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I can't think of anywhere I saw Kobe being mentioned as 11th-13th all-time in 2008. Maybe in your mind and the mind of other Kobe stans, but I don't think any credible all-time top 25/50/100 list had Kobe in their top 15 in 2008. He was more in the 20-25 range at that point.
[QUOTE=AlphaWolf24]I'm just curious how the most dominant player of alltime (Wilt) get's put behind players like MJ , Kareem etc....for bieng labeled a "choker"...."didn't win as much as MJ" blah...blah...blah...
but Lebron James quits on a 63 win team (back 2 back 63 win team) and puts up the biggest choke job in NBA History.....and he moves up at minimum 15 spots????....[/QUOTE]
I dont look into that criteria "choker" unless ofcourse that player choked most or half of his career, fact is ALL players in NBA history "choked" at one point.... its perfectly natural to not play like a GOD 24-7....
But "Wilt didnt accomplish as much as MJ", is a very true statement i would say...
As far as Lebron goes, sigh... Winning 63 games in a regular season means absolutely nothing, its in the Playoffs where the best teams reveal themselves, in 7 games the opposing team can easily figure you out... and figuring out that 63 win Cavs team was particulary easy... just double-triple team Lebron, dont allow him to get anywhere near the basket whatsoever, let everybody else beat ya... and he didnt have the supporting cast to let "everybody else beat ya"...
Lebron put up biggest choke job in History? Not even close... hell even my favorite player of all time played worse once in the Finals with two back to back 8 point games and just overall horrible productions by his standards (Larry Bird in 1981, where Maxwell won the FMVP and they won the championship anyways), how about Tragic Magic? How about Wilt Chamberlain? How about your man Kobe Bryant, remember when he averaged 14 ppg in 2000 Finals? How about Kobe in 2004? Many more examples.... I dont discredit any of them, im just retaliating your ridicilous statement.... but you are a famous Lebron hater, so i did expect that... The numbers Lebron put up in that Finals 18-7-7 @ 48% FG is what Magic Johnson won championships with.... but by Lebrons standards that indeed is nothing special...
calling Lebron a choker for playing 2-4 bad games in the Finals and forget everything else he did is absolutely stupid... thats only a wish, a typical wish from a Lebron hater...
Whats funny is that you are a Kobe fan, who is a guy that was much less efficient in that department... want some facts on that? Believe me it will hurt you... If Lebron is a choker, than Kobe is even more of a choker...
Here is something for you:
37-97 .360% in game 7's
38-108 .352% in title winning games
41% in 37 finals games
66-163 .400% to win finals mvp.. lowest fg% for any Finals MVP
14-56 .250% game winning shots
yup
Kobe
[img]http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/Lebron-GWinners-Playoffs.png[/img]
[img]http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/Kobe-GWinners-Playoffs.png[/img]
A Kobe fan calling Lebron a choker or not clutch is the most funniest thing on earth...
Elgin Baylor
[IMG]http://www.ginuwine.com/style/common/images/coverArt.jpg[/IMG]
LeBron James over West, Oscar, Karl and Moses Malone etc. is blasphemy.
Idoit kids man...
If his career ended today he would not be over those guys.
[QUOTE=Dave3]So it was 3 votes away and you ended it? You had no problem making other threads longer under the excuse that it was close before, and now you end threads with a 3 vote difference. That's some crazy obvious bias.[/QUOTE]
It was left up the longest between the top 5.
#11 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops Voting
37- Lebron James
16- Jerry West
11- Oscar Robertson
2- Isiah Thomas
1- David Robinson
1- Charles Barkley
1- Elgin Baylor
[QUOTE=crisoner]LeBron James over West, Oscar, Karl and Moses Malone etc. is blasphemy.
Idoit kids man...
If his career ended today he would not be over those guys.[/QUOTE]
Don't know if he would, but he should. Just because they're legends doesn't mean they're to be regarded higher on the AT list.
[quote=AlphaWolf24]
- before 09' he was already a [b]3X NBA Champion[/b] and top 10 scorer in NBA History (pretty sure) 12X allstar and 8 - 9 X all NBA / all NBA Defensive player..(somewhere around there)...(not even mentioning all the iconic moments in fans memories...81...9 str8 40 point games , buzzer beaters etc.)
