The Bulls will regret their decision if they draft Rose over Beasley

The overrating of Rose is ludicrous.

[QUOTE=aj1987]Why are you bringing up a FIVE game sample, when I was talking about the whole year?
[/quote]
Surely you know Noah and Boozer missed a ton of games and hardly played well together. The five game sample illustrated their yearly issue.
[quote]
Yeah, LOL! You must be the only person in the world who thinks Rose is a good defender. Dude is AVERAGE. Do you think his team had nothing to do with it?
As I said, Wade was an elite defender. Rose wasn't even remotely close. [/quote] Sorry you aren't an elite defender if another player has to guard your player at critical times of the game. Rose was a much better defender than given credit for. Most people don't know how much pace affects the game and its under defense.

And once again I am talking about Rose holding Wade better than I seen any player hold a healthy Wade in the post season. You keep running from that.

[quote]
Rose sucked ass against the Thunder, TP averaged 6 PPG more than his RS average against Rose, Curry averaged more than his RS average, etc. You were saying? [/quote]
Curry wasn't an elite player at that time, sorry, he had little impact on the game and his team was 10 games under 500. One game he got his average 17 points and Bulls blew them out by 30. But he did get 23 in the other game in a win. Once again he's a hot new player that wasn't really elite.

Rose destroyed SA that year. TP got 26 points in a blow out loss where Rose had 40 something when the game was critical to both of them. And Rose dominated him in that game. TP did get 2.5 points higher than his '11 average in the early season game (20 points which isn't really a good game).

Westbrook and Rose in the first game had 28 points on each other in the first game of the season before the Bulls coach got his injured team together. The second game Brook was held to 40% shooting and 15 points.

[quote]
FACT: The Heat curb stomped the Bulls.
FACT: The Rose is an AVERAGE defender.
FACT: The Bulls team defense bothered Wade and his shot was off.
[/quote]
All of that is perception. But good try.

[quote]
Are you legit retarded or just trolling? Can't tell. What does any of that have to do with Wade being a significantly better player than Rose? If you're bringing up the Finals, LeBron sucked ass and Dirk was incredible in the clutch. If Rose was on the Heat in the Finals, Miami would've gotten SWEPT. Lets also not forget Wade's injury in game 5, which affected him the rest of the series. [/quote]
:lol Ohhh right it was a 9 game series. :oldlol:

[quote]
They were expected to be better because the BIG 3, moron.
[/quote]
:lol Really, you're kidding me? And Wade was the step down Beta, when they needed it?
[quote]
Listen up, shit for brains. Shaq sucked ass in the Finals. The same Shaq who averaged 13 PPG. Shaq was also an average to below average defender in '06. What happened to Shaq when Wade went down in the 2005 ECF? Is your dumbass also gonna pretend that the Heat were even remotely close to being good outside these two? Again, '11 Rose on the '05 and '06 Heat would've resulted in 2nd round losses at BEST. How are you gonna act like you know ANYTHING about basketball, when you think Rose is a better overall player than Wade? Or that Wade can't "take over" games? Or that Wade can't win without another offensive player? Oh, and Shaq averaged 18 PPG in the '06 Playoffs. 19 the previous year.
[/quote]
To say he wasn't garnering super attention on the blocks is monumental foolishness. Wade averaged an incredible 35ppg that series. And he doesn't get half the respect Dirk does - the same guy that he beat in that series. Wonder why??? He wasn't even considered the best shooting guard the next year. Wasn't even clear he was the Alpha on that team when he played his butt off - I actually thought he was but read the boards here.

[quote]
I'm done with this discussion. It's pretty clear that you're biased to the point of being delusional. For the final time, Wade > Rose offensively and defensively. Wade > Rose as a player and it's not even close.[/QUOTE]
Beta roll with the punches. Beta yet, maybe not. Sorry if you team up with the best player you can't have excuses.

Don't get me wrong Wade is a great player but if you step down off of the leader stage you better be the best second best player without excuses. Only stans are going to make excuses for you. On Inside Edition other players were saying Penny and Tmac were better than Wade. So don't say it's only me clown. And through out your life people will and should always respect the person taking over the helm with energy than the guy stepping down off of it. Rose had way more responsibility, and was the key to his team. Wade was stepping down and wasn't the key to his team.

