Phil Jackson: Rodman is the greatest athlete I've ever coached

[QUOTE=Kebab Stall]I've tried it before and it feels wierd. When I tried it, the ball felt light, but heavy at the same time. When you go to shoot, you just have no juice in your arms and feels like your pushing up a rock.[/QUOTE]

i am an airball machine from three point range after lifting weights. if you lift any significant weight it feels like you are shooting with a medicine ball.

[QUOTE=gotbacon23]i am an airball machine from three point range after lifting weights. if you lift any significant weight it feels like you are shooting with a medicine ball.[/QUOTE]
I airball my free throws after lifting. Hell, even getting a drink after lifting can feel like hard work.

I'm still dumbfounded as to how anyone can think that Rodman is a better athlete than guys like Jordan or Shaq. If that's true, then he should be able to do most of the things Jordan could do physically. He can't.

I mean, I've read in this topic that he's just as fast, can jump just as high if not higher, and has "great body control." If all that's true, then why couldn't Dennis do the dunk seen at the 2:54-2:58 mark here:


[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwyqE22CSyM[/url]

...or hundreds of other such moves/plays. Could it be....oh, I don't know...[i]because he wasn't as good an athlete[/i]? :confusedshrug: All you need for that dunk is leaping ability, speed (to cover the distance), and body control (to contort your body). If Dennis was as good or better than Jordan in all of those areas, it stands to reason that he would be able to do things like that. Not only could he [b]not[/b] do them, but we can't even mentally conceive of him doing them. There's a reason for that.

[QUOTE=Loki]I'm still dumbfounded as to how anyone can think that Rodman is a better athlete than guys like Jordan or Shaq. If that's true, then he should be able to do most of the things Jordan could do physically. He can't.

I mean, I've read in this topic that he's just as fast, can jump just as high if not higher, and has "great body control." If all that's true, then why couldn't Dennis do the dunk seen at the 2:54-2:58 mark here:


[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwyqE22CSyM[/url]

...or hundreds of other such moves/plays. Could it be....oh, I don't know...[i]because he wasn't as good an athlete[/i]? :confusedshrug: All you need for that dunk is leaping ability, speed (to cover the distance), and body control (to contort your body). If Dennis was as good or better than Jordan in all of those areas, it stands to reason that he would be able to do things like that. Not only could he [b]not[/b] do them, but we can't even mentally conceive of him doing them. There's a reason for that.[/QUOTE]

you are definitley right- jordan's amazing body control- especially in mid-air, shows his athleticism as being superior to rodmans. i just started the form to basically make a point that rodman is very underrated as an athlete, not the best athlete. i think jordan is a better one along with some other guys.

[QUOTE=gotbacon23]you are definitley right- jordan's amazing body control- especially in mid-air, shows his athleticism as being superior to rodmans. i just started the form to basically make a point that rodman is very underrated as an athlete, not the best athlete. i think jordan is a better one along with some other guys.[/QUOTE]

I know. I've already said that Rodman is a great athlete. But it's not just body control that sets Jordan apart. I doubt Rodman could even dunk it with two hands simply from that distance, but all he'd need to do it are Jordan's speed and vertical. And since I've heard here that Rodman is just as fast if not faster, and is just as good a leaper, it makes you wonder why he couldn't do so.

That's a rhetorical question, in case you didn't get it. ;)

[QUOTE=EricForman]I do agree Rodman is an amazing athlete. (I believe he has a higher vertical than Jordan and Pip)

But there is more to being a bball player than just athletism. And it's silly of you to think Rodman could have surpassed Jordan as an offensive player just if he put in the effort. Jordan proved from 96 on his greatness wasn't based on athletism. It was 100% skill.[/QUOTE]


That's not true. That's not true at all. Lots of people have the same amount of skill as Jordan. Jordan dominated because he was so much more mentally focused than his opponents. He could turn it on just because someone pissed him off.

Rodman had that same intensity and that same mental focus. He focused it differently. Rodman could get into an opponents head like no one I've ever seen play the game (defensively).

Mathius

[QUOTE=Loki]I'm still dumbfounded as to how anyone can think that Rodman is a better athlete than guys like Jordan or Shaq. If that's true, then he should be able to do most of the things Jordan could do physically. He can't.

