Anthropomorphic Measurement of NBA bigmen 60s/70s vs Modern NBA era

[QUOTE=Lebron23][img]http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1100470.1340349051!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/image.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/s1Tlm.jpg[/IMG]

DWIGHT HOWARD COULDNT PLAY TODAY DOE

[QUOTE=jlauber]I don't think there is ANY evidence that suggests that the "speed of the game is much faster right now." This past season the NBA averaged 96.3 ppg. In the 60's, it was between 112 to 119 ppg. And take a look at the footage of the NBA in the 80's, too (particularly Laker highlights.)[/QUOTE]

i wasn't talking the pace of the game. i believe athlete's game speed has gotten so much faster. just look at the NFL. i love watching old school 60's packers or even mid 70's steelers football. the game speed has gained tremendously. It became so fast and violent that now they are turning the sports i love to a flag football. yes, the game speed beteen 80's and today are pretty much the same, but 50's and 60's? NBA was in an infant stage back then, and they just didn't have a big enough talent pool yet.

i think it's important that we shouldn't just handpick elite vs. elite. Wilt is a freak in any era for sure. Russell would no doubt be a DPOY in any era. but you gotta look at the entire league vs. entire league, and when you take a close look, the big noticeable difference isn't in players height, but in players game speed in more weight they carry. it's kinda like in NFL where the players height has been stabilized(except QBs), yet player's weight continues to grow.

[QUOTE=Colbertnation64][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/s1Tlm.jpg[/IMG]

DWIGHT HOWARD COULDNT PLAY TODAY DOE[/QUOTE]

bad angle shot is bad angle shot. go look at 2 pictures i posted in previous pages. Dwight clearly has couple of inches on bron. I don't believe Bron grew since he came into the league, but i believe dwight might have gained 1/2 inch, so he is probably upto 6ft 9 1/2. He is very close to 6ft 10 1/4 bosh in many pics i've seen with very good angles.

[QUOTE=jlauber]Green was running 10.08 100 meters in 1983. Walker ran a 9.2 100 yard dash in high school in 1979. Jackson was running world-class 60 meter times in the mid-80's. I have also mentioned it previously, but Green, at age 50, went out an ran a 4.43! Think about that...how many NFL players, TODAY, can run a legit 4.43? It is not very many. In any case, he was supposedly clocked at a 4.15 in his prime...and some 30 years ago.[/QUOTE]

Green is a freak no doubt. but 4.43 unofficial time and 4.43 at the combine are totally different. those players who runs disappointing 4.5 ish at the combine shows up in proday and shaves at least .05 to .1sec. virtually every top high school NFL prospect runs sub 4.4 hand timed. but 4 years later, after they become bigger and faster somehow runs disappointing 40 dash.

and no way 50 year old green runs legit 4.43. ianything under 4.45 is considered very good. only 5 CB prospect in this year's NFL combine ran 4.45 or below.

i have easier time believing Hayes would run 9.6 if he lived in this generation.

since 1999, there were 14 official 4.3 or below. and 2 fastest college 100m track star jacoby ford and trindon holiday ran 4.28 & 4.29. i believe their record for 100m is 10.01.

[QUOTE=Linspired]Green is a freak no doubt. but 4.43 unofficial time and 4.43 at the combine are totally different. those players who runs disappointing 4.5 ish at the combine shows up in proday and shaves at least .05 to .1sec. virtually every top high school NFL prospect runs sub 4.4 hand timed. but 4 years later, after they become bigger and faster somehow runs disappointing 40 dash.

and no way 50 year old green runs legit 4.43. ianything under 4.45 is considered very good. only 5 CB prospect in this year's NFL combine ran 4.45 or below.

i have easier time believing Hayes would run 9.6 if he lived in this generation.

since 1999, there were 14 official 4.3 or below. and 2 fastest college 100m track star jacoby ford and trindon holiday ran 4.28 & 4.29. i believe their record for 100m is 10.01.[/QUOTE]

Green was something else. I recall a playoff game in which Eric Dickerson broke free around his 20 yard line, and was galloping to an easy TD. Keep in mind that Dickerson was a high school sprinter who ran a 9.4 100 yd dash. Green was near the sideline, and actually had to turn around before he saw Dickerson speeding toward the goal line. I have never seen any player make up so much real estate, so rapidly, as Green did on that play. He caught Dickerson just short of the goal line.

He also won "the NFL Fastest Man" competition several times, even later in his career. I seem to recall him running a 4.35 at nearly age 40.

As for Hayes...another under-rated NFL player, who only recently was finally voted into the HOF. How explosive was he? He AVERAGED 42 yards per play on his 76 career TDs.

Based on all the data available from that time I have a ridiculously hard time buying into the agenda that 60s players were short, unathletic, or lacking in any physical attributes and gifts such as the long wingspans or stellar vertical leaping abilities of players that play today or from any other recent decade...

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4seN0mugh1k[/url]

Where's the difference in athleticism? Players today look athletically identical - collectively speaking the league doesn't appear to be jumping up for dunks any higher today than the guys in the video, I see absolutely no athleticism differences to speak of. From what I can see on paper via research (of [I]actual[/I] player measurements) plus what can be found watching film is that physically/athletically - players today seem to differ only in one measurable way. The amount of mass they feel the need to put on in the gym and that's based on nothing but a players own personal preference it's not an athletic gift.

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]
Thurmond
[IMG]http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz259/HolyGrailSports/1970s-NateThurmond.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i40.tinypic.com/292xmra.jpg[/IMG]
[/QUOTE]

Probably has a veiny c[COLOR="Black"]ock[/COLOR] too.

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]Based on all the data available from that time I have a ridiculously hard time buying into the agenda that 60s players were [B]short[/B], unathletic, or lacking in any physical attributes and gifts such as the long wingspans or stellar vertical leaping abilities of players that play today or from any other recent decade...[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.apbr.org/apbr-faq.html[/url]

What is the yearly NBA average height and weight?

AVERAGE PLAYER HEIGHT AND WEIGHT
Season Height Weight
1949-50 - 6'4" 197 lbs.
1950-51 - 6'4" 198 lbs.
1951-52 - 6'4.5" 198 lbs.
1952-53 - 6'4.5" 200 lbs.
1953-54 - 6'5" 205 lbs.
1954-55 - 6'5" 203 lbs.
1955-56 - 6'5" 206 lbs.
1956-57 - 6'5" 207 lbs.
1957-58 - 6'5" 205 lbs.
1958-59 - 6'5" 208 lbs.
1959-60 - 6'5.5" 206 lbs.
1960-61 - 6'5.5" 207 lbs.
1961-62 - 6'5.5" 208 lbs.
1962-63 - 6'5.5" 208 lbs.
1963-64 - 6'6" 211 lbs.
1964-65 - 6'6" 213 lbs.
1965-66 - 6'6" 211 lbs.
1966-67 - 6'6" 210 lbs.
1967-68 - 6'6" 211 lbs.
1968-69 - 6'6" 214 lbs.
1969-70 - 6'6" 211 lbs.
1970-71 - 6'6" 210 lbs.
1971-72 - 6'6" 211 lbs.
1972-73 - 6'6" 211 lbs.
1973-74 - 6'6" 210 lbs.
1974-75 - 6'6" 208 lbs.
1975-76 - 6'6.5" 209 lbs.
1976-77 - 6'6.5" 208 lbs.
1977-78 - 6'6.5" 207 lbs.
1978-79 - 6'6.5" 206 lbs.
1979-80 - 6'6.5" 208 lbs.
1980-81 - 6'6.5" 209 lbs.
1981-82 - 6'6.5" 210 lbs.
1982-83 - 6'7" 211 lbs.
1983-84 - 6'7" 211 lbs.
1984-85 - 6'7" 212 lbs.
1985-86 - 6'7.5" 214 lbs.
1986-87 - 6'7.5" 215 lbs.
1987-88 - ??? ???
1988-89 - 6'7" 214 lbs.
1989-90 - 6'7" 214 lbs.
1990-91 - 6'7" 215 lbs.
1991-92 - 6'7" 216 lbs.
1992-93 - 6'7" 217 lbs.
1993-94 - ??? ???
1994-95 - ??? ???
1995-96 - 6'7" 223 lbs.
1996-97 - 6'7" 224 lbs.
1997-98 - 6'7" 223 lbs.
1998-99 - 6'7" 224 lbs.
1999-00 - 6'7.5" 225 lbs.
2000-01 - 6'7" 224 lbs.

If these numbers are accurate, height and weight aren't very different across eras. By the 60's, the difference was negligible, i'd say.

And players are getting smaller today.

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_league_average_height,_weight,_age_and_playing_experience[/url]

In 2006-07 the average was 6' 6.3" and 221.55 lbs.
In 2007-08 the average was 6' 6.98" and 221.00 lbs.

[QUOTE=Poetry][url]http://www.apbr.org/apbr-faq.html[/url]

What is the yearly NBA average height and weight?

AVERAGE PLAYER HEIGHT AND WEIGHT
Season Height Weight
1949-50 - 6'4" 197 lbs.
1950-51 - 6'4" 198 lbs.
1951-52 - 6'4.5" 198 lbs.
1952-53 - 6'4.5" 200 lbs.
1953-54 - 6'5" 205 lbs.
1954-55 - 6'5" 203 lbs.
1955-56 - 6'5" 206 lbs.
1956-57 - 6'5" 207 lbs.
1957-58 - 6'5" 205 lbs.
1958-59 - 6'5" 208 lbs.
1959-60 - 6'5.5" 206 lbs.
1960-61 - 6'5.5" 207 lbs.
1961-62 - 6'5.5" 208 lbs.
1962-63 - 6'5.5" 208 lbs.
1963-64 - 6'6" 211 lbs.
1964-65 - 6'6" 213 lbs.
1965-66 - 6'6" 211 lbs.
1966-67 - 6'6" 210 lbs.
1967-68 - 6'6" 211 lbs.
1968-69 - 6'6" 214 lbs.
1969-70 - 6'6" 211 lbs.
1970-71 - 6'6" 210 lbs.
1971-72 - 6'6" 211 lbs.
1972-73 - 6'6" 211 lbs.
1973-74 - 6'6" 210 lbs.
1974-75 - 6'6" 208 lbs.
1975-76 - 6'6.5" 209 lbs.
1976-77 - 6'6.5" 208 lbs.
1977-78 - 6'6.5" 207 lbs.
1978-79 - 6'6.5" 206 lbs.
1979-80 - 6'6.5" 208 lbs.
1980-81 - 6'6.5" 209 lbs.
1981-82 - 6'6.5" 210 lbs.
1982-83 - 6'7" 211 lbs.
1983-84 - 6'7" 211 lbs.
1984-85 - 6'7" 212 lbs.
1985-86 - 6'7.5" 214 lbs.
1986-87 - 6'7.5" 215 lbs.
1987-88 - ??? ???
1988-89 - 6'7" 214 lbs.
1989-90 - 6'7" 214 lbs.
1990-91 - 6'7" 215 lbs.
1991-92 - 6'7" 216 lbs.
1992-93 - 6'7" 217 lbs.
1993-94 - ??? ???
1994-95 - ??? ???
1995-96 - 6'7" 223 lbs.
1996-97 - 6'7" 224 lbs.
1997-98 - 6'7" 223 lbs.
1998-99 - 6'7" 224 lbs.
1999-00 - 6'7.5" 225 lbs.
2000-01 - 6'7" 224 lbs.

If these numbers are accurate, height and weight aren't very different across eras. By the 60's, the difference was negligible, i'd say.

And players are getting smaller today.

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_league_average_height,_weight,_age_and_playing_experience[/url]

In 2006-07 the average was 6' 6.3" and 221.55 lbs.
In 2007-08 the average was 6' 6.98" and 221.00 lbs.[/QUOTE]

Those numbers aren't accurate, as they are based entirely on listed data. And although actual player measurement data is more difficult to come by, it is the only way to get a real scope on the sizes of players from different decades. Based on the limited number of player measurements from the past vs the (nearly complete) amount of player measurements available in the draft these days, it looks that players of the past aren't any shorter than players today, nor do they have inadequate secondary measurements such as wingspans/hand size etc. The vintage measurements allude that players of the 60s typically did not exaggerate the crap out of their heights (in fact, they sometimes sold themselves short). Starting around the 1980's the differences in listed height vs barefoot height starts to become noticably exaggerated.

[QUOTE=jlauber]Green was something else. I recall a playoff game in which Eric Dickerson broke free around his 20 yard line, and was galloping to an easy TD. Keep in mind that Dickerson was a high school sprinter who ran a 9.4 100 yd dash. Green was near the sideline, and actually had to turn around before he saw Dickerson speeding toward the goal line. I have never seen any player make up so much real estate, so rapidly, as Green did on that play. He caught Dickerson just short of the goal line.

He also won "the NFL Fastest Man" competition several times, even later in his career. I seem to recall him running a 4.35 at nearly age 40.

As for Hayes...another under-rated NFL player, who only recently was finally voted into the HOF. How explosive was he? He AVERAGED 42 yards per play on his 76 career TDs.[/QUOTE]


again, any fast dudes in NFL can run 4.3's hand timed / unofficial. but not so many can do it on a combine. I believe Green was legit 4.25 guy, but running 4.43 at 50 is unofficial / non-combine time which really shouldn't be used as a fact. he really was fast though. i would say deion sanders & green were two fastest football player we've ever seen. and that includes all the track stars who played in the league. it is clear to me track speed and football speed are two very different thing. some trackstars don't run well with pads for sure.

[QUOTE=Linspired]yes, the game speed beteen 80's and today are pretty much the same, but 50's and 60's?[/QUOTE]

Does anyone have any idea if NBA games were recorded on film or video or filmed while live broadcasts were occurring?

I can never tell what frame rate the older games are running at.

today's listed weight is just too inconsistent. Carmelo Anthony is listed at 235lb. he just claimed that he lost 12lbs. is that mean he is now 223lb? hell no. Melo probably played at around 240-245lb last year. wade is listed at 220lb, but his target playing weight 2 years ago was 228lb. i think wade is around 225lb. bron once claimed he is 6ft 9 270lb. yet he is listed at 6ft 8 250lb. most likely bron is 6ft 7 1/2 ish and his playing weight is around 255lb.

typically players again 5-10lb after few seasons from their rookie years. some do lose weight dramatically too. corlis williamson for example.

[QUOTE=Myth]Probably has a veiny c[COLOR="Black"]ock[/COLOR] too.[/QUOTE]

those two pictures are somewhat exaggerated. nate thurmond was cut as hell, but he really wasn't that big.

[QUOTE=Linspired]today's listed weight is just too inconsistent. Carmelo Anthony is listed at 235lb. he just claimed that he lost 12lbs. is that mean he is now 223lb? hell no. Melo probably played at around 240-245lb last year. wade is listed at 220lb, but his target playing weight 2 years ago was 228lb. i think wade is around 225lb. bron once claimed he is 6ft 9 270lb. yet he is listed at 6ft 8 250lb. most likely bron is 6ft 7 1/2 ish and his playing weight is around 255lb.

typically players again 5-10lb after few seasons from their rookie years. some do lose weight dramatically too. corlis williamson for example.[/QUOTE]

Your actually right on the money. And I'd like to also mention that listed weight from ANY era is equally inconsistent for the exact same reasons you just mentioned for this era. Example?

Nate Thurmond penciled in at 225 actually weighed no less than 229lbs when he checked into his rookie season. And according to newspapers his weight gradually goes from this (229lbs) to 235lbs in the late 60's and 240lbs in the 1970's. The weights of players from both past an present is never the same throughout an entire career save for an odd exception or two. Generally articles are published about players past and present that allude to their weight fluctations throughout their career, I always take those into account. I've found that trying to use a listed number for either height or weight has become almost pointless when trying to gauge two players sizes because neither seems to be accurate 9 times out of 10. Draftexpress.com/measurements has helped figure out why certain players look taller than others, and how tall or short players truly are regardless of what list height they were given.

[QUOTE=Poetry][url]http://www.apbr.org/apbr-faq.html[/url]

What is the yearly NBA average height and weight?

AVERAGE PLAYER HEIGHT AND WEIGHT
Season Height Weight
1949-50 - 6'4" 197 lbs.
1950-51 - 6'4" 198 lbs.
1951-52 - 6'4.5" 198 lbs.
1952-53 - 6'4.5" 200 lbs.
1953-54 - 6'5" 205 lbs.
1954-55 - 6'5" 203 lbs.
1955-56 - 6'5" 206 lbs.
1956-57 - 6'5" 207 lbs.
1957-58 - 6'5" 205 lbs.
1958-59 - 6'5" 208 lbs.
1959-60 - 6'5.5" 206 lbs.
1960-61 - 6'5.5" 207 lbs.
1961-62 - 6'5.5" 208 lbs.
1962-63 - 6'5.5" 208 lbs.
1963-64 - 6'6" 211 lbs.
1964-65 - 6'6" 213 lbs.
1965-66 - 6'6" 211 lbs.
1966-67 - 6'6" 210 lbs.
1967-68 - 6'6" 211 lbs.
1968-69 - 6'6" 214 lbs.
1969-70 - 6'6" 211 lbs.
1970-71 - 6'6" 210 lbs.
1971-72 - 6'6" 211 lbs.
1972-73 - 6'6" 211 lbs.
1973-74 - 6'6" 210 lbs.
1974-75 - 6'6" 208 lbs.
1975-76 - 6'6.5" 209 lbs.
1976-77 - 6'6.5" 208 lbs.
1977-78 - 6'6.5" 207 lbs.
1978-79 - 6'6.5" 206 lbs.
1979-80 - 6'6.5" 208 lbs.
1980-81 - 6'6.5" 209 lbs.
1981-82 - 6'6.5" 210 lbs.
1982-83 - 6'7" 211 lbs.
1983-84 - 6'7" 211 lbs.
1984-85 - 6'7" 212 lbs.
1985-86 - 6'7.5" 214 lbs.
1986-87 - 6'7.5" 215 lbs.
1987-88 - ??? ???
1988-89 - 6'7" 214 lbs.
1989-90 - 6'7" 214 lbs.
1990-91 - 6'7" 215 lbs.
1991-92 - 6'7" 216 lbs.
1992-93 - 6'7" 217 lbs.
1993-94 - ??? ???
1994-95 - ??? ???
1995-96 - 6'7" 223 lbs.
1996-97 - 6'7" 224 lbs.
1997-98 - 6'7" 223 lbs.
1998-99 - 6'7" 224 lbs.
1999-00 - 6'7.5" 225 lbs.
2000-01 - 6'7" 224 lbs.

If these numbers are accurate, height and weight aren't very different across eras. By the 60's, the difference was negligible, i'd say.

And players are getting smaller today.

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_league_average_height,_weight,_age_and_playing_experience[/url]

In 2006-07 the average was 6' 6.3" and 221.55 lbs.
In 2007-08 the average was 6' 6.98" and 221.00 lbs.[/QUOTE]

3" difference in average height and 25lbs in average weight is considerable actually.