I'm just glad Kobe didn't dunk on a little kid & act hard.
That was a nice dunk for someone who is pushing into his mid-30's. Hell, I can't even dunk so that was an impressive dunk on any level.
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I'm just glad Kobe didn't dunk on a little kid & act hard.
That was a nice dunk for someone who is pushing into his mid-30's. Hell, I can't even dunk so that was an impressive dunk on any level.
Matt barnes! :oldlol:
[QUOTE=catch24]The fact you latch onto a hypothetical scenario shows how deluded you are.[/quote]
What? This hypothetical scenario has everything to do with what we've been discussing so far, and your refusal to answer it pretty much exposes your entire argument for Kobe >>> LeBron.
[quote]Answer the question.[/quote]
:oldlol:
This is an honest question, what purpose would my answer serve? What does Kobe's mileage have anything to do with what we've been talking about?
[QUOTE=Indian guy]What? This hypothetical scenario has everything to do with what we've been discussing so far, and your refusal to answer it pretty much exposes your entire argument for Kobe >>> LeBron.[/quote]
Uhhh, LMAO? It has nothing to do with what we've discussed because you nor I can give an accurate opinion without the data we have available for current Kobe/LeBron.
So no, it doesn't. Let me in on what you're smoking, pronto.
[quote]This is an honest question, what purpose would my answer serve? What does Kobe's mileage have anything to do with what we've been talking about?[/QUOTE]
Honest to goodness. It's perfectly relevant, and I'll tell you why after you answer. Again, does Kobe at 32 have more mileage than LeBron at 26? Yes or no?
[QUOTE=catch24]It has nothing to do with what we've discussed because you nor I can give an accurate opinion without the data we have available for current Kobe/LeBron.[/quote]
That's why it's called HYPOTHETICAL, genius. Assume for argument's sake that these 3 great shooters have equivalent numbers from 10-23 feet. Now, would you still deem Kobe the far better shooter based on his FT%? Considering that's your entire argument for Kobe "easily" being better than LeBron, this hypothetical becomes completely relevant given our discussion. So just answer the question, you're only exposing yourself by not doing so.
[quote]It's perfectly relevant, and I'll tell you why after you answer.[/quote]
:oldlol:
Tell me why it's relevant first.
[QUOTE=Indian guy]That's why it's called HYPOTHETICAL, genius. Assume for argument's sake that these 3 great shooters have equivalent numbers from 10-23 feet. Now, would you still deem Kobe the far better shooter based on his FT%? Considering that's your entire argument for Kobe "easily" being better than LeBron, this hypothetical becomes completely relevant given our discussion. So just answer the question, you're only exposing yourself by not doing so.[/quote]
It's almost stupefying how bad your posts have been this thread.
Everyone here, who has posted, knows what a hypothetical is - the example which included MJ in '98 and Tmac in '03 was one. Not sure if you've been reading or just skimming through posts only to get another one of your silly replies in, but I've already said I don't wanna go off a "hypothetical". My opinion, like yours, just isn't taken seriously without evidence. Until you come up with Tmac and Jordan's shooting charts those years, they're irrelevant to the discussion.
Find your brain.
[quote]Tell me why it's relevant first.[/QUOTE]
I've answered all your questions. Stop being such a p*ssy and answer the question.
Indian guy getting out debated again SMH :facepalm
[QUOTE=catch24]
Not sure if you've been reading or just skimming through posts just to get another one of your silly replies in, but I've already said I don't wanna go off a "hypothetical".[/quote]
"I don't want to" is not an adequate response. Half the threads on this board are hypothetical scenarios. I see quite a few posts from you in the [i]Replace MJ with Kobe[/i] thread, so clearly you don't have an issue with making assumptions. Yet do so in this thread because it clearly doesn't serve your purpose. You're pussying out because you know you'd look like an idiot for [i]easily[/i] picking Kobe over 2 great shooters just because of FT%.
[quote]Stop being such a p*ssy and answer the question.[/QUOTE]
Don't see the point in answering a question that couldn't be less relevant to the topic.
[QUOTE=Indian guy]"I don't want to" is not an adequate response. Half the threads on this board are hypothetical scenarios. I see quite a few posts from you in the [i]Replace MJ with Kobe[/i] thread, so clearly you don't have an issue with making assumptions. Yet do so in this thread because it clearly doesn't serve your purpose. You're pussying out because you know you'd look like an idiot for [i]easily[/i] picking Kobe over 2 great shooters just because of FT%.[/quote]
Going off a hypothetical would defeat the purpose of the debate. We've been listing their shooting %'s from the field. Why entertain something we simply have no evidence for? Sorry if I don't find that productive.
Clearly you live in a fantasy world.
[quote]Don't see the point in answering a question that couldn't be less relevant to the topic.[/QUOTE]
You'd be surprised how relevant it is if you're man enough to answer. Man up, p*ssy boi.
some one wanna give me cliffs on this debate...don't want to read 10 pages
[QUOTE=Fatal9]some one wanna give me cliffs on this debate...don't want to read 10 pages[/QUOTE]
Indian Guy trying to prove why Lebron is a better shooter than Kobe ever was.
[QUOTE=catch24]Going off a hypothetical would defeat the purpose of the debate. We've been listing their shooting %'s from the field.[/quote]
Except your initial stance on Kobe >>>> LeBron had nothing to do with shooting percentages. You simply perceived LeBron to be a bad shooter and that's how you drew your incorrect conclusion. Once I clued you in to some facts, you latched on to the bogus FT% stat because you were grasping at straws and needed something, anything, to back-up you original stance. So let's stop pretending you're some big numbers guy.
[quote]Why entertain something we simply have no evidence for?[/quote]
We are looking at 3 good shooters with a similar FG% and playing styles. It's not a stretch at all to assume their efficiencies from the perimeter were very similar, otherwise, they wouldn't have the same FG%. And hey, this is where the HYPOTHETICAL comes in, and we know how much you love assumptions(MJ/Kobe thread), so let's just assume their efficiencies from 10-23 feet were equivalent, would you still deem Kobe the far better shooter based on FT%? Just stop being a BITCH and answer the question. You're completely exposing yourself by not doing so. It just shows you're well aware of how idiotic your Kobe>>>>>>LeBron argument looks by not answering it.
[quote]You'd be surprised how relevant it is if you're man enough to answer. [/QUOTE]
Why don't you man up and actually explain why something that has NOTHING to do with the topic is somehow relevant? It's your question, dumbass. Up to you to explain why I should answer it.
[QUOTE=Fatal9]some one wanna give me cliffs on this debate...don't want to read 10 pages[/QUOTE]
Catch24 thinks Kobe is a wayyyyyy better shooter than LeBron today. When I posted some stats indicating otherwise, he latched onto Kobe's better FT% and believes that's what "easily" makes him the much better shooter. So I gave an example of guys like '98 MJ and '03 T-Mac who had average FT percentages, then asked catch24 whether he considers Kobe "easily" better than those guys too. And being the chicken he is, he refuses to answer it in order to not expose himself on the whole Kobe/LeBron issue.
[QUOTE=Indian guy]Except your initial stance on Kobe >>>> LeBron had nothing to do with shooting percentages. [/quote]
And I had to use them to show your stupid ass why Kobe clearly is a better shooter. You and that other LeBron stan made this into a debate in the first place. Use your brain.
[quote]We are looking at 3 good shooters with a similar FG% and playing[/quote]
Shot selection definitely matters. The fact you continue wanting to turn a statistical debate into a hypothetical shows how much of a retard you are.
Come back to reality, "wee one".
[quote]It's your question, [/QUOTE]
So answer it. Stop being such a va-jj and answer the question. Does Kobe have more mileage than LeBron?
Do we have shot charts/data for '98 MJ and '03 Tmac? Nope, didn't think so. The entire debate has been predicated off of hoopdata's percentages.
Now correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't that make them irrelevant to the discussion?
[QUOTE=catch24]And I had to use them to show your stupid ass why Kobe clearly is a better shooter.[/quote]
Yeah, you definitely showed me by latching onto Kobe's FT% :rolleyes:
[quote]Shot selection definitely matters. The fact you continue wanting to turn a statistical debate into a hypothetical shows how much of a retard you are.[/quote]
Any hypothetical sports debate concerns stats. We all make assumptions, and the one in this case isn't even a big one. Yes, shot selection matters, and considering MJ/T-Mac/Kobe all had similar percentages and played a similar style, it's not a leap to assume their numbers were roughly the same from 10-23 feet. All you have to do now is answer whether you would still consider Kobe [i]easily[/i] better than them because of FT%. Stop being a *****. No shame in admitting you were wrong about Kobe/LeBron.
[quote]Does Kobe have more mileage than LeBron?[/QUOTE]
:oldlol:
You're not getting anything until you explain the relevance of this question.
[QUOTE=Indian guy]Yeah, you definitely showed me by latching onto Kobe's FT% :rolleyes:[/quote]
Becuase all other aspects pretty much even out, even though Kobe has a broader volume. Never mind the fact defenses play them differently, where one is strictly a jump shooter while the other [I]isn't[/I].
[quote]Any hypothetical sports debate concerns stats. We all make assumptions, and the one in this case isn't even a big one. Yes, shot selection matters, and considering MJ/T-Mac/Kobe all had similar percentages and played a similar style, it's not a leap to assume their numbers were roughly the same from 10-23 feet. All you have to do now is answer whether you would still consider Kobe [i]easily[/i] better than them because of FT%. Stop being a *****. No shame in admitting you were wrong about Kobe/LeBron.[/quote]
:oldlol: at this idiot
I've already made an assumption (Gervin/Dantley were better midrange shooters than pre-90's Jordan) - again, though... What good is that opinion if I can't back it up? This isn't an [I]MJ/Kobe swap players on both teams[/I] thread where most answers are hypothetical. Saying Kobe is a better shooter than LeBron and having evidence to the back it up is an entirely different thing. Again, Kobe > LeBron as a shooter [I]clearly[/I]. Deal with it, clown.
[quote]You're not getting anything until you explain the relevance of this question.[/QUOTE]
Someone enjoys getting spoon fed. It's RELEVANT to the discussion because you believe LeBron can beat double teams off the dribble no better than Kobe at this stage. Nothing supports this. Clearly, like you have all season, base LeBron's regression off his athleticism, or lack there of.
You happy you little c*nt? Now answer the question.
[QUOTE=Indian guy]Catch24 thinks Kobe is a wayyyyyy better shooter than LeBron today. When I posted some stats indicating otherwise, he latched onto Kobe's better FT% and believes that's what "easily" makes him the much better shooter. So I gave an example of guys like '98 MJ and '03 T-Mac who had average FT percentages, then asked catch24 whether he considers Kobe "easily" better than those guys too. And being the chicken he is, he refuses to answer it in order to not expose himself on the whole Kobe/LeBron issue.[/QUOTE]
none of those stats matter because your boy was afraid to take jumpers in the finals. Kobe would never hesitate to shoot the ball.
[QUOTE=catch24]Becuase all other aspects pretty much even out[/quote]
Which is why it's downright idiotic to deem Kobe "easily" or "far" better based on just FT%.
[quote]even though Kobe has a broader volume.[/quote]
Yeah, by 4% from 10-23 feet. Completely insignificant.
[quote]Never mind the fact defenses play them differently[/quote]
Not this crap again. Nobody's guarding Kobe & LeBron any differently 1-on-1 today. Nobody.
[quote]I've already made an assumption (Gervin/Dantley were better midrange shooters than pre-90's Jordan)[/quote]
But you're not doing it based on FT%, so it's not relevant. When actually given the choice of doing so in the MJ/T-Mac vs. Kobe comparison, you chickened out.
[quote] It's RELEVANT to the discussion because you believe LeBron can beat double teams off the dribble no better than Kobe at this stage. Nothing supports this.[/quote]
WTF? But what does this have ANYTHING to do with their shooting ability? Or you deeming Kobe far better than LeBron simply based on FT%? This IS what we're discussing, so what does Kobe's mileage having anything to do with this?
And yes, every ****ing game LeBron's played over the past season supports LeBron's inability to break down double teams or even single coverage any better than Kobe's. He's still better a finisher, but not a better penetrater.
[quote]Now answer the question.[/QUOTE]
It's still not relevant to the discussion. I didn't say LeBron's athletic regression had something to do with his mileage, so Kobe's is still not relevant.
[QUOTE=Indian guy]Which is why it's downright idiotic to deem Kobe "easily" or "far" better based on just FT%.[/quote]
No, it's not. It evens out as far as percentages go. But anyone who watches the game and doesn't have a bias like your retarded ass, realizes they're defended differently and volume of jumpshots have to be used with context. For this season and their entire careers.
[quote]Yeah, by 4% from 10-23 feet. Completely insignificant.[/quote]
Nope, significant. a 1.5% difference is about 80+ shots a season. Find your brain, dumbass.
[quote]Not this crap again. Nobody's guarding Kobe & LeBron any differently 1-on-1 today. Nobody.[/quote]
Yes they are. Watch the games.
[quote]But you're not doing it based on FT%, so it's not relevant. When actually given the choice of doing so in the MJ/T-Mac vs. Kobe comparison, you chickened out.[/quote]
Of course it's relevant. We don't have their exact percentages from every aspect of the floor, so, I can't [I]just[/I] use FT%.
[quote]WTF? But what does this have ANYTHING to do with their shooting ability? Or you deeming Kobe far better than LeBron simply based on FT%? This IS what we're discussing, so what does Kobe's mileage having anything to do with this?[/quote]
More volume, defensive attention while FT% breaks the statistical tie. More often than not, a better FT shooter (midrange) is a better shooter, period. Find your brain.
[quote]And yes, every ****ing game LeBron's played over the past season supports LeBron's inability to break down double teams or even single coverage any better than Kobe's. He's still better a finisher, but not a better penetrater.[/quote]
Wrong again. Which is why I asked you to answer the question I presented. You base this off athleticism - so again, answer the question.
Stop being such a p*ssy.
[quote]It's still not relevant to the discussion. I didn't say LeBron's athletic regression had something to do with his mileage, so Kobe's is still not relevant.[/QUOTE]
Then what does it have to do with? How do you lose what you once had, idiot?
Lets not forget Indian-Idiot posted this a few weeks ago
[QUOTE=Indian guy]A quick first step prevents him from getting past guys from a STANDSTILL, not with a live dribble from the top of the key. LeBron can blow past anyone in that scenario.[/QUOTE]
But yeah, Kobe has this luxury? Riiiiiiight
F*cking clown this guy is.
I admire IG's efforts to try to level ALL the variables.
"Kobe takes more shots so volume should be considered" - IT'S ABOUT THE % OF THEIR TOTAL SHOTS NOT HOW MANY THEY TAKE! .... irrelevant
"Kobe is defended more tightly than Lebron" - NO LEBRON IS WORSE AT BREAKING DOWN DEFENSES SO HE GETS DEFENDED THE SAME! - which is just fukin lol-worthy and doesn't deserve a rebuttal
IG is a Bulls fan.
[QUOTE=Samurai Swoosh]IG is a Bulls fan.[/QUOTE]
He's about as much of a Bulls fan as DMavs is a Mavericks fan/Gyno is a Spurs fan.
[QUOTE=Samurai Swoosh]IG is a Bulls fan.[/QUOTE]
Almost as believable as the non-difference in airspace Kobe and LeBron get with their jumpshots :oldlol:
Wasn't Jordan's FT% in '98 hurt by some injury on his shooting hand? Normally he was an 83-85% shooter, using one season doesn't mean anything when the career % indicates otherwise. FT% normally is a very good indicator of midrange ability.
If LeBron has a better shooting % from certain spots on the floor, it's because the defense WANTS him to shoot those shots, instead of breaking down the defense (plus around the league it's seen as his weak spot), so they literally offer him good looks. His jumpshot has been good since '09 season but lol @ thinking he's as good a shooter as Kobe. He's not defended like Kobe is on midrange shots, nor does he take the type of shots Kobe does on a regular basis. LeBron looks like a scrub when teams play zone and he's forced to catch and shoot.
[QUOTE=catch24]Almost as believable as the non-difference in airspace Kobe and LeBron get with their jumpshots :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
I repeat ... IG is a Bulls fan.
I'm just trying to convince you guys of what we all know to be true.
[QUOTE=catch24]No, it's not. It evens out as far as percentages go.[/quote]
It evens out as far as acual NUMBERS go, but Kobe's supposedly guarded SOOOO differently that we should ignore all numbers, and instantly regard him as far better than LeBron? GTFOH. Why don't you just suck it up and admit that whatever the difference between Kobe and LeBron is, it's pretty minimal?
[quote]Nope, significant. a 1.5% difference is about 80+ shots a season.[/quote]
A difference of 1 extra FGA per game is meaningless. Bottom line is this, when Kobe and LeBron take the same amount of shots, Kobe only ends up taking 4.5% more shots from 10-23 feet than LeBron. In other words, if both average 20 FGA in a season, Kobe will end up attempting only 1 more shot from 10-23 feet than LeBron. That's NOTHING.
[quote]Watch the games.[/quote]
Oh I absolutely do watch the games. You're welcome to find me clips of team's supposedly guarding LeBron differently than Kobe this past season. Go ahead.
[quote]Of course it's relevant. We don't have their exact percentages from every aspect of the floor, so, I can't [I]just[/I] use FT%.[/quote]
You're such a coward that you couldn't even take an educated assumption to apply the same logic to MJ/T-Mac/Kobe that you did to Kobe/LeBron. A coward afraid of being exposed.
[quote]a better FT shooter (midrange) is a better shooter, period.[/quote]
I'm willing to agree with this, as long as it's established that FT% alone doesn't make a player "way", "far" or "easily" better than someone else.
[quote]You base this off athleticism[/quote]
I blame LeBron's athletic regression on his size, not on mileage. So no, Kobe's mileage is not relevant here. Get the **** over this already. You're going nowhere.
[quote]Then what does it have to do with?[/quote]
His weight gain, dumbass. His weight gain. How many ****ing times do I have to tell you this?
[QUOTE=catch24]Lets not forget Indian-Idiot posted this a few weeks ago[/QUOTE]
Uhh, way to conveniently ignore I was talking about pre-Heat LeBron. Post the link to that thread. You'll see that I was talking about 03-10 LeBron, who could indeed face up and blow past anyone from the top of the key with a live dribble. He doesn't possess that ability anymore.
[QUOTE=Indian guy]Uhh, way to conveniently ignore I was talking about pre-Heat LeBron. Post the link to that thread. [B]You'll see that I was talking about 03-10 LeBron, who could indeed face up and blow past anyone from the top of the [/B]key with a live dribble. He doesn't possess that ability anymore.[/QUOTE]
just isn't true. I was pointing that out in game threads throughout Bron's time in Cleveland. One on one off a live dribble he was never anything special.
[QUOTE=IGOTGAME]just isn't true. I was pointing that out in game threads throughout Bron's time in Cleveland. One on one off a live dribble he was never anything special.[/QUOTE]
Yes, he was ...
[QUOTE=Indian guy]It evens out as far as acual NUMBERS go, but Kobe's supposedly guarded SOOOO differently[/quote]
It's not a matter of "supposedly"... It's reality. Kobe doesn't get the same amount of air space as LeBron when it pertains to basic-shooting.
You're too much of an idiot to continue this back and forth.
[quote]A difference of 1 extra FGA per game is meaningless. Bottom line is this, when Kobe and LeBron take the same amount of shots, Kobe only ends up taking 4.5% more shots from 10-23 feet than LeBron. In other words, if both average 20 FGA in a season, Kobe will end up attempting only 1 more shot from 10-23 feet than LeBron. That's NOTHING.[/quote]
No, it's not. Again 1.5 FGA more is approximately 80 more shots a season... Deal with reality. 4.5% more shots from 10-23 feet is not "only". It's very significant as I've pointed out. Are you honestly this stupid to ignore a 4.5% difference over the course of an 82 game season?
:roll:
[quote]Oh I absolutely do watch the games.[/quote]
It's not about finding clips dummy. It's what it is. You're the only one who believes your BS; what does that tell you?
[quote]You're such a coward that you couldn't even take an educated assumption to apply the same logic to MJ/T-Mac/Kobe that you did to Kobe/LeBron. A coward afraid of being exposed.[/quote]
And you're a tiny dumpster diver who's brain is half passed dead. A hypothetical scenario is irrelevant considering we don't have accurate (or any) data for their actual shooting %'s. It's not the same thing as a Kobe/LeBron comparison where we do have the data, and FT% is being applied as the "tiebreaker" so to speak.
[quote]I'm willing to agree with this, as long as it's established that FT% alone doesn't make a player "way", "far" or "easily" better than someone else.[/quote]
Given the volume, defensive attention and FT% is why Kobe is better. Comprehension - use it.
[quote]I blame LeBron's athletic regression on his size, not on mileage. So no, Kobe's mileage is not relevant here. Get the **** over this already. You're going nowhere.[/quote]
Which is part of his athletic build, thus he has regressed. Most players that get older aren't in the same shape they used to be. Reality.
Indianguy getting picked apart, resorts to turtle tactic haha its over.
[QUOTE=LA_Showtime]He's about as much of a Bulls fan as DMavs is a Mavericks fan/Gyno is a Spurs fan.[/QUOTE]
Gyno was never a spurs fan. He never said anything of the sort.
I think Kobe and Bronzy are about the same in shooting Bronzy, actually brought his shooting up. I think it's a confidence thing/playing with Wade also impacts it. But he brought it up no doubt.
[QUOTE=DMAVS41]Gyno was never a spurs fan. He never said anything of the sort.[/QUOTE]
:roll:
[QUOTE=Jacks3]:roll:[/QUOTE]
Find a post with him talking about anything more than respecting Duncan, Pop, and the Spurs organization.
[QUOTE=DMAVS41]Gyno was never a spurs fan. He never said anything of the sort.[/QUOTE]
:oldlol:
[QUOTE=DMAVS41]Find a post with him talking about anything more than respecting Duncan, Pop, and the Spurs organization.[/QUOTE]
What's up with this 3rd person stuff, bro? lol
[QUOTE=Jacks3]:roll:[/QUOTE]
he wasn't.