Chris Mullin vs Larry Bird $100 bucks a shot

[QUOTE=catch24]Yeah, I hear you. Much of that is why 'Scottie33Pippen' of Youtube (hitman2k) is around posting mixes and videos of Pipp.

Want my honest opinion? They had no business making the semifials, much less taking the Knicks of all teams to 7 games. That in-itself was an accomplishment. No Bulls fan by any means, but you gotta give credit where its due, and Pippen (who while I still think pulled a b*tch move when his team needed him most), did a stellar job being the glue that held that team together. Dude definitely held his own without Mike.
[B]I agree that 1.8 seconds really hurt his overall status. I think it killed his chances of winning the dpoy the next year. [/B]

Seeing that you're a big fan of his, what season do you consider his best?[/QUOTE]
1995. Easily. He had that team above 500 on pace to win about 44-45 games with a starting lineup of armstrong, myers, himself, either dickie simpkins, corie blount, larry krystawaik, and toni kukoc playing out of position, and luc longley.

That team was number 2 in team defense, and that was SOLELY due to him. He lead the league in defensive rating, he lead the league in steals. Avg a block a game and lead the bulls in every major category. Something that only been done 2 other times. He was also all nba 1st team defense.

Just understand that I in no way shape or form think pippen is or should be ranked higher than magic or bird. No matter what happened in his career, he didn't achieve what they did on a personal level. I just don't think he had a legit chance. Its unfortuante for him, but that's sports.

As far as mullin/bird. Bird was obviously the better player overall. I just feel they're close as far as putting the ball in the basket.

Mullin from mid range, Bird from beyond the arc.

[QUOTE=97 bulls]1995. Easily. He had that team above 500 on pace to win about 44-45 games with a starting lineup of armstrong, myers, himself, either dickie simpkins, corie blount, larry krystawaik, and toni kukoc playing out of position, and luc longley.

That team was number 2 in team defense, and that was SOLELY due to him. He lead the league in defensive rating, he lead the league in steals. Avg a block a game and lead the bulls in every major category. Something that only been done 2 other times. He was also all nba 1st team defense.

Just understand that I in no way shape or form think pippen is or should be ranked higher than magic or bird. No matter what happened in his career, he didn't achieve what they did on a personal level. I just don't think he had a legit chance. Its unfortuante for him, but that's sports.

As far as mullin/bird. Bird was obviously the better player overall. I just feel they're close as far as putting the ball in the basket.[/QUOTE]

Agreed; good perspective of his season too.

I hear 100% what you're saying. I'm glad we had this discussion. Got to know a little more about you and your thoughts on the game. Somewhere in the middle of this debate I think I may of misunderstood what you were trying to say (that Mullin had a similar skillset to Bird). All good though.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KkJoMq_Z7A[/url] :pimp:

[QUOTE=97 bulls]You have no choice but to respect what pippen did in 91 vs the magic. And as you like to say, facts are facts, the bulls (with pippen) beat the lakers (with magic johnson). Thus when the two were on the court on the biggest stage playing each other, pippen came out on top. And convinceingly I might add[/QUOTE]
:facepalm Shut it dumbass up. Pippen got his ass beat by Magic in gm 3. Stop watching clips and watch the gms. MJ guarded him more. Your a dumb****. Magic is way better then Pippen.

[QUOTE=97 bulls]1995. Easily. He had that team above 500 on pace to win about 44-45 games with a starting lineup of armstrong, myers, himself, either dickie simpkins, corie blount, larry krystawaik, and toni kukoc playing out of position, and luc longley.

That team was number 2 in team defense, and that was SOLELY due to him. He lead the league in defensive rating, he lead the league in steals. Avg a block a game and lead the bulls in every major category. Something that only been done 2 other times. He was also all nba 1st team defense.

Just understand that I in no way shape or form think pippen is or should be ranked higher than magic or bird. No matter what happened in his career, he didn't achieve what they did on a personal level. I just don't think he had a legit chance. Its unfortuante for him, but that's sports.

As far as mullin/bird. Bird was obviously the better player overall. I just feel they're close as far as putting the ball in the basket.[/QUOTE]

Mullin was just as good of a shooter, I wouldn't claim otherwise. Bird was great shooter too obviously, but he was a pure scorer on another level. That's the primary difference to me. Bird didn't have explosive athleticism, but the man could get his shot against anybody and do it on a high volume if needed. Clearly, he played on some crazy talented teams and that's probably the reason he didn't put up several 30 ppg seasons. It wasn't anything for him to drop 40+, but he had so many more ways to impact the game outside of scoring and shooting, many of them already detailed by other posters. Still to this day, how many players are 24/10/6? And I usually couldn't careless about numbers when it comes to Bird.

