MJ's 1988 DPOY is now being "Questioned". HOME vs ROAD Steals has twice as much Gap

[QUOTE=3ba11;14924059]someone posted Bob Ryan crapping on Jordan, so case in point

the celtics didn't like Jordan and they did crap on him in the media[/QUOTE]

someone trying to tout bob ****ing ryan as some sort of basketball authority….

:roll:

pure insanity.

[QUOTE=warriorfan;14924095]someone trying to tout bob ****ing ryan as some sort of basketball authority….

:roll:

pure insanity.[/QUOTE]

And his other sources are a CEO of a Boys & Girls Club and a VP of a youth Euro league :roll:

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;14924081]So by this philosophy we can say nothing you've ever said about LeBron matters and you've hated on him since 2013 over probably a solid million posts because you feel threatened by him? Do you work for Jordan Brand?[/QUOTE]


If Haberstroh sees a deflection that might've been Jordan's, he doesn't know if Jordan is credited with the steal or not.. The announcer usually doesn't announce that.. That's why Haberstroh needed to count all the live ball turnovers in the game himself, and then claim that Jordan's reported steals were more than the total live-ball turnovers - that's the only way to know that some of Jordan's steals were fraudulent.. Accordingly, all Haberstroh has to do is under-count the total live-ball turnovers as he's watching the game - just skip one or two here and there - and then Jordan's total steals will be more than the live-ball turnovers, so Haberstroh can claim Jordan's steals are overstated... And no one can verify Haberstroh's count of the live-ball turnovers because he got the VHS from a guy in Latvia and none of the games are on youtube.. literally

There... that's the whole fraud and everything was true in my previous post that explained how the "normal" home inflation of prior eras was due to tougher road conditions, while the one-off, massive inflation of 88' MJ, 90' Hakeem and 86' Robertson is explained by any number of factors such as personal issues that affected home and road performance in that particular year.

[QUOTE=warriorfan;14924095]someone trying to tout bob ****ing ryan as some sort of basketball authority….

:roll:

pure insanity.[/QUOTE]

This post exposes your low IQ. Ryan was “The Guy” when it comes to NBA sportswriters back in the 70’s and 80’s.

Thread Cliffs:


Jordan was awarded extra steals and blocks to boost his DPOY case for 1988 by the Bulls stat keeper.


These facts will be a stain on Jordan's career forever.


Fraudulent.

[QUOTE=3ba11;14924101]If Haberstroh sees a deflection that might've been Jordan's, he doesn't know if Jordan is credited with the steal or not.. The announcer usually doesn't announce that.. That's why Haberstroh needed to count all the live ball turnovers in the game himself, and then claim that Jordan's reported steals were more than the total live-ball turnovers - that's the only way to know that some of Jordan's steals were fraudulent.. Accordingly, all Haberstroh has to do is under-count the total live-ball turnovers as he's watching the game - just skip one or two here and there - and then Jordan's total steals will be more than the live-ball turnovers, so Haberstroh can claim Jordan's steals are overstated... And no one can verify Haberstroh's count of the live-ball turnovers because he got the VHS from a guy in Latvia and none of the games are on youtube.. literally

There... that's the whole fraud and everything was true in my previous post that explained how the "normal" home inflation of prior eras was due to tougher road conditions, while the one-off, massive inflation of 88' MJ, 90' Hakeem and 86' Robertson is explained by any number of factors such as personal issues that affected home and road performance in that particular year.[/QUOTE]

This is just a wall of bullshit unless you can explain 3 dead ball turnovers bring credited as steals.....

[QUOTE]A 24-second violation by the Hawks’ offense. Later, Atlanta reserve Chris Washburn dribbled off his foot out of bounds. An outlet pass to Dominique Wilkins bounces off his hands and into the scorer’s table. Three dead-ball turnovers — three plays that could not have been considered a steal opportunity. And, yet, the box score indicated zero such plays.

It also meant an opportunity to hand out three excess steals to Bulls players.