Biiiig Difference.

[QUOTE=SugarHill]The overrating of Rose is ludicrous.[/QUOTE]

Defend yourself. I have repeated myself here a number of times. I view a guy with a ton of responsibilities and being the key to his team winning better than I do a guy that's willing makes himself number two. On "Open Court" Wade was dogged because of this very same reason. I think Wade in his prime is a straight up beast. One of the best 2 guards ever, top 3 of the ones I ever seen play. But when a guy steps off the stage he loses a lot of shine. And in 2011, he did something that can only be rectified by winning it all or an incredible year.

My premise is that you can't be granted the two spot if you walk away from the one spot.

Back then I'm sure most people picked Beasley. Beasley was an absolute beast in college. He was supposed to be robin to wade but then 2010 happened.

[QUOTE=aj1987]Are you trying to say that Rose carried that team? :facepalm

As I said, that team was DAMN good defensively and has two 15+ PPG scorers. [B]Stop pretending like Wade wouldn't get the same/better results with that team[/B].


[/QUOTE]

how do idiots get away with saying stuff like this. wade in 2011 had a better team than rose and the heat still had a worst record not to mention a losing record against elite teams. rose in 2011 carried the bulls in a rediculous way similar to 2006 dwyane wade, and i havent seen dwyane wade play like that since then.

OP, what does it feel like to have intelligence that rivals Will Hunting?

[QUOTE=aj1987]Why are you bringing up a FIVE game sample, when I was talking about the whole year?


Yeah, LOL! You must be the only person in the world who thinks Rose is a good defender. Dude is AVERAGE. Do you think his team had nothing to do with it?
As I said, Wade was an elite defender. Rose wasn't even remotely close.


Can't you read simple English? We're comparing two players. Wade's defense >>>> Rose's defense. It's as simple as that.

Rose sucked ass against the Thunder, TP averaged 6 PPG more than his RS average against Rose, Curry averaged more than his RS average, etc. You were saying?


FACT: The Heat curb stomped the Bulls.
FACT: The Rose is an AVERAGE defender.
FACT: The Bulls team defense bothered Wade and his shot was off.



[B]Are you legit retarded or just trolling? Can't tell. [/B]What does any of that have to do with Wade being a significantly better player than Rose? If you're bringing up the Finals, LeBron sucked ass and Dirk was incredible in the clutch. If Rose was on the Heat in the Finals, Miami would've gotten SWEPT. Lets also not forget Wade's injury in game 5, which affected him the rest of the series.


They were expected to be better because the BIG 3, moron.



Listen up, shit for brains. Shaq sucked ass in the Finals. The same Shaq who averaged 13 PPG. Shaq was also an average to below average defender in '06. What happened to Shaq when Wade went down in the 2005 ECF? Is your dumbass also gonna pretend that the Heat were even remotely close to being good outside these two? Again, '11 Rose on the '05 and '06 Heat would've resulted in 2nd round losses at BEST. How are you gonna act like you know ANYTHING about basketball, when you think Rose is a better overall player than Wade? Or that Wade can't "take over" games? Or that Wade can't win without another offensive player? Oh, and Shaq averaged 18 PPG in the '06 Playoffs. 19 the previous year.


:roll:

Rose sucked ass against the Thunder, TP averaged 6 PPG more than his RS average against Rose, Curry averaged more than his RS average, etc. You were saying?

Rose is an average defender at his BEST. Dude is not even on rookie Wade's level defensively.


A Rose stan talking about being beta? Ironic. :oldlol:

Anyways, we're talking about '11. The year when Wade averaged more points that LeBron in the Playoffs. The year when they were 1a and 1b. [B]Try to keep up, Mr. Special needs.
[/B]
I'm done with this discussion. It's pretty clear that you're biased to the point of being delusional. For the final time, Wade > Rose offensively and defensively. Wade > Rose as a player and it's not even close.[/QUOTE]


Is there really a need to get personal? Pointguard is simply laying out his reasoning and you start calling him names..

You lose all credibility by saying Wade is better than Rose as a player and it's not even close. :hammerhead:

Wade was better than Rose and it's not too close.

Outscored him in the regular season, outrebounded him averaged more blocks and steals on WAY better efficiency while losing shots to Lebron.
MUCH Better defender that year.
Poido youre delusional if you think Wade didnt receive a ton of defensivr attention because of Lebron:roll:

Wades series against Boston and Dallas that year blow away anything that Rose did in the playoffs that year.

Im on my phone so I'm not going to answer pointguards points till tomorrow night. But the overrating of Rose needs to stop.

[QUOTE=Papaya Petee]Wade was better than Rose and it's not too close.

Outscored him in the regular season, outrebounded him averaged more blocks and steals on WAY better efficiency while losing shots to Lebron.
MUCH Better defender that year.
Poido youre delusional if you think Wade didnt receive a ton of defensivr attention because of Lebron:roll:

Wades series against Boston and Dallas that year blow away anything that Rose did in the playoffs that year.

Im on my phone so I'm not going to answer pointguards points till tomorrow night. But the overrating of Rose needs to stop.[/QUOTE]

heres some stats that will show rose played better than wade that season. Against elite competition which i accounted the top 4 teams in each conference, whom consisted of boston, chicago, orlando, miami, spurs, mavs, lakers and okc.

dwyane wade stats against those teams in 2010-11 were
21.4 points and 4.1 assists leading his team to a 7-12 record against those teams(a losing record)

rose's stats against those elite teams were
26.9 points and 6.7 assists and leading his team to 12-6 reason(a winning record).

womp womp, take your garbage basketball IQ somewhere else. The underating of roses mvp season needs to stop. idiots claiming westbrook and wade were better, what a ****ing joke. :roll:

[B][SIZE="4"]wade vs rose against elite teams in 2011

wade 21.4 points and 4.1 assists (7-12)

rose 26.9 points and 6.7 assists (12-6)

[B]wade was better?????? makes sense????[/B]


[/SIZE][/B]

[QUOTE=Papaya Petee]Wade was better than Rose and it's not too close.

Outscored him in the regular season, outrebounded him averaged more blocks and steals on WAY better efficiency while losing shots to Lebron.
MUCH Better defender that year.
Poido youre delusional if you think Wade didnt receive a ton of defensivr attention because of Lebron:roll:

Wades series against Boston and Dallas that year blow away anything that Rose did in the playoffs that year.

Im on my phone so I'm not going to answer pointguards points till tomorrow night. But the overrating of Rose needs to stop.[/QUOTE]
Wade had more help in that Dallas loss (where he massively choked btw) and especially in that boston and chicago series than rose ever had.

Wade was playing next to the best player in the league as a 100% robin. He could literally take whole series off with sub 20 ppg sub 50TS averages.. and have his team win.:oldlol:

Rose had to create offensive numbers under entirely more pressure. And he did so until the playoffs when teams could key in on one man teams.. 2011 Wade would've fared no better than Rose did. Wade choked worse in that Dallas series than he had in any other years.. talking 4th quarter closing minute crunch time stats. Lebron was just worse so he overshadowed him.

[QUOTE=tpols]
[B]Rose had to create offensive numbers under entirely more pressure. And he did so until the playoffs when teams could key in on one man teams[/B].[/QUOTE]
Even LeBron at the same age, 22, against the 2007 Spurs. Without Boobie Gibson being on fire. He performed just as awful. The over criticism of Derrick Rose's performance against the cowardly stacked 2011 Miami Heat is alarming to say the least.

[QUOTE=poido123]Is there really a need to get personal? Pointguard is simply laying out his reasoning and you start calling him names..

You lose all credibility by saying Wade is better than Rose as a player and it's not even close. :hammerhead:[/QUOTE]
When people think that Rose is an elite defender and that Wade can't carry a team, then there is no sensible debate to be had. Dude was just cherrypicking his arguments and completely ignoring the facts. Heck, he said that Wade took a step back in 2011, when he CLEARLY said that [B]after[/B] the '11 season. Dude's an idiot.

[QUOTE]Wade choked worse in that Dallas series than he had in any other years.. talking 4th quarter closing minute crunch time stats. Lebron was just worse so he overshadowed him.
[/QUOTE]
Game 2 - Missed 2 3 points in the final ~40 seconds. Scored 9 points before that on 2-2 and 4-4 shooting. I put this loss on LeBron. Missed 4 shots and had a TOV after the lead.

