ISH All-time Top 25 Guards Project: #2 Kobe Bryant vs Magic Johnson.

[QUOTE=D.J.]Who do you think was the big dog from 2000-2002? Perhaps it was one with 3 Finals MVP's?[/QUOTE]


So magic was the Big Dog in 1980 and Kareem was the Sidekick?....right?..according to your basketball math?...

I'll tell you who the Big Dog is..the Big Dog is the one with the ball in thier hands with the game on the line....

The Big dog is the first option in Crunchtime....

The Big dog is the one who puts up 33PPG 7REB 7AST on the 01' Spurs in the post season...

The Big Dog is the one called the best allaround player in the NBA at 22 years old.

The Big Dog is the one who stays and goes to 3 more NBA Finals....

The Big Dog gets voted as player of the Decade by the majority (not 10 bias fans online)...



The Big Dog isn't the one who gets traded (what is 6 times) plays on 7+ 50 win teams(without K24) capable of winning it all and never sniffs the type of domination he had with Kobe....



deal wit it son....



____________________________________


oh yeah...kareem is the greatest Center/ arguably GOAT...and you sittin here saying Kobe gets slighted for Shaq?.....



pssst...next

[QUOTE=D.J.]Who do you think was the big dog from 2000-2002? Perhaps it was one with 3 Finals MVP's?[/QUOTE]

If I may:

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kM2OdZPVaw[/url]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOcRucPSB8U&feature=channel_video_title[/url]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBMy_eb2MjM&feature=relmfu[/url]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WFKeF0zUbY&feature=relmfu[/url]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M74mSPzhKww&feature=relmfu[/url]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjyelpOQ0Z8&feature=relmfu[/url]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymhEWrLDXYA&feature=relmfu[/url]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L82_EchHzr4&feature=relmfu[/url]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7dLNpLa5Do&feature=relmfu[/url]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCEzBtxuKLA&feature=relmfu[/url]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kziv0TFEZnY&feature=relmfu[/url]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnStXw5baEo&feature=channel_video_title[/url]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwIWoe2L2DQ&feature=relmfu[/url]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1olhePhxyc&feature=relmfu[/url]

Now if only Game 1 of the 2002 Finals could be found, we would have the complete answer.

[QUOTE=D.J.][B]Magic[/B]


He was the face of the Lakers. He was more efficient on the offensive end, made others around him better, better rebounder, better ball handler, made much smarter decisions with the basketball, and completely took over the team once Kareem aged and Riley told him he had to.

Kobe, although he too has 5 rings, only has 2 as the big dog. He's obviously the better scorer, but he does make some questionable decisions with the ball. His D is better, but his 25-30 PPG, his very average shooting percentage, and his choices do not put him above Magic[/QUOTE]

Every-time someone mentions Kobe not being a "marque" player or "1st option caliber player" in either 01' or 02'; I instantly label an idiot. Notice how badly this project got derailed as soon as Kobe's name was brought up? People on both ends of the fence just have some weird infatuation with this guy.

Now back to my previous point. You have to look at the context of each situation to really truly find how valuable a player is; just because Kobe was considered the 2nd best player on his team should not minimize his accomplishments one bit especially in 01' & 02'.

If a player like Carmelo Anthony was surrounded by a bunch of All-Stars and won five rings as the best player on his team; does it really mean it holds more weight then Kobe winning a ring with Shaquille (being the 2nd best player)?

We all know Carmelo isn't better then Kobe yet he won five rings as the #1 option, should he get more credit for that? Of course not, because you always have to go into detail and actually observe the situation in greater detail.

Besides Shaquille & Kobe, LA never really had any player that was even remotely close to making the All-Star team in any of those years. None of them were considered more then glorified role players who stuck to their role & brought constant effort on the court. It was never Shaquille and company; it was Shaquille, Kobe & company because everyone who doesn't have agenda journals in their back-pocket know that Kobe was invaluable in 01' & 02'. He was their go-to guy in crunch time basically every game; considering opposition actually used Shaquille as an incentive to stop the clock and re-gain position (because of his free throw deficiencies). I remember countless times Kobe taking over games late in games and carrying his team to victories; in particular when Shaquille fouls out and Kobe rallies his team to victory in overtime, remember that?

If Shaquille carried Kobe and we should discredit Kobe from those first three championships; then how come Shaq couldn't carry Eddie Jones, Nick Van Axel and Elden Campbell prior to Kobe becoming a star in the NBA? Uhm...

It is kind of ironic actually that people keep emphasizing how lucky Kobe has been & most of his success should be attributed to Shaquille; yet the guy has more rings then Shaquille. Let's recap their teammates quickly shall we?

Shaq played with Wade, James, Bryant, Penny, Van Axel, Nash, E. Jones.
Kobe played with Shaq, Gasol, Odom & Bynum. :oldlol:

Paradox people.

So in conclusion; Kobe has five rings because he earned them. People were doubting the man after Shaquille left and he won more then Shaq himself. Kobe was at the very least the fifth best player in the league in 01' & 02' and arguably the 2nd or 3rd most dominant player throughout the playoffs in 01'. He was damn good in 02' and was alright in 00'. Only reason people try to belittle Kobe that year is because Shaq arguably had the greatest playoff run in league history, including a historic finals. People are quickly to shed light on how poorly Kobe played against Indiana but never once mention his injury early in that series.

Kobe might have been the 2nd option on the Lakers all those years, but he is a 1st option on every-team in the league besides SA, LA & Minnesota.

So because of that abnormal parity, we should discredit Kobe?
:rolleyes: Yeah, proceed with the hate.

[QUOTE=AlphaWolf24]yup those 10 hard core fans:rolleyes: ...voted thier vote....[/QUOTE]

have no idea what that means but lemme do what you do

yup you mad

2EZ

next

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Magic anyday

[IMG]http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/9f065a51641a5bc6e953292f82174f6e.jpg[/IMG]

^^^:lol


But seriously tho, I'd take the guy who doesnt airball in the clutch twice in a row :oldlol:

[QUOTE=KingBeasley08]^^^:lol


But seriously tho, I'd take the guy who doesnt airball in the clutch four times in a row :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
fixed. :lol

do we even need to make a magic vs mj thread everyone knows who is going to win, lets just move onto the forwards

[QUOTE=AlphaWolf24]So magic was the Big Dog in 1980 and Kareem was the Sidekick?....right?..according to your basketball math?...

I'll tell you who the Big Dog is..the Big Dog is the one with the ball in thier hands with the game on the line....

The Big dog is the first option in Crunchtime....

The Big dog is the one who puts up 33PPG 7REB 7AST on the 01' Spurs in the post season...

The Big Dog is the one called the best allaround player in the NBA at 22 years old.

The Big Dog is the one who stays and goes to 3 more NBA Finals....

The Big Dog gets voted as player of the Decade by the majority (not 10 bias fans online)...



The Big Dog isn't the one who gets traded (what is 6 times) plays on 7+ 50 win teams(without K24) capable of winning it all and never sniffs the type of domination he had with Kobe....



deal wit it son....



____________________________________


oh yeah...kareem is the greatest Center/ arguably GOAT...and you sittin here saying Kobe gets slighted for Shaq?.....



pssst...next[/QUOTE]
Na I pretty sure the big dog wins 3 Fmvps and a Mvp in 2000. Yep I am pretty damn sure.:lol

[QUOTE=juju151111]Na I pretty sure the big dog wins 3 Fmvps and a Mvp in 2000. Yep I am pretty damn sure.:lol[/QUOTE]


meh....

[IMG]http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/1600/kobepotd.jpg[/IMG]


"Big Dog"....can have his Final MVP's against the weak East......


real fans Know who the man was and still is....



next

[QUOTE=AlphaWolf24]meh....

[IMG]http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/1600/kobepotd.jpg[/IMG]


"Big Dog"....can have his Final MVP's against the weak East......


real fans Know who the man was and still is....



next[/QUOTE]

You keep posting this idiotic pic as if it means anything.

Seriously, you actually give credibility to a silly public opinion poll that ranks LeBron over guys like Duncan, Shaq, and KG for player of the decade?!

Gross.






subsequent

[QUOTE=SuperPippen]You keep posting this idiotic pic as if it means anything.

Seriously, you actually give credibility to a silly public opinion poll that ranks LeBron over guys like Duncan, Shaq, and KG for player of the decade?!

Gross.






subsequent[/QUOTE]

puplic opinion poll that used millions of voters means less then a poll of 10 people online???


and fans here say winning is so Overrated ....and all the winning has to be put in context as a "team award"...so why is it crazy that the majority has LBJ higher then Timmy and Shaq:confusedshrug:

I think Kobe/Magic is an interesting comparison. Although I definitely and ultimately fall on the side of Magic, I think the Kobe argument has its merits.
Along with Pippen, Rodman, etc., Kobe's greatness as a player to me is one of the most difficult to quantify.
He is an enigma in so many ways, intimidating yet often disappears for stretches, deadly yet often inefficient, an absolutely incredible lockdown defender when he wants to be, but often takes plays off on D. Incredibly clutch, but also prone to poor decisions more than he should be.
I often think that Kobe's peak play, meaning his highest level over a stretch of a week or two, is the 2nd or 3rd greatest of all players, but I have a hard time putting him in the top 5 if his total body of work (just watching him play, not titles, all this team or that, etc.) is considered.
On my all time list he is somewhere in the top 10 (with a gun to my head at #6 behind MJ, Magic, Wilt, Kareem, and Shaq). Whereas Magic (with a gun to my head) is at #2 behind Mike.
I guess, for me it's hard to go against the magic of Magic, which is what puts him over the great big men for me at the end of the day, though it is certainly arguable.
If I want to win titles, all things being equal and I could have either Magic or Kobe. It's got to be Magic. And that answers the question for me.

Quick sidenote: I think Oscar should have won over West, and think that most guys who played against them would tell you the same thing. I understand West's argument, but I think the mark was missed on that one.

[QUOTE=BIZARRO]I think Kobe/Magic is an interesting comparison. Although I definitely and ultimately fall on the side of Magic, I think the Kobe argument has its merits.
Along with Pippen, Rodman, etc., Kobe's greatness as a player to me is one of the most difficult to quantify.
He is an enigma in so many ways, intimidating yet often disappears for stretches, deadly yet often inefficient, an absolutely incredible lockdown defender when he wants to be, but often takes plays off on D. Incredibly clutch, but also prone to poor decisions more than he should be.
I often think that Kobe's peak play, meaning his highest level over a stretch of a week or two, is the 2nd or 3rd greatest of all players, but I have a hard time putting him in the top 5 if his total body of work (just watching him play, not titles, all this team or that, etc.) is considered.
On my all time list he is somewhere in the top 10 (with a gun to my head at #6 behind MJ, Magic, Wilt, Kareem, and Shaq). Whereas Magic (with a gun to my head) is at #2 behind Mike.
I guess, for me it's hard to go against the magic of Magic, which is what puts him over the great big men for me at the end of the day, though it is certainly arguable.
[B][SIZE="4"]If I want to win titles, all things being equal and I could have either Magic or Kobe. It's got to be Magic[/SIZE][/B]. [B][SIZE="7"]And that answers the question for me.[/SIZE][/B]

Quick sidenote: I think Oscar should have won over West, and think that most guys who played against them would tell you the same thing. I understand West's argument, but I think the mark was missed on that one.[/QUOTE]


just curious...does that mean Bill Russell is better then Jordan on your imaginary top 10 list?

since what put Magic over Kobe is ability to win (but they both won 5:confusedshrug: )....please explain.

[QUOTE=AlphaWolf24]just curious...does that mean Bill Russell is better then Jordan on your imaginary top 10 list?

since what put Magic over Kobe is ability to win (but they both won 5:confusedshrug: )....please explain.[/QUOTE]

Nope, if I wanted to win more titles I'd choose Mike over Russell too. Just because Russell has more titles than MJ, doesn't mean that, all things being equal, he would have more titles than him. That is flawed logic.
Rick Mahorn has more titles than Barkley, does that make him a player who you would win more titles with.
All things equal, I think Magic would get you a better chance at winning a title of Kobe, regardless of how many each currently has.

Actual titles come with a whoooooole lot of context, sure they are important, but there is so much more that goes into it when looking at a player.

Incidentally,the whole "how many titles" argument it is why I think Oscar is VASTLY underrated on this board, along with Ewing, Karl Malone, Barkley, etc...and why Hakeem is overrated on this board. GREAT player sure, but overrated here IMO.
Michael Jordan's best play to me was before he ever won a title, but if he played in '88, '89, and '90 with a better cast and wins a title then, does that make him greater? You just have to weigh in everything.
And for me, weighing in everything, I think Magic gives you a better shot at a title than Kobe.

And I think you can tell from my earlier post, I have mad respect for Kobe, just trying to be objective.

[QUOTE=BIZARRO]Nope, if I wanted to win more titles I'd choose Mike over Russell too. Just because Russell has more titles than MJ, doesn't mean that, all things being equal, he would have more titles than him. That is flawed logic.
Rick Mahorn has more titles than Barkley, does that make him a player who you would win more titles with.
All things equal, I think Magic would get you a better chance at winning a title of Kobe, regardless of how many each currently has.

Actual titles come with a whoooooole lot of context, sure they are important, but there is so much more that goes into it when looking at a player.

Incidentally,the whole "how many titles" argument it is why I think Oscar is VASTLY underrated on this board, along with Ewing, Karl Malone, Barkley, etc...and why Hakeem is overrated on this board. GREAT player sure, but overrated here IMO.
Michael Jordan's best play to me was before he ever won a title, but if he played in '88, '89, and '90 with a better cast and wins a title then, does that make him greater? You just have to weigh in everything.
And for me, weighing in everything, I think Magic gives you a better shot at a title than Kobe.

And I think you can tell from my earlier post, I have mad respect for Kobe, just trying to be objective.[/QUOTE]


wait..... Thinking a player who won 14 major basketball Titles in 13 years (Russ) is better at winning Titles , then a player who won 8 in 18 years (MJ) is flawed logic?...


and then you compared Rick Mahorn to Barkley....since when were they in similar roles....

all things bieng equal as you say I agree....magic could probably take any group of players and make them achieve greatness more so then any player ever..."make your team better"....so would you put him over Jordan also since Magic is clearly superior to Jordan in that same criteria.

[QUOTE=AlphaWolf24]wait..... Thinking a player who won 14 major basketball Titles in 13 years (Russ) is better at winning Titles , then a player who won 7 in 15 years (MJ) is flawed logic?...


and then you compared Rick Mahorn to Barkley....since when were they in similar roles....

all things bieng equal as you say I agree....magic could probably take any group of players and make them achieve greatness more so then any player ever..."make your team better"....so would you put him over Jordan also since Magic is clearly superior to Jordan in that same criteria.[/QUOTE]

In answer to your question, taking into account nothing but the nuber of titles with Russell/MJ, and using nothing else the way you are is definitely flawed logic.
Yes, the way you are trying to twist what I am saying turns it into definitely flawed logic. But the fact that you can't understand the actuality of what I am saying, and of the point I am making, regardless of whether you agree with it, shows a lack of objectivity and subtlety.
Isiah, who is underrated on this board IMO, has more titles than Oscar, but is he "better" at winning titles. All things being equal I would say no. You see, you are missing the "all things being equal" point.

Rick Mahorn and Barkley was just a random comparison of two Power forwards,as is Oscar/Isiah with point guard.

And no, Magic is not "clearly" superior to Jordan in that criteria IMO. I would argue that Mike is superior, though I think Magic has an argument. If I wanted to win titles though, I would go with Mike over Magic more often than not.
To say Magic is "clearly" superior in that criteria is just off base, and the absolute nature of that comment loses it's objectivity.

[QUOTE=BIZARRO]In answer to your question, taking into account nothing but the nuber of titles with Russell/MJ, and using nothing else the way you are is definitely flawed logic.
Yes, the way you are trying to twist what I am saying turns it into definitely flawed logic. But the fact that you can't understand the actuality of what I am saying, and of the point I am making, regardless of whether you agree with it, shows [B]a lack of objectivity and subtlety[/B].
Isiah, who is underrated on this board IMO, has more titles than Oscar, but is he "better" at winning titles. All things being equal I would say no. You see, you are missing the "all things being equal" point.

Rick Mahorn and Barkley was just a random comparison of two Power forwards,as is Oscar/Isiah with point guard.

And no, Magic is not "clearly" superior to Jordan in that criteria IMO. I would argue that Mike is superior, though I think Magic has an argument. If I wanted to win titles though, I would go with Mike over Magic more often than not.
To say Magic is "clearly" superior in that criteria is just off base, and the absolute nature of that comment loses it's objectivity.[/QUOTE]

That pretty much describes AlphaWolf in a nutshell.

You have my respect for trying to reason with the unreasonable. I'll try to do it too, on occasion, whenever I'm bored and I feel like shooting down any of Alpha's "arguments."

[QUOTE=SuperPippen]That pretty much describes AlphaWolf in a nutshell.

You have my respect for trying to reason with the unreasonable. I'll try to do it too, on occasion, whenever I'm bored and I feel like shooting down any of Alpha's "arguments."[/QUOTE]

+1.

And you also have to have a good sense of humor.

[QUOTE=BIZARRO]In answer to your question, taking into account nothing but the nuber of titles with Russell/MJ, and using nothing else the way you are is definitely flawed logic.
Yes, the way you are trying to twist what I am saying turns it into definitely flawed logic. But the fact that you can't understand the actuality of what I am saying, and of the point I am making, regardless of whether you agree with it, shows a lack of objectivity and subtlety.
Isiah, who is underrated on this board IMO, has more titles than Oscar, but is he "better" at winning titles. All things being equal I would say no. You see, you are missing the "all things being equal" point.

Rick Mahorn and Barkley was just a random comparison of two Power forwards,as is Oscar/Isiah with point guard.

And no, Magic is not "clearly" superior to Jordan in that criteria IMO. I would argue that Mike is superior, though I think Magic has an argument. If I wanted to win titles though, I would go with Mike over Magic more often than not.
To say Magic is "clearly" superior in that criteria is just off base, and the absolute nature of that comment loses it's objectivity.[/QUOTE]



I can't understand ...because picking someone who won 8 major titles (MJ) in 18 years(as a main contributor) over someone who won 14 major titles (Russ)in 13 years(as a main contributor) and trying to interpolate how MJ is better at winning....when he clearly isn't???


not trying to be anti subtle....but it's hard to understand your logic and try to read between the lines when you give no reason beyond "all things if equal"....and then don't even explain what that means???

and Magic was a far better facilitator then Jordan....Magic was a far greater winner too....he was a champion and Dominated at every level to go aong with winning 5 Titles in whats widely regarded as the greatest era of basketball......9 NBA Finals and "0" sub .500 seasons....

if you want to use context and "all things equal" please explain...until then I'll try to interpolate.

[QUOTE=SuperPippen]That pretty much describes AlphaWolf in a nutshell.

You have my respect for trying to reason with the unreasonable. I'll try to do it too, on occasion, whenever I'm bored and I feel like shooting down any of Alpha's "arguments."[/QUOTE]


how was I being unreasonable....:confusedshrug:


asked him if Russell was on top of his list since he won 14 major titles??

Jordan stans are cranky today....

[QUOTE=AlphaWolf24]how was I being unreasonable....:confusedshrug:


asked him if Russell was on top of his list since he won 14 major titles??

[B]Jordan stans are cranky today[/B]....[/QUOTE]
When aren't they? :oldlol:

Kobe has never ever carried a team on his own before. From 2005-2007, he couldn't do crap without Shaq. He and the Lakers were dead fish in the water going no where. And in 2008, when they made it back to the finals, they got blown out in Game 6 (imagine what the result would have actually have been if they didn't have Gasol? Would they even be in the finals)?

At least Allen Iverson, Dwayne Wade, Jason Kidd, and Tim Duncan CARRIED THEIR TEAMS.

Magic Johnson was carrying the Lakers since he joined them as a rookie...

[QUOTE=BIZARRO]In answer to your question, taking into account nothing but the nuber of titles with Russell/MJ, and using nothing else the way you are is definitely flawed logic.
Yes, the way you are trying to twist what I am saying turns it into definitely flawed logic. But the fact that you can't understand the actuality of what I am saying, and of the point I am making, regardless of whether you agree with it, shows a lack of objectivity and subtlety.
Isiah, who is underrated on this board IMO, has more titles than Oscar, but is he "better" at winning titles. All things being equal I would say no. You see, you are missing the "all things being equal" point.

Rick Mahorn and Barkley was just a random comparison of two Power forwards,as is Oscar/Isiah with point guard.

[B]And no, Magic is not "clearly" superior to Jordan in that criteria IMO. I would argue that Mike is superior, though I think Magic has an argument.[/B] If I wanted to win titles though, I would go with Mike over Magic more often than not.
To say Magic is "clearly" superior in that criteria is just off base, and the absolute nature of that comment loses it's objectivity.[/QUOTE]


:oldlol: Your delusional.

[QUOTE=eliteballer]:oldlol: Your delusional.[/QUOTE]

You're

[QUOTE=eliteballer]:oldlol: Your delusional.[/QUOTE]

Yes, the "your" pretty much says it all. :facepalm

Michael never lost a series with home court and won 2 titles without it. Not to mention he's 6-0 when making the Finals. But Magic is clearly superior to him. :facepalm

[QUOTE=D.J.]Michael never lost a series with home court and won 2 titles without it. Not to mention he's 6-0 when making the Finals. But Magic is clearly superior to him. :facepalm[/QUOTE]


and Magic never led his team to 5 Losing seasons....

5 outta 9 Finals with 12 Winning seasons> 6 outta 6 Finals with 5 Losing seasons...



next

Suppose I need to count all this up and make the final one....

No clue what is after that. I assume GOAT is still around and not posting for some reason. Guess ill wait for him to do the forward one.

[QUOTE=AlphaWolf24]and Magic never led his team to 5 Losing seasons....

5 outta 9 Finals with 12 Winning seasons> 6 outta 6 Finals with 5 Losing seasons...



next[/QUOTE]


And Magic wasn't putting up 23/6/5 at 39 and 20/6/4 at 40 and taking a garbage Wizards team to a near .500 record. Next.

[QUOTE=AlphaWolf24]and Magic never led his team to 5 Losing seasons....

5 outta 9 Finals with 12 Winning seasons> 6 outta 6 Finals with 5 Losing seasons...



next[/QUOTE]
The only seasons where MJ failed to make the playoffs was when he was with the Wizards. So yeah lets penalize a guy who shouldn't even have been playing at the time. I am assuming your definition of losing is under .500? I don't know why it matters if you make the playoffs though.

Everyone vote for kobe so we can have a jordan vs kobe debate in the next round! :oldlol:

No, seriously though, anyone who thinks kobe was/is a better player than earvin 'magic' johnson needs to get their head examined. :hammerhead:

Kobe might be more 'skilled' (whatever that means) but magic is the greatest playmaker the nba has ever seen. No one in history has raised his teammates level of play to the extent magic did for 12 straight years.

Magic was a also a much better leader and teammate (kobe has improved in this regard in the last 3 1/2 yrs), better in the clutch (yes that's right), a better rebounder and could play all 5 positions. He is the greatest laker of all time.

Kobe is great, but not that great.

[QUOTE=D.J.]And Magic wasn't putting up 23/6/5 at 39 and 20/6/4 at 40 and taking a garbage Wizards team to a near .500 record. Next.[/QUOTE]


and Magic still didn't have 3 Losing seasons .....

Magic was by far a better winner and leader then Jordan....don't even say he wasn't.... you would sound stupid




next

[QUOTE=oolalaa]Everyone vote for kobe so we can have a jordan vs kobe debate in the next round! :oldlol:

No, seriously though, anyone who thinks kobe was/is a better player than earvin 'magic' johnson needs to get their head examined. :hammerhead:

Kobe might be more 'skilled' (whatever that means) but magic is the greatest playmaker the nba has ever seen. No one in history has raised his teammates level of play to the extent magic did for 12 straight years.

Magic was a also a much better leader and teammate (kobe has improved in this regard in the last 3 1/2 yrs), better in the clutch (yes that's right), a better rebounder and could play all 5 positions. He is the greatest laker of all time.

Kobe is great, but not that great.[/QUOTE]


So Magic Johnson and Jerry West need their head examined then???


and all those reasons that you listed Magic as bieng better then Kobe....should defintely put him on the #1 spot then...right?

Magic Johnson is my vote.

Kobe Bryant better than Magic Johnson is a joke.

Magic Johnson

[B]5

Whilst I agree that Magic ranks over Kobe, those declaring it to be "a joke" to have Kobe near him either don't watch the game with any degree of objectivity, or don't watch the game, period.

[QUOTE=JordanTime]Magic Johnson is my vote.

Kobe Bryant better than Magic Johnson is a joke.

Magic Johnson

[B]5

yeah it's magic. not even that close

stats, awards, and championships aside, it basically come down to who would you rather have leading your team: magic or kobe

and is anyone honestly going to pick kobe?

on the jordan comparison....i mean, magic's been my favorite player since i was 9 years old, but you can't argue that he's better than mike. even if jordan didn't have more rings it'd be a nearly impossible argument

i do, however, think the 80's lakers were a better team than the 90's bulls. come at me bro

[QUOTE=AlphaWolf24]
Kobe's should move past Magic.....he already has in the real world.[/QUOTE]
Hmmm... in what way? Most "Greatest All Time" lists I've seen have Magic over Bryant, and even that is completely subjective. Under what criteria?
I think that perhaps when all's said and done, Kobe will probably rank above Magic - but I'm not sure that that's "now". It's very close tho'.