We compared notes again. We both saw only two legitimate steals by Michael Jordan. The box score credited him with five. An excess of three steals. (To be precise, we saw two Jordan steals, at best, but possibly only one — when he poked the ball, chased it down and saved it from going out of bounds before throwing it directly to the Hawks for a turnover. The other play — a transition deflection by Jordan’s teammate Mike Brown that was recovered by Jordan — could have gone either way.) There were three steals unaccounted for.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;14924130]This is just a wall of bullshit unless you can explain 3 dead ball turnovers bring credited as steals.....[/QUOTE]


That's the point - we don't know that deflections out of bounds were credited as steals or who they were credited to.. That's why the only way to guarantee that Jordan was credited with fake steals is to count all the live-ball turnovers during the game and then say that Jordan's reported steals was more than the live-ball turnovers.

That's the only way to guarantee it and that's why the live-ball turnover count is the critical aspect because we already know how many steals were reported for Jordan..

But we cannot verify the live-ball turnovers because Haberstroh purposefully picked 6 games that aren't on youtube where the only guy that had the games was a guy in Latvia - literally - that's who he got the games from.

That's the whole fraud and everything was true in my previous post that explained how the "normal" home inflation of prior eras was due to tougher road conditions and far worse road records, while the one-off, massive inflation of 88' Jordan, 90' Hakeem and 86' Robertson is explained by any number of factors such as personal issues that affected home and road performance in that particular year.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;14924130]This is just a wall of bullshit unless you can explain 3 dead ball turnovers bring credited as steals.....[/QUOTE]

3 dead ball turnovers were credited as steals for Jordan.

[QUOTE=8Ball;14924144]3 dead ball turnovers were credited as steals for Jordan.[/QUOTE]


We don't know if they were - he's just saying they might have been

When you're watching a game, the announcers don't say who the steal is being credited to each time, or if it's even a steal... Only the record-keepers for the game are doing that.

that's why the live-ball turnover thing mattered because it was the only fool-proof way to show that Jordan had fake steals - if Jordan's steals were higher than the live-ball turnovers, than voila - this shows that Jordan was credited with fake steals... But we cannot verify the live-ball turnovers because Haberstroh chose 6 games that aren't on youtube - he got the games from a guy in Latvia that had them on VHS... literally.. that's how he got the games to make sure that no one can verify the live-ball turnover count (the key to proving fake steals for Jordan)

[QUOTE=3ba11;14924158]We don't know if they were - he's just saying they might have been

When you're watching a game, the announcers don't say who the steal is being credited to each time, or if it's even a steal... Only the record-keepers for the game are doing that.

that's why the live-ball turnover thing mattered because it was the only fool-proof way to show that Jordan had fake steals - if Jordan's steals were higher than the live-ball turnovers, than voila - this shows that Jordan was credited with fake steals... But we cannot verify the live-ball turnovers because Haberstroh chose 6 games that aren't on youtube - he got the games from a guy in Latvia that had them on VHS... literally.. that's how he got the games to make sure that no one can verify the live-ball turnover count (the key to proving fake steals for Jordan)[/QUOTE]

They were fool, do the math 10 Hawks turnovers, 10 Bulls Steals. 3 uncredited dead ball turnovers, 3 missing steals for Jordan. It's not that hard to connect dots 3melt.

[QUOTE=8Ball;14924144]3 dead ball turnovers were credited as steals for Jordan.[/QUOTE]

Kid

stop worrying about 3 dead ball accredition and beating around the bush.

That man played full 82 games unlike your load managing illegal drug dealer

Just imagine how many "stocks" they might have missed together because they are UNCLEAN or CO-blocked.

By the time, Klutch Media is done with All full 82 games, all 48+ minutes each game,

MJ might end up with 300+ and 150+, lol. or maybe even more. That man did not rest on defense at age 24.

He is only 41 and 19 short.

Bron'sexuals and Klutch need to really worry about that. in the end, you might end up enhancing his legacy.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;14924172]They were fool, do the math 10 Hawks turnovers, 10 Bulls Steals. 3 uncredited dead ball turnovers, 3 missing steals for Jordan. It's not that hard to connect dots 3melt.[/QUOTE]


The dead ball numbers are Haberstroh's numbers and aren't documented anywhere else in history except Haberstroh's account of the footage, which he got from a guy in Latvia so no one can verify.. So the fraud is very real.. That's why I said that Haberstroh made sure that no one can verify the live-ball numbers, but this goes for the dead-ball numbers as well - this stuff isn't reported - you have to watch the entire games to see.

But again, the entire idea that someone can take the most negative interpretation of subjective things like deflections, steals or live balls and have that override the previous subjective ruling, while having a "night-before-class" 6-game sample is unbelievable.