I think in 08' he was around 11 - 13th alltime...
- since then he won 2 more Titles.....and moved up into the top 5 - 7th place.....
- Lebron wins 1 after a horrific 2011' finals and moves up 15 - 20 spots???[/quote]
It was an rhethorical question actually, but anyway, what I was trying to say was exactly that there was winning a(multiple) championships inbetween.
I think actually, same for Kobe and Lebron, people had an hypothetical spot for the respective player in their minds before they won(in case of Kobe as the clear cut 1st option). I guess many people had Lebron in their mind already in the 15 greatest range if he won, and he won. Same for Kobe as an top 10 player AT if he won #4 as the 1st option. They both did it and so their once hypothetical spots were justified for those guys putting them there in the first place.
Came here to check in and rebut whatever response Pauk's abnormally elevated levels of dedication to Lebron drove him to, but alas, KG215 and KBlaze have said everything that could truly be said to address Pauk's tactics. Cheers to the whims of men of intellect :applause:
Pauk, as KG215 reiterated, though it is my own opinion that Jerry West is the 11th greatest player of all time (and Lebron is 12th), my issue is not your vote or opinion. It is that are quite manipulative in your manuvering on this site, and molding of facts. That is why I and many others label you a Lebron stan, and will continue to do so until you relinquish your tainted efforts of shoving Lebron's perceived greatness down our throats. Because, all of you "stans" are alike in that. It's not [I]what[/I] you believe, but how you go about justifying that belief. You and a poster like Kennethgriffin only differ in your tactics. Griffin attempts to abruptly and annoyingly push his agenda, while you attempt to be cunning and conspicuous. But, the same flawed judgement is shared by both of you. Not the judgement that suggests Kobe is Top 5 All Time, or Lebron will be the GOAT. It is your judgement that allows you to go on for 15 pages ignoring and then defending your reasoning behind using insignificant or incomparable achievements.
You also are flawed in your vision that anyone who doesn't think Lebron is the greatest player the Earth has ever welcomed and simultaneously doesn't think Kobe is the worst player to ever live is a "hater" or "Kobe nut hugger." Posters like myself, KG215, and others call it how we see it, as best as we can and as impartial as we can be. It doesn't mean we share the same opinions on every facet of basketball, but we are honest in our approach, something you clearly are not. I have routinely said Kobe is currently not higher than #7 on the All Time list - I have him #8 on mine - but no lower than #10. Which is a truth I'm sure you'd readily accept if it didn't mean that the player you wish of all things to be the greatest of all time in every individual's mind would have to achieve more to surpass, like all the other greats he would have to (and one day will). But, because someone doesn't believe Lebron is the god of basketball gods, you make every attempt to discredit them and any player that is in Lebron's career's peripheral vision.
I've seen you say things like Lebron had as good competition this year as Bird did in 84. Good god man, it's ashame someone can sometimes be so knowledgable as you can be at times, and yet so utterly skewed in your perspective that the ignorance bell rings every time you touch a keyboard.
Lebron is a great player and will be even greater as time goes on. He doesn't need virtual ghosts like you to hoist him up in any ill-mannered way; you, like the other player-based fanatics on this board, afford him more harm than good when doing so.
That is all.
[QUOTE=pauk]Tragic Magic[/QUOTE]
*Tragic Johnson.
