Dunking Data For 1988-1993: MJ is the Goat In-Game Dunker for Wing Players

[QUOTE=3ball]This is really awesome... Thanks a lot... will be looking at this stuff.[/QUOTE]
No problem. :cheers: I'll scan from the 92-93 guide when it arrives.

Pretty disappointed about the 95-96 and 96-97 books, but they were only a few bucks. Hopefully I can find the Pollack yearbooks for those seasons.

[QUOTE=fpliii]No problem. :cheers: I'll scan from the 92-93 guide when it arrives.

Pretty disappointed about the 95-96 and 96-97 books, but they were only a few bucks. Hopefully I can find the Pollack yearbooks for those seasons.[/QUOTE]

Do the 95-96 and 96-97 ones have the dunk totals? Can you post those if they do.

[QUOTE=Smoke117]Do the 95-96 and 96-97 ones have the dunk totals? Can you post those if they do.[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately they don't. The books are much smaller, and are just directory information, box score stats against certain opponents, biographies, etc. (sections for ads in the back too). They're pretty much useless.

I think the dunk totals are only in the Pollack's Yearbook. I'm going to try and get a hold of them.

[QUOTE=fpliii]1) It's not "literally impossible". Unless a sample is infinitely large, noise in the data is always a plausible explanation. Until we can extrapolate trends using analysis, we can not rule it out.

2) Why is trying to be absolutely certain a "waste of time" and how does it demonstrate a "lack of awareness"? Again, until we do exhaustive analysis, we cannot say anything definitively.

3) Intuition is fine, but again...we're not dealing in maybes, probablys, or anything else here. If we want to prove something, we have to be rigorous and exhaustive in our investigation and analysis.

We have this data, which is a great start for analysis. Now, we have to begin trying to explain why what happened, did indeed happen. There is absolutely no hurry whatsoever, it's more important to be definitely correct after doing more legwork than possibly correct without doing so. We have a ton of new information, so now we can use it carefully in our research.[/QUOTE]
So it is a viable notion to you that noise in the data explains the 30% decline in dunk frequency from 1998 to 2001... and despite this massive decline and other declines in dunk frequency (8% decline in 2010, 5th largest shift in the known period), athleticism could explain changes in dunk frequency, even though the shifts in dunking frequency are extremely sharp and often head in the wrong direction as if athleticism has gotten worse (not just shorter term periods like 1999-2001 and 2010... if we looked at the data from 1998 when dunking frequency was at it's highest, we'd obviously see that dunking frequency has gone down since then).

Good luck finding anything meaningful in the numbers... My guess is you'll figure find mostly noise in the data.

-

[QUOTE=Replay32]Surprised I haven't seen these two yet..

On Orlando Woolridge

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFlljgbC7Tc[/url]


There was a dunk in the 91 finals where he went chest to chest and dunked on Sam perkins. Someone post it if you have it.

Lebron is a 1 foot leaper. MJ could posterize you off one and two feet. Both are explosive, but MJ has dunked on far more players.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_over_Perkins_5e9173876f441a2f4792c5b13bc0812b.gif[/IMG]

As soon as Jordan hit the corner, it was over for Perk.......

[QUOTE=3ball]So it is a viable notion to you that noise in the data explains the 30% decline in dunk frequency from 1998 to 2001... and despite this massive decline and other declines in dunk frequency (8% decline in 2010, 5th largest shift in the known period), athleticism could explain changes in dunk frequency, even though the shifts in dunking frequency are extremely sharp and often head in the wrong direction as if athleticism has gotten worse (not just shorter term periods like 1999-2001 and 2010... if we looked at the data from 1998 when dunking frequency was at it's highest, we'd obviously see that dunking frequency has gone down since then).

Good luck finding anything meaningful in the numbers... My guess is you'll figure find mostly noise in the data.

-[/QUOTE]
Obviously the frequency has gone down. As I said, we already know the "what", it's just explaining the "why" at this point. I don't even necessarily disagree with you (and would probably agree for the most part), I just like to be 100% sure before stating something. Maybe it seems a bit pedantic, but I like to deal in certainties.

Anyhow though, as I said, when I have some new data I'll post it. Trying to get those Pollack's Yearbooks, and the 92-93 guide is in the mail.

[QUOTE=fpliii]Obviously the frequency has gone down. As I said, we already know the "what", it's just explaining the "why" at this point. I don't even necessarily disagree with you (and would probably agree for the most part), I just like to be 100% sure before stating something. Maybe it seems a bit pedantic, but I like to deal in certainties.
[/QUOTE]
Dunking frequency has gone down since 1998 by about 10%... But it's shifted around a lot...

It increased by 12% in 1992, and stayed at that higher level until the big decline between 1998 and 2001... Then of course as you'd expect, in 2005 there was an 8% increase in dunk frequency... and in 2010 it declined by that same amount.

The decline in frequency from 1998 to 2001 is not a small sample.. It's so unlikely to be noise in the data that it seems nonsensical to even suggest that over much more likely scenarios.

Regarding Jordan, the reason he had more dunks than any other wing player then or now regardless of the dunk frequency rate prevalent at the time, is because he's the only one that could do any of those dunks [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10488417&postcount=69][u]i posted earlier[/u][/url] - where most of them were him doing a post-spin move, and then tight-roping the baseline amongst defenders for a poster.
.

[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/a2dab619d6ddfb1d7d56e732d27e98e9.gif[/IMG]

Sliding amongst defenders and dunking in traffic again..

Who else has the footwork skill and physique to do [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10488417&postcount=69][u]these dunks[/u][/url], where MJ is spinning on the post and tight-roping the sideline for a poster over a big?

That's why he had more dunks than any wing player ever even during times when league-wide dunking frequency was at it's lower points.
.

From the looks of it, Jordan's dunk totals are as follows:

1988: 153
1989: 117
1990: 153
1991: 126
1992: 95
1993: 94

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[B][U]Dunking Over Little Guys
[/U][/B]
While Lebron is lauded for his dunk over shrimp Jason Terry, Jordan didn't get props for dunking over shrimps like the one below, because everyone was used to seeing him dunk over big men.

[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/2e6dcef4b1301d2dc37a1eee1de5a944.gif[/IMG]


[B][U]Jordan's Dunk Totals From 1996-1998 (2nd three-peat years)
[/U][/B]
We can figure out how many dunks Jordan had during his 2nd three-peat from 1996 to 1998, by taking the 1023 total dunks he had from 1988-2005 and subtracting the 746 he had between 1988 and 1993, which leaves 277.

Take the 277 and subtract 41 total dunks that he had during his two Wizards years along with another 15 dunks (an assumption) for his 17-game comeback at the end of the 1995 regular season... This leaves 221 dunks, [B]for an average of 70 dunks per year from 1996 to 1998[/B] - this is still a higher average than a prime Kobe, prime Tmac, prime Vince Carter, prime Paul Pierce, and prime Paul George.

[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/44dac513a57f077f61bdd07b297d9085.gif[/IMG]


[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/c5673bd3d4d211a749bee839f8c8d2c1.gif[/IMG]

The reason MJ dunked more than any other wing is because he had the footwork mastery, physique, and athleticism to dunk in tight spots with little or no run-up needed to gain momentum.

[QUOTE=3ball]From the looks of it, Jordan's dunk totals are as follows:

1988: 153
1989: 117
1990: 153
1991: 126
1992: 95
1993: 94[/QUOTE]
I'm surprised there weren't more in 92. MJ seemed to attack the basket more in 92 than he did in 93 (looked like he relied on his jumper more). Though again, I didn't watch 92 live so I can't comment.

How do you rank MJ's top 5 seasons?

[QUOTE=fpliii]I'm surprised there weren't more in 92. MJ seemed to attack the basket more in 92 than he did in 93 (looked like he relied on his jumper more). Though again, I didn't watch 92 live so I can't comment.