So again, there are other far more viable reasons than [I]league-wide[/I] cheating bookkeepers for the "normal" level of home inflation that everyone had in previous eras, such as the far tougher road conditions that yielded horrible road records compared to today's teams.. So the "normal" levels of inflation can be explained this way, while the one-off, massive inflation from 88' Jordan, 90' Hakeem, 86' Robertson and others is due to personal reasons that affect home/road performance in that particular year, or other reasons.

[QUOTE=3ba11;14924188]The dead ball numbers are Haberstroh's numbers and aren't documented anywhere else in history except Haberstroh's account of the footage, which he got from a guy in Latvia so no one can verify.. So the fraud is very real.. That's why I said that Haberstroh made sure that no one can verify the live-ball numbers, but this goes for the dead-ball numbers as well - this stuff isn't reported - you have to watch the entire games to see.

But again, the entire idea that someone can take the most negative interpretation of subjective things like deflections, steals or live balls and have that override the previous subjective ruling, while having a "night-before-class" 6-game sample is unbelievable.

So again, there are other far more viable reasons than [I]league-wide[/I] cheating bookkeepers for the "normal" level of home inflation that everyone had in previous eras, such as the far tougher road conditions that yielded horrible road records compared to today's teams.. So the "normal" levels of inflation can be explained this way, while the one-off, massive inflation from 88' Jordan, 90' Hakeem, 86' Robertson and others is due to personal reasons that affect home/road performance in that particular year, or other reasons.[/QUOTE]

What's really going to bake your noodle is when you realize how many advanced metrics use blocks and steals, and that the extent of this number fudging could delegitimize his advanced stats we've used in so many debates......

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;14924197]What's really going to bake your noodle is when you realize how many advanced metrics use blocks and steals, and that the extent of this number fudging could delegitimize his advanced stats we've used in so many debates......[/QUOTE]


Nope... Even if you don't believe in logic and only believe in Haberstroh's lies, we have the offensive side of BPM - offensive box plus/minus (OBPM).

MJ is #1 in OBPM (8.80), while Jokic is 2nd (8.18) and Lebron is 3rd (7.50)... So MJ is still goat by a mile, even if you're a victim of the fraud and believe he isn't nearly as good as he was.

[QUOTE=3ba11;14924199]Nope... Even if you don't believe in logic and only believe in Haberstroh's lies, we have the offensive side of BPM - offensive box plus/minus (OBPM).

MJ is #1 in OBPM (8.80), while Jokic is 2nd (8.18) and Lebron is 3rd (7.50)... So MJ is still goat by a mile, even if you're a victim of the fraud and believe he isn't nearly as good as he was.[/QUOTE]


Sure we do, but when you debate a players dpoy candidacy alot of us look at stuff like Defensive Win Shares, Defensive Rating, Block%, Steal%. All affected by steals or blocks stats. Also some people's go to catch all stats PER and Winshares? Steals and Blocks. It could be really bad.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;14924201]Sure we do, but when you debate a players dpoy candidacy alot of us look at stuff like Defensive Win Shares, Defensive Rating, Block%, Steal%. All affected by steals or blocks stats. Also some people's go to catch all stats PER and Winshares? Steals and Blocks. It could be really bad.[/QUOTE]

Could be. But could also not be. All this from some dude in Latvia who has an alleged 6 game sample size on VHS lmao. Author still has yet to release any tape. I wonder why :oldlol:

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;14924172]They were fool, do the math 10 Hawks turnovers, 10 Bulls Steals. 3 uncredited dead ball turnovers, 3 missing steals for Jordan. It's not that hard to connect dots 3melt.[/QUOTE]

The denial is insane. :oldlol:

[IMG]https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1ae21a18-853e-4e08-89e4-7793d6c37cbb_304x252.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE=theman93;14924203]Could be. But could also not be. All this from some dude in Latvia who has an alleged 6 game sample size on VHS lmao. Author still has yet to release any tape. I wonder why :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

A 6 game sample size supported by anomalous stats from the same year, kept by a guy who was quoted as telling Mj "i take care of you" and is also known for pumping a player from a precvous eras stats so hard they say he made him famous. Also love the dismissal without any sort of proof or data of your own, very ISH of you. Anybody who likes watching old games to a particular level knows the NBA has an iron grip on its old game archives, they have them but they won't share them. Wilt and Russell fans have been begging for the release of games they have for decades already. If the author were to release the VHS full games they have the NBA would immediately hit them with a copyright takedown, let's not act brand new. You guys might be slow, but you aren't this dumb.

6 game sample size from 2011 Finals is all we need to show that this entire discussion isn’t really relevant

try to take away all the steals you want and jordan is still the goat by far

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;14924215]A 6 game sample size supported by anomalous stats from the same year, kept by a guy who was quoted as telling Mj "i take care of you" and is also known for pumping a player from a precvous eras stats so hard they say he made him famous. [B]Also love the dismissal without any sort of proof or data of your own[/B], very ISH of you. Anybody who likes watching old games to a particular level knows the NBA has an iron grip on its old game archives, they have them but they won't share them. Wilt and Russell fans have been begging for the release of games they have for decades already. If the author were to release the VHS full games they have the NBA would immediately hit them with a copyright takedown, let's not act brand new. You guys might be slow, but you aren't this dumb.[/QUOTE]

Thats not how it works buddy. The burden of proof is on the person making the claim, not me.
“Trust me bro, I watched the VHS with my Latvian homie” is hardly that.

Anyways, there was already a video posted early that easily discredited the article.

[QUOTE=warriorfan;14924223]6 game sample size from 2011 Finals is all we need to show that this entire discussion isn’t really relevant

try to take away all the steals you want and jordan is still the goat by far[/QUOTE]
Both are also higher in the all-time rankings and have more finals mvps than your precious lil' chef. :ohwell:

[QUOTE=Axe;14924225]Both are also higher in the all-time rankings and have more finals mvps than your precious lil' chef. :ohwell:[/QUOTE]

But one guy jumps multiple ships just to make SUPER team to win FMVPs. He cannot build. He can only buy.

Chef atleast created his own DYNASTY.

SUPER teams given the other guy FMVPs. which make them weak FMVPs. Almost non-FMVPs. Just as good as chef not winning.

[QUOTE=theman93;14924224]Thats not how it works buddy. The burden of proof is on the person making the claim, not me.
“Trust me bro, I watched the VHS with my Latvian homie” is hardly that.

Anyways, there was already a video posted early that easily discredited the article.[/QUOTE]

No it didn't.

[QUOTE=theman93;14924224]Thats not how it works buddy. The burden of proof is on the person making the claim, not me.
“Trust me bro, I watched the VHS with my Latvian homie” is hardly that.

Anyways, there was already a video posted early that easily discredited the article.[/QUOTE]

How do you figure it discredited anything, cause it said nuh-uh? :oldlol: That's a pretty sizeable article with lots of details and info. You've gotta do better than that chap. I dunno if the numbers are fake, you guys just might be better defenders than Mj....

[QUOTE=theman93;14924224]Thats not how it works buddy. The burden of proof is on the person making the claim, not me.
[b]“Trust me bro, I watched the VHS with my Latvian homie”[/b] is hardly that.

Anyways, there was already a video posted early that easily discredited the article.[/QUOTE]

Boom.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;14924256]How do you figure it discredited anything, cause it said nuh-uh? :oldlol: That's a pretty sizeable article with lots of details and info. You've gotta do better than that chap. I dunno if the numbers are fake, you guys just might be better defenders than Mj....[/QUOTE]

I actually don’t have to do anything at all. That’s on Haberstroh. His evidence ultimately boiled down to, “trust me I watched it”. LOL sorry not good enough. MJ has a DPOY and your boy doesn’t. That’s how it will be for the rest of time. :violin:

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;14924256]How do you figure it discredited anything, cause it said nuh-uh? :oldlol: That's a pretty sizeable article with lots of details and info. You've gotta do better than that chap. I dunno if the numbers are fake, you guys just might be better defenders than Mj....[/QUOTE]

It's a very detailed article. If a random poster made that article into a thread on realgm or on this site, it would easily be thread of the year. MJ stans just can't handle facts.

[QUOTE=theman93;14924266]I actually don’t have to do anything at all. That’s on Haberstroh. His evidence ultimately boiled down to, “trust me I watched it”. LOL sorry not good enough. [B]MJ has a DPOY and your boy doesn’t[/B]. That’s how it will be for the rest of time. :violin:[/QUOTE]

Ethered :lol

wonder if that gen z baldy actually knows what VHS is

[QUOTE=theman93;14924266]I actually don’t have to do anything at all. That’s on Haberstroh. His evidence ultimately boiled down to, “trust me I watched it”. LOL sorry not good enough. MJ has a DPOY and your boy doesn’t. That’s how it will be for the rest of time. :violin:[/QUOTE]

Haberstroh already did otherwise you wouldn't be in here looking dumber by the post. Your response is basically "trust me over him, I didn't watch tho" Mj does have a dpoy and he's my boy just like Lebron. I just don't like the fake ass rhetoric from posters like yourself. You know why I'm not bothered by the article? Because I'm not hellbent on proving any of my 3 are goat.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;14924270]Haberstroh already did otherwise you wouldn't be in here looking dumber by the post. Your response is basically "trust me over him, I didn't watch tho" Mj does have a dpoy and he's my boy just like Lebron. I just don't like the fake ass rhetoric from posters like yourself. You know why I'm not bothered by the article? Because I'm not hellbent on proving any of my 3 are goat.[/QUOTE]
This same poster claimed the bible is factual btw. His evidence is "god wrote it" or something like that. I have no problem with religious people and think a higher power is possible, just saying that's the level of delusion you're dealing with.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;14924270]Haberstroh already did otherwise you wouldn't be in here looking dumber by the post. Your response is basically "trust me over him, I didn't watch tho" Mj does have a dpoy and he's my boy just like Lebron. I just don't like the fake ass rhetoric from posters like yourself. You know why I'm not bothered by the article? Because I'm not hellbent on proving any of my 3 are goat.[/QUOTE]

Nice strawman. I’ve never said for anyone to trust me. I’ve simply stated that’s what Haberstroh has done. No footage, no clips, no gifs, no pictures, no nothing — just Haberstroh and the underground Latvian’s alleged word. Little idiot content creators all over YouTube and Twitter are able to post clips all the time, but Haberstroh can’t with this magnitude of an allegation? In an obvious hit piece? LOL ok :roll:

[QUOTE=RRR3;14924271]This same poster claimed the bible is factual btw. His evidence is "god wrote it" or something like that. I have no problem with religious people and think a higher power is possible, just saying that's the level of delusion you're dealing with.[/QUOTE]

I dunno how old many of you are here, but there used to be a meme about the "church of Kobe" , Mj stans have blown past that level.

[QUOTE=theman93;14924274]Nice strawman. I’ve never said for anyone to trust me. I’ve simply stated that’s what Haberstroh has done. [B]No footage, no clips, no gifs, no pictures, no nothing — just Haberstroh and the underground Latvian’s alleged word[/B]. Little idiot content creators all over YouTube and Twitter are able to post clips all the time, but Haberstroh can’t with this magnitude of an allegation? In an obvious hit piece? LOL ok :roll:[/QUOTE]
that's enough for you to believe the bible :confusedshrug:

[QUOTE=RRR3;14924271]This same poster claimed the bible is factual btw. His evidence is "god wrote it" or something like that. I have no problem with religious people and think a higher power is possible, just saying that's the level of delusion you're dealing with.[/QUOTE]

theman93 is a bible thumper too?

Dear lord the depths of Jordan mythology attracts the bottom feeders.

[QUOTE=RRR3;14924282]that's enough for you to believe the bible :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]

False :confusedshrug:

[QUOTE=theman93;14924289]False :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]
Prove the stories in the bible are any more real than the Greek myths.

[QUOTE=RRR3;14924282]that's enough for you to believe the bible :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]

[IMG]https://media.tenor.com/A0REOBRcXzcAAAAM/black-boy-reaction.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE=RRR3;14924296]Prove the stories in the bible are any more real than the Greek myths.[/QUOTE]

Non sequitur.

[QUOTE=8Ball;14924283]theman93 is a bible thumper too?

Dear lord the depths of Jordan mythology attracts the bottom feeders.[/QUOTE]

Thread lightly Bigot

Its the Black Jesus you are insulting. :facepalm

[QUOTE=8Ball;14924283]theman93 is a bible thumper too?

Dear lord the depths of Jordan mythology attracts the bottom feeders.[/QUOTE]
Coach is currently reading this atm. :lol

[Img]https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRvYX_W6NZwdQV_W0WN1-9K4NNkA7QhTvFAFQMvnIWGwS4A16NG-t9gS38&s=10[/img]

Which probably explains why he's being so delusional rn. :roll: