Joakim Noah fined $50K for using anti-gay slur from bench during Heat-Bulls Game 3

[QUOTE=bagelred]Is that rhetorical?[/QUOTE]
it wasn't meant to be but probably is.

[QUOTE=JMT]

There are dozens of cameras, each assigned to different shots/coverage. One of those is the shot of the respective benches. The camera that was "deliberately trained" on Noah is the same one that shows shots of the bench throughout the game. It's [B]always[/B] there, and every player knows it.

This isn't your chucker league at the Y. These are highly paid professionals who are counseled by the league on how to conduct themselves on and off the court. They're not innocent babes thrown to the wolves.

I like Noah and his intensity. But to try and place the blame on the media, the fan or anyone but him for his stupid action is even more immature than his action.[/QUOTE]

I'm fully aware of the camera setup. That doesn't excuse that the camera used to show the benches was ZOOMED in on Noah and shown on-air at just the right moment. Are you trying to say that the camera for the Bulls bench wasn't deliberately zoomed in, once it was seen that Noah was having an altercation? How many other shots of Noah on the bench was broadcast on-air last night? Nothing you can say will convince me that the Bulls bench camera wasn't deliberately zoomed in, once the camera crew caught wind of a potential confrontation between Noah and the fan.

Having a different opinion than yours on the issue isn't immature, but I'd say calling others who have a different view immature [U]is[/U] very much a sign of immaturity.

[QUOTE=Dragonyeuw]I'm fully aware of the camera setup. That doesn't excuse that the camera used to show the benches was ZOOMED in on Noah and shown on-air at just the right moment. [B]Are you trying to say that the camera for the Bulls bench wasn't deliberately zoomed in, once it was seen that Noah was having an altercation?[/B] How many other shots of Noah on the bench was broadcast on-air last night? Nothing you can say will convince me that the Bulls bench camera wasn't deliberately zoomed in, once the camera crew caught wind of a potential confrontation between Noah and the fan.

Having a different opinion than yours on the issue isn't immature, but I'd say calling others who have a different view immature [U]is[/U] very much a sign of immaturity.[/QUOTE]

Again, you want to blame the camera instead of the professional who allowed himself to get caught up in an altercation. Failure to accept responsibility for ones actions is pretty much the definition of immaturity.

Let's take this a different direction.

Should the cameras show the benches at all? Were the shots of Westbrook post-benching the other night fair game? Durant putting his head in his hands when they were getting blitzed in the 3rd? Jackson pokming Gasol in the chest in Game 4 vs Mavs?

Interested in your opinion on those.

[QUOTE=JMT]Don't disagree that fans go overboard, but...within the parameters set forth on the back of the ticket...they pretty much do have the right to act like assholes. You and I can agree that it's not right, but it's the contract.

[/QUOTE]

I don't agree. I don't care the circumstances, you don't have the arbitrary right to act like an asshole just because you laid down some money. Now again, I don't know what the fan said, maybe it was just a 'you suck Noah' comment and that ignited him. Or it could have been something else more provocative.

Again, I'm not condoning Noah's outburst, but it's reasonable to ask just how much protection the players are being given from unruly fans, or are we just going to go with the '[I]you're a professional millionaire athlete, suck it up and turn off your emotions[/I]' routine? That's a flawed argument, by that measure the next time I go to a restaurant and I don't like the service, I have the arbitrary right to f**k off the waiter, turn the table upside down, and piss on the floor and the staff have to take it, because they're professionals. Why? Because I'm a paying customer, so I do what I want. Yeah.....ok. Obviously I'm giving an extreme example, but the principle is that there is still an expectation of behaving yourself in a certain manner when out in public, no matter not.

I'd like to see the back of a ticket stub that states that the holder like act like a moron. If that's the case, the next NBA game I attend, I'm going to sit courtside and throw my beer on-court, just because I'm a paying customer and I can be an asshole. The back of the ticket says so.....

[QUOTE=Dragonyeuw]I don't agree. I don't care the circumstances, you don't have the arbitrary right to act like an asshole just because you laid down some money. Now again, I don't know what the fan said, maybe it was just a 'you suck Noah' comment and that ignited him. Or it could have been something else more provocative.

Again, I'm not condoning Noah's outburst, but it's reasonable to ask just how much protection the players are being given from unruly fans, or are we just going to go with the '[I]you're a professional millionaire athlete, suck it up and turn off your emotions[/I]' routine? That's a flawed argument, by that measure the next time I go to a restaurant and I don't like the service, I have the arbitrary right to f**k off the waiter, turn the table upside down, and piss on the floor and the staff have to take it, because they're professionals. Why? Because I'm a paying customer, so I do what I want. Yeah.....ok. Obviously I'm giving an extreme example, but the principle is that there is still an expectation of behaving yourself in a certain manner when out in public, no matter not.

I'd like to see the back of a ticket stub that states that the holder like act like a moron. If that's the case, the next NBA game I attend, I'm going to sit courtside and throw my beer on-court, just because I'm a paying customer and I can be an asshole. The back of the ticket says so.....[/QUOTE]

Nope. Specifically says you can be ejected for throwing things on the court. Fail.

Listen, we can spend days discussing the reprehensible way that people conduct themselves in public. People get dumber and more obnoxious every day. But using ridiculous examples is just that. Ridiculous.

There's not a shred of evidence the fan did anything out of the norm. Nothing. So you can defend a principle, but so far, that principle doesn't have anything to do with this situation.

[QUOTE=JMT]Again, you want to blame the camera instead of the professional who allowed himself to get caught up in an altercation. Failure to accept responsibility for ones actions is pretty much the definition of immaturity.

Let's take this a different direction.

Should the cameras show the benches at all? Were the shots of Westbrook post-benching the other night fair game? Durant putting his head in his hands when they were getting blitzed in the 3rd? Jackson pokming Gasol in the chest in Game 4 vs Mavs?

Interested in your opinion on those.[/QUOTE]

I've already said that I don't condone Noah's act, several times. The point I'm making is that the camera was intentionally zoomed in on Noah's altercation. There's no way that was a random by chance occurrence of him being caught on-camera.

Again, the camera caught Westbrook and the coach, going at it, and proceeded to further zoom in on Westbrook as he was mouthing off. This ain't about what the cameras should or shouldn't do, I'm just saying that the occurrences of catching the athlete like what happened to Kobe, Westbrook, and Noah is deliberate. Is that excusing their acts? [U][B]NO[/B][/U]. I'm saying the cameras were deliberately zoomed in on the players [B][U]specifically to catch their actions[/U][/B]. Once Noah went to the bench, why didn't the camera stay on-court? Why didn't it zoom onto the Heat's bench? Or a random shot of a fan poking their nose? Why was it, trained RIGHT on Noah, at THAT moment?

Interested in your opinion on that.

Players shouldn't fined for saying fa[COLOR="Black"]g[/COLOR]got. Nowadays when people say it, they are not referring to gay people, but people who are just douchebags in general.
Like Harley Riders.

[QUOTE=JMT]Nope. Specifically says you can be ejected for throwing things on the court. Fail.

Listen, we can spend days discussing the reprehensible way that people conduct themselves in public. People get dumber and more obnoxious every day. But using ridiculous examples is just that. Ridiculous.

There's not a shred of evidence the fan did anything out of the norm. Nothing. So you can defend a principle, but so far, that principle doesn't have anything to do with this situation.[/QUOTE]

Yes we can spend days, or rather you can. I've made my point, you've made yours. We don't agree, and I'm not investing anymore time on the argument.

There's not a shred of evidence that the fan DIDN'T do anything out of the norm, is it? I can play that too... but whatever.

[QUOTE=Dragonyeuw]I've already said that I don't condone Noah's act, several times. The point I'm making is that the camera was intentionally zoomed in on Noah's altercation. There's no way that was a random by chance occurrence of him being caught on-camera.

Again, the camera caught Westbrook and the coach, going at it, and proceeded to further zoom in on Westbrook as he was mouthing off. This ain't about what the cameras should or shouldn't do, I'm just saying that the occurrences of catching the athlete like what happened to Kobe, Westbrook, and Noah is deliberate. Is that excusing their acts? [U][B]NO[/B][/U]. I'm saying the cameras were deliberately zoomed in on the players [B][U]specifically to catch their actions[/U][/B]. Once Noah went to the bench, why didn't the camera stay on-court? Why didn't it zoom onto the Heat's bench? Or a random shot of a fan poking their nose? Why was it, trained RIGHT on Noah, at THAT moment?

Interested in your opinion on that.[/QUOTE]

I'll address yours despite your dancing around mine.

There were cameras on all those other spots at that moment. The guys in the truck...whose job is to determine what is the most compelling shot at any given moment...chose the Noah situation. Why wouldn't they? A professional athlete was telling a fan to **** off.

Did we miss any game action because of it? no. That's why they have all those cameras and production tools.

Certainly this is not your first experience with the media selling the sensational.

[QUOTE=Dragonyeuw]Yes we can spend days, or rather you can. I've made my point, you've made yours. We don't agree, and I'm not investing anymore time on the argument.

There's not a shred of evidence that the fan DIDN'T do anything out of the norm, is it? I can play that too... but whatever.[/QUOTE]


Seriously??? There's no proof someone didn't do something is your burden of proof???

:roll:

[QUOTE=JMT]Seriously??? There's no proof someone didn't do something is your burden of proof???

:roll:[/QUOTE]

Except..... I didn't use it as a statement of proof. Only that you have no more information of what the fan did than I do. So there's no definitive statement to be made one way or the other.

And bear in mind, I've already said I don't know exactly what the fan did. So yes, to a degree my argument is more on the principle of all this. We likely won't know what the fan said, unless Noah tells us, because all the focus is naturally on him as the athlete.

[QUOTE=bluechox2]so paying customers shud get fined also for instigating it
buying a ticket legally binds you to also act appropriately[/QUOTE]

the customer is always right.. david stern will act accordingly.

[QUOTE=JMT]I'll address yours despite your dancing around mine.

There were cameras on all those other spots at that moment. The guys in the truck...whose job is to determine what is the most compelling shot at any given moment...chose the Noah situation. Why wouldn't they? A professional athlete was telling a fan to **** off.

Did we miss any game action because of it? no. That's why they have all those cameras and production tools.

Certainly this is not your first experience with the media selling the sensational.[/QUOTE]

Don't see where I danced around your points, but whatever works for you. How about this: why doesn't the camera people NOT chose to zoom in on an argument? What purpose does it serve for you as the person watching the game? Did it enrich your day? Did it make your overall experience watching the game that much better? I'd reckon no.... I understand the role of the camera crew to catch the most 'compelling' shot at a given moment, but realistically, at the end of the day, I'm tuning in watch a basketball game, not a soap opera. If they hadn't taken that shot, would we be any worse off for it? Would we be making this into a big national crisis?

I believe I mentioned something about the media and sensationalism. I already know that,but thanks for the lecture in any event. Anyways, I've said all I have to say.

[QUOTE=Dragonyeuw]Except..... I didn't use it as a statement of proof. Only that you have no more information of what the fan did than I do. So there's no definite statement to be made one way or the other.

And bear in mind, I've already said I don't know exactly what the fan did. So yes, to a degree my argument is more on the principle of all this. We likely won't know what the fan said, unless Noah says so, because all the focus is naturally on him as the athlete.[/QUOTE]

If there's a fan who sees it as an opportunity for their 15 minutes, they'll sell out the other fan in a heartbeat. Hasn't happened so far. Guess we'll see.

[QUOTE=Dragonyeuw]Don't see where I danced around your points, but whatever works for you. How about this: [B]why doesn't the camera people NOT chose to zoom in on an argument?[/B]

Anyways, I've said all I have to say.[/QUOTE]

Ok...