If George Mikan and Jerry West played in today's game, how good would they be?

[QUOTE]Because of the progress of the game, players who have broken new ground in certain areas have provided the basis for the next generation of players to develop those skills. For instance, the development of the dribble has progressed. Some guys only dribbled with one hand in Mikan's day. Then guys started using both. The "crossover" was simply an exchange between one hand to the other originally, but now it's commonly referred to a dribble between the legs. Guys like Cousy and Pistol were doing things ahead of their times, and because of the PROGRESSION of the sport, we now see players like AI, Chris Paul, and Tim Hardaway who were great ball handlers. Dribbling between the legs, with both hands, behind the back, etc are common abilities by today's guards which were things that were brought about by the progression. And that's just one example.[/QUOTE]Yes, and you know why they dribbled with one hand, looked down at the ball, and embarrassed themselves when trying to pull off a simple crossover that guys like Luke Ridnour can pull off with ease today? Because they were unathletic garbage.

[QUOTE]Also, the talent pool has expanded, the game has become more popular and because of that, the younger players have more ways of developing their games than in the 50's (including the racism that occurred). It's also easier off the court today, because if a player is talented, he gets to go to a top school, has it on easy street, and when he makes it to the league, gets paid an astronomical amount of money. Players in the 50's didn't get paid a lot of money compared to today's ratios, and some had to hold jobs in the off season. There were no private jets, but charter buses. Players today can afford personal trainers and dietitians who can prepare meals and they can have the luxury of dedicating themselves fully to the game, unlike former players. It's much easier in today's game to not only develop oneself as a player physically, but also off the court as well.[/QUOTE]
:roll:
Sorry, but having charter buses and private jets doesn't affect one's play at all. It's as easy to develop yourself physically today as it was back then. However, players today are much more athletic.

[QUOTE]Uh, West wasn't "unathletic". My point was that a top athlete then could certainly improve his body today compared to then. Not only has technology in regards to training methods improved and treatments to injuries, but as I pointed out earlier, it's easier for a player to develop themselves because of the change around the game as it's easier to take advantage of those assets. THE LEAGUE IS A HUGE BUSINESS NOW, and there is far more invested in a team resource wise than back then. There's no way Dwight Howard would be the physical specimen he is today if he were playing in the 50's or 60's. He'd be impressive nontheless ala Nate Thurmond, but he wouldn't have such a developed body or jumping ability, as the training and methods used today weren't available back then. [/QUOTE] West was unathletic. The abnormal freak of nature back then would be an abnormal freak of nature today. A top athlete back then would be an ok athlete today. A mediocre athlete back then would be a crap athlete today. A decent player back then would suck today. That's how it works.

[QUOTE]Just look at what Howard does: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1HIQpeyqTo[/url]

Mikan didn't have the luxury of having such resources and time to develop himself like today's players. He didn't have team gyms, trainers, equipment, training methods, diets, etc etc that helped Howard become what he is today.[/QUOTE]Mikan couldn't dream of doing what Howard does with these so-called "gyms, trainers, equipment, training methods and diets" today's players have. He just wasn't athletic enough.
[QUOTE]
I have no idea if he would be "far too slow", because there's no way of knowing how fast he would be if he trained in today's environment. BTW, Miller isn't anything near quick or athletic, and yet he was an all star PF.[/QUOTE] Miller was much more athletic than Mikan and is a one-time fluke all-star. He made that all-star appearance during a time when the center position was filled with terrible players.

BULLS wont stop until his idol Herbert Hill gets the mvp

[QUOTE=Stiff #1]The game hasn't evolved at all. [/QUOTE]

You should put that phrase above your avatar once you get enough posts. Wraps up your credibility quite nicely.

[QUOTE=Stiff #1]Yes, and you know why they dribbled with one hand, looked down at the ball, and embarrassed themselves when trying to pull off a simple crossover that guys like Luke Ridnour can pull of with ease today? Because they were unathletic garbage. [/quote]

Do you have any understanding of progression? THEY WERE BREAKING NEW GROUND BECAUSE THEY WERE DOING SOMETHING THAT HADN'T BEEN DONE BEFORE. Without them, you wouldn't have the players we see today.

[quote]:roll:
Sorry, but having charter buses and private jets doesn't affect one's play at all. It's as easy to develop yourself physically today as it was back then. However, players today are much more athletic. [/quote]

You are retarded. Off the court, players have a MUCH easier time developing because they have less and less to worry about. Their lives are easier because of economics of the game and the assets at their disposal in regards to the games. If you refuse to accept that, then I'm sorry but you are a moron.

[quote]West was unathletic. The abnormal freak of nature back then would be an abnormal freak of nature today.[/quote]

That's exactly my point. It's not that they were lesser people, but that today's methods help players reach their potential easier. West today would be a better athlete than he was because things have changed, just like Dwight would be a lesser specimen because he wouldn't have the advantages of the modern game.

[quote]Mikan couldn't dream of doing what Howard does with these so-called "gyms, trainers, equipment, training methods and diets" today's players have. He just wasn't athletic enough. [/quote]

What kind of logic is that? Howard DEVELOPED himself, just like Mikan could develop himself. Are you seriously saying Mikan was so physically inferior that he WAS INCAPABLE OF WORKING OUT IN A GYM?


Goddam, half my ignore list are your aliases, so WHY DON'T YOU TAKE A HINT AND LEAVE FOR GOOD? Or at least announce yourself whenever you make another one so we can all put you on ignore. Your level of stupidity is beyond absurd, to the point where I can only explain your level of stupidity as sarcasm.

[QUOTE=Showtime]Do you have any understanding of progression? THEY WERE BREAKING NEW GROUND BECAUSE THEY WERE DOING SOMETHING THAT HADN'T BEEN DONE BEFORE. [B]Without them, you wouldn't have the players we see today.[/B][/QUOTE]LMFAO. I take it that basketball is a new sport to you? Without them, we'd have the same players we have today. That's just obvious.

[QUOTE]You are retarded. Off the court, players have a MUCH easier time developing because they have less and less to worry about. Their lives are easier because of economics of the game and the assets at their disposal in regards to the games. If you refuse to accept that, then I'm sorry but you are a moron.[/QUOTE]Wrong again. Off the court, players have arguably a harder time developing because of the need to worry about the media's questions, public perception, etc. Back then, these bums had everything easy. The media didn't care about anything or make up bullsh*t rumors to stir up controversy. Players back then were soft.

[QUOTE]That's exactly my point. It's not that they were lesser people, but that today's methods help players reach their potential easier. West today would be a better athlete than he was because things have changed, just like Dwight would be a lesser specimen because he wouldn't have the advantages of the modern game.[/QUOTE]Learn the game. West would not be a better athlete if he played today because nothing has changed. If he wasn't a great athlete back then, when it was easier to train/develop your game, then he'd be a terrible one today.

[QUOTE]What kind of logic is that? Howard DEVELOPED himself, just like Mikan could develop himself. Are you seriously saying Mikan was so physically inferior that he WAS INCAPABLE OF WORKING OUT IN A GYM? [/QUOTE]You don't understand it? Too bad.

[QUOTE]Goddam, half my ignore list are your aliases, so WHY DON'T YOU TAKE A HINT AND LEAVE FOR GOOD? Or at least announce yourself whenever you make another one so we can all put you on ignore. Your level of stupidity is beyond absurd, to the point where I can only explain your level of stupidity as sarcasm. [/QUOTE]Alias? Get a clue. I started posting here 2 days ago.

Does this mean 30 years from now we're going to say that Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson were unathletic garbage?

[QUOTE=Mateo]Does this mean 30 years from now we're going to say that Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson were unathletic garbage?[/QUOTE]
Who were physically incapable of working out in gyms. They were barely able to hobble upcourt in the game that hasn't had one single change in 50+ years.

[QUOTE=Mateo]Does this mean 30 years from now we're going to say that Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson were unathletic garbage?[/QUOTE]
If not for the fact that Jordan is and always will be one of the 4-6 most athletic players to ever play the game, then sure.

[QUOTE=Stiff #1]If not for the fact that Jordan is and [B]always will be one[/B] of the 4-6 most athletic players to ever play the game, then sure.[/QUOTE]

Definitly not always. In about 20/30 years, they're will probably be 6+ more athletic players than Jordan. Not better, just more athletic.

Bump.


Now Jerry West was 6'3, fairly athletic, and had a 6'10 wingspan. And on top of that, a crazy quick release. He'd be just as good.



But Mikan? :kobe:

He had a trick to his lightning quick release. Right before he shoots he would pound the ball hard and catch it on the way up for a quick release.

Much quicker than loading the normal way.

West is as tall as Kobe with long arms and could get 16 inches above the rim in college. His last season in 73-74, he averaged 2.6 steals and 0.7 blocks at age 35.

Jerry west would be top 5 in league, Mikan maybe top 15ish

Picture a peak shaq with Bill Russell defense and rebounding and great freethrow shooting and you get George Mikan.

:oldlol:
Stiff1 is one of the historically biggest and oldest trolls ever, he'd been posting and banned in lots of forums and, of course, sought refuge in the official Asylum of NBA boards, and even here, after some time, he started getting repeatedly banned and changing nicknames. This topic is pretty old by itself (2008), and stiff1 had already been banned a crapload of times.

Did anyone think of that Ming 7_6 guy?
(I'm not implying they are the same person, but their cases had creepy similarities. But it seems like "stiff" gave up eventually).