How do you rank MJ's top 5 seasons?[/QUOTE]

Good question, thx for asking... hmmm.. i'd go with 1990 as #1 because his ball-handling improved markedly between 88' and 89'.... So in 1990 when he had a peak year with dunks, i'm guessing that he got those dunks using more nuanced skill off the dribble than he used in 1987 and 1988, when his off-the-dribble game wasn't as advanced, so he was using more sheer power, quickness and hops.

I could be wrong, but based on that i'd go with 1990 as #1 because of the volume coupled with the nuance...

Then I'd go with 1991 because that was his most dominant year and when he was at his very best - pretty much everything he did in 1991 was the best he'd ever done it.. it all came together that year - the extra muscle mainly, to go with everything else that he'd developed.

After 1990 and 1991, i'd go with 1988, 1989, 1992 and then 1993.. He'd put so much effort into reaching the top of the mountain that in 92' and 93', he definitely exhaled and was able to start saving energy in spots.

[quote]I'm surprised there weren't more in 92[/quote]
He seemed to be more in cruise control that season, plus with Pippen & Grant's rapid improvement he didn't have to do as much. Mike Fratello noted how Tex Winter mentioned in conversation that they did not post up Jordan as often during the regular season.


[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8G6eBV4qCfI&t=11m45s"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8G6eBV4qCfI&t=11m45s[/URL]



[B][I]Daily Herald - January 24, 1992[/I][/B][I]

The midterm report.

How do you grade the individual members of the Bulls at the halfway point of a brilliant 35-5 season?

Throw out the curve. The team is too good.

So trying to be as tough as possible, here are the midterm report cards.

[B]Michael Jordan[/B] - He is still the best player in the NBA. But he has performed a new role this season, filling gaps whenever the club needed a spark, either offensively or defensively. He is still obsessed with winning the scoring title, which is unfortunate, but he is human. In terms of all-around play within a team concept, this has been his best half-season. Grade A+[/I]

[QUOTE=fpliii]

I'm surprised there weren't more in 92.

[/QUOTE]
Keep in mind that 95 dunks in a season is going to be top 15 overall every year.

Also, every year since the data began in 1988, there has been 3-4 wing players that get over 100 dunks every year, with occasionally someone else sneaking into the +100 club a one-off basis.

From 1988 to 1993, the wing players that were mainstays in the +100 dunk club were Jordan, Drexler, Wilkins, and Pippen... The one-offs from 1988 to 1993 were Ron Harper, Roy Hinson, Richard Dumas, Chris Morris, and Derrick McKey.

From 2001 to 2014, the wing players that were mainstays in the +100 dunk club were Durant, Lebron, Wade, and Igoudala... The one-offs that I found from 2001-2014 are Marion, Melo, Tmac, Kobe, Richard Jefferson, and Rudy Gay.

So 95 dunks is not a low amount - anything close to 100 should be considered quite high.. Also, there is a lot of variation from year to year - Lebron's dunks range from 91 to 144, and Jordan's went from 158 to 117 in just one year (1988 to 1989).

Wonder what percentage of MJ's dunks come from steals?

[QUOTE=3ball]Can anyone find any other wing players from between 2001 and 2014 that had over 100 dunks in a season?[/QUOTE]
100 dunks is super impressive. If you're feared on the drive, defenses have to respect your ability to penetrate and let you shoot. Thing is, MJ had a jumper as well, so that doesn't work. Kind of a pick your poison deal. Hakeem's thoughts on Jordan:

[QUOTE]Michael Jordan and I came into the NBA at the same time. It didn’t take long for me to realize that this was the greatest player I had ever seen. There may have been greater players before him in the history of the league but I never witnessed them; when I saw Michael Jordan I saw a player strong in all areas.

