Well I cant agree that Iverson is the better scorer. He apparently takes more shots than Wade and he had like 39-41% from the field...
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Well I cant agree that Iverson is the better scorer. He apparently takes more shots than Wade and he had like 39-41% from the field...
[QUOTE=Kiddlovesnets]Well I cant agree that Iverson is the better scorer. He apparently takes more shots than Wade and he had like 39-41% from the field...[/QUOTE]
Would you agree with the statement that prime Kobe was the best SG in the league and for a stretch of 2-3 seasons the best player in the game? Despite Lebron, Wade and maybe 3-4 other players being more EFFICIENT scorers? Iverson wasn't the most efficient scorer but even the shooting percentages are deceiving. He actually had a great midrange touch and was unstoppable getting to the rim. What butchered his shooting percentages were double teams and getting hammered at the rim, poor shot selection. His actual shooting touch on a jumper blows away current Wade.
Iverson was a MUCH more dependable and explosive scorer than Wade.
[QUOTE=Samurai Swoosh]This just isn't true ...
With Carmelo Anthony
2006 - 2007 (50 games)
25 ppg, 7 apg, 3 rpg, FG 45%
2007 - 2008 (82 games)
26 ppg, 7 apg, 3 rpg, FG 46%
That's a system player?
And to be fair ... when he was winning scoring titles left and right as a 5'11 SG in the NBA ... he was still playing in the tough, physical defensive era.
That all changed in 2005 / 2006 -ish ... but you get the point.
And that's no knock on my boy Wade, cause he's right there with him as it stands right now. But the defense Wade faces aren't near as physical as they were pre 2005.
Iverson mashed on those defenses. See how his FG% was alot more comprable to Rose, Kobe, Carter, McGrady, Wade in 2006, 2007, and 2008 AT [B]THE TWIGHLIGHT of his career? It's a) because of the rule changes and b) because he finally was playing with a capable scorer beside him for once.[/B]
Lets us also not forget that in 2003 and 2004, on Team USA ... surrounded by top tier talent, and even though the USA committee was reluctant to put him on the team because the baggage he carried and what he represented with his looks ... Iverson meshed with all-stars in a competitive setting ... AND WAS THE BEST PLAYER ON THE USA TEAM BOTH YEARS.
Yes, he was the best and most consistent player on the 2004 Olympic Team ... which had everyone's favorite overrated PF, Tim Duncan ... who absolutely blew in the Olympics.[/QUOTE]
very good points for those who never really know shitz about basketball
[QUOTE=colorz]No one is wrong to say Wade is better than Iverson or Iverson is better than Wade. It's all opinion. Some people have made some good points for both players and just because someone thinks the opposite doesn't mean they're morons.[/QUOTE]
somehow agree with u, but to some say wade is WAY better than Iverson is purely idiotic
Hey good post Samurai. I missed it.. glad dude above me quoted it. I basically said something similar about MUCH tougher defenses and less reffing in Iverson's prime. With as injury prone as Wade is.. he probably would of had a career ending injury dealing with the elite defenders of the early 00's.
[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]I suppose ignorant would be more appropriate than morons. I understand different opinions but anyone that calls AI overrated or says Wade is light years better DID NOT watch prime Iverson. I'm 100 percent sure of that. As many others have said Wade is a lot like Iverson. Version 2.0 isn't always better in every way than the original. I have no problem with people saying Wade. What I do have a problem with is people slandering Iverson with things like "He's overrated".. "He's a glorified chucker" when it's clear as day they NEVER watched Iverson.
It pisses me off that so many pseudo fans of the NBA run around on these forums. Guys that enjoy an occasional debate or love advanced stats but don't truly appreciate, study or respect this amazing, historic sport.[/QUOTE]
Stop making assumptions about people who disagree with you. I began watching basketball in 1980. The first game I ever saw was Game 7 of the 1980 NBA Finals. Furthermore, I'm originally from outside of Philly, and I watched the Sixers just about every time they were on TV. I know exactly who Iverson is and is not.
And you're missing half of the equation when it comes to Wade. He is a rich man's Iverson... combined with a poor man's Jordan. A player who simultaneously plays below the defense and above the rim. He combines Iverson's ability to create off the bounce and draw contact with Jordan's ruthless efficiency, defense, and all-around game (the poor man's version of it).
I have watched both of these players hundreds of times-- probably Iverson more than Wade actually, since I only lived in Florida for a year--, and I am VERY comfortable telling you that Wade since 04-05 has been better than AI ever was.
[QUOTE=jrong]Stop making assumptions about people who disagree with you. I began watching basketball in 1980. The first game I ever saw was Game 7 of the 1980 NBA Finals. Furthermore, I'm originally from outside of Philly, and I watched the Sixers just about every time they were on TV. I know exactly who Iverson is and is not.
And you're missing half of the equation when it comes to Wade. He is a rich man's Iverson... combined with a poor man's Jordan. A player who simultaneously plays below the defense and above the rim. He combines Iverson's ability to create off the bounce and draw contact with Jordan's ruthless efficiency, defense, and all-around game (the poor man's version of it).
I have watched both of these players hundreds of times-- probably Iverson more than Wade actually, since I only lived in Florida for a year--, and I am VERY comfortable telling you that Wade since 04-05 has been better than AI ever was.[/QUOTE]
Did I call you by name? Tons of ignorant people in this thread posting about sh** they never watched. Your OPINION that Wade is better doesn't sway me one way or the other nor have I complained about that opinion by other people. What I don't like is the ignorant statements about how Wade was gobs better because it's not true no matter what you THINK. To say one is better is subjective.... but to say one is WAY better is a gross exaggeration considering Iverson had more overall team success and nearly identical prime stats in a MUCH tougher, more physical era.
They are on the same tier and I'm sure 90 percent of legit basketball fans could agree with that. To claim Wade is a tier above Iverson overall.. prime for prime is a false statement.
[QUOTE=jrong]Stop making assumptions about people who disagree with you. I began watching basketball in 1980. The first game I ever saw was Game 7 of the 1980 NBA Finals. Furthermore, I'm originally from outside of Philly, and I watched the Sixers just about every time they were on TV. I know exactly who Iverson is and is not.
And you're missing half of the equation when it comes to Wade. He is a rich man's Iverson... combined with a poor man's Jordan. A player who simultaneously plays below the defense and above the rim. He combines Iverson's ability to create off the bounce and draw contact with Jordan's ruthless efficiency, defense, and all-around game (the poor man's version of it).
I have watched both of these players hundreds of times-- probably Iverson more than Wade actually, since I only lived in Florida for a year--, and I am VERY comfortable telling you that Wade since [B]04-05[/B] has been better than AI ever was.[/QUOTE]
wade with new rulez is way better than AI during the tougher defense era, got ur point
[QUOTE=Shih508]wade with new rulez is way better than AI during the tougher defense era, got ur point[/QUOTE]
Lol I do find it funny that so many people here are disregarding the eras. It's exactly why very few call Bill Russell or Wilt the greatest player of all time. Jordan played against the best who have played the game. In the most physical era of all time. Against the best defenders of all time. In the era where refs let players play the most without bogus calls. Iverson came at the tail end of Jordan's Bulls career. Jordan retired after the 98 ring.. and AI was a rookie in 96. Iverson's prime of 00-01 was still in an elite league.
These teams would absolutely manhandle the teams in this era.
99-01 Blazers
00-03 Lakers
01-04 Kings
00-03 Sixers
99-05 Spurs
01-05 Pistons
The era-bias here is astounding. You always hear statements thrown around about how one era is tougher or more competitive than another, which unless you can quatify that statistically, is based upon nothing more than nostalgic memory. Today's players have to contend with zones, double-teaming off-the-ball, and the only form of illegal defense that exists is defensive three-seconds. The rule changes work against them just as much as they supposedly work for them.
[QUOTE=jrong]The era-bias here is astounding. You always hear statements thrown around about how one era is tougher or more competitive than another, which unless you can quatify that statistically, is based upon nothing more than nostalgic memory. Today's players have to contend with zones, double-teaming off-the-ball, and the only form of illegal defense that exists is defensive three-seconds. The rule changes work against them just as much as they supposedly work for them.[/QUOTE]
No dude just no. Not everything can be quantified. Sometimes things just are. Anyone who's been a long time fan of basketball would tell you not all eras are created equally. You honestly believe Wilt would of put up 40 and 30 or w/e in this era? Shaq, David Robinson, Mutombo, Mourning, Ben Wallace era??? FU** NO. Sure now players can zone up but you also aren't allowed to touch anyone, hand check or any of that. Not to mention the actual physicality and volume of defense stoppers have plummeted. You seem to be in denial about this.
[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]No dude just no. Not everything can be quantified. Sometimes things just are. Anyone who's been a long time fan of basketball would tell you not all eras are created equally. You honestly believe Wilt would of put up 40 and 30 or w/e in this era? Shaq, David Robinson, Mutombo, Mourning, Ben Wallace era??? FU** NO. Sure now players can zone up but you also aren't allowed to touch anyone, hand check or any of that. Not to mention the actual physicality and volume of defense stoppers have plummeted. You seem to be in denial about this.[/QUOTE]
And they can be double-teamed off the ball! MJ is the GOAT, but I do wonder what 80s and 90s defenses would have done if they couldn't double LeBron James off-the-ball.
Throw stats out the window, Wade is better. He's better offensively, imo, but what's not debatable is that he's a lot better defensively, and yes, I think an efficient scorer like Wade is much easier to build around. He has a championship ring, a legendary playoff run/finals series, and he's playing in the conference finals for the 3rd time.
[QUOTE=jrong]The era-bias here is astounding. You always hear statements thrown around about how one era is tougher or more competitive than another, which unless you can quatify that statistically, is based upon nothing more than nostalgic memory. Today's players have to contend with zones, double-teaming off-the-ball, and the only form of illegal defense that exists is defensive three-seconds. The rule changes work against them just as much as they supposedly work for them.[/QUOTE]
Somewhat true.
However, not acknowledging how much easier perimeter players have it right now compared to the 90s or the early part of this 00's is just silly.
I'd take Wade over Iverson rather easily, but prime Iverson in this league since 05 would be putting up 35 a game if wanted to on much better efficiency.
Just look at what Iverson did in 06.
33 a game on 45% shooting.....54% true shooting.
Its not random that Iverson had his best scoring year in the same year the NBA really went overboard on the new rules.
[QUOTE=ShaqAttack3234]Throw stats out the window, Wade is better. He's better offensively, imo, but what's not debatable is that he's a lot better defensively, and yes, I think an efficient scorer like Wade is much easier to build around. He has a championship ring, a legendary playoff run/finals series, and he's playing in the conference finals for the 3rd time.[/QUOTE]
Pretty much this.