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[QUOTE=FourthTenor]
Hes not a leader, not a team player, and wouldnt be a winner if he werent spoiled by such a great franchise.
[/QUOTE]
Then why did he lead his team to 3 straight Finals appearances while winning two of them? Whether you like it or not, he was the best player on those teams.
The shit you're saying completely contradicts reality.
[QUOTE=FourthTenor]Lebron, Wade, Howard, CP3 have all led a team with insignificant supporting casts to at least one playoff victory by being great all aroun players.
Kobes ability to score taking lots of shots never did that. The three years he played without stacked teams resulted in first round punkings. Hes not a leader, not a team player, and wouldnt be a winner if he werent spoiled by such a great franchise.
All things equal i take bron, wade, howard, cp3 and obviously shaq and duncan ahead of kobe in their primes.[/QUOTE]
What?:oldlol:
CP3 has been out of the first round ONCE. And he had Tyson Chandler, Peja, and a 20/10 David West. Is that comparable to Kwame, Luke Walton, and Smush Parker?
Howard again has had one long playoff run in his career.. and he had a lot of guys step up that year that were better than Kobe's 06 teammates[not to mention he plays in the East].
Wade never got out of the first round w/o a 20+/10+ Shaq on his team when he was the main option.. his teams won 12 games one year, got bounced by the C's in the 1st round, and got bounced by the Hawks in the first round.
Lebron.. he's been on Kobe's level.. obviously. Great at dragging shittier teams even if his competition was much lower playing in the East.
It's one thing to be objective, but it's another to just say stupid shit. Kobe has been a selfish player his whole career.. but he's been one of the best basketball players to ever play. His talent overcame his ego when you look at it from a big picture standpoint. If Kobe were to have played with a perfect mindset and scored playmaked with perfect balance he would have challenged MJ for the GOAT title. But he didn't so he's only top 10-15 ALL TIME. That's still legendary so your stance just makes you look like an idiot.
[QUOTE=RazorBaLade]it doesnt have to be 28 or 11.. but if its 28 its a problem, its 11 its a problem. the only way its not a problem is if he passes to them when they would have made the shot, and takes the shot and makes it when if he had passed and they would have missed. thats the only way for him to play a good game lol.
for others its easier because people dont care about them as much. bron and kobe get raped by this , dirk and kg for example dont because no one is comparing them to memories of how you felt about MJ when you were a 15 yr old boy.[/QUOTE]
has nothing to do with mj. dirk doesn't get hammered like this because he doesn't do this shit very often.
see. i'm sorry, but you just sound like kobe and his legion of brainwashed fans. you think everyone has an agenda against him and just makes shit up. not the case.
if dirk jacked up 28 shots and had two of his teammates with great matchups rolling, i'd hammer him for it and wouldn't come up with bs excuses about how it was a gamble either way
that is the difference. you've been watching this shit go on for 16 years now that you've had to rationalize it completely....you've lost touch with basketball reality
Wade won a playoffs as a rookie playin with guess who? Lamar Odom, the guy u conveniently dont mention in Kobes cast. Vujacic didnt get nicknamed the machine bc laker fans always thought he sucked like they pretend to have now. Luke Walton was a decent role player before the injuries. Thats why he got that contract, bc he played pretty well. Good glue guy that facilitated.
Notice all those other guys DID win a playoff series with forgettable casts and u got an excuse why all them were lucky, and kobe didnt and u got one why he wasnt.
Hes TMac playin for a team that had GM Jerry West and deep pockets. The illusion hes some legend and all time great all around player is a facade cuz of those rings. His playoff stats arent even impressive, especially the finals.
Hes big time overrated. True facts.
[QUOTE=RazorBaLade]this is definitely not in agreement with what ive read on these forums[/QUOTE]
it depends on whose posting doesn't it? I would say you'd be hard pressed to find any reasonably posters right now faulting Kobe for taking 27 shots a game back in those days.
[QUOTE=FourthTenor]Wade won a playoffs as a rookie playin with guess who? Lamar Odom, the guy u conveniently dont mention in Kobes cast. Vujacic didnt get nicknamed the machine bc laker fans always thought he sucked like they pretend to have now. Luke Walton was a decent role player before the injuries. Thats why he got that contract, bc he played pretty well. Good glue guy that facilitated.
Notice all those other guys DID win a playoff series with forgettable casts and u got an excuse why all them were lucky, and kobe didnt and u got one why he wasnt.
Hes TMac playin for a team that had GM Jerry West and deep pockets. The illusion hes some legend and all time great all around player is a facade cuz of those rings. His playoff stats arent even impressive, especially the finals.
Hes big time overrated. True facts.[/QUOTE]
You sound just like 32Dayz^ saying Smush Parker was a great player:oldlol:
Stop embarrassing yourself:facepalm
[QUOTE=DMAVS41]has nothing to do with mj. dirk doesn't get hammered like this because he doesn't do this shit very often.
see. i'm sorry, but you just sound like kobe and his legion of brainwashed fans. you think everyone has an agenda against him and just makes shit up. not the case.
if dirk jacked up 28 shots and had two of his teammates with great matchups rolling, i'd hammer him for it and wouldn't come up with bs excuses about how it was a gamble either way
that is the difference. you've been watching this shit go on for 16 years now that you've had to rationalize it completely....you've lost touch with basketball reality[/QUOTE]
im not going to argue... we disagree so whats the point? i think your entire argument hinges on hindsight and is worth nothing in the middle of a game.
im just going to wait until gasol or bynum playing well is asked to win us a game, and they mess up and blow it and will come on here and await your response. that will be the only thing that tells me if u actually are making sense or youre just talking cuz u know the result of kobe continuing to shoot that game.
[QUOTE=shadow]it depends on whose posting doesn't it? I would say you'd be hard pressed to find any reasonably posters right now faulting Kobe for taking 27 shots a game back in those days.[/QUOTE]
Would depend on the game or situation but even back the. The Lakefs were always STATISTICALLY more successful in the W column when Kobe shot less than 20 per game.
Dude face it. He really cares more about shooting and being the star/hero than what the teams plan to win is. Hes lucky the Lakers offset that with great supporting casts most years, but when they dont he takes them nowhere then demands a trade to the bulls.
[QUOTE=FourthTenor]Wade won a playoffs as a rookie playin with guess who? Lamar Odom, the guy u conveniently dont mention in Kobes cast. Vujacic didnt get nicknamed the machine bc laker fans always thought he sucked like they pretend to have now. Luke Walton was a decent role player before the injuries. Thats why he got that contract, bc he played pretty well. Good glue guy that facilitated.
.[/QUOTE]
And Wade wasn't even the best player on that team.. he averaged like 15/6 that year.:oldlol: What a terrible example. No mention of the three years his teams were first round fodder to teams like the Hawks?
Sasha Vujajic played for the Nets all last year and I watched at least 50 Nets games[went to 5]. He is complete ass. Terrible player. Dude shot sub 40% in nearly every game.
Luke Walton? Luke Walton?:oldlol:
Please dude. You're a moron. The 06 and 07 Lakers minus Kobe would have been the worst teams in the league sub 20 win clubs.
[QUOTE=FourthTenor]Would depend on the game or situation but even back the. The Lakefs were always STATISTICALLY more successful in the W column when Kobe shot less than 20 per game. [/QUOTE]
This is the most moronic stat that ESPN has come up with in recent memory. They use if for all superstars too, not just Kobe.
The reason that a superstar player is taking less shots almost always correlates with his teammates having above average games. When the teammates are lackluster the superstar is forced to earn his overblown paycheck.
OP is making a big deal out of nothing... Why WOULDN'T he take good shots? :oldlol:
[QUOTE=YAWN]This is the most moronic stat that ESPN has come up with in recent memory. They use if for all superstars too, not just Kobe.
The reason that a superstar player is taking less shots almost always correlates with his teammates having above average games. When the teammates are lackluster the superstar is forced to earn his overblown paycheck.[/QUOTE]
Yup..stupider than the winning football teams have more rushing yards stat.. no shit, teams run the ball more when they have a lead.
[QUOTE=tpols]And Wade wasn't even the best player on that team.. he averaged like 15/6 that year.:oldlol: What a terrible example. No mention of the three years his teams were first round fodder to teams like the Hawks?
Sasha Vujajic played for the Nets all last year and I watched at least 50 Nets games[went to 5]. He is complete ass. Terrible player. Dude shot sub 40% in nearly every game.
Luke Walton? Luke Walton?:oldlol:
Please dude. You're a moron. The 06 and 07 Lakers minus Kobe would have been the worst teams in the league sub 20 win clubs.[/QUOTE]
Excuse excuse excuse. Three years and no "winning" (thought he was such a winner?) until Fisher, Ariza, Gasol show up and Bynum breaks out and theyve got the leagues best frontcourt. Then start winning playoffs while Kobe chucks, and u think its the actual chucking thats doing it.
A stan will be a stan.
[QUOTE=FourthTenor]Excuse excuse excuse. Three years and no "winning" (thought he was such a winner?) until Fisher, Ariza, Gasol show up and Bynum breaks out and theyve got the leagues best frontcourt. Then start winning playoffs while Kobe chucks, and u think its the actual chucking thats doing it.
A stan will be a stan.[/QUOTE]
Fourth Tenor = 32Dayz
[QUOTE=FourthTenor]Would depend on the game or situation but even back the. The Lakefs were always STATISTICALLY more successful in the W column when Kobe shot less than 20 per game.
Dude face it. He really cares more about shooting and being the star/hero than what the teams plan to win is. Hes lucky the Lakers offset that with great supporting casts most years, but when they dont he takes them nowhere then demands a trade to the bulls.[/QUOTE]
dont all superstars teams win more games when they shoot any sizable amount less?