a pick to his right and was cutting down the lane going towards the hoop, and instead of putting it off the glass himself for an easy 5 foot banker while airborne, he whipped it around to someone on the baseline for a jumpshot.
[QUOTE=gts]so when a player steals the ball goes on a one man uncontested fast break and does a high flying thunderous slam dunk he's applauded despite his showboating...
he easily could of just laid it in and gone about his business but instead he's praised and we get 3 instant threads exclaiming "OMG did you just see what's his names slam dunk? GOAT slam dunk he should enter the slam dunk contest" complete with 3 different gifs
but when a player steals the ball and passes it off to one of his teammates for an easy bucket he's stat padding?[/QUOTE]
Dunking serves the purpose of exciting the crowd.
Jerry Sloan would have slapped Rondo silly for even considering this move
[QUOTE=Darkess]Dunking serves the purpose of exciting the crowd.
Jerry Sloan would have slapped Rondo silly for even considering this move[/QUOTE]
:oldlol: You think Jerry Sloan wants to energize the crowd instead of play as a team?
[QUOTE=ProfessorMurder]:oldlol: You think Jerry Sloan wants to energize the crowd instead of play as a team?[/QUOTE]
No, Jerry would take a layup over a dunk any day. The pass served no purpose, but a dunk over layup can.
I'm saying Jerry doesn't like thinking about stats AT ALL (except as related to W's). Rondo's play had nothing to do with the game and Jerry would have murdered him out on the court if he was his coach.
[IMG]https://it.housing.berkeley.edu/files/lock-and-key-icon-thumb355812.jpg[/IMG]
where is InspiredLebowski when you need him
[QUOTE]but when a player steals the ball and passes it off to one of his teammates for an easy bucket he's stat padding?[/QUOTE]
You saying it isnt? what would you call clearly and beyond all argument pulling up to avoid a layup so you can pass to a guy slowing up himself out of position to get an assist? The team gets the same two points. But he gets the assist. Hes averaging like 14-15 a game. Hes clearly quite aware of that. If its not stat padding to not take the best shot in basketball multiple times for the sole purpose of stacking up a particular stat then what is it?
Hes not getting all these assists out of unheard of passing ability or just...being more unselfish than guys like Nash and Paul have in recent years. hes getting them because hes setting out to generate assists. And there is a difference between being unselfish and trying to create assists. Ive seen Celtic fans say he doesnt feed guys that often who arent in position to score easily. That he will dribble around a little and look for a cutter instead. That he passes for assists not to get someone in better position or position to go one on one when they have an advantage.
I can believe it seeing this. Hes out for the numbers.
Doesnt mean he doesnt want to win. Nobody can question his desire to win. Guy goes hard as hell. Id still take him on my team. Im just saying...hes a stat padder. One of the most obvious and to me...inarguable ones ive ever seen.
Wilt was a stat padder. Jordan was a stat padder that season he got all those triple doubles in a row. Bird was stat padding to get to 60 vs the Hawks. It happens. Great players do it. Rondo...is padding his assists beyond the normal basketball play.
He just is. Doesnt make him evil. But its hard to call it anything but stat padding. And because of it I kinda have to take his assists totals less serious.
[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]You saying it isnt? what would you call clearly and beyond all argument pulling up to avoid a layup so you can pass to a guy slowing up himself out of position to get an assist? The team gets the same two points. But he gets the assist. Hes averaging like 14-15 a game. Hes clearly quite aware of that. If its not stat padding to not take the best shot in basketball multiple times for the sole purpose of stacking up a particular stat then what is it?
Hes not getting all these assists out of unheard of passing ability or just...being more unselfish than guys like Nash and Paul have in recent years. hes getting them because hes setting out to generate assists. And there is a difference between being unselfish and trying to create assists. Ive seen Celtic fans say he doesnt feed guys that often who arent in position to score easily. That he will dribble around a little and look for a cutter instead. That he passes for assists not to get someone in better position or position to go one on one when they have an advantage.
I can believe it seeing this. Hes out for the numbers.
Doesnt mean he doesnt want to win. Nobody can question his desire to win. Guy goes hard as hell. Id still take him on my team. Im just saying...hes a stat padder. One of the most obvious and to me...inarguable ones ive ever seen.
Wilt was a stat padder. Jordan was a stat padder that season he got all those triple doubles in a row. Bird was stat padding to get to 60 vs the Hawks. It happens. Great players do it. Rondo...is padding his assists beyond the normal basketball play.
He just is. Doesnt make him evil. But its hard to call it anything but stat padding. And because of it I kinda have to take his assists totals less serious.[/QUOTE]
But when I say this, I'm called every name in the book.
[QUOTE=Glide2keva]But when I say this, I'm called every name in the book.[/QUOTE]
Bulls fan:mad: :mad: :mad:
lets not act like he didn't do it yesterday neither.
[URL="http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/9634/statpad.jpg"]http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/9634/statpad.jpg[/URL]
[URL="http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/1001/statpad2.jpg"]http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/1001/statpad2.jpg[/URL]
scust @ whoring yourself like that. have some pride dammit!:oldlol:
here's the one with the Bulls
[URL="http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/3867/ron1.jpg"]http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/3867/ron1.jpg[/URL]
[URL="http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/9530/ron2b.jpg"]http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/9530/ron2b.jpg[/URL]
[URL="http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/2186/ron3.jpg"]http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/2186/ron3.jpg[/URL]
looks like he was catching an inbound pass.:roll:
Come and deny this Celtic fans. I dare you.
[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giJNO8_cg-s"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giJNO8_cg-s[/URL]
I honestly don't know how anyone can defend this debauchery.
[URL="http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg615/scaled.php?tn=0&server=615&filename=2rq.png&xsize=640&ysize=640"]http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg615/scaled.php?tn=0&server=615&filename=2rq.png&xsize=640&ysize=640[/URL]
can anyone guess what happens next?
[QUOTE=The Next Jordan]So he likes to get the assist. Did anyone make a 13 page thread to complain when J-Kidd was in his prime running fast breaks and throwing off the backboard passes to K-Mart, RJ, and Vince rather than making an easy open layup?[/QUOTE]
exactly
Rondoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
And the Jason Kidd comparison doesnt make sense either. I remember at least 3 of those plays. 2 to Kmart one to Jefferson. The 2 I remember best were vs the Knicks on a legit fast break with defense running with them. It was just a pass to the guy trailing for the dunk but he put it off the backboard. It wasnt being so far out the defense isnt even trying to catch you....the guy behind you slows up because there is no need to keep going...and you slow down/stop and throw the ball way behind you to a guy who had no reason to expect the ball. just for the number.
I dont know if people are blind or stupid on this one.
If you dont care hes stat padding thats fine. But lets not act like its anything else. Just be real about it.
The one this topic was made on was one of the most obvious cases of stat padding ive ever witnessed. wasnt even like say....Gilbert arenas stopping on the break to do a bounce pass alley to Jrich like they did in Golden state early in their careers. He wasnt trying to get the crowd into it or make a great play.
He set out mid play to NOT make the basic play for the express purpose of generating a stat.
If you dont care thats one thing. We dont need to act like Mark Jackson was doing the same thing on a 2 on 1 break flipping it back to Dale Davis for a dunk though.
Ive been watching the NBA for over 25 years and thats as obvious a case of stat padding as ive ever seen.
[QUOTE=Premeditated][URL="http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg615/scaled.php?tn=0&server=615&filename=2rq.png&xsize=640&ysize=640"]http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg615/scaled.php?tn=0&server=615&filename=2rq.png&xsize=640&ysize=640[/URL]
can anyone guess what happens next?[/QUOTE]
Please show us
[QUOTE=Premeditated]lets not act like he didn't do it yesterday neither.
[URL="http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/9634/statpad.jpg"]http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/9634/statpad.jpg[/URL]
[URL="http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/1001/statpad2.jpg"]http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/1001/statpad2.jpg[/URL]
scust @ whoring yourself like that. have some pride dammit!:oldlol:
here's the one with the Bulls
[URL="http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/3867/ron1.jpg"]http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/3867/ron1.jpg[/URL]
[URL="http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/9530/ron2b.jpg"]http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/9530/ron2b.jpg[/URL]
[URL="http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/2186/ron3.jpg"]http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/2186/ron3.jpg[/URL]
looks like he was catching an inbound pass.:roll:
Come and deny this Celtic fans. I dare you.[/QUOTE]
I want to see them defend this one.
[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]And the Jason Kidd comparison doesnt make sense either. I remember at least 3 of those plays. 2 to Kmart one to Jefferson. The 2 I remember best were vs the Knicks on a legit fast break with defense running with them. It was just a pass to the guy trailing for the dunk but he put it off the backboard. It wasnt being so far out the defense isnt even trying to catch you....the guy behind you slows up because there is no need to keep going...and you slow down/stop and throw the ball way behind you to a guy who had no reason to expect the ball. just for the number.
I dont know if people are blind or stupid on this one.
If you dont care hes stat padding thats fine. But lets not act like its anything else. Just be real about it.
The one this topic was made on was one of the most obvious cases of stat padding ive ever witnessed. wasnt even like say....Gilbert arenas stopping on the break to do a bounce pass alley to Jrich like they did in Golden state early in their careers. He wasnt trying to get the crowd into it or make a great play.
He set out mid play to NOT make the basic play for the express purpose of generating a stat.
If you dont care thats one thing. We dont need to act like Mark Jackson was doing the same thing on a 2 on 1 break flipping it back to Dale Davis for a dunk though.
Ive been watching the NBA for over 25 years and thats as obvious a case of stat padding as ive ever seen.[/QUOTE]
Exactly, I don't give a shit that he does it. Just DONT deny that he does it. Everyone does it, and they'll keep doing it.
[QUOTE=Rose]Exactly, I don't give a shit that he does it. Just DONT deny that he does it. Everyone does it, and they'll keep doing it.[/QUOTE]
Really, and stop getting mad when we call him on it.
i remember a topic that fatal9 started a while back where he looked at every assist made by rondo and said only two were questionable, out of 24
its obvious there's moments where he stat pads, no denying that, but to say his entire game is based on generating assists is completely asinine, he purposely creates plays to get guys open, he only passes to guys that he knows are open and will shoot the ball
basically every pass he makes leads to someone trying to score, he very rarely makes passes that result in a non shooting play
and to be honest? when i see rondo driving and he has a slight chance to make a layup, and instead he passes to a WIDE open PP/Ray/KG, i'd MUCH rather them take the shot than him, let's not act like he's the greatest finisher in the league, and i think he knows it, rondo knows he's not the greatest offensive player
but when he needs to score? he does ..twice last night he blew by his defender in a half court set untouched to the basket for an uncontested layup
when he wants to score, he does, but lets not act like he should be taking shots over three hall of famers, pass the ball to the offensive juggernauts please
I don't even give a shit too call him out on it, I just don't want them to deny he does it.
I agree with everything you said pete, except you'd rather see him pass to Ray/pierce. I think since he's actually a decent finisher he should just finish it, but aside from that I agree entirely.
[QUOTE=pete's montreux]i remember a topic that fatal9 started a while back where he looked at every assist made by rondo and said only two were questionable, out of 24
its obvious there's moments where he stat pads, no denying that, but to say his entire game is based on generating assists is completely asinine, he purposely creates plays to get guys open, he only passes to guys that he knows are open and will shoot the ball
basically every pass he makes leads to someone trying to score, he very rarely makes passes that result in a non shooting play
and to be honest? when i see rondo driving and he has a slight chance to make a layup, and instead he passes to a WIDE open PP/Ray/KG, i'd MUCH rather them take the shot than him, let's not act like he's the greatest finisher in the league, and i think he knows it, rondo knows he's not the greatest offensive player
but when he needs to score? he does ..twice last night he blew by his defender in a half court set untouched to the basket for an uncontested layup
when he wants to score, he does, but lets not act like he should be taking shots over three hall of famers, pass the ball to the offensive juggernauts please[/QUOTE]
So that should bring the value of his assists down some.
to be honest i dont know why he doesnt look to score as much anymore, maybe he's gunning for the assist title, maybe he's gunning for the record i don't know
but when rondo does RONDO, the celtics offense hits on all cylinders, it's beautiful to watch, players getting bounce passes through 5 guys for an open layup, him driving and drawing defenders passing out to ray and pierce and kg on the wing, fast break trailing threes for ray and pp
rondo doing rondo helps the team and leads to wins
and i agree with glide, ive always said theres a much larger percentage of BS assists in the entire league than people actually realize, but what are you gonna do? theres nothing you CAN do
[QUOTE=Premeditated][URL="http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg615/scaled.php?tn=0&server=615&filename=2rq.png&xsize=640&ysize=640"]http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg615/scaled.php?tn=0&server=615&filename=2rq.png&xsize=640&ysize=640[/URL]
can anyone guess what happens next?[/QUOTE]
I have to defend him here. He must have been afraid of the COCKBLOCK!
ive never seen any pg better at drawing in defenders and passing to open players, really
he does it literally 20-30 times a game, he's giving high percentage looks to elite shooters, and he gets assists for it, which are completely deserved
[QUOTE=pete's montreux]to be honest i dont know why he doesnt look to score as much anymore, maybe he's gunning for the assist title, maybe he's gunning for the record i don't know
but when rondo does RONDO, the celtics offense hits on all cylinders, it's beautiful to watch, players getting bounce passes through 5 guys for an open layup, him driving and drawing defenders passing out to ray and pierce and kg on the wing, fast break trailing threes for ray and pp
rondo doing rondo helps the team and leads to wins
and i agree with glide, ive always said theres a much larger percentage of BS assists in the entire league than people actually realize, but what are you gonna do? theres nothing you CAN do[/QUOTE]
I'm just saying that, yeah you can gawk over the high numbers and that's good he's getting them.
24 and 22 assists in one game is still 24 and 22 in one game. No matter how you look at it. My only problem with him is when I see him do things like this and get credit like he did something spectacular.
[quote=Glide2keva]I'm just saying that, yeah you can gawk over the high numbers and that's good he's getting them.
24 and 22 assists in one game is still 24 and 22 in one game. No matter how you look at it. My only problem with him is when I see him do things like this and get credit like he did something spectacular.[/quote]
I don't know why anyone would gawk over a play like that. If they did, they're idiots.
[QUOTE=pete's montreux]I don't know why anyone would gawk over a play like that. If they did, they're idiots.[/QUOTE]
I was saying gawk at his high assist numbers.
[quote=Glide2keva]I was saying gawk at his high assist numbers.[/quote]
Well he's doing a lot of work. He's making the right plays. If a PG passes the ball to an OPEN player, he's doing his job and should get all the credit he deserves. 20+ assists is spectacular, period.
lol @ stats not mattering. If you went by the eye test, JR Smith would be better than Kobe.
[QUOTE=HB40TheNextStar]lol @ stats not mattering. If you went by the eye test, JR Smith would be better than Kobe.[/QUOTE]
Using whose eyes? JRs?
Rondo haters really got their Panties in a twist over this! Can't believe there are people writing essays about it. That's some funny stuff. Who cares what he does as long as he doesn't turn the ball over.
[QUOTE=Glide2keva]I'm just saying that, yeah you can gawk over the high numbers and that's good he's getting them.
24 and 22 assists in one game is still 24 and 22 in one game. No matter how you look at it. My only problem with him is when I see him do things like this and get credit like he did something spectacular.[/QUOTE]
22 assists is still spectacular. And if you took off the 10% of so-called 'padded assists', which is a generous figure, he'd still be the assist leader so far...