[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]Current Results
[B]
36- Lebron James[/B]
16- Jerry West
11- Oscar Robertson
2- Isiah Thomas
1- David Robinson
1- Charles Barkley
1- Elgin Baylor[/QUOTE]
:biggums:
Noof - West
Longhornfan1234 - Moses
arifgokcen - Lebron
coin24 - Moses
Quickening - Lebron
LosBulls - Lebron
DirtySanchez - Oscar
East_Stone_Ye - Isiah
TalvsCual - D.Robinson
alenleomessi - Lebron
RoundMound - Barkley
Harison - West
Lebron23 - Lebron
Horatio33 - West
KingJames99 - Lebron
SuckaFree - Lebron
Kobe143 - West
INDI - Oscar
G.O.A.T - Oscar
brownmamba00 - West
raiderfan19 - Lebron
Alan Ogg - Lebron
DaSeba5 - Lebron
iDunk - West
CarlosBoozer - Lebron
Dragonyeuw - Lebron
Dg#8 - Moses
raid09 - Lebron
raprap - Oscar
Lakers_Forever - Moses
WhiteMamba - Moses
RRR3 - Lebron
oolala - West
lilgodfather1 - Lebron
BruceLeeBowen - Lebron
Sarcastic - Oscar
scandisk - Oscar
Sakkreth - Lebron
franchiez - Oscar
Pauk - Lebron
Kingbeasley08 - Lebron
Duncan21mvp - Moses
Mr_Clutch_Melo - Lebron
Nash - Lebron
BoutPractice - Lebron
Riseagainst - Oscar
Heavincent - Moses
PyrrhusX - Oscar
po3try - Lebron
Pushxx - Oscar
Heilige - Lebron
DaHeezy - Oscar? (big mo, a typo maybe)
Mirko Cro Cop - Lebron
Lakersfan2046 - Oscar
SpecialQue - Moses
sagr32 - Lebron
StateOfMind12 - Lebron
KennethGriffin - Lebron
Freedom Kid7 - West
LongLiveTheKing - Lebron
KG215 - West
BigTicket - Lebron
AK47DR91 - Lebron
Colbertnation64 - West
Igotacoolstory - Isiah
Lorddragoonx1x - Lebron?
MrWarrior - West
Magnax1 - Moses
hanginintheair - Oscar
SillkkTheShocker - Lebron
KrazyMofo - West
fsvr54 - Moses
waseem780 - Lebron
Deuce Bigalow - Lebron
no pun intended - West
jalbert009 - Oscar
Punpun - Oscar
AlonzoGOAT - Lebron
BrickingStar - Lebron
1987 Lakers - West
Clifton - Lebron
lilblingy - West
L.Kizzle - Baylor
RoundMoundofReb - Lebron
LEBRON - 38 (39?)
OSCAR - 14 (15?)
WEST - 14
MOSES - 11
OSCAR -
ISIAH - 2
D.ROBINSON - 1
BARKLEY - 1
Just helping you out Deuce... :)
(AS OF POST #213)
[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]It was left up the longest between the top 5.[/QUOTE]
So? In the playoff runs thread you allowed the LeBron vs. Bird one to go DAYS longer than any other one. All other votes were very big margins except for the two involving Wilt. Once again, your agenda is obvious. You're not really fooling anyone. It's ok to admit it, it just defeats the purpose of having a vote if you're going to be deciding who wins.
Moses Malone or Lebron i'll go with lebron;
@ pauk, Posters need to have 100 posts to vote, and 'big mo' is probably Moses Malone.
[QUOTE=Dave3]So? In the playoff runs thread you allowed the LeBron vs. Bird one to go DAYS longer than any other one. All other votes were very big margins except for the two involving Wilt. Once again, your agenda is obvious. You're not really fooling anyone. It's ok to admit it, it just defeats the purpose of having a vote if you're going to be deciding who wins.[/QUOTE]
That's because votes wouldn't stop coming in that thread.
The last vote in the #5 thread came in at 10:55 AM. I created the next thread at 12:06. An hour and 11 minutes without a single vote during the day.
[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=275200&page=14[/url]
And no I don't decide who wins :facepalm Do I have 60 accounts or something? Get a grip.
[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]That's because votes wouldn't stop coming in that thread.
The last vote that came in was at 10:55 AM. I created the next thread at 12:06. An hour and 11 minutes without a single vote during the day.
[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=275200&page=14[/url]
And no I don't decide who wins :facepalm Do I have 60 accounts or something? Get a grip.[/QUOTE]
Alright, now link me to the LeBron and Bird thread. I'm positive there was over an hour gap in there.
Edit: Just checked. There were multilple hour+ gaps in the LeBron/Bird thread without votes. They happened when LeBron was in the lead, but you refused to tally them up. Again, it's not like I'm the only one noticing this, everyone else noticed it too, so it's not like we're all just making things up.
[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]@ pauk, Posters need to have 100 posts to vote, and 'big mo' is probably Moses Malone.[/QUOTE]
You are the boss.
[QUOTE=Dave3]Alright, now link me to the LeBron and Bird thread. I'm positive there was over an hour gap in there.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, and Bird had a 6 vote lead, so I moved on.
[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]Yeah, and Bird had a 6 vote lead, so I moved on.[/QUOTE]
Read the above. LeBron had multiple leads with hours in between of no voting (and he had more votes than a lot of the places between 1-8) but you wouldn't tally it up for some "mysterious" reason.
[QUOTE=Dave3]Read the above. LeBron had multiple leads with hours in between of no voting (and he had more votes than a lot of the places between 1-8) but you wouldn't tally it up for some "mysterious" reason.[/QUOTE]
Keep reaching :oldlol:
I'm not surprised LeBron is going to win, because I can live with that. I am surprised by how easily he is winning, to an extent. I'm guessing it has mostly to do with 99.9% of the posters on ISH, like myself, not being alive during the Russell/Wilt/West/Robertson/Baylor era; or even during Moses Malone's era for that matter. And I also think it has something to do with some posters being "prisoners of the moment."
This is what I did for my vote but, like I said, I can understand the argument for LeBron at #11 after his 2012 playoff run; but, fast forward 15 years to 2027. LeBron is out of the league, has 3-4 MVPs, 1 Championship, 1 Finals MVP, 5-7 more All-Star appearances, 5-6 more All-NBA selections, and 3-5 more All-Defensive Team selections. Is he still unquestionably the 11th best player all-time? To the same extents that he'd get more votes by ISH posters as Jerry West and Oscar Robertson combined?
Yes, right now with him at just 27 years old, we can sit here and say he'll win another championship or two or three, and he'll add another handful of All-NBA and All-Defense selections, but that's trying to predict the future; and I think for something like this, you have to go with what the players have done up to this point and not what you think they'll do down the line coupled with what they've already done.
Again, it's not that LeBron [I]is[/I] winning, it's with the ease that he's winning. His resume is already top 12-15 all-time worthy. His peak has been arguably one of the 3-5 best in NBA history and he's got a dominant playoff run en-route to a championship and Finals MVP under his belt.
[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]Keep reaching :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
That would be a decent response If I was the only one who thought so. But when everyone who was reading the thread notices it too and calls you out for it, it's more than just me, and it's more than just reaching. If you're going to do something, at least have the balls to man up to what you do instead of avoiding it like a coward. People read threads, and people aren't stupid. People see what's going on and notice. When people see the closest vote had Wilt losing by 3 votes (and you're known to hate Wilt) then they see how long a different vote dragged on because LeBron was winning by 7 votes in a thread you claim "the votes wouldn't stop coming in" but they in fact did stop coming in, for twice the amount of time they stopped in the Wilt thread, and you saw the need to keep that one going but end the Wilt one.
Simple fact is, you can't explain that objectively to anyone with a brain, so be a man and admit it. Or you can continue to dance around the subject, use laughing smilies and empty phrases, and look like a fool to everyone reading. Your choice.
[quote=pauk]Noof - West
Longhornfan1234 - Moses
arifgokcen - Lebron
coin24 - Moses
Quickening - Lebron
LosBulls - Lebron
DirtySanchez - Oscar
East_Stone_Ye - Isiah
TalvsCual - D.Robinson
alenleomessi - Lebron
RoundMound - Barkley
Harison - West
Lebron23 - Lebron
Horatio33 - West
KingJames99 - Lebron
SuckaFree - Lebron
Kobe143 - West
INDI - Oscar
G.O.A.T - Oscar
brownmamba00 - West
raiderfan19 - Lebron
Alan Ogg - Lebron
DaSeba5 - Lebron
iDunk - West
CarlosBoozer - Lebron
Dragonyeuw - Lebron
Dg#8 - Moses
raid09 - Lebron
raprap - Oscar
Lakers_Forever - Moses
WhiteMamba - Moses
RRR3 - Lebron
oolala - West
lilgodfather1 - Lebron
BruceLeeBowen - Lebron
Sarcastic - Oscar
scandisk - Oscar
Sakkreth - Lebron
franchiez - Oscar
Pauk - Lebron
Kingbeasley08 - Lebron
Duncan21mvp - Moses
Mr_Clutch_Melo - Lebron
Nash - Lebron
BoutPractice - Lebron
Riseagainst - Oscar
Heavincent - Moses
PyrrhusX - Oscar
po3try - Lebron
Pushxx - Oscar
Heilige - Lebron
DaHeezy - Oscar? (big mo, a typo maybe)
Mirko Cro Cop - Lebron
Lakersfan2046 - Oscar
SpecialQue - Moses
[B] sagr32 - Lebron[/B]
StateOfMind12 - Lebron
KennethGriffin - Lebron
Freedom Kid7 - West
LongLiveTheKing - Lebron
KG215 - West
BigTicket - Lebron
AK47DR91 - Lebron
Colbertnation64 - West
Igotacoolstory - Isiah
Lorddragoonx1x - Lebron?
MrWarrior - West
Magnax1 - Moses
hanginintheair - Oscar
SillkkTheShocker - Lebron
KrazyMofo - West
fsvr54 - Moses
waseem780 - Lebron
Deuce Bigalow - Lebron
no pun intended - West
jalbert009 - Oscar
Punpun - Oscar
AlonzoGOAT - Lebron
BrickingStar - Lebron
1987 Lakers - West
Clifton - Lebron
lilblingy - West
L.Kizzle - Baylor
RoundMoundofReb - Lebron
LEBRON - 38 (39?)
OSCAR - 14 (15?)
WEST - 14
MOSES - 11
OSCAR -
ISIAH - 2
D.ROBINSON - 1
BARKLEY - 1
Just helping you out Deuce... :)
(AS OF POST #213)[/quote]Not that it matters now since lebron seemingly has it locked up but I voted for oscar not Lebron
[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7720685&postcount=98[/url]
[QUOTE=Dave3]That would be a decent response If I was the only one who thought so. But when everyone who was reading the thread notices it too and calls you out for it, it's more than just me, and it's more than just reaching. If you're going to do something, at least have the balls to man up to what you do instead of avoiding it like a coward. People read threads, and people aren't stupid. People see what's going on and notice. When people see the closest vote had Wilt losing by 3 votes (and you're known to hate Wilt) then they see how long a different vote dragged on because LeBron was winning by 7 votes in a thread you claim "the votes wouldn't stop coming in" but they in fact did stop coming in, for twice the amount of time they stopped in the Wilt thread, and you saw the need to keep that one going but end the Wilt one.
Simple fact is, you can't explain that objectively to anyone with a brain, so be a man and admit it. Or you can continue to dance around the subject, use laughing smilies and empty phrases, and look like a fool to everyone reading. Your choice.[/QUOTE]
You and RRR3 are the only people who thinks I'm "rigging" this shit. And you don't want to be mentioned with RRR3.
[QUOTE=Dave3]That would be a decent response If I was the only one who thought so. But when everyone who was reading the thread notices it too and calls you out for it, it's more than just me, and it's more than just reaching. If you're going to do something, at least have the balls to man up to what you do instead of avoiding it like a coward. People read threads, and people aren't stupid. People see what's going on and notice. When people see the closest vote had Wilt losing by 3 votes (and you're known to hate Wilt) then they see how long a different vote dragged on because LeBron was winning by 7 votes in a thread you claim "the votes wouldn't stop coming in" but they in fact did stop coming in, for twice the amount of time they stopped in the Wilt thread, and you saw the need to keep that one going but end the Wilt one.
Simple fact is, you can't explain that objectively to anyone with a brain, so be a man and admit it. Or you can continue to dance around the subject, use laughing smilies and empty phrases, and look like a fool to everyone reading. Your choice.[/QUOTE]
Woah
[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]You and RRR3 are the only people who thinks I'm "rigging" this shit. And you don't want to be mentioned with RRR3.[/QUOTE]
You know this is false. In this thread alone another poster I don't know called you out for it as well. And in the Playoff runs thread many many more did as well, which is something you already know, so why make up that it's just me and one other poster? And those are just the ones that posted that at the time. There are probably a lot more that saw it and didn't bother posting about it. I noticed it at the time and said nothing because it was obvious. I only brought it up now because I saw it happening again and was using it for comparison. Again, people aren't blind. They see what's going on, and you're not fooling anyone with an IQ over 85.
[QUOTE=Dave3]You know this is false. In this thread alone another poster I don't know called you out for it as well. And in the Playoff runs thread many many more did as well, which is something you already know, so why make up that it's just me and one other poster? And those are just the ones that posted that at the time. There are probably a lot more that saw it and didn't bother posting about it. I noticed it at the time and said nothing because it was obvious. I only brought it up now because I saw it happening again and was using it for comparison. Again, people aren't blind. They see what's going on, and you're not fooling anyone with an IQ over 85.[/QUOTE]
I'm being honest here, I did not in any way try to rig the Bird vs Wilt thread.
I know you won't believe me anyways, but that's the truth.
[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]I'm being honest here, I did not in any way try to rig the Bird vs Wilt thread.
I know you won't believe me anyways, but that's the truth.[/QUOTE]
But you understand why I (or others) wouldn't believe you. It looks very much that you did, especially in addition to what happened in other threads and your perpetual bias/hate against Wilt.
[QUOTE=Dave3]But you understand why I (or others) wouldn't believe you. It looks very much that you did, especially in addition to what happened in other threads and your perpetual bias/hate against Wilt.[/QUOTE]
If you read through all the replies on the voting threads you would know that I asked if I was moving to fast from # to #. And a poster by the name of Horatio33 said that I was since he lives overseas obviously meaning there's a time difference so he would be sleeping while one of the threads is going on and finished. So since then I started giving threads more time for the posters outside the US, except #10 since it's wasn't even close. And btw I don't hate Wilt, I hate jlauber's biased posts on Wilt, if you argued something against Wilt you would know what I mean.
@BlackVVaves
Those "tactics" were just assumed by you and your henchmen of dazzling intellect who were "intellectual" enough to assume i was naive enough to use POTM/DPOY as my "tactics to catapult Lebron over others" (understandably so as i maybe shouldnt have pasted in the POTM thingy), properly corrected the confusion later by simply saying that was not my intention, that i just pasted in all the NBA awards and that you and me can all just forget about POTM/DPOY, get it? Forget about DPOY/POTM....
When you voted for Jerry West i only asked why, what is the criteria used for your decision? Thats all i asked for, I respect your opinion, have absolutely nothing against it, but i as a basketball fan only am/was interested to know why, hinting at an attempt of me and you sharing some basketball knowledge, thats all... Nothing wrong with that... or is it?
...and you still havent answered me on this subject and you dont have to...
As far as you derailing our main topic in question by constantly hailing me as a Lebron stan. Look, its no secret i like Lebron and that i like to talk about Lebron, if that is a reason enough for you to call me a Lebron stan that "shoves down his greatness upon your throats" then so be it, but remember i at least did that with authenticity, at the end of the day you most likely felt displeasure as what i presented to you thoroughly examinates your opposite opinion.
I dont mind you calling me a Lebron stan, but i mind when you question my credibility and factualness and i mind when you question my objective and intention and most importantly i mind when you compare me to a very annoying, obnoxious, degrading Lebron hating poster that probably thinks Kobe is the goat and that uses only delusional non factual opinions as his weapon and that ignores anything else.... which according to you were all features you questioned about me and all were actually erratic and somewhat comical...
Problem with posters like you is that you are either clandestinaly and intellectually hiding your awe for in this case Lebron or that your are viciously cemented with the past and therefore condemn anything that questions your decision, even if it is as factual and genuine as what i presented for you (i guess the latter).... this is a dilemma i myself suffered from aswell...
Complication with majority of other posters here is that they are young, which is not a crime and which i dont have anything against, but this most often means fractional basketball knowledge, one-sidedness in terms of basketball players and therefore treat another player as an object of extreme dislike and Lebron is the biggest such object in this forum...
If these "problems" didnt exist, then me being here oh so horribly dismaying you with what Lebron has done and desperately trying to reconstruct the flawed thoughts aimed upon any subject (including Lebron) with credible and factual hypothesis then me, you and everybody else would not be in this forum....
That is all....
[QUOTE=sagr32]Not that it matters now since lebron seemingly has it locked up but I voted for oscar not Lebron
[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7720685&postcount=98[/url][/QUOTE]
I apologise, dont worry Deuce has this covered more accurately.
LBJ
oscar robertson
Eh at least Deuce didn't rig it in favor of LBJ this time. Still rigged it to prevent Wilt from winning tho:coleman:
moses
[IMG]http://blog.loispaul.com/.a/6a00d83452b15969e2014e5f965528970c-800wi[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y28/EbInfinite/lebron-flop-2.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.eightpointsnineseconds.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/lebron-flop-pacers.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.sportsgeekery.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/lebron-flop-3.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1125565/flop.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/HBKid/mj-laughing.gif[/IMG]
[QUOTE=kNicKz][IMG]http://blog.loispaul.com/.a/6a00d83452b15969e2014e5f965528970c-800wi[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y28/EbInfinite/lebron-flop-2.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.eightpointsnineseconds.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/lebron-flop-pacers.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.sportsgeekery.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/lebron-flop-3.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1125565/flop.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/HBKid/mj-laughing.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]
:roll:
pauk, you don't see how some of the stuff you said today can be misleading?
[QUOTE=Duncan21formvp]How was Moses Malone never the best player? Who was the best player in 83?
[QUOTE=pauk]The triple double averaging Magic Johnson who just came of two championships and 2 FMVPs.... Then the 31-6-5 @ 56% FG Adrian Dantley made it tough to, Larry Bird, Kareem, George Gervin, Bernard King and so on..
Choosing the best player in that season was not as easy choosing the best player this season...[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
Moses (and the 76ers) owned the NBA that year going 65-17 and almost pulling off the "Fo, Fo, Fo" Malone predicted. Not only that, but the guy I think you're saying was the best player in the league that year (Magic) got swept by Malone's team in the Finals, and Malone was the better player between the two in the series. Sorry, but you're probably not finding many people in the summer of 1983 that would've told you someone other than Moses Malone was the best player in the NBA after they swept the Lakers in the Finals.
It'd kind of be like me (or anyone else) trying to say LeBron wasn't the best player in 2012 and, instead, saying Durant was. It's not anything big, and I know you're "not using that specific thing to catapult LeBron over anyone" but it still comes off as manipulative given your LeBron affinity.
[QUOTE=pauk]......................Lebron............Oscar..............West..........
MVP...................3...................1....................0..............
FMVP..................1..................0....................1...............
CHAMP...............1(the man).....1(sidekick)......1(sidekick)..
ROTY................Yes................Yes.................No.............
DPOY..............RunnerUp.........No..................No.............
1st All-NBA.........6...................9...................10.............
1st All-Def..........4...................0....................4..............
All-Star MVP........2...................3...................1..............
All-Star..............8...................12.................14..............
POTM................20..................0...................0...............
Best Player?.......Yes..............Never.............Never...........
[QUOTE=TheMarkMadsen]So if you're going to count when Lebron was a runner up, don't you think you should count that for everybody else?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=pauk]I do and they were not DPOY runner ups... :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]
I mean you can't even see, just a tiny little bit, how manipulative this looks? You can say that wasn't your intention or what you were doing all you want but, after that exchange with TheMarkMadsen, it's almost impossible to think otherwise.
Again, this is something small but it's hard to see it as anything but you pushing a LeBron driven agenda. Given the large margin of victory it probably had almost zero influence on the vote for #11. I think there's enough LeBron fans and younger NBA fans on ISH, that the other players vying for this spot who played in the 60s didn't really stand much of a chance; and like I said, LeBron has a good case for #11 to begin with.
[QUOTE=pauk]@BlackVVaves
Those "tactics" were just assumed by you and your henchmen of dazzling intellect who were "intellectual" enough to assume i was naive enough to use POTM/DPOY as my "tactics to catapult Lebron over others" (understandably so as i maybe shouldnt have pasted in the POTM thingy), properly corrected the confusion later by simply saying that was not my intention, that i just pasted in all the NBA awards and that you and me can all just forget about POTM/DPOY, get it? Forget about DPOY/POTM....
When you voted for Jerry West i only asked why, what is the criteria used for your decision? Thats all i asked for, I respect your opinion, have absolutely nothing against it, but i as a basketball fan only am/was interested to know why, hinting at an attempt of me and you sharing some basketball knowledge, thats all... Nothing wrong with that... or is it?
...and you still havent answered me on this subject and you dont have to...
As far as you derailing our main topic in question by constantly hailing me as a Lebron stan. Look, its no secret i like Lebron and that i like to talk about Lebron, if that is a reason enough for you to call me a Lebron stan that "shoves down his greatness upon your throats" then so be it, but remember i at least did that with authenticity, at the end of the day you most likely felt displeasure as what i presented to you thoroughly examinates your opposite opinion.
I dont mind you calling me a Lebron stan, but i mind when you question my credibility and factualness and i mind when you question my objective and intention and most importantly i mind when you compare me to a very annoying, obnoxious, degrading Lebron hating poster that probably thinks Kobe is the goat and that uses only delusional non factual opinions as his weapon and that ignores anything else.... which according to you were all features you questioned about me and all were actually erratic and somewhat comical...
Problem with posters like you is that you are either clandestinaly and intellectually hiding your awe for in this case Lebron or that your are viciously cemented with the past and therefore condemn anything that questions your decision, even if it is as factual and genuine as what i presented for you (i guess the latter).... this is a dilemma i myself suffered from aswell...
Complication with majority of other posters here is that they are young, which is not a crime and which i dont have anything against, but this most often means fractional basketball knowledge, one-sidedness in terms of basketball players and therefore treat another player as an object of extreme dislike and Lebron is the biggest such object in this forum...
If these "problems" didnt exist, then me being here oh so horribly dismaying you with what Lebron has done and desperately trying to reconstruct the flawed thoughts aimed upon any subject (including Lebron) with credible and factual hypothesis then me, you and everybody else would not be in this forum....
That is all....[/QUOTE]
Someone is having way too much fun with a thesaurus :lol
[QUOTE=KG215]pauk, you don't see how some of the stuff you said today can be misleading?
Moses (and the 76ers) owned the NBA that year going 65-17 and almost pulling off the "Fo, Fo, Fo" Malone predicted. Not only that, but the guy I think you're saying was the best player in the league that year (Magic) got swept by Malone's team in the Finals, and Malone was the better player between the two in the series. Sorry, but you're probably not finding many people in the summer of 1983 that would've told you someone other than Moses Malone was the best player in the NBA after they swept the Lakers in the Finals.
It'd kind of be like me (or anyone else) trying to say LeBron wasn't the best player in 2012 and, instead, saying Durant was. It's not anything big, and I know you're "not using that specific thing to catapult LeBron over anyone" but it still comes off as manipulative given your LeBron affinity.
I mean you can't even see, just a tiny little bit, how manipulative this looks? You can say that wasn't your intention or what you were doing all you want but, after that exchange with TheMarkMadsen, it's almost impossible to think otherwise.
Again, this is something small but it's hard to see it as anything but you pushing a LeBron driven agenda. Given the large margin of victory it probably had almost zero influence on the vote for #11. I think there's enough LeBron fans and younger NBA fans on ISH, that the other players vying for this spot who played in the 60s didn't really stand much of a chance; and like I said, LeBron has a good case for #11 to begin with.[/QUOTE]
I do see how it can be misleading, but manipulative? My intention with that post is to show you their accomplishments and if that manipulates you to do a more concrete decision, then great... thats my intention, to give you something to complete an accurate decision (if you are not to lazy you can find it yourself, google is your friend).. even tho i showed those accomplishments its not me who is manipulative in that case, but those accomplishments... dont hate me, hate the player that had the audacity to accomplish those feats or hate the website that posted them... :P
PS: Magic won 2 championships, 2 fmvps averaging triple double type of numbers (averaged 20-9-11 in those Finals) just before Moses won his... so no it wouldnt be like you saying Durant was better than Lebron in 2012 considering Durant didnt do anything the previous season or the season before that... But whatever, you could say Moses was best in 1983, thats your opinion...