Kobe Bryant scores 61 points against Knicks in Madison Square Garden

[QUOTE=Showtime]I'm not saying Kobe is A-Rod. I'm not saying Kobe is a bad player. I'm not saying Kobe is a poor scorer. [B]I'm saying I don't think they are on the same level. [/B] Why is this difficult to grasp? People think if I don't think Kobe is as good, it means he's a bad player. IT JUST MEANS I DON'T THINK THEY ARE ON THE SAME LEVEL. THAT'S ALL. [B]Kobe is a HOF SG, and might end up as the second best at his position of all time. He's arguably the best offensive player since MJ.[/B] Just because I don't think they are the same doesn't mean I think Kobe can't play.[/QUOTE]

:confusedshrug:

[QUOTE=NoGunzJustSkillz]:confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]
Reading comprehension FTW. Try reading again.

[QUOTE=Showtime]I'm not saying Kobe is A-Rod. I'm not saying Kobe is a bad player. I'm not saying Kobe is a poor scorer. I'm saying I don't think they are on the same level. Why is this difficult to grasp? People think if I don't think Kobe is as good, it means he's a bad player. IT JUST MEANS I DON'T THINK THEY ARE ON THE SAME LEVEL. THAT'S ALL. Kobe is a HOF SG, and might end up as the second best at his position of all time. He's arguably the best offensive player since MJ. Just because I don't think they are the same doesn't mean I think Kobe can't play.[/QUOTE]

C/s

People love to take it to extremes.

"So you don't think Kobe's the GOAT? then you must hate him!!"

Why can't people just be a basketball fan that calls it as they see it?

And if some of us have a certain reaction, its mostly to attempt to correct the ignorant fans out there. But as soon as one does that he gets labeled a "hater"... I mean.... damn shame.

[QUOTE=Showtime]I'm not saying Kobe is A-Rod. I'm not saying Kobe is a bad player. I'm not saying Kobe is a poor scorer. I'm saying I don't think they are on the same level. Why is this difficult to grasp? People think if I don't think Kobe is as good, it means he's a bad player. IT JUST MEANS I DON'T THINK THEY ARE ON THE SAME LEVEL. THAT'S ALL. Kobe is a HOF SG, and might end up as the second best at his position of all time. He's arguably the best offensive player since MJ. Just because I don't think they are the same doesn't mean I think Kobe can't play.[/QUOTE]

Exactly, we know that MJ is better overall because the history is written, the performances are out there.

My personal take on MJ:

A lot of people look at MJ as a guy who did things that nobody could do from a skill standpoint.

I don't think it's his skill that sets him so far apart. There's been better shooters, athletes, IMO. Looking at Le Bron now who can wow you just like MJ. I mean, that's what I'm saying with regards to Kobe and MJ -- I don't see many things that Kobe can't compare in terms of skill.

But I have always said Jordan's thing was consistency. Nobody in NBA history has consistently brought their "A" like MJ. He was good to great 90% the time. (Maybe this was the point that you're making in comparison to Kobe)

So I think we will definitely see some great athletes, great performances, and offensive talent in the NBA, but I don't know if we'll see consistent excellence on a nightly basis. Very few are close in that regard, (Jerry West is probably the closest)
like MJ>

[QUOTE=chopchop20]I don't see Iverson at all. Too small, Kobe ability to post up and finish on practically anybody makes this a mismatch (AI might not even be as good a point guard as Kobe.)[/quote]

Accomplishments:

AI's total games: 874
AI's 30 point games: 344
AI's scoring championships: 4

Kobe's total games: 913
Kobe's 30 point games: 295
Kobe's scoring championships: 2

I'm not doing an entire career comparison, but the point is as far as scoring, AI may not have reached Kobe's peak, but he's scored more 30 point games, has more scoring championships, and done so in fewer games. Kobe has the edge in efficiency, but if somebody said AI was in Kobe's league as far as scoring, you disagree.

Same with Gervin. He has the points record (along with Melo) in one quarter. He has 4 scoring championships. He's done things Kobe hasn't done. Doesn't that make them comparable?

Now, if you don't agree they are in the same class with Kobe, then why is it so hard to understand why many feel Kobe isn't in the same class as MJ?

[QUOTE=chopchop20]As a whole, I think Kobe has done well in the playoffs especially in the 3-peat, series where he averaged like 35 or so.[/quote]

Kobe has only averaged 33+ ppg in four playoff series in his career, two of which were last year. He's only averaged 35 ppg in one series in his career. Why are you saying "series" as in "more than one"?

Kobe has averaged 33+ ppg in just four playoff series in his entire career. 33.4 ppg is Jordan's [b]career playoff average[/b] (which includes numerous past-prime years). To this day, Kobe only has [b]one playoff series in his entire career[/b] which surpasses Jordan's [b]career playoff average[/b] in terms of ppg. But feel free to keep trying to change the subject from what you originally implied, which is that Kobe is somehow in Jordan's universe as a playoff scorer/performer.

[QUOTE=andgar923]C/s

People love to take it to extremes.

"So you don't think Kobe's the GOAT? then you must hate him!!"

Why can't people just be a basketball fan that calls it as they see it?

And if some of us have a certain reaction, its mostly to attempt to correct the ignorant fans out there. But as soon as one does that he gets labeled a "hater"... I mean.... damn shame.[/QUOTE]

It's not about being the GOAT. My problem is that people come at Lakers fans like we just sit around all day making up fairy tales about Kobe. Like everything he does is imaginary.

Kobe's place in history like any other is subjective. And yes, there will be a very small few who might say he is better than MJ. To me that's besides the point, cuz opinions are like a-holes.

I just try to shine the light on the fact that hey -- this guy is actually pretty good, he's done some really good things on the court and it's not make believe.

[QUOTE=OldSchoolBBall] [B]But feel free to keep trying to change the subject from what you originally implied, which is that Kobe is somehow in Jordan's universe as a playoff scorer/performer.[/B][/QUOTE]

Show me where I made that statement that suggests that.

Some people in this thread are outrageous in their comparisons.

61 (and 0 boards) against the D'Antoni, Phoenix style, run and gun, no defense as a trademark and almost part of their philosophy Knicks, is nowhere near the accomplishment of 55 in MJ'S 5TH GAME BACK from playing another sport against the Ewing, Starks, Harper, Mason, Oakley, etc. defensive minded Knicks.

C'mon, Kobe's great but get serious. :confusedshrug:

[QUOTE=BIZARRO]Some people in this thread are outrageous in their comparisons.

61 (and 0 boards) against the D'Antoni, Phoenix style, run and gun, no defense as a trademark and almost part of their philosophy Knicks, is nowhere near the accomplishment of 55 in MJ'S 5TH GAME BACK from playing another sport against the Ewing, Starks, Harper, Mason, Oakley, etc. defensive minded Knicks.

C'mon, Kobe's great but get serious. :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]

I thought the thread about the game, tonight. Then I get here and see all this talk about all-tie greatness and the millionth comparison to MJ.

[QUOTE=chopchop20]I thought the thread about the game, tonight. Then I get here and see all this talk about all-tie greatness and the millionth comparison to MJ.[/QUOTE]
Maybe you should have come in earlier when Kobe was being called the GOAT scorer.

[QUOTE=Showtime]Accomplishments:

AI's total games: 874
AI's 30 point games: 344
AI's scoring championships: 4

Kobe's total games: 913
Kobe's 30 point games: 295
Kobe's scoring championships: 2

I'm not doing an entire career comparison, but the point is as far as scoring, AI may not have reached Kobe's peak, but he's scored more 30 point games, has more scoring championships, and done so in fewer games. Kobe has the edge in efficiency, but if somebody said AI was in Kobe's league as far as scoring, you disagree.

Same with Gervin. He has the points record (along with Melo) in one quarter. He has 4 scoring championships. He's done things Kobe hasn't done. Doesn't that make them comparable?

Now, if you don't agree they are in the same class with Kobe, then why is it so hard to understand why many feel Kobe isn't in the same class as MJ?[/QUOTE]

Your point is logical if you're basing your argument entirely on career stats which was not my intention. But if that's your intention, we could easily end this conversation by mentioning Mr. Chamberlain whose "numbers" trump all in this discussion.

[QUOTE=catzhernandez]Edit - Your white text got me![/QUOTE]

:cheers:

[QUOTE=chopchop20]Show me where I made that statement that suggests that.[/QUOTE]

Sure. Showtime posted:

[quote=Showtime]Since others are bringing up the subject, if Kobe is on par with MJ in terms of scoring, then why can't he dominate the playoffs like he dominates occasional regular season teams? Why doesn't he have some of his most memorable performances against the best teams in the playoffs? Why can't he bring it when it matters most against the best competition? I honestly thought after last season's finals, this issue would die.[/quote]

You said in response:

[quote=chopchop20]Because you fail to see the totality of Kobe's playoff performances.[/quote]

Rather than admitting that Kobe is nowhere near the playoff performer/scorer that Jordan is (which he isn't), you tried to obfuscate and make excuses. You made it sound like Showtime would realize that they're not that far apart if only he could grasp "the totality of Kobe's playoff performances" like you have. :oldlol:

Again, Kobe has only had one playoff series in his [b]entire career[/b] that exceeds Jordan's career playoff [b]average[/b] (35.0 ppg vs. MJ's 33.4 ppg career average). Kobe's [b]best[/b] [u]single series[/u] average (35.0 ppg) is basically Jordan's [b]111 game, 9 season playoff average[/b] upon retirement in 1993 (34.8 ppg).

Tell me again how he's comparable as a playoff scorer. And if, based on the above, you concede that he's not (as any sane person would in the face of such overwhelming evidence), then please state so unequivocally. Thanks.