Game 3 - 3/4 shooting for 7 points in the final ~6 minutes. A clutch 2 pt shot to put Miami up by 2. Bosh took and made the eventual game winner. 2 point win.

Game 4 - 3 points in the Final 30 seconds (1-1 and 1-2 FT's). Miller took and missed the game winner. 3 point loss.

[QUOTE=nathanjizzle]heres some stats that will show rose played better than wade that season. Against elite competition which i accounted the top 4 teams in each conference, whom consisted of boston, chicago, orlando, miami, spurs, mavs, lakers and okc.

dwyane wade stats against those teams in 2010-11 were
21.4 points and 4.1 assists leading his team to a 7-12 record against those teams(a losing record)

rose's stats against those elite teams were
26.9 points and 6.7 assists and leading his team to 12-6 reason(a winning record).

womp womp, take your garbage basketball IQ somewhere else. The underating of roses mvp season needs to stop. idiots claiming westbrook and wade were better, what a ****ing joke. :roll:[/QUOTE]
With all those stats and beating "elite" teams, he surely must've made the Finals and won a ring, right? :oldlol:

[QUOTE=aj1987]

With all those stats and beating "elite" teams, he surely must've made the Finals and won a ring, right? :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

what does that matter? the topic of discussion is who was better in 2010 -2011 and the stats show that rose played better. Their is really no argument to make otherwise besides hypothetical points like "wade is a better defender":roll: and "bulls with wade would have done better":roll: sykk

just face it, you believed and shared misinformation. in reality, rose won the mvp, wade had an elite team, and he wasnt even a thought for the conversation. it must be the media scheming against wade and lebron right? but wait, lebron was in the convo, but why not wade? lol

[QUOTE=nathanjizzle]what does that matter? the topic of discussion is who was better in 2010 -2011 and the stats show that rose played better. Their is really no argument to make otherwise besides hypothetical points like "wade is a better defender":roll: and "bulls with wade would have done better":roll: sykk

just face it, you believed and shared misinformation. in reality, rose won the mvp, wade had an elite team, and he wasnt even a thought for the conversation. it must be the media scheming against wade and lebron right? but wait, lebron was in the convo, but why not wade? lol[/QUOTE]
When the **** did I say Wade deserved the MVP? :facepalm

All I said was that Wade was the better player that year. Also, do you honestly believe that Rose was the better defender and offensive player? :facepalm

[QUOTE=aj1987]When the **** did I say Wade deserved the MVP? :facepalm

All I said was that Wade was the better player that year. Also, do you honestly believe that Rose was the better defender and offensive player? :facepalm[/QUOTE]

comprehend alittle harder. maybe i was insinuating that if wade played better than rose then he would have been in the mvp conversation

and yes, rose was the better offensive player that year and im not just talking about scoring, im talking about offensive creation. defensively, rose is as good or better at guarding his position as wade is. rose was just the better player that year. again 7-12 record against elite teams with lebron on your team, where was the leadership?

[QUOTE=nathanjizzle]comprehend alittle harder. maybe i was insinuating that if wade played better than rose then he would have been in the mvp conversation

and yes, rose was the better offensive player that year and im not just talking about scoring, im talking about offensive creation. defensively, rose is as good or better at guarding his position as wade is. rose was just the better player that year. again 7-12 record against elite teams with lebron on your team, where was the leadership?[/QUOTE]
Nope. Not with LeBron on the Heat. LeBron averaged 27/7/7/2/1 on near 60% TS with elite defense.

I don't know why you guys keep saying that Rose is a good defender. I don't like the DRtg stat (since it takes team defense into account more than individual defense), but Rose had a lower DRtg on a better defensive team. Even if you look at RAPM (another stat which I don't like to use), Wade was at 0.4 and Rose was at -1.2.

You keep bringing up the 7-12 stat, but fail to mention that 6 of those losses were against the Celtics and Bulls. The two team which Miami completely destroyed in the Playoffs (even with a struggling Wade in the ECF). 3 of those losses came during the initial stretch when Miami 8-9.

As PLAYERS, there is NO argument for taking Rose over Wade. Wade was the better offensive AND defensive player. I'm not saying that he deserved the MVP. As I said, there was NO way that Wade was winning MVP that season with LeBron on his team. Was was just the better player though.

BTW, don't forget that Wade got off to a slow start and really picked it up after the first ~15 games. 27/7/5/2/1 on 69% TS after the first 20 games. A 57 game sample size.

[QUOTE=aj1987]Nope. Not with LeBron on the Heat. LeBron averaged 27/7/7/2/1 on near 60% TS with elite defense.

I don't know why you guys keep saying that Rose is a good defender. I don't like the DRtg stat (since it takes team defense into account more than individual defense), but Rose had a lower DRtg on a better defensive team. Even if you look at RAPM (another stat which I don't like to use), Wade was at 0.4 and Rose was at -1.2.

You keep bringing up the 7-12 stat, but fail to mention that 6 of those losses were against the Celtics and Bulls. The two team which Miami completely destroyed in the Playoffs (even with a struggling Wade in the ECF). 3 of those losses came during the initial stretch when Miami 8-9.

As PLAYERS, there is NO argument for taking Rose over Wade. Wade was the better offensive AND defensive player. I'm not saying that he deserved the MVP. As I said, there was NO way that Wade was winning MVP that season with LeBron on his team. Was was just the better player though.

BTW, don't forget that Wade got off to a slow start and really picked it up after the first ~15 games. 27/7/5/2/1 on 69% TS after the first 20 games. A 57 game sample size.[/QUOTE]

idiot.

wade vs rose against elite teams in 2011

wade 21.4 points and 4.1 assists (7-12)

rose 26.9 points and 6.7 assists (12-6)

somehow this idiot thinks wade played better than rose that year. go figure.

[QUOTE=nathanjizzle]idiot.

wade vs rose against elite teams in 2011

wade 21.4 points and 4.1 assists (7-12)

rose 26.9 points and 6.7 assists (12-6)

somehow this idiot thinks wade played better than rose that year. go figure.[/QUOTE]
You're using a 19 game sample size, you ****ing chipmunk. :facepalm

Funny how you ignored the rest of my post.

Wade > Rose as a player. Now go play with your toys. You seem as mentally competent as Rose.

How did this thread turn into Wade vs Rose? :oldlol:

Sticking with the OT, as a Heat fan I definitely wanted Rose over Beasley and was extremely disappointed with getting the #2 pick. A Rose/Wade backcort would've been pretty insane.

[QUOTE=Pointguard]They were 23 and 28th in offense without Rose. Carrying and winning with a young inexperienced team is very different than being the second best player on your team. No exceptions.

Wade has never had any success carrying a big offensive burden in like 12 years now. In his best year '09 it didn't happen.[/QUOTE]
:facepalm

Rose's team was a playoff team without him. Wade's team in 09 was the worst team in the league without him.

[QUOTE=aj1987]When people think that Rose is an elite defender and that Wade can't carry a team, then there is no sensible debate to be had. Dude was just cherrypicking his arguments and completely ignoring the facts. Heck, he said that Wade took a step back in 2011, when he CLEARLY said that [B]after[/B] the '11 season. Dude's an idiot. [/quote]
:lol You're so weak, I have mercy on you. I'll line up how silly you sound and we can debate all you want.

1)Where have I said Wade can't carry a team? I said he didn't have much success. Before '11 he was an all time great - I already said this. But once you go Beta its starts off as a lower standard.

2)And what idiot would think that becoming the second best player on your own team isn't a step back from competing for the best player in the game? Are you really this dense? You don't know the difference in being responsible and the key to your team winning and being number two? You really think that isn't a step down. Beta get some learning in.

3)I said Rose was a good defender because of his control of pace and holding down the elite at his position and he confused the hell out of Wade. Different if Wade was just missing but he didn't know what to do once he found out he couldn't over power Rose. I never said Rose was elite.

Your paragraph has no foundation at all but that's how you roll.

Thanks to the Chi-town contingent.

[QUOTE=aj1987]You're using a 19 game sample size, you ****ing chipmunk. :facepalm

Funny how you ignored the rest of my post.