I mean, I've read in this topic that he's just as fast, can jump just as high if not higher, and has "great body control." If all that's true, then why couldn't Dennis do the dunk seen at the 2:54-2:58 mark here:


[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwyqE22CSyM[/url]

...or hundreds of other such moves/plays. Could it be....oh, I don't know...[i]because he wasn't as good an athlete[/i]? :confusedshrug: All you need for that dunk is leaping ability, speed (to cover the distance), and body control (to contort your body). If Dennis was as good or better than Jordan in all of those areas, it stands to reason that he would be able to do things like that. Not only could he [b]not[/b] do them, but we can't even mentally conceive of him doing them. There's a reason for that.[/QUOTE]
i dont think this is a fair example. for one thing, players like dr. J, jordan and connie hawkins had huge hands. second the dunks players are doing today own the dunks of the past. and im a history buff who loved the dunk contest of old. and i would not say that players today are more athletic than a jordan because they dunk better than him.

second, unless youve seen jordan race rodman or have 40 times i dont think you can say that he faster.

third, do you know how quick you have to be in order to out jump or continuously outjump an opponent that is probably 2-5 inches taller and is an athlete in their own right?

fourth, while i feel that jordan was a sensational athlete, i think rodman faired better guarding smaller guards than jordan guarding center. and rodman defened the best at all positions. which is a sign of another athletic endeavor.

let me point out something else. it seems to me that people are using jordans offense as a sign that he was a better athlete than rodman.

let me ask a question, what do charles barkley, shaq oneal, eddy curry, and kevin duckworth have in common? they were good offensive players and had or have a rep. for doggin it on defense. why? because they all were fat.

so please dont use offense as a basis for one being one of the greatest athletes.

not to mention. in football, your best athletes are cornerbacks (defense)
in baseball the best athletes are in the outfield and not the power hitters
are we making a connection here.

[QUOTE=97 bulls]i dont think this is a fair example. for one thing, players like dr. J, jordan and connie hawkins had huge hands. second the dunks players are doing today own the dunks of the past. and im a history buff who loved the dunk contest of old. and i would not say that players today are more athletic than a jordan because they dunk better than him.

second, unless youve seen jordan race rodman or have 40 times i dont think you can say that he faster.

third, do you know how quick you have to be in order to out jump or continuously outjump an opponent that is probably 2-5 inches taller and is an athlete in their own right?

fourth, while i feel that jordan was a sensational athlete, i think rodman faired better guarding smaller guards than jordan guarding center. and rodman defened the best at all positions. which is a sign of another athletic endeavor.[/QUOTE]

This is all basically bullsh!t. Sorry.

Rodman isn't nearly the athlete Jordan was. It has nothing to do with hand size. If, as has been said in this topic, Rodman is as fast or faster, has as good or better a vertical leap, and elite body control, he should be able to do that Jordan dunk and many other plays of his. The fact that he not only [b]didn't[/b] do them, but that we [b]can't even concieve of him doing them[/b] is an indictment of this ridiculous stance that Rodman > Jordan as an athlete.

Like I said, Rodman couldn't even do a simple two-handed dunk (no contortion) from where Jordan did it. So basically, this is all nonsense.

[QUOTE=97 bulls]let me point out something else. it seems to me that people are using jordans offense as a sign that he was a better athlete than rodman.

let me ask a question, what do charles barkley, shaq oneal, eddy curry, and kevin duckworth have in common? they were good offensive players and had or have a rep. for doggin it on defense. why? because they all were fat.

so please dont use offense as a basis for one being one of the greatest athletes.

not to mention. in football, your best athletes are cornerbacks (defense)
in baseball the best athletes are in the outfield and not the power hitters
are we making a connection here.[/QUOTE]

More bullsh!t. Just keep yapping and making no sense. :oldlol: It's not offense I'm judging him on, it's his (in)ability to make athletic plays on the level he should be able to if he were truly the cream of the crop.

I believe there must be a reason for Phil to say it that way...

[QUOTE=Kiddlovesnets]I believe there must be a reason for Phil to say it that way...[/QUOTE]

Yeah, to avoid controversy and perhaps impart a message to his audience about tenacity and dedication, since Rodman's athleticism largely embodied that since he was a fitness freak. It's easier for someone to aspire to be a Rodman-level athlete than a Jordan-level athlete, because Jordan's gifts are largely innate.

[quote=Loki]Yeah, to avoid controversy and perhaps impart a message to his audience about tenacity and dedication, since Rodman's athleticism largely embodied that since he was a fitness freak. It's easier for someone to aspire to be a Rodman-level athlete than a Jordan-level athlete, because Jordan's gifts are largely innate.[/quote]

Or a Shaq-level athlete.

[QUOTE=Godfather]Or a Shaq-level athlete.[/QUOTE]

I personally believe that Rodman isn't even the 4th best athlete Jackson has ever coached (MJ/Shaq/Kobe/Pippen/Grant are all ahead of him imo). I'm just trying to make a point.

[quote=Loki]I personally believe that Rodman isn't even the 4th best athlete Jackson has ever coached (MJ/Shaq/Kobe/Pippen/Grant are all ahead of him imo). I'm just trying to make a point.[/quote]
Just a little off topic here, but who do you believe was a superior athlete MJ or Shaq?

[COLOR=White]And lol you said something nice about Kobe...[/COLOR]