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[QUOTE=KG215]He has a huge edge on the offensive end, too.[/QUOTE]
I'm sure too, but I was point out obvious...but that was probably the closest matchup on paper....that could even exist...because Blake/Chandler definitely not coming close to DRobinson
[QUOTE=eliteballer]Because he had Bynum and Gasol clogging the paint.
Kobe didnt say the 92 team wasn't athletic, [B]he said some of the key guys were a little older[/B].[/QUOTE]
So who other than Magic and Bird were as old as Kobe?
[QUOTE=KG215]
And besides, the 1996 team may have been better than both '08 and '12.[/QUOTE]
As I said in my post:
92 > 96 > 08 > 12
Look at the 1996 roster (this team had it all):
Centers: Shaq, Olajuwon and Robinson (who's stopping that?)
PF's: Malone and Barkley (all time great PF's)
SF's Pippen and Hill (great unselfish playmakers)
SG's: Reggie Miller and Mitch Richmond (shooters who won't ballhog)
PG's: Payton / Penny / Stockton (a defensive monster, a great around athlete and a prototype PG).
Too many people slept on Stockton, because they didn't start really seeing him until the Jazz made the finals when he was in his late 30's...
:lol
That man has taken Michael Jordan to the hole several times, and his steals numbers gives you a nice idea of how good his defense really was when he was not slowed, and exposed by players like Gary Payton.....
[QUOTE=tontoz]So who other than Magic and Bird were as old as Kobe?[/QUOTE]
No one.....
these are exact but...really I see that team as being very well seasoned....
Magic, Bird 12 years
Robinson, 3 years
Stockton, Drexler, Jordan, Barkley 7 years
Malone, Ewing, Mullin 6 years
Pippen 5 years
How old is the 2012 team????
By the way, with Lebron/Kobe/Melo/Durant/Harden/Westbrook all on the same team and with no great offensive big man, I see this as a supercharged version of the current Heat and Thunder as far as playing style goes where they have those problems where they play one on one way too much doing that "your turn, my turn" and the others are standing around (which isn't as much of a problem when they are the most talented teams in the league, but not when they go up against a team like the Dream Team.) Dream Team are much more balanced.
[QUOTE=Lebron23][B]He's the biggest Kobe D1ckrider in this forum.[/B] A 29 yrs.old Jordan will abuse 34 yrs.old Kobe.[/QUOTE]
pot, kettle
kettle, pot
[QUOTE=Callystarr]I'm sure too, but I was point out obvious...but that was probably the closest matchup on paper....that could even exist...because Blake/Chandler definitely not coming close to DRobinson[/QUOTE]
I'm still not sure that's the closest match-up on paper. 1992 prime Ewing was pretty close to even with D-Rob. Both would shit all over 2012 Blake Griffin on both ends of the floor.
I'm trying to think, and probably the closest match-up on paper would be Durant vs. Mullin because that was prime Mullin vs. 23 year old Durant just entering his prime.
Funny thing is Magic Johnson in 1992 was younger than Kobe in 2012. He wasn't past prime really at all. In 1991 he put up 19/12 and led his team to the Finals. I'm pretty sure the HIV was in his system at the time as well, so you can't say him having the virus would make him worse in 1992. The only reason he stopped playing was for safety and fear from the league, and not because of a decline in play.
Bird is the only one you can say was past prime because of his back.
[QUOTE=lakers_forever]I seriously laugh at people who act like Magic was finished. He led the Lakers to the NBA finals the year before the olympics, while averaging 19.4 points, 12.5 assists, and 7.0 rebounds per game (he did not become a scrub in one year because of HIV). Even a fat Magic, years without playing pro ball, averaged 14.6, 5.7 and 6.9 in 96.
Magic Johnson in 91 (he became crap one year later? nah) was a better point guard than Chris Paul ever was.
And Larry Bird, even with a broken back, was still a great player. He averaged 20.2 ppg, 9.6 rpg and 6.8 apg in the 92 season (with 46% fg, 40%3 and 92%ft). I'd take that broken Bird over guys like Anthony, Iguodala and Harden.[/QUOTE]
Magic was forced to retire after that 91' season so actually he was one full season removed from the game prior to the 92 Olympics which could have thrown his game off a tad, but only a tad. But I agree with everything you stated about him, spot on.
As for Bird, he was still a magical player in his own right but he lost a lot with his ailing back. He was able to play through it at times during the season because Bird was a competitor and tough as nails. But taking a broken Bird over those guys? IDK man...... (2seconds later) yeah, I probably would too but if only just for one season.
Shame both their careers prematurely ended the way they did.
[QUOTE=Linspired]can't discuss basketball with dudes who are born in early 90's. seriously.[/QUOTE]
It's very difficult. It's like discussing film, painting, architecture or music with someone who has a very limited background in the field.
It's like a college professor arguing with an uninformed student. Or like a war veteran arguing with a young soldier.
With basketball, unless you go back to watch hundreds of games, "you really had to be there."
Some opinions, by nature, are more valid than others.
Another thing, I hear people saying this team doesn't include players like Dwight Howard, Dwyane Wade, Derrick Rose, etc. Well, people are ignoring that the Dream Team didn't include Hakeem Olajuwon, Isiah Thomas, Dominique Wilkins, etc.
Am I the only one who recalls LeBron and Wade being hesitant to attack the rim whenever old hobbled Garnett was in the game in the past Celtics/Heat series?
What makes you think they'll have better luck vs prime DRob and Ewing on the floor at the same time?:facepalm
The 92 team had enough horses to run a fastbreak (Jordan, Pippen, Drexler, Robinson) and the bigs to crush the 12 in the offensive low post game/rebounds (Barkley, Malone, Robinson, Ewing).
The 92 Dream Team's FC is the difference in my opinion.
PG Jordan
SG Drexler
SF Pippen
PF Robinson
C Ewing
Try to take it to the rim on that line up and watch your shot attempts turn into fastbreaks going the other way.
What is Kobe supposed to say?
"I have no confidence and we will lose to the Dream team" ?
:facepalm
[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]What is Kobe supposed to say?
"I have no confidence and we will lose to the Dream team" ?
:facepalm[/QUOTE]
I'm on the phone with my cousin right now trying to argue this freaking point to him! They're professional athletes! What is he supposed to freaking say!!!!!!
[QUOTE=guy]Another thing, I hear people saying this team doesn't include players like Dwight Howard, Dwyane Wade, Derrick Rose, etc. Well, people are ignoring that the Dream Team didn't include Hakeem Olajuwon, Isiah Thomas, Dominique Wilkins, etc.[/QUOTE]
I'm so sick of people who try to compare era's.
My uncle (59 year old), biggest Knicks fan I know always tells me.
Take Kobe, LeBron, Durant and literally inflate their stats 10-15% and you will find out their statistics in the 80's/early 90's. Take their stats and inflate them by 20-25% to get an idea of how they'd do in 60's/70's. Now why does he say that?
BECAUSE THE GAME AND PLAYERS HAVE EVOLUTIONIZED.
The guy is a student of the game since the mid 60's, he has watched all the greats play for most part. He still says Bill Russell was the greatest ever. He says that because he compares each player relative to their era. It is absolutely foolish to compare players from different era's, because a lot elements change over time. Rules, league parity, condensement of talent, global recognition, physical preparation and even diet.
I tend to agree. How many players in the 80's had insane numbers? How many players shot 50% back in the day? People who say the talent was better back in the day simply are using a cop-out to elevate players like Bird, Jordan etc. to higher levels. It is completely pointless to compare stats across era's, the variables are NOT the same.
Just for curiousity sake, my uncle believes these are the top 5 players of All-Time:
1) Russell
2) Chamberlain
3) Magic Johnson
4) Jordan
5) Kareem Abdul Jabbar
He also says that James is the most impressive athletic basketball player besides Wilt Chamberlain he has ever seen.
My point is, it is very subjective to compare players from different era's so just compare them to players within their own time horizone; who had similar environments and competition around them which includes basketball rules. :cheers:
Oh and one more thing. Michael Jordan is the last person to try and evaluate any kind of talent or another player's ability. Let's be for real. Michael Jordan basically said Adam Morrison was better than Brandon Roy and Rudy Gay. This is the same man that basically said Kwame Brown was better than Gilbert Arenas, Pau Gasol, Tyson Chandler and freaking Joe Johnson! Cmon son. How you gonna listen to him. The only thing he can say is who he's better than. That's about it.
[QUOTE=guy]Another thing, I hear people saying this team doesn't include players like Dwight Howard, Dwyane Wade, Derrick Rose, etc. Well, people are ignoring that the Dream Team didn't include Hakeem Olajuwon, Isiah Thomas, Dominique Wilkins, etc.[/QUOTE]
Huh? Olajuwon wasn't a US citizen yet, and neither Isiah nor 'Nique were better than the players chosen over them by '92.
The only thing you cant compare is the skill level of the euro teams back then vs. now.
[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]What is Kobe supposed to say?
"I have no confidence and we will lose to the Dream team" ?
:facepalm[/QUOTE]
Well, he could've said that a game between those two squads would be a hell of a game and you really can't say for sure who'd win.
instead he gives his reasons as to why the 12 team would win and Barkley and Jordan respond with their opinions as to why they think the 92 team would win.
[QUOTE=Mr Exlax]I'm on the phone with my cousin right now trying to argue this freaking point to him! They're professional athletes! What is he supposed to freaking say!!!!!![/QUOTE]
Your cousin must think you are an idiot. The correct answer is pretty simple.
"I don't know"
[QUOTE=guy]Another thing, I hear people saying this team doesn't include players like Dwight Howard, Dwyane Wade, Derrick Rose, etc. [/QUOTE]
Seriously if they don't play then they don't count.
Dream Team could have easily picked Shaq instead of Laettner. I don't see anyone talking about Shaq as if he was actually on the team.
[QUOTE=rhythmic
Smh at the young-uns who think that the '12 team wouldn't get slaughtered.
[QUOTE=tontoz]Your cousin must think you are an idiot. The correct answer is pretty simple.
"I don't know"[/QUOTE]
No no no. He's saying Kobe is stupid for thinking it and just because Michael Jordan says there's no comparison then he's right. I asked him why would he listen to Michael Jordan's evaluation of talent based on the players he passed up and the players he actually drafted. Follow me?
[QUOTE=Shepseskaf]Smh at the young-uns who think that the '12 team wouldn't get slaughtered.[/QUOTE]
I'm 30 and I don't see how the 2012 team would get "slaughtered". Like where do you see that many advantages that they would get "slaughtered"?
[QUOTE=Indian guy]Huh? Olajuwon wasn't a US citizen yet, and neither Isiah nor 'Nique were better than the players chosen over them by '92.[/QUOTE]
You're right about Hakeem. But it seems like some people are making this more of an argument about era vs. era though, so I thought I'd mention it. If thats not the argument, then people should just stick to what the teams actually were.
They were both clearly better then Laettner. Nique was probably better then Bird in the state he was in. Magic had not played in over a year. And I forgot to mention what it would've been like if they put in Shaq over Laettner.
You guys all know this argument can never ever be proven right?
There is no time machine invented just yet.
[QUOTE=Mr Exlax]No no no. He's saying Kobe is stupid for thinking it and just because Michael Jordan says there's no comparison then he's right. I asked him why would he listen to Michael Jordan's evaluation of talent based on the players he passed up and the players he actually drafted. Follow me?[/QUOTE]
I guess you really are an idiot because this response has no relevance to your original post.
[QUOTE]Originally Posted by Mr Exlax
I'm on the phone with my cousin right now trying to argue this freaking point to him! They're professional athletes! [B]What is he supposed to freaking say[/B]!!!!!![/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=DirtySanchez]You guys all know this argument can never ever be proven right?
There is no time machine invented just yet.[/QUOTE]
It's just so much fun to try to force your will and way of thinking on someone else. The cool thing about ISH is that everybody's so immature so if they disagree with you then you can just call them names or put up those stupid little faces lol.
[QUOTE=AlphaWolf24]Kobe=MJ
Lebron>Barkley
Magic>Westbrook
Durant>Pippen
Robinson>Tyson
(anyone bringing up Bird never watched the olympics....dude was hurt and was barely able to play more then 10 minutes per)
12' Bench>92'
Drexler was basically a worse version of Danny Granger and wouldn't even make the squad in modern times....Ewing didn't even have more moves the Yao Ming...
12' is the better overall squad.[/QUOTE]
Wtf? Alphawolf you get god damn stupider and stupider every single day. Kobe=Jordan? How the hell does Kobe at 33 coming off his 16 season with all those games played, various injuries built up = a 29 year old Jordan coming off his 8th season. Kobe isn't even as good as a 97 when he was 33 or a 98 Jordan when he was 34 right now, yet somehow in your stupid god damn brain they equal eachother out?
Also, I may have always felt Drexler was overrated but to call him a worse version of Danny Granger? WTF!? The Dream Team absolutely destroys the 2012 team as far as defense goes at that. And why are people even talking about athleticism? Jordan, Drexler, Pippen, Barkley, and Robinson are some of the most athletic players EVER at their respective positions.
[QUOTE=tontoz]I guess you really are an idiot because this response has no relevance to your original post.[/QUOTE]
I'll be that because I didn't understand what point you were trying to make when you quoted me the first time. My cousin doesn't think I'm an idiot, but he does think I'm mistaken for thinking that Kobe said the right thing.
[QUOTE=Mr Exlax]I'm 30 and I don't see how the 2012 team would get "slaughtered". Like where do you see that many advantages that they would get "slaughtered"?[/QUOTE]
LOL
DRob/Ewing against Chandler and who?
Malone/Barkley against Bosh and ?
Total mismatches
[QUOTE=Mr Exlax]I'll be that because I didn't understand what point you were trying to make when you quoted me the first time. My cousin doesn't think I'm an idiot, but he does think I'm mistaken for thinking that Kobe said the right thing.[/QUOTE]
Did you even read your original post?
You said what is Kobe supposed to say to that question? The answer is to simply say i don't know. It isn't complex.
[QUOTE=Mr Exlax]It's just so much fun to try to force your will and way of thinking on someone else. The cool thing about ISH is that everybody's so immature so if they disagree with you then you can just call them names or put up those stupid little faces lol.[/QUOTE]
Ha true...
I just love how everybody acts like their opinions are fact.
My opinion on this...I have no clue who would win. I am a product of the 80's and 90's so of course I'm bias to those guys. But to say our current team would have no chance is just nonsense.
[QUOTE=tontoz]LOL
DRob/Ewing against Chandler and who?
Malone/Barkley against Bosh and ?
Total mismatches[/QUOTE]
I don't know if DRob & Ewing are just gonna score with the greatest of ease against Chandler. Chandler won't get shut down by them because most of his points are gonna come from the rebounds and dump off passes for easy dunks anyway.
Malone and Barkley both are gonna buttrape Bosh on offense, but how are they going to stop him on defense? They're both too short and slower than him.
So that's enough to slaughter them? Who's gonna stop Lebron? Pippen? Pippen is weaker, shorter, lighter, slower than Lebron. Jordan will eat Kobe because it's the old Kobe, it's a toss up at the PG position to me. I'll give it to 2012 because the players are bigger, stronger and faster. Oh and they have DWill.
[QUOTE=Mr Exlax]I'm 30 and I don't see how the 2012 team would get "slaughtered". Like where do you see that many advantages that they would get "slaughtered"?[/QUOTE]
Its embarrassing to actually have to discuss this. Just look at the frontcourts and that should give you all the answers you need.
There isn't a single area where the '12 team is vastly superior than the '92 team, but plenty going the other way.
Sorry, but MJ is right, there is no comparison.
As a backdrop, I've recently wanted several of the '08 team's games, and all eight of the Dream Team games. When the '92 team got revved up, they would slaughter any team in the history of the game.
its just that simple.
[QUOTE=Mr Exlax]I'm 30 and I don't see how the 2012 team would get "slaughtered". Like where do you see that many advantages that they would get "slaughtered"?[/QUOTE]
Front Court
Basketball is still a big man's game, it's become smaller because of the dearth in the C position in today's NBA but back then the 92 team had prime Robinson and Ewing, who you gonna put on them?LBJ or KLove:oldlol:
The low post scoring game is also becoming a lost art and the 92 team has some of the greatest low post players ever, those tend to be easy buckets.
12 team has horses who can get out there but let's not pretend MJ, Pip, Clyde and the Admiral couldn't run. The '92 team's FC is their advantage and it's big one.
Some good debates on here, but really... 1996 Team should be talked about more vs 1992 Team.
I don't think this team is better than the 2008 Redeem Team either.
There's a lot overrating and underrating on both sides as well.
[QUOTE]Yeah because Jordan isn't probably the [B]single most overrated player of All-Time.[/B][/QUOTE]
Karl Malone says hi.
[QUOTE]You're the only one who watched this video and actually understood Kobe's comments. He was asked a question, and everybody's making it seem like he came out of the blue dissing the dream team. Is it a bad thing to say that they'd have a CHANCE to win?[/QUOTE]
I think it's because he answered some of those questions wrong about the dream team. The age and athletic ability, etc... It's cool, I'm assuming Kobe didn't google search all that data, considering most real NBA players don't have time for that stuff.
[QUOTE]Am I the only one who believes that the Redeem Team > 12' Team? The comparison should be Redeem Team vs Dream Team.[/QUOTE]
Right on.
But really, it should also be vs the 96 Team.
96 Team vs 08 Redeem Team and 96 Team vs 12 Team ? Who you got in 7 ?
[QUOTE]Smh at the young-uns who think that the '12 team wouldn't get slaughtered.[/QUOTE]
It would certinally be competitive. It would at least go 6 games in a 7 game series.
[QUOTE]Huh? Olajuwon wasn't a US citizen yet, and neither Isiah nor 'Nique were better than the players chosen over them by '92.[/QUOTE]
I can understand Zeke because there was a lot of hate on him from the other players, but you can argue Wilkins over Mullin, yes ? And hell, over Bird's bad back, but I can see the reason why they took Bird over him.
[QUOTE]DRob/Ewing against Chandler and who?
Malone/Barkley against Bosh and ?
Total mismatches[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but I also think they would be mismatches from the guard and SF play too.
Ultimately, Dream Team wins, but I don't it would be THAT much of a beating.
I just don't see them getting "slaughtered". I see the frontcourt domination, but you guys are talking like Chandler isn't a defensive force. Remember, they don't need him to score. JUST PLAY DEFENSE. He's gonna go balls to the wall strictly on defense.