Wade > Rose as a player. Now go play with your toys. You seem as mentally competent as Rose.[/QUOTE]
:lol It funny when you see someone, with a certain character, who knows he's losing the argument start trying to divert, start name calling, and trying to insult players. Why don't you grow up and try making sense.

What Nathan was showing you that Wade had fully embraced a second best player role. That's why he had no effect in the finals. When Lebron made it known he was going to take five mental health days, it wasn't like Dallas feared Wade at all. They had no fear that Wade was going to be effective in the series. They didn't throw the kitchen sink at Wade.

Wade didn't want to step up. He took 18 shots per game with Lebron practically begging him to take over. No way in hell would Rose have gone out with that type of whimper - much less with his shot going in. That mentality is why Dallas had no concern about Wade. And Wade was HOT!!! The mentality difference was huge. Wade was a number two not trying to be number one. That hurts your ranking. Wade in 2009 was great. But that doesn't do him any good in 2011.

[QUOTE=aj1987]You're using a 19 game sample size, you ****ing chipmunk. :facepalm

Funny how you ignored the rest of my post.

Wade > Rose as a player. Now go play with your toys. You seem as mentally competent as Rose.[/QUOTE]

:roll: "19 game sample size" its not a "sample" these 19 games are what actually matter in the season.

wade 21.4 points and 4.1 assists (7-12)

rose 26.9 points and 6.7 assists (12-6)

wade was better? mentally competent you say?

2011 Wade >> 2011 Rose. People can say whatever they want offensively for whoever, but Wade was the best TWO WAY GUARD in the league and a much better defensive player than Rose in 2011.

[QUOTE=Smoke117][B]2011 Wade >> 2011 Rose[/B]. People can say whatever they want offensively for whoever, but Wade was the best TWO WAY GUARD in the league and a much better defensive player than Rose in 2011.[/QUOTE]

wade 21.4 points and 4.1 assists (7-12)

rose 26.9 points and 6.7 assists (12-6)

wades defense is really effective as you can tell by their record

[QUOTE=Smoke117]2011 Wade >> 2011 Rose. People can say whatever they want offensively for whoever, but Wade was the best TWO WAY GUARD in the league and a much better defensive player than Rose in 2011.[/QUOTE]
So all the guys who scored more than Dirk in 2011 were better than him??? And isn't Dirk considered a top PF despite not being a two way player? You have totally dismissed impact.

wade's defense is so overrated.. a few highlight shot blocks and staredowns will do that for him. He didnt have great impact defensively.. according to rapms hes 10x more valuable offensively than he is defensively.

And rose did more offensively given his situation and teamthan wade did..especially in the RS when his guys were out, and on gamewinners/closing against top teams when the heat shot like 10% on them all year with wade completely conceding the 'closer' role to lebron in their very first year together

[QUOTE=Pointguard][B]So all the guys who scored more than Dirk in 2011 were better than him??? [/B]And isn't Dirk considered a top PF despite not being a two way player? You have totally dismissed impact.[/QUOTE]


What does Dirk have to do with anything?

I like Rose as a player, but what exactly does he do better than Wade? 3 point shooting? Besides that, Wade is better at literally every aspect of basketball.

[QUOTE=GrapeApe]I like Rose as a player, but what exactly does he do better than Wade? 3 point shooting? Besides that, Wade is better at literally every aspect of basketball.[/QUOTE]

I dont think anyones arguing about their general attributes as players.. theyre arguing about what they actually DID.. in that specific year.. Rose was better. Dwight Howard may have been infinitely more impactful than dirk in 2011 if you look at their contributions to scoring, rebound, and defending as a whole, but Dirk performed better, no question.

If a player that normally shoots 10% on gamewinners has a year where he shoots 8/10 and a normally clutch closer has a year where he shoots 1/10, the first player was a better closer in that year despite not being a better closer generally and for their whole career. Its just that one year.. nobody had wade over rose.

[QUOTE=Smoke117]What does Dirk have to do with anything?[/QUOTE]
"People can say whatever they want offensively for whoever, but Wade was the best TWO WAY GUARD in the league and a much better defensive player than Rose in 2011."

I am talking about the method in which you judge a player.

[QUOTE=Pointguard]"People can say whatever they want offensively for whoever, but Wade was the best TWO WAY GUARD in the league and a much better defensive player than Rose in 2011."

