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[QUOTE=iamgine]That made me think. Regarding Dirk vs Chandler.
Did Chandler has simply less impact than Dirk or did he has different but equal impact?[/QUOTE]
Not even close. Dirk is probably 3 times more important than Chandler....maybe more.
That is my problem with discussions like this. A 10/10 player that plays pretty good defense is being glorified way too much.
Build a team around Chandler as your best player? You are lucky to make the playoffs.
[QUOTE=97 bulls]You know... I agree that barkley was more talented than pippen. It was barkleys mindset and bad work ethic as well as his approach to defense.[/QUOTE]
You aren't answering the question. This is what I don't understand about you. You make these claims and then when put to an actual basketball question you don't answer.
Who is the better player? Pippen or Barkley? And if you don't want to use Pippen...pick another great defensive player like Jones or Rodman....or anyone really you thinks fits the hypothetical of being able to defend 4 positions at an elite level.
[QUOTE=DMAVS41]You aren't answering the question. This is what I don't understand about you. You make these claims and then when put to an actual basketball question you don't answer.
Who is the better player? Pippen or Barkley? And if you don't want to use Pippen...pick another great defensive player like Jones or Rodman....or anyone really you thinks fits the hypothetical of being able to defend 4 positions at an elite level.[/QUOTE]
I think barkley is a more talented basketball player skillwise and even athleticly. But he's a malcontent, had a bad work ethic, didn't stay in the best of shape, and didn't take defense seriously. I wouldn't pick him over pippen to start my team knowing this. He's a bad leader.
The same goes for rodman. If he didn't have so many off the court issues, he'd be ranked higher. And I'm talking top 20. Id make the argument that he was the best player on that 90 piston championship team once he became the starter in the middle of the season. He avg about 17 rbds when he became starter and won the dpoy award and was clearly their best defender.
And again, players like bobby jones are specialiists. The bizarro version of a player like him would be a player like jason terry. He scores and that's it. He doesn't play much defense, he doesn't rebound and he doesn't do much passing.
[QUOTE=DMAVS41]Not even close. Dirk is probably 3 times more important than Chandler....maybe more.
That is my problem with discussions like this. A 10/10 player that plays pretty good defense is being glorified way too much.
Build a team around Chandler as your best player? You are lucky to make the playoffs.[/QUOTE]
Lol a player like chandler makes it easy for dirk to shoot 42% in a finals and win convincingly. And truth be told, it wasn't just chandler or nowitzki. That championship was a team effort. They don't win without marion or terry contributions either.
Basketball is a team sport. Trying to dismiss players roles and determine order of importance is and always has been silly.
When we say who would you build a team around, pick whoever, but you know to build a winner, your gonna need to add to key pieces. Just think about a pies with no filling and sugar.
What you really are asking, is on a bad team, who would put up the better stats? And the real answer to that is who gives a shit.
[QUOTE=knicksman]but that doesnt mean that hes more impactful than dirk.[/QUOTE]
And who cares? Without chandler, the mavs arent a championship team. They don't even get close to a championship. They're a middle of the pack team. How many middle of the pack teams do you remember?
[QUOTE=97 bulls]And who cares? Without chandler, the mavs arent a championship team. They don't even get close to a championship. They're a middle of the pack team. How many middle of the pack teams do you remember?[/QUOTE]
Without Dirk, the Mavs can not even make playoffs, especially in the West. Deal with it.
[QUOTE=Odinn]Without Dirk, the Mavs can not even make playoffs, especially in the West. Deal with it.[/QUOTE]
And like I said in a previous post you don't win without either. So who gives a shit?
[QUOTE=97 bulls]And who cares? Without chandler, the mavs arent a championship team. They don't even get close to a championship. They're a middle of the pack team. How many middle of the pack teams do you remember?[/QUOTE]
umm dirk could have won in 2006 if wade wasnt gifted 30+ fts. Was chandler present on that team? Did chandler won 50+ in charlotte or chicago?Did the mavs won when dirk was injured?they were 2-7. And LOL at middle of the pack when mavs was the no. 2 team last season.
[QUOTE=knicksman]umm dirk could have won in 2006 if wade wasnt gifted 30+ fts. Was chandler present on that team? Did chandler won 50+ in charlotte or chicago?Did the mavs won when dirk was injured?they were 2-7. And LOL at middle of the pack when mavs was the no. 2 team last season.[/QUOTE]
His mavericks could've but they didn't. I'm not sure having chandler on the team would've been the difference. But he sure would've helped.
[QUOTE=97 bulls]And like I said in a previous post you don't win without either. So who gives a shit?[/QUOTE]
There is a huge difference between missing the playoffs - playing WCF or WCSF.
[QUOTE=Odinn]There is a huge difference between missing the playoffs - playing WCF or WCSF.[/QUOTE]
I think even without dirk the mavs have enough talent to make the playoffs. Maybe even make the second round. They have a lot of depth
Kidd
Butler
Marion
Chandler
Haywood
Terry as the 6th man
Stevenson
Berrea
[QUOTE=97 bulls]I think even without dirk the mavs have enough talent to make the playoffs. Maybe even make the second round. They have a lot of depth
Kidd
Butler
Marion
Chandler
Haywood
Terry as the 6th man
Stevenson
Berrea[/QUOTE]
Butler wasn't there for most of the year? I think they MIGHT've been able to make the playoffs (would have to beat out the Rockets who were 43-39), but not any better then that. No way do they make the 2nd round.
[QUOTE=97 bulls]And like I said in a previous post you don't win without either. So who gives a shit?[/QUOTE]
lol of course. he made it in the playoffs the last 10 years without chandler.
whats your point?
dirks easily is the most important factor. they had like the worst record in the nba without him even with chandler.
jordan wouldn't have won without pippen yet he is way more important then him.
you also just look at the finals. the series he played the worst in the playoffs (even though he was clutch as ****).
everybody is always talking about the team effort which is just flatout stupid beacause every freaking championship team in the history of the nba won the title beacause of the team effort.
don't know why you're making it such a big deal when its about dirk.
the mavs wouldn't even come out of the first round against portland without dirk.
watch this video and than you maybe change your opinion.
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oENZ33_ZTkY[/url]
[QUOTE=guy]Butler wasn't there for most of the year? I think they MIGHT've been able to make the playoffs (would have to beat out the Rockets who were 43-39), but not any better then that. No way do they make the 2nd round.[/QUOTE]
Well that's different. Now youur talking about the mavs losing arguably their two best players. With a fully healthy mavs team, which includes butler, the mavs are probably a 65 win team.
But how many teams, championship teams, can loose their two best players and still be that competitive.
[QUOTE=97 bulls]Well that's different. Now youur talking about the mavs losing arguably their two best players. With a fully healthy mavs team, which includes butler, [B]the mavs are probably a 65 win team. [/B]
But how many teams, championship teams, can loose their two best players and still be that competitive.[/QUOTE]
Wrong again.
01-01-2011, Butler got hurt. Butler completed 28 games. In those 28 games, Mavs were 21-7. That means 61-62 win team.
Before Butler's injury, the Mavs completed 31 games, their record was 24-7. 63 win team.
Also, when Butler was healthy, nobody expected a 65W Mavs. Did you expect?