Where would you put LeBron James on the all time list? Honest answers, please.

[QUOTE=3ball]Yeah but that's the thing - MJ's been great at everything too - he was an all-around player, but also the goat at various things like scoring and steals

Unfortunately, those goat things overshadowed his great play in other areas.. let me know when gets lebron gets 11 apg in the Finals, let alone as a non-PG..

And when has lebron ever been called the best player at [U]another[/U] position, like the media called MJ within a few games of him at PG in 89'???.. I'll wait..[/QUOTE]
Mj was great ag multiple things as well. I personally think Lebron was capable of more things on the floor simply due to being bigger while still able to do things most small guys could as well. Can't develop size.

Also about that last sentence i guess you missed Miami running Lebron at the 4 and that being the most dangerous he ever was as a player.:no:

[QUOTE=FKAri]Because at the end of the day only losers respect bran. us big dick alfas respect kobe[/QUOTE]

dumb people always get triggered by my posts.

too many dumbass bron stans triggered by this thread. Not all people have same low standards as you guys.

[QUOTE=knicksman]too many dumbass bron stans triggered by this thread. Not all people have same low standards as you guys.[/QUOTE]
True, some of us could root for the Knicks

Rightnow for me he's probably around 6-8, by the time he finsihes even with no rings he'll be Top 5 becuase of the various records he'll break. He'll probably be Top 3 in scoring all time.

He doesn't even sniff GOAT to me unless somehow he gets 2 more rings as the man.

[QUOTE=Meticode]Rightnow for me he's probably around 6-8, by the time he finsihes even with no rings he'll be Top 5 becuase of the various records he'll break. He'll probably be Top 3 in scoring all time.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Meticode]He doesn't even sniff GOAT to me unless somehow he gets 2 more rings as the man.[/QUOTE]


Thats as accurate as someone can get surprisingly.

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents]True, some of us could root for the Knicks[/QUOTE]

teams are different from players. But youre a dumbass so not surprised you dont know:lol

[QUOTE=knicksman]teams are different from players. But youre a dumbass so not surprised you dont know:lol[/QUOTE]
triggered coz the truth hurts

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents]triggered coz the truth hurts[/QUOTE]

ayiee the guy who craves respect is wanting to trigger me. LOL

[QUOTE=knicksman]ayiee the guy who craves respect is wanting to trigger me. LOL[/QUOTE]
I don

Top 3

Only MJ and Bird are better

[QUOTE=Andrei89]Top 3

Only MJ and Bird are better[/QUOTE]
:roll:

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents]triggered coz the truth hurts[/QUOTE]
Knicks still is better in playoff matchups:lol Ewing, starks, sprewell and Houston are your daddies:oldlol:

[QUOTE=Da_Realist]Isiah led his team to two titles in perhaps the league's toughest conference ever and having to beat all time great teams led by all time greats Bird and Magic while holding off a soon-to-be all time great Bulls dynasty led by GOAT MJ.

Not the same as beating John Wall and Kyle Lowry every year. Give Isiah the same license LeBron has... let him join up with his superfriends after Detroit goes down. Let him join Cleveland and allow him to recruit Barkley, they'd be a problem. This is what LeBron has been getting away with.[/QUOTE]
So you are on all the drugs in the World. You're making knicksman look like he has 4 functioning brain cells.

Isiah isn't even a top 20 GOAT. LeBron is a top 3 GOAT. Replace LeBron with Isiah on every single team LeBron has been on and Isiah doesn't even SNIFF a ring, let alone win won. FOH with your tier 1 autism. :oldlol:

[QUOTE=LostCause]I don't think that was the case. They moved to the perimeter by necessity to allow more spacing for LeBron to operate. Pre-injury we saw it with Kevin Love who was getting way more touches in the paint than he did at any point in Cleveland, closer to what he was doing in Minnesota

Bosh we know did play more in the paint pre-LeBron so I dont know if it makes much sense to say he just suddenly became a *****. It's more likely that he was asked to stretch the floor instead of crowd the lane and that adjustment stuck with him, unlike Love who went back to getting more paint touches[/QUOTE]
~50% of Bosh's shots came outside 10ft pre-LeBron. WITH LeBron, ~54% of his shots were outside 10ft. A change of 4%. That's pretty much half a shot a game.