I am talking about the method in which you judge a player.[/QUOTE]

I'm not judging any players. I barely put any thought into my response as I don't think this deserves it. Anyone who thinks Rose was as good or better than Wade in 2011 is an idiot. End of discussion.

[QUOTE=Smoke117]I'm not judging any players. [B]I barely put any thought into my response[/B] as I don't think this deserves it. Anyone who thinks Rose was as good or better than Wade in 2011 is an idiot. End of discussion.[/QUOTE]
:lol Do you ever put thoughts into any of your responses? And then you think you can call other people idiots. Do you ever back up your thoughts? There are plenty of points to pick apart if you can back up your thoughts. Why is it I know you won't?

[QUOTE=Smoke117]I barely put any thought into my response.[/QUOTE]

:hammerhead:

[QUOTE=Pointguard]:lol Do you ever put thoughts into any of your responses? And then you think you can call other people idiots. Do you ever back up your thoughts? There are plenty of points to pick apart if you can back up your thoughts. Why is it I know you won't?[/QUOTE]

It isn't worth it. That is the point.

[QUOTE=tpols]I dont think anyones arguing about their general attributes as players.. theyre arguing about what they actually DID.. in that specific year.. Rose was better. Dwight Howard may have been infinitely more impactful than dirk in 2011 if you look at their contributions to scoring, rebound, and defending as a whole, but Dirk performed better, no question.

If a player that normally shoots 10% on gamewinners has a year where he shoots 8/10 and a normally clutch closer has a year where he shoots 1/10, the first player was a better closer in that year despite not being a better closer generally and for their whole career. Its just that one year.. nobody had wade over rose.[/QUOTE]

That's fair. I hadn't really read through all the posts in this thread. Personally I have no issues with Rose's MVP. He was outstanding that year. However, I do feel that '11 Wade is a bit underrated. It's certainly debatable as to who had the better season between him and Rose, but it's difficult to compare them due to the differences in circumstance/roles. I'm willing to say Rose had a slightly, very slightly, better regular season.

2011 Regular Season
Lebron
Dwight
Dirk
Durant
Kobe
Wade
All better than Froze.

[QUOTE=GrapeApe]That's fair. I hadn't really read through all the posts in this thread. Personally I have no issues with Rose's MVP. He was outstanding that year. However, I do feel that '11 Wade is a bit underrated. It's certainly debatable as to who had the better season between him and Rose, but it's difficult to compare them due to the differences in circumstance/roles. I'm willing to say Rose had a slightly, very slightly, better regular season.[/QUOTE]

I really think peak Wade was crazy good, among the best ever. I do have a problem with him acting like a number 2 in the finals in 2011. Lebron had stepped down. Wade shot 61% from 2 point land and decided to not push the issue. He had not wanted to be the man on his team. He only shot 18 times per game. Even his 3point game was hot (30% for him). You just can't be effective backing away from your strength. His production was solid but its the game that he didn't play that bothered me. He was content to go down as a number 2. He had that convenience the whole year.

Its unfair for the guys who take on all the responsibility, being the key to how the games turn out and play hard all the time, to be compared to guys that can just play without much riding on their play.

[QUOTE=Pointguard]I really think peak Wade was crazy good, among the best ever. I do have a problem with him acting like a number 2 in the finals in 2011. Lebron had stepped down. Wade shot 61% from 2 point land and decided to not push the issue. He had not wanted to be the man on his team. He only shot 18 times per game. Even his 3point game was hot (30% for him). You just can't be effective backing away from your strength. His production was solid but its the game that he didn't play that bothered me. He was content to go down as a number 2. He had that convenience the whole year.

Its unfair for the guys who take on all the responsibility, being the key to how the games turn out and play hard all the time, to be compared to guys that can just play without much riding on their play.[/QUOTE]
How hard is it to understand simple English?

Wade and LeBron were 1a and 1b in 2011. Wade said that he was going to take a step back and let LeBron do his thing AFTER the 2011 season. He was still prime Wade and was pretty much the leader of the team along with LeBron.

Also we're discussing their abilities as players and Wade was clearly the better player. He would've put up gaudy numbers if he didn't have to share the ball with LeBron.