As far as Scottie... amazing versatility, great passer, all-world perimeter defender. I don't see him being much more than he was as a scorer, but then again he had a massive load to carry during the one full year he was on his own. My opinion of Pippen is so high that if I were to put together an 8-man all time roster - not the Top 8 players - but an actual team, he'd be on it. And no, I don't know who all eight would be other than than Hakeem, Jordan.. and Larry Bird. Larry would probably be the 'worst' defender, and that's saying something considering he was an amazing team defender with absurd instincts.

[QUOTE=juju151111]:facepalm Shut it dumbass up. Pippen got his ass beat by Magic in gm 3. Stop watching clips and watch the gms. MJ guarded him more. Your a dumb****. Magic is way better then Pippen.[/QUOTE]
Bulls fan huh? I think you posted about three times. And they've all been to me, and they've all started with insults. What have I done to make you so mad?

[QUOTE=TAC602]Mullin was just as good of a shooter, I wouldn't claim otherwise. Bird was great shooter too obviously, but he was a pure scorer on another level. That's the primary difference to me. Bird didn't have explosive athleticism, but the man could get his shot against anybody and do it on a high volume if needed. Clearly, he played on some crazy talented teams and that's probably the reason he didn't put up several 30 ppg seasons. It wasn't anything for him to drop 40+, but he had so many more ways to impact the game outside of scoring and shooting, many of them already detailed by other posters. Still to this day, how many players are 24/10/6? And I usually couldn't careless about numbers when it comes to Bird.

As far as Scottie... amazing versatility, great passer, all-world perimeter defender. I don't see him being much more than he was as a scorer, but then again he had a massive load to carry during the one full year he was on his own. My opinion of Pippen is so high that if I were to put together an 8-man all time roster - not the Top 8 players - but an actual team, he'd be on it. And no, I don't know who all eight would be other than than Hakeem, Jordan.. and Larry Bird. Larry would probably be the 'worst' defender, and that's saying something considering he was an amazing team defender with absurd instincts.[/QUOTE]
I may be wrong, but you seemed to disagree with me in an earlier post. But now, I can't say I disagree with anything you stated. I think you even called me a dumbass. What's up?

Mullin is definitely a better shooter in my eyes.

[QUOTE=97 bulls]I may be wrong, but you seemed to disagree with me in an earlier post. But now, I can't say I disagree with anything you stated. I think you even called me a dumbass. What's up?[/QUOTE]

You got a lot more reasonable within your conversation with catch24 and I honestly hadn't seen you do anything like that in other threads. Always seemed like you were pushing against the grain purposely, but when you clarified your comments regarding Bird/Mullin, it came off a lot more intelligent so apologies for the insult.

That doesn't mean I'd agree with stuff like Pippen over Magic as an individual player, but I don't worship at the Jordan altar (although I recognize him as GOAT) so I'm not the type to diminish Scottie's contributions and value as a player.

[QUOTE=97 bulls]Bulls fan huh? I think you posted about three times. And they've all been to me, and they've all started with insults. What have I done to make you so mad?[/QUOTE]
It's not just this thread. It's the constant garbage you talk. None of your posts for the last few months make sense. You just come up crap with no facts the back it up. I watch the bulls gms and Pip was good, but he isn't a top 20 player. Just get over it man damn.

I'd take Bird but not just because of skill but how legendary his competitive drive prevented him from losing most of the time. Even in the story Mullin told, he said Bird came back to tie after Mullin took a big lead.

But I was a big fan of that Golden State team (I used to use them on NBA Live 95. I preferred Sprewell, Mullin and Hardaway to Run TMC) so I am aware of how great a shooter Mullin is. As a matter of fact, this video popped up earlier this year showing Mullin exhibiting how shooting prowess on the ESPN campus in Bristol

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-hf-Kr8QCY[/url]

[QUOTE=juju151111]:facepalm Shut it dumbass up. Pippen got his ass beat by Magic in gm 3. Stop watching clips and watch the gms. MJ guarded him more. Your a dumb****. Magic is way better then Pippen.[/QUOTE]

lol didn't know Pippen stans can be more delusional than Kobe stans

[QUOTE=juju151111]It's not just this thread. It's the constant garbage you talk. None of your posts for the last few months make sense. You just come up crap with no facts the back it up. I watch the bulls gms and Pip was good, but he isn't a top 20 player. Just get over it man damn.[/QUOTE]
Well now I have something to respond to.

I think what happens is, people come in on a conversation in the middle. I've never said or implied that pippen was a top 10 player. I respond to the posters that say he never led a team to a championship. Is this really a fair assesment? You can base that off of one season?

Was pippen really afforded the same type of team and multiple years to learn from his mistakes?

Pippen did a better job with the teams he had as the "man" than teams other all-time greats had that are comparable. The 95 bulls were on pace to win 44 games. Go back and look at that roster and compare it to another 44 or even your typical 50 win team that was led by an all-time great.

People say pippen wasn't a great scorer. I agree, but he was a good scorer. But his strength was his versitility and defense. Why does he have to conform to other players strengths? There was a stat that I heard while watching the 90 or 91 lakers/warriors playoff game on nbatv about magic and scoring a lot of points. He scored 40 or more points 4 times if I remember correct during his playoff career. The lakers only won 1 of tthose four. Magic never won or dominated a game using his defense. Or scoring a lot of points. But he did dominate a game by controlling tempo and dishing out assists. Pippen didn't really dominate by scoring a lot of points. He did dominate by strangleing the head of an offense by playing suffocating defense on the pg. And filling a stat sheet. Why his way of winning is any less effective than any others all-time greats? Cuz jordan was the best player on the team? Without pippen they don't win.

As far as his alltime ranking, I feel he's in the 20 to 25 range based on his accomplishments. Basketball-reference has a daily running pole ranking every nba player and hes routinely in the 18 to 23 range. In fact, he's at 21 right now.

I don't think anything I said about scottie pippen is wrong or trollish. I think you just disagree. Now you obviously have your reasons. I think its mainly cuz you want jordan to have exclusive credit for every championship the bulls won as if he led a bunch of scrubs to the promise land. The fact is he didn't, he had 7 years to do that and failed miserably. And understand I'm as big a jordan fan as anybody. But I give credit to all the bulls for those championships. Not just jordan.

[QUOTE=97 bulls]Well now I have something to respond to.

I think what happens is, people come in on a conversation in the middle. I've never said or implied that pippen was a top 10 player. I respond to the posters that say he never led a team to a championship. Is this really a fair assesment? You can base that off of one season?

Was pippen really afforded the same type of team and multiple years to learn from his mistakes?

Pippen did a better job with the teams he had as the "man" than teams other all-time greats had that are comparable. The 95 bulls were on pace to win 44 games. Go back and look at that roster and compare it to another 44 or even your typical 50 win team that was led by an all-time great.

People say pippen wasn't a great scorer. I agree, but he was a good scorer. But his strength was his versitility and defense. Why does he have to conform to other players strengths? There was a stat that I heard while watching the 90 or 91 lakers/warriors playoff game on nbatv about magic and scoring a lot of points. He scored 40 or more points 4 times if I remember correct during his playoff career. The lakers only won 1 of tthose four. Magic never won or dominated a game using his defense. Or scoring a lot of points. But he did dominate a game by controlling tempo and dishing out assists. Pippen didn't really dominate by scoring a lot of points. He did dominate by strangleing the head of an offense by playing suffocating defense on the pg. And filling a stat sheet. Why his way of winning is any less effective than any others all-time greats? Cuz jordan was the best player on the team? Without pippen they don't win.

[B]As far as his alltime ranking, I feel he's in the 20 to 25 range based on his accomplishments. Basketball-reference has a daily running pole ranking every nba player and hes routinely in the 18 to 23 range. In fact, he's at 21 right now.[/B]

I don't think anything I said about scottie pippen is wrong or trollish. I think you just disagree. Now you obviously have your reasons. I think its mainly cuz you want jordan to have exclusive credit for every championship the bulls won as if he led a bunch of scrubs to the promise land. The fact is he didn't, he had 7 years to do that and failed miserably. And understand I'm as big a jordan fan as anybody. But I give credit to all the bulls for those championships. Not just jordan.[/QUOTE]

I do think Pippen is worthy of the Top 20-25, but that list cracks me up sometimes. A couple weeks ago, Kobe Bryant was ranked #289. He's managed to climb into the Top 35 based on fan ratings.

Pippen is a complimentary player who quit on his team when they needed him in the playoffs. How does that compare to Magic Johnson? If you want to bring up the 1991 finals, Jordan and Pippen were racking up fouls when they tried to guard Magic. The reason the Bulls won was that they had the younger, healthier team and Jordan played out of his mind. Also 2 of our 5 starters (Scott and Worthy) were playing with bad wheels. Worthy was able to pull himself together enough to score early in the servies but he was not anywhere near his best. The injury hampered every aspect of his game and eventually he had to sit out.