Also, this is straight from Bosh's mouth:

"I don't bang anybody anymore," Bosh said. "It's a tired thing for me. It's not my strength and I understand that."

"Just playing at an elite level, you play better defenders," Bosh said. "It gets tiring. What they ask us to do, to blitz the screen and roll, every single one, close out and get back. I wasn't this same weight. I was already 20-30 pounds lighter than anybody else. All that stuff just takes my energy."

Also, it was the game evolving. Bosh didn't just stop playing in the post overnight.

[QUOTE=Real14]Knicks still is better in playoff matchups:lol Ewing, starks, sprewell and Houston are your daddies:oldlol:[/QUOTE]
Heat also have more titles despite the Knicks FORTY year head start :oldlol:

[QUOTE=aj1987]So you are on all the drugs in the World. You're making knicksman look like he has 4 functioning brain cells.

Isiah isn't even a top 20 GOAT. LeBron is a top 3 GOAT. Replace LeBron with Isiah on every single team LeBron has been on and Isiah doesn't even SNIFF a ring, let alone win won. FOH with your tier 1 autism. :oldlol: [/QUOTE]

That's irrelevant. And simple. I don't think LeBron would win with the teams Isiah led. Maybe if he was playing John Wall and Beal Bradley but not in the conference Isiah played in. He wouldn't know how to best utilize the talent on that team and would probably have everyone traded away.

Secondly he is nowhere near the leader Isiah was. Isiah was tough and it rubbed off on his teammates. LeBron would have his teammates flopping and begging for calls.

And no, LeBron is not top 3. Top 10-ish. In my book, 10th at best.

this forum can be a joke with some of these opinions. They're like a lvl beyond trolling. Outside top 15 is a joke no matter what.

I'm sure Lebron is winning even more than 2 titles with the loads of good players the Bad Boys had vs the aging Celtics and MJ with no help.

Not surprised that the most votes have him top 10 ish. :applause:

[QUOTE=Real14]:roll:[/QUOTE]

Poor lad, I remember in 2010 you were begging for Lebron:(

[QUOTE=NBAGOAT]this forum can be a joke with some of these opinions. They're like a lvl beyond trolling. Outside top 15 is a joke no matter what.

I'm sure Lebron is winning even more than 2 titles with the loads of good players the Bad Boys had vs the aging Celtics and MJ with no help.[/QUOTE]

No he wouldn't. He'd want to do everything and in the process he'd marginalize Dumars and VJ (who both ran the offense). LeBron ball wouldn't beat the 80's Lakers or Celtics or the 1990 Bulls. Learning to share ball responsibilities is also a great skill.

I think it's pretty indefensible to have him outside a Top 5.

Outside Top 15 is just terrible, outside Top 10, makes no sense either

Outside Jordan and Kareem, the rest of the Top 5 is interchangeable imo, and I think LeBron fits well in that range

[QUOTE=Da_Realist]No he wouldn't. He'd want to do everything and in the process he'd marginalize Dumars and VJ (who both ran the offense). LeBron ball wouldn't beat the 80's Lakers or Celtics or the 1990 Bulls. Learning to share ball responsibilities is also a great skill.[/QUOTE]

Defecting to a better player is also a skill. Dumars and VJ along with the others were certainly experienced enough to do that. There's also nothing wrong with those two running the offense less because it's just a fact lebron is better at running an offense than them as ugly as you think it looks. Miami Bron did decent enough sharing with Wade too.