When I analyze an opponent-or a teammate, for that matter-I try to see their weaknesses. You can break down most players that way. No matter how strong a player is in one area, if he is weak in another you can neutralize him by forcing him to go there again and again. It doesn’t take long to find out. Usually, if one is a good shooter he doesn’t like to drive; if he’s a good driver he can’t shoot. You can use that knowledge. If a player is a weak foul shooter, foul him; if he can’t hit jump shots in the fourth quarter, dare him to beat you by playing loose late in the game; if he is soft to his right, don’t let him go left. If you take away all options except the one a player is weak at you have taken away his game.

But none of that worked with Michael Jordan. Whatever you gave him, he would take it. If you backed off, he would shoot. He would make his shot most of the time, and if he missed it was only because he was human. If you came too close he would go around you. If you gave him the right or the left he would go either way. If there was nothing there, he would create. He could rebound, he p;aged good defense, he was quick with steals. He was strong in all areas; if you let him do anything at all he would beat you. Players liked to play against him because it was a challenge to go up against the best. I gave him the ultimate respect because he was a complete player.

Michael Jordan is a natural athlete. His form is perfect, he has strong basketball basics and fundamentals, and his game is all footwork. At 6’6” he is an in-between player. Most 6’6” players are small forwards; he is a natural guard. That’s why he creates problems-Michael Jordan is a big guard. He does everything guards can do, and much more, with size. He’s as quick as other guards but bigger, so he takes advantage by shooting over them. When he plays bigger guys he’s quicker than they are and has great ball-handling skills, so he beats his man easily, makes the shot and gets fouled. He also has very big hands-big man’s hands. When he shakes your hand you don’t think he’s a guard. He could palm the ball like Dr. J, which made his ball control even greater.

Playing against Michael Jordan is an all-day challenge. The fist thing he does is get you off balance. His fakes are so sharp and real you have to go for them. That’s the difference between Michael Jordan and everybody else: You don’t know what is real and what’s a fake. He can seem to be driving and then pop up for the jumper, or he can seem to be about to shoot and then go right around you for the score. When he fakes, you have to go for it, you can’t lay off him because he can follow through on everything he threatens to do and he can make just about any shot. And he’s so smart that just when you think you’ve got him figured out and he’s faking all the time, all of a sudden he will keep you honest and just explode on you in one motion like you’re not even there.

You have to honor his fakes and respect everything. Other players, you don’t take them seriously. A driver faking a shot, who’s going to go for that? A jump shooter who’s faking to drive, you know this is a fake so you stay with him. And if he does drive you can catch up with him because this is not his game. But Michael Jordan does it all. First, he’s a driver. That’s his first option: to drive. He will flash by you in a moment, so to prevent an easy lay-up you have to try to cut him off when he moves. However if you are quick enough to get in his lane he will pull up and shoot, he has that option. You will be low and off balance, you’ll have used up all your mobility just to get to your spot, and you’ll have to watch him stop and put the ball up because you can’t move. You have to be balanced to jump and he has gotten you off balance. And he will get a lot of points off you because his shot doesn’t miss often.

Michael Jordan is a very creative player; you cannot predict what he is going to do. Even when you think you’ve got his shot blocked at the last minute he will change it. You can never think, Well, I’ve cornered him, I’ve trapped him, there’s nothing there this time. I have forced him into many difficult situations over the years and he has come out of them. Once he’s under the basket, there’s no way for a 6’6” guard to shoot over a man five inches taller than he is. We wait for these kinds of opportunities! But Michael Jordan would come inside and hang in the air. I knew I had him blocked-I could feel the basketball-but he would just hang there. Where most other players would try to force it over me, Jordan would realize there was nowhere to go and *on his way down* take the ball back and pass off-maybe to his man behind the three-point line. I’m coming down, he’s coming down, and he still makes something happen. I thought I had a block, now they’ve got three points.

If a player like Michael Jordan catches me one-on-one outside, I will back off. I’ll give him the jumper rather than have him go by me for an easy inside slam. When I see that he has truly taken off for his jump shot, *then* I will contest it. Even though I don’t have a chance to block it I will run at him just to distract him.

But on top of being physically gifted, Michael Jordan is smart. He won’t settle for an open jumper. Most players will, they like taking open shots. But Michael Jordan is a very intelligent player and he wants better than I’m giving him, so he dribbles toward me. It’s unusual for a guard to dribble *toward* a big man if he wants to shoot a jumper. But this is Michael Jordan. If I’m going to let him shoot I back off some more, and some more, until he’s even closer to the basket and has an even easier shot. I can’t keep giving ground, and with every step backward I’m more off balance. Sooner or later I’ll have to come to him, at which point he can either shoot before I get there or drive around me. It’s a very subtle, very impressive set of decisions he makes.

I understood his game very well because if I were an outside player these are the decisions I would make ,the moves I would use. I’m an in-between player too. When I play against a guy who is almost my size I just post him up; when I play big guys I go outside, make a move, use my fakes, and come at them. I know I can’t do it in the paint but on the outside I have room. I stay on the attack, I don’t let the defender make my decisions for me, I make my own decisions.

One time when Jordan was posting up I even saw him do the Dream Shake. That’s my move, where you fake left in deep toward the basket, shake your man, take a step back, and turn around quickly for a fade-away jumper. I was watching on TV and Jordan got the ball and made the move and it looked so natural that I really couldn’t claim it, he took what the defensive man gave him and used it perfectly. How could I say that was mine? That came naturally out of Michael Jordan.

When he came into the league Michael Jordan was criticized for being selfish. People used to complain all the time that he was shooting too much, twenty-eight times a game, and not getting his teammates involved. I never bought into that premise. Michael Jordan is a team player, he plays to win. When he takes his shot it’s because he thinks he can score. And he can! He was just taking the first responsibility of the offense-creating opportunities. When he gets the ball he can pass of score or finish the play. Early in his career he was doing the work of two or three people, first in bringing the ball downcourt, then either shooting or passing; he was controlling the tempo of the game. And he still does. Inside, outside, he plays guard, he plays forward, he plays center-and he always does damage. I’ve seen big men not even try to stop him, they get out of his way; he explodes on them and they don’t want to get dunked on.[/QUOTE]

(10,000 char, continued...)

[QUOTE]When I look at basketball sometimes I think of animals. Michael Jordan is like a big cat hopping on a rock; as soon as he lands he goes straight up. People think he

.
[QUOTE=fpliii]"Most superstars, if they match up against each other at the same position, neutralize each other.

He’s different. Michael Jordan dominates superstars."
[/QUOTE]
Hakeem didn't like jumping with Jordan - he'd always flinch when Jordan went up..

[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/31bc391d9b340e1ce3eb68d99c5375ee.gif[/IMG]

[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/8c81c913b9d72d400f82c1417c652fa1.gif[/IMG]


Here's a couple more Hakeem flinchers - the two below can be seen in the compilations included in the OP - he blatantly gets out of the way on both.

[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Michael_Jordan_Blows_By_Robert_a06301d352c7c9a7a2653e80f329d83b.gif[/IMG]

[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Michael_Jordan_dunks_on_Hakeem_0de38e83b646418914914ad5b64bef8c.gif[/IMG]

Beautiful. Where is that Hakeem interview from?

[QUOTE=nnn123]Beautiful. Where is that Hakeem interview from?[/QUOTE]
Not an interview, just a quote from his autobiography ("Living the Dream", written in 95). I typed up a bunch from there recently, and this one applied so I thought I'd share it.

[IMG]http://33.media.tumblr.com/326ddeafbc976b53904042c36b4e1bf5/tumblr_n6k2osGspK1s3gys4o1_250.gif[/IMG]

Amazing words and respect for Jordan from Hakeem up there. Nice - thanks for posting.

[quote=Hakeem Olajuwon]If he were an animal in the jungle Michael Jordan could lie out on the biggest rock and no one would disturb him, no one would attack him. He wouldn’t have to watch his back. All the other animals would wait fearfully; they’d be scared even while he slept. He would stalk his prey and take down anything he wanted. Afterward he would prowl around, full, quiet, peaceful, his tail swinging. IN the NBA, Michael Jordan walks around the jungle freely.[/quote]

Just amazing.

[QUOTE=fpliii]I'm surprised there weren't more in 92. MJ seemed to attack the basket more in 92 than he did in 93 ([B]looked like he relied on his jumper more[/B]). Though again, I didn't watch 92 live so I can't comment.

How do you rank MJ's top 5 seasons?[/QUOTE]

i think thats partly true. in 92-93, he was still in his athletic prime and was still an attacker first. but as his game completely rounded out, he prob felt that he didnt need to dunk on everyone anymore. we still got alot of(prob more) nifty layins around the basket.

[QUOTE=f0und]i think thats partly true. in 92-93, he was still in his athletic prime and was still an attacker first. but as his game completely rounded out, he prob felt that he didnt need to dunk on everyone anymore. we still got alot of(prob more) nifty layins around the basket.[/QUOTE]

Also take Into account this was a season coming off 2 titles and an Olympics appearance, that's nearly 4 seasons in the span of 3
Jordan and the Bulls were probably fatigued

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[B][U]Wing Players With at Least 1 Season of 100+ Dunks[/U][/B]


[U]1988 - 1994[/U][COLOR="White"]................[/COLOR][U]2001 - 2014[/U]

Michael Jordan............ Kevin Durant
Dominique Wilkins........ Lebron James
Clyde Drexler.............. Dwayne Wade
Scottie Pippen............ Andre Iguodala
Ron Harper................. Kobe Bryant
Richard Dumas............ Tracy McGrady
Derrick McKey ............ Carmelo Anthony
Stacey Augmon........... Rudy Gay
Roy Hinson................. Shawn Marion
Chris Morris................ Richard Jefferson


This is how the dunkers match up - not bad for the previous era, especially since it is a much shorter time period... Penny got 89 dunks his rookie year in 1994 when his stats were lower across the board compared to subsequent years, and Grant Hill was likely a 100+ per year dunker as well if we had pre-injury data for him.

The 92-93 guide arrived, so here are the dunks for 91-92:

[url]http://i57.tinypic.com/iwox8i.jpg[/url]

I know PHILA wanted the Sixers/opponents plus minus numbers. I got them from the 92-93 guide, and it turns out the 95-96 and 96-97 guides have those limited numbers as well:

[url]http://www35.zippyshare.com/v/92248068/file.html[/url]

[QUOTE=fpliii]The 92-93 guide arrived, so here are the dunks for 91-92:

[url]http://i57.tinypic.com/iwox8i.jpg[/url]

[/QUOTE]

"Plastic Man" with 101 dunks...?:wtf:

[QUOTE=jlip]

"Plastic Man" with 101 dunks...?:wtf:

[/QUOTE]

[B][U]SG's and SF's With 1 Season or More of 100+ Dunks[/U][/B]


[B][U]1988 - 1994[/U][COLOR="White"]......................[/COLOR][U]2001 - 2014[/U][/B]

Michael Jordan................... Kevin Durant
Dominique Wilkins............... Lebron James
Clyde Drexler..................... Dwayne Wade
Scottie Pippen................... Andre Iguodala
Ron Harper........................ Kobe Bryant
Richard Dumas................... Tracy McGrady
Derrick McKey ................... Carmelo Anthony
[B][I]Plastic Man[/I][/B]...................... Rudy Gay
Roy Hinson........................ Shawn Marion
Chris Morris....................... Richard Jefferson

And Plastic Man got over 100 dunks twice during this period.

[QUOTE=jlip]"Plastic Man" with 101 dunks...?:wtf:[/QUOTE]I was more surprised that Blue Edwards was playing enough to snag 91. I liked his dunk style. Didn't realize he was nearly a 30 minute guy that early on.

Sidenote, Stacey had an underrated 360 attempt in the '92 contest. I mean, I guess it's properly rated because he missed twice, but it would have be sweet if he'd put it down: [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CYSU5JVKmU#t=0m24s[/url]

There was no zone in MJ's era

As soon as you beat your man it was a guaranteed dunk

[QUOTE=dubeta]There was no zone in MJ's era

As soon as you beat your man it was a guaranteed dunk[/QUOTE]


Son, sit your ass down. Grown folks are talking.

[QUOTE=dubeta]There was no zone in MJ's era

As soon as you beat your man it was a guaranteed dunk[/QUOTE]

[B]1.) 3-Pt-Floor-Spreaders + Defensive 3 Seconds = Wide Open Paint & Late Rim Protection
[/B]

[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Todays_No_Defense_Lack_of_Rim_eb5a1b1afe17e31ce272eb4e3ae0f8e9.gif[/IMG]




[B]2.) MJ Wouldn't Need to Be as Great or Do These Shots in Today's Game/Open Paint.. :facepalm
[/B]

[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_Goat_Ability_ac1e53e3c47372cda8a8f82149579b4e.gif[/IMG]

3ball - It's probably a lot of work so don't feel obligated if you don't want to do it, but what are your top 10 MJ dunks going baseline, and going middle?

[quote=fpliii]The 92-93 guide arrived, so here are the dunks for 91-92:

[URL="http://i57.tinypic.com/iwox8i.jpg"]http://i57.tinypic.com/iwox8i.jpg[/URL]

I know PHILA wanted the Sixers/opponents plus minus numbers. I got them from the 92-93 guide, and it turns out the 95-96 and 96-97 guides have those limited numbers as well:

[URL="http://www35.zippyshare.com/v/92248068/file.html"]http://www35.zippyshare.com/v/92248068/file.html[/URL][/quote]

Thanks, this along with 3ball's plus/minus data from 1991, 1993, etc. will provide a better statistical picture of Barkley in his prime years.

[QUOTE=PHILA]Thanks, this along with 3ball's plus/minus data from 1991, 1993, etc. will provide a better statistical picture of Barkley in his prime years.[/QUOTE]
Definitely. Would be interested in seeing the Sixers plus/minus for those other seasons.

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[QUOTE=dubeta]There was no zone in MJ's era

As soon as you beat your man it was a guaranteed dunk[/QUOTE]

I'm 90% sure you're a troll, but just in case:

[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CE2hU-OaIo"]Jordan dunk vs 2-2-1 trapping Zone (1992)[/URL]

[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6_GgXXR4vA"]Jordan dunk vs 3-2 Zone (1992)[/URL]

[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=330HeLlv52U"]Jordan dunk vs full court press/trapping zone (1991)[/URL]

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]I'm 90% sure you're a troll, but just in case:

[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CE2hU-OaIo"]Jordan dunk vs 2-2-1 trapping Zone (1992)[/URL]

[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6_GgXXR4vA"]Jordan dunk vs 3-2 Zone (1992)[/URL]

[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=330HeLlv52U"]Jordan dunk vs full court press/trapping zone (1991)[/URL][/QUOTE]
That 2nd dunk where he beats the 2-2-1... he's off-ball, then he's on-ball, then he goes back off-ball to beat it... look how much more physical the defense is and how much more congested the paint is... it's like night and day.

It's like MJ just keeps working and working relentlessly until he finds a way to score.

On that 3rd dunk - As the bulls are getting up court through the full-court press, each guy that catches the ball is immediately met with a double team - it happens 4 times as the Knicks are scrambling like crazy... it's amazing... and it's amazing the level of defense you can play when you can be truly physical and don't have to extend out far defensively to guard a bevy of 3-point shooters.

[B]Statical Wise MJ and Barkley Are The Only Once Who Appear Top 10 In Most Every Other Cateogry: Simple EFF, PER, Statistical Plus/Minus etc

The 2 Best Players of The Late 80s and Early 90s[/B] :bowdown: :bowdown: