kobe>bird

[QUOTE=catch24]I disagree somewhat. Kobe was a great defender during his peak/prime, but what about the last few years (where he's been making unjustified all-defensive teams over Wade), where people like to credit him for playing longer than Bird? At what point do people actually start breaking down and gauging individual play? Kobe should be applauded by playing longer despite playing like a shell of former self? During his prime, Bird was easily better than Kobe on the offensive end due to his play-making, and simultaneously played good-to-great defense (evident by his steals/blocks/all-defensive-teams; difference is they were justified). So I'm not sure what you meant by Bird not doing it in the manner Kobe could?[/QUOTE]

I'm talking on an island and you have Jordan, Nique, or Bernard King with the ball, who do u want guarding them. Kobe or Bird? Easily Kobe. I'm not talking about the last couple of years for Kobe. I'm talking at his best. That would be like me pointing out Bird laying on his stomach and looking worse than Kobe EVER has. And I wouldn't say Kobe is a shell of his former self. He hasn't fallen off HARD like ya boy Bird yet. As a matter of fact, Kobe is gonna come back better than many people think. Watch and see!

Kobe at his best was a great all around player as well. Kobe has put up 6 assists seasons before. But I can dig Bird with the passing and rebounding edge though. But on a GOAT list, Kobe has the accomplishments to pass Bird by, if he hasn't already. I don't know why this is such a bitter pill to swallow for many. But as far as a player, if one says Bird over Kobe then no argument. Even though I disagree.

[QUOTE=RRR3]I disagree. Kobe always struck me as a guy who got the most out of his ability (though he had a shitload of natural talent to be sure). T-Mac not so much, he kind of seemed to get by on his talent alone.[/QUOTE]

I see what u are saying and agree with u! It did seem that Mac did get by huge on talent. But might not have got the most outta it. It seemed like Mac had a killer instinct and wanted to be the best player at the time. But Kobe was like a mass murderer instinct and wanted to be the best ever! Great point!

[QUOTE=bizil]I'm talking on an island and you have Jordan, Nique, or Bernard King with the ball, who do u want guarding them. Kobe or Bird? Easily Kobe. I'm not talking about the last couple of years for Kobe.[/quote]

I want Kobe defending. On the flip side of that coin, who would you want finding a teammate and/or scoring the GW basket, Kobe or Bird?

17ppg with piss-poor defense vs. Dallas says otherwise. Now, I'm not saying Kobe won't come back next season and tear shit up (I hope he does), but facts are facts.

[quote]I don't know why this is such a bitter pill to swallow for many.[/quote]

Because it's totally unjustified. Bird was an all-around better player and postseason performer with SLIGHTLY less accomplishments (given the context, i.e., who he did it against and what ERA he did it in).

I just don't see it. In a couple years? Possibly; really just depends what Kobe does from here on out.

[QUOTE=catch24]I never claimed Kobe was "raping" anyone, much less in the Finals.

We were talking about Kobe 'shutting down' players (like Iverson), [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyLg15UIRLY"]and he did[/URL][/QUOTE]

Iverson wasn't good example about shutting down since they tried tyron lue on him after 1st half at biggest stage in NBA.

Anyway, Afro Kobe was a good defender..He had athletism,focus and will.I just dont put him in best "shut down defenders" list.

Also while defensive edge is on Kobe, i don't find it can fill the gaps between him and Bird when you consider other aspects of game.

Bird was much better rebounder,passer,shooter..better court vision, IQ.Also better individual stats & awards.

Better athletism and defense at Kobe's side.

give me bird by an inch.

hes a much better rebounder, regardless of pace (bird: 14.5 TRB% > kobe:8.2TRB%)

hes a more efficeint scorer, and he can play with great players, he has the versatility on the court and the mentality to co-exist with great players. this is something kobe doesnt have.

kobe's a better defender and iso scorer, but that doesnt close the gap enough for it to be a contest for me.

[QUOTE=chips93]give me bird by an inch.

hes a much better rebounder, regardless of pace (bird: 14.5 TRB% > kobe:8.2TRB%)

[B]hes a more efficeint scorer, and he can play with great players, he has the versatility on the court and the mentality to co-exist with great players. this is something kobe doesnt have.[/B]

kobe's a better defender and iso scorer, but that doesnt close the gap enough for it to be a contest for me.[/QUOTE]

last time I checked winning 5 rings involve some pretty good teammates. Kobe has done it better than Bird.

[QUOTE=rodman91]Iverson wasn't good example about shutting down[/quote]

Of course it was. "Zaza" claimed he's never seen Kobe shut-down players like Iverson; he was wrong. Since when was the criteria in the playoffs/Finals or even multiple games? That's right, it wasn't.

Admit it; you posted a pic that had absolutely nothing to do with my link or post.

[QUOTE=RRR3]So you admit Kobe didn't win by himself? Good, you're learning.[/QUOTE]

you can't play 1 on 5. If Kobe had to, he probably can.

It's against NBA rules. I believe you have to have 5 on the floor and no bench.

[QUOTE=RRR3]:facepalm Against who? The Timberwolves? LOL[/QUOTE]

He did against the NBA Champions, Dallas Mavericks, years ago when he outscored the whole team.

At the pace he was going, he probably could have beat a NBA team.

[QUOTE=Joey Zaza]25.3ppg, 5.3rpg, 4.7apg on 45%
24.3ppg, 10rpg, 6.3apg on 50%
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=bizil]I'm just keeping it real and Kobe is the closest thing to MJ. MJ is better than Bird. And Kobe is close enough to MJ. So Kobe is better than Bird too.[/QUOTE]

That's some logic there.

[QUOTE=TheLogo][B]I [U]know[/U] you must be lonely[/B] and want to start debating to kill time but [B]any true basketball fan will tell you that Kobe is better than Bird[/B].
[/QUOTE]

Maybe you should let others speak for themselves.

[QUOTE=TheLogo][B]People [U]know[/U] Kobe is better than Bird.[/B][/QUOTE]

It's amazing what you [U]know[/U].

[QUOTE=bizil] [B]Kobe is close enough to MJ's level[/B] for me to pick Kobe over Bird. [/QUOTE]

Again, that's some logic there. Kobe is a pale imitation of MJ.

RS
MJ 30.1pts / 6.2 reb / 5.3 asst / 2.3 stl on 50% FG
Kobe 25.3 pts / 5.3 reb / 4.7 asst / 1.5 stl on 45% FG

Playoffs
MJ 33.4 pts / 6.4 reb / 5.7 asst on 49%FG
Kobe 25.4 pts / 5.1 reb / 4.8 asst on 45% FG

6 rings as the man > 2 rings as the man
5 MVPs > 1 MVP
6 FMVPs > 2 FMVPs
10 scoring champ > 2
1 DPOY > 0

Robert parish is a hof but no way is he a top 50 player. If we take the top 10 guys from each of the 5 positions, parish ain't getting in the centers club and Dj won't make it in the sg club.

Mchale was the only buddy bird had in the top 50 and he is 30ish at best.

Kobe played with a prime toP 5 center

Kareem played with the no 1 and no 2 PGs of all time.

The reason we rank bird so high because he did it without having team mates in the top 30.

[QUOTE=Big164]Robert parish is a hof but no way is he a top 50 player. If we take the top 10 guys from each of the 5 positions, parish ain't getting in the centers club and Dj won't make it in the sg club.

Mchale was the only buddy bird had in the top 50 and he is 30ish at best.

Kobe played with a prime toP 5 center

Kareem played with the no 1 and no 2 PGs of all time.

The reason we rank bird so high because he did it without having team mates in the top 30.[/QUOTE]

Is Pau Gasol a Top 50 player?

[B][U]Reasons why Bird is clearly BETTER than Kobe[/U][/B]

[B]Bird clearly more CLUTCH performer[/B] (PO clutchness, steal to win series etc etc) [B]& arguably the most clutch player ever to play the game.
[/B]
[B]Bird clearly more efficient scorer[/B] (Knew how to play off the ball brilliantly, positioning himself) scores lot more easily. takes 1/2 a second to get a proper shot off.

[B]Bird clearly has better intangibles, Bball IQ, Court Vision[/B] (makes team mates much better, presence on the court makes whole team better)

[B]Bird Much better Passer & playmaker & probably 2nd best ever after Magic Johnson.[/B] his passing so effortless

[B]Kobe clearly better defender than Bird[/B]

Bird is so much better than Kobe. Its not even close.

[B][SIZE="4"]Bird guaranteed Top 5 GOAT who transformed NBA forever.

Kobe guaranteed Top 15 GOAT with highest position at 12th.[/SIZE][/B]

Kobe just lacks the impact Bird had.

[QUOTE=gengiskhan][B][U]Reasons why Bird is clearly BETTER than Kobe[/U][/B]

[B]Bird clearly more CLUTCH performer[/B] (PO clutchness, steal to win series etc etc) [B]& arguably the most clutch player ever to play the game.
[/B]
[B]Bird clearly more efficient scorer[/B] (Knew how to play off the ball brilliantly, positioning himself) scores lot more easily. takes 1/2 a second to get a proper shot off.

[B]Bird clearly has better intangibles, Bball IQ, Court Vision[/B] (makes team mates much better, presence on the court makes whole team better)

[B]Bird Much better Passer & playmaker & probably 2nd best ever after Magic Johnson.[/B] his passing so effortless

[B]Kobe clearly better defender than Bird[/B]

Bird is so much better than Kobe. Its not even close.

[B][SIZE="4"]Bird guaranteed Top 5 GOAT who transformed NBA forever.

[COLOR="Red"]Kobe guaranteed Top 15 GOAT with highest position at 12th.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B]

Kobe just lacks the impact Bird had.[/QUOTE]

this might add 10 pages alone:D

Almost everyone who has a modicum of intellect agrees that Bird>Kobe, at least at this point of Kobe's career.