The defense depending on what version of Bron could easily be nastier and better. The Pistons beat 1 version of the Lakers(89), Celtics(88), and Bulls (90)each, none at their prime lvls. I could easily see them winning in say 88 when isiah was one game from winning already. I know you know all this.

[QUOTE=NBAGOAT]Defecting to a better player is also a skill. Dumars and VJ along with the others were certainly experienced enough to do that. There's also nothing wrong with those two running the offense less because it's just a fact lebron is better at running an offense than them as ugly as you think it looks. Miami Bron did decent enough sharing with Wade too.

The defense depending on what version of Bron could easily be nastier and better. The Pistons beat 1 version of the Lakers(89), Celtics(88), and Bulls (90)each, none at their prime lvls. I could easily see them winning in say 88 when isiah was one game from winning already. I know you know all this.[/QUOTE]

I can't see them beating the 88 Lakers or the 90 Bulls. The 89 Lakers either if they aren't injured. Not with the way they'd need to change their play to fit LeBron's game. Simpler offense with a bigger focus on LeBron needing to be superman. The 90 version of Pippen (with MJ and Grant) would slow LeBron way down.

Conversely, Detroit's offense was multi-faceted. Even when Isiah struggled, other guys felt comfortable taking over. It's not about talent, it's about style. They were given opportunities to lead the offense and make basketball decisions years before they became championship caliber. When they reached the big stage, all of them were ready and dependable.

[QUOTE=Da_Realist]I can't see them beating the 88 Lakers or the 90 Bulls. The 89 Lakers either if they aren't injured. Not with the way they'd need to change their play to fit LeBron's game. Simpler offense with a bigger focus on LeBron needing to be superman. The 90 version of Pippen (with MJ and Grant) would slow LeBron way down.

Conversely, Detroit's offense was multi-faceted. Even when Isiah struggled, other guys felt comfortable taking over. It's not about talent, it's about style. They were given opportunities to lead the offense and make basketball decisions years before they became championship caliber. When they reached the big stage, all of them were ready and dependable.[/QUOTE]

We

[QUOTE=NBAGOAT]We’re not assuming lebron gets drafted like isiah, we’re just inserting him as a replacement on those late 80s teams. Being multi faceted or balanced does not always mean most effective. Bron has lead worse rosters extremely effectively, thts indisputable. Guys like wade and Kyrie were certainly comfortable taking over, why couldn’t the Detroit guys. Lebron has faced all the best wing defenders of this era and produced fairly well. What kind of production/level of play is “way down”?

This is all moot anyway since it’s a pure hypothetical to argue about something unarguable. Bron is a better player than isiah and it’s not really close[/QUOTE]
There's no one left on this board who will have a reasonable take on anything. ISH is home to people with some of the weirdest basketball beliefs I've ever heard of. You're wasting your breathe(fingers?).

[QUOTE=FKAri]There's no one left on this board who will have a reasonable take on anything. ISH is home to people with some of the weirdest basketball beliefs I've ever heard of. You're wasting your breathe(fingers?).[/QUOTE]

Tbf I was looking to waste time lol. Agreed the trolls you see on Facebook,Twitter, YouTube all the time but there are some puzzling serious takes here.

Btw this giving credit to a player for his team playing well without him is the most ridiculous thing I’m seeing more of, it goes against the basis of player evaluation and even the eye test which is how much do you help your team.

It can be manipulated in so many ways. Like yes the 7sol suns were mediocre without Nash which does show the system was extremely reliant on Nash. That should be a positive testament how good Nash was, not a negative. It’s The coaches and teammates job to do well without you. Is draymond suddenly a bad defender/leader since gs drops off heavily defensively without him? :lol no, this concept is a joke the exact opposite is true.

[QUOTE=NBAGOAT]Btw this giving credit to a player for his team playing well without him is the most ridiculous thing I’m seeing more of, it goes against the basis of player evaluation and even the eye test which is how much do you help your team.

It can be manipulated in so many ways. Like yes the 7sol suns were mediocre without Nash which does show the system was extremely reliant on Nash. That should be a positive testament how good Nash was, not a negative. It’s The coaches and teammates job to do well without you. Is draymond suddenly a bad defender/leader since gs drops off heavily defensively without him? :lol no, this concept is a joke the exact opposite is true.[/QUOTE]

Of course it seems ridiculous because that's how you worded it. My point is Isiah and others foster more of a team atmosphere that better incorporates teammates and allows them to grow in their roles and responsibilities. There's a system in place that even the best player submits to. Even the best player listens to the coach and is even instructed because the system and team is bigger than he is. This is why teams can do well enough without the star player for stretches. That's leadership.

Doing everything yourself, waving off coaches, refusing to play within a system that is bigger than you makes you the center of everything and everyone else becomes dependent on you. You get the stats. You get all the glory. Your sorry teammates get all the blame. Of course with no system and no respect for the coach, the team craters when you leave. That doesn't necessarily define how great you are. At least that's not the only measuring stick.

[QUOTE=Andrei89]Poor lad, I remember in 2010 you were begging for Lebron:([/QUOTE]

:eek: :eek: :eek:

[QUOTE=Da_Realist]That's irrelevant. And simple. I don't think LeBron would win with the teams Isiah led. Maybe if he was playing John Wall and Beal Bradley but not in the conference Isiah played in. He wouldn't know how to best utilize the talent on that team and would probably have everyone traded away.[/quote]
LeBron won titles with [B]significantly[/B] worse teams than those Isiah played on. Replace LeBron and Isiah and LeBron wins more than 3 rings with those teams. Rodman, Dumars, Laimbeer, Aguirre, and a ton of others.

On the other hand, I don't think Jordan would win a single title with LeBron's teams. He wouldn't know how to best utilize the talent on that teams and would probably have retired mid season.

[QUOTE=Da_Realist]Secondly he is nowhere near the leader Isiah was. Isiah was tough and it rubbed off on his teammates. LeBron would have his teammates flopping and begging for calls.[/quote]
So, you're not on drugs. You're just a retard.

Kyrie literally just called LeBron to apologize to him. As I said, LeBron would've demanded more from him teammates and would've made them perform better. They would've won a lot more with LeBron in Isiah's place. Have you been a LeBron locker room? Have you seen anyone call him a bad teammate?

I really can't believe that people think LeBron and Isiah are in the same tier. SMH!

[QUOTE=Da_Realist]And no, LeBron is not top 3. Top 10-ish. In my book, 10th at best.[/QUOTE]
This isn't 2012, so LeBron is a top 3 GOAT and top 5 at WORST. You can throw out blanket statements all you want and cry all you want, but facts are facts:

There's 2 people in the history of the sport with 4 or more MVP's and 3 or more MVP's.

Most All-NBA First teams (will likely end up with most All-NBA selections overall as well).

First and only player ever to hit 30k/8k/8k.

Top 5 all time in scoring (will likely end up top 2).

Most points ever in the PO's, top 3 in assists, and top 5 in rebounds.

Incredible career averages at all 3 stages (RS, PO's, and Finals).

Greatest G7 performer of all time.

Greatest elimination game performer of all time.

Not top 15.

Quitting.
Colluding.
Super teaming.
Easting.
Choking.
Etcing.

Da Realist is PETRIFIED of LeBron. Wow.


Comparing him to Isiah Thomas :roll:




Must...protect....muh MJ!

This DUMBASS is comparing a top 3 player of all time to Isaiah Thomas :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :lol

Good Lord what a dumbass:roll:

Top ten. He is one of the all time greatest players. Not at the summit though.

He's a juicer and I will [B]NOT[/B] rank a juicer:


[QUOTE][B]Did Bill Simmons Hint That LeBron James Took A Steroid Vacation?[/B]

Simmons met fan backlash when he floated the idea that LeBron wasn’t the “same player” early in the 2015 season. He responded as such:

“Like it was our fault that LeBron was playing below the rim for the first two months and the Cavs were a complete mess. I’m sorry for pointing that out everybody!”

After NBA beat writer Zach Lowe struggled to politely categorize LeBron’s two-week refresher vacation to Miami in January, Simmons pushed his stance once again:

Bill Simmons: Uh…I have a couple titles for that but I’m not gonna say.

Zach Lowe: I’m not going anywhere near where you’re going.

Bill Simmons: I’m not going anywhere either!

He later elaborated, saying:

[B]“LeBron James…looked like he was entering another phase of his career. He’s got a lot of miles on him. Looked different in how he was playing. Went away for two weeks, came back. He’s been lights out. [He] basically has been at 29 [points] a game, 6 [assists] and 6 [rebounds]. Fifty percent shooting. He looks like LeBron again.”[/B][/QUOTE]

[url]https://uproxx.com/dimemag/did-bill-s...roid-vacation/[/url]
[url]http://bluegrasspreps.com/national-b...ns-298941.html[/url]
[url]https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comment...bill_alluding/[/url]
[url]https://247sports.com/nba/mavericks/...tion-71485040/[/url]


[QUOTE][B]LeBatard: My Guess is LeBron James is ‘Doing Something[/B]’[/QUOTE]

[url]http://slicemiami.com/2016/06/08/le-...ron-james-hgh/[/url]


[QUOTE][B]LeBron James was in Miami while the Cavaliers played at home Sunday, with team's permission[/B][/QUOTE]

[url]https://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2015/01/lebron_james_miami.html[/url]


[QUOTE][B]Here's the story behind the 2-week break that turned LeBron James' season around[/B]

Windhorst says that late in 2014, James had been moody and his body wasn't 100%. After suddenly deciding not to play in a game against the Hawks, the Cavs gave him take two weeks off to rest, from which he returned healthy and in a better mood, seemingly revitalized by some midseason trades.

[B]"[James] had sort of just like waved a bit of a white flag there. He just didn't feel like playing. He had never done that ever before. He had always just played through it. And so it was after that game, [the Cavaliers] said, 'Alright, take your two weeks off,' because he had reached a very low point."

Nobody is quite sure why James' two-week break turned around his season. He does seem healthier and more explosive.[/B] If it was just fatigue and simple aches that he was dealing with, then two weeks may have been enough to revitalize him.[/QUOTE]


[QUOTE][B]LeBron James Briefly Went To Miami Before Start Of Finals[/B][/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-heat/fl-sp-lebron-james-udonis-haslem-s20180614-story.html[/url]


[QUOTE][B]The Only Thing Stephen A Smith and Max Kellerman Can Agree On[/B][/QUOTE]

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1Ie5nmM1Xw&t=2m05s[/url]

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gild8BBvrkA&t=11m45s[/url]


[IMG]https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/lebron-james-of-the-cleveland-cavaliers-looks-to-pass-against-the-san-picture-id85153038[/IMG]

[IMG]https://i.pinimg.com/736x/b6/22/c2/b622c23710df06e9d8fdffa44f475994--cleveland-cavs-king-james.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.428850.1314536733!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_750/alg-lebron-dunk-jpg.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/UkLrKr3KVvmKb9pLowD34pgjRlg=/0x0:1000x667/1200x800/filters:focal(0x0:1000x667)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/photo_images/2971465/GYI0065063672.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://mk0slamonlinensgt39k.kinstacdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/GettyImages-909447398.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://i1.wp.com/nbastatslab.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/maxresdefault-1.jpg[/IMG]

Top 10 ish for me. Somewhere between 7 and 10.

If LeBron passes Kareem in points I will give him the #2 all-time spot behind Jordan. Best career by far in the NBA at that point.

Looks like he's around top 8 average based on all the votes here. Still think that's a bit high :lebronamazed: