Name your top 10 SG's of all time

[QUOTE=Smook A.]So you'd rather fix the Harden part than the part where he put West at 2 and Wade at 4.

Ok :lol[/QUOTE]
Read my earlier posts. I've already said that West is higher than Wade right now.

jerry west is an all-time great but d.wade is CLEARLY the 3rd best SG of all time if we're not weighing accolades heavily

[QUOTE=Boston C's]I have ray at 8th and sam jones over him but in regards to moncrief ray and reggie are better because they lasted much longer...hell their careers are practically TWICE as long as his...their career averages are also better then moncriefs and their peaks are arguably better as well...don't get me wrong moncrief is awesome but his numbers aren't so significantly better (or at all compared to ray) and to top it off ray had 9 straight seasons of 20 plus ppg moncrief's prime did not last nearly as long dude had 5 good seasons and just fell off the face of the earth comparing ray to moncrief to me prime, peak, numbers, all around are just better

dumars is a different case I just look at rays peak and think its better and that his longevity is more impressive then dumars...their accolades are neck in neck ray with more all star games dumars with a slight edge in all nba teams (at least before his defensive accolades come to play) but rays prime and peak were just flat out better then dumars hell reggies was just as good if not better as well...throw in their longevity and to me I choose them...but again you have your opinion and its a respectable one but I just don't agree with it[/QUOTE]

[B]Better peak(s) than Moncrief? No, just stop it, you're probably only looking at PPG or something lol.
-Sid was top10 in MVP voting 5 times, finishing 4th once, again, he made 5 all-nba teams, and was 1st once, with Magic, Gervin, Jordan or Isiah in the league, he's 5x all-defensive including 4 1st and has 2 DPOY's as a guard (most), made like 3 all-star games as a starter too;
-Moncrief was a good overall shooter but ofc as far as shooting Ray and Reggie are clearly above, I'd also put them above as far as scoring but the gap there is not big AT ALL, Sid was better at ISO with a really quick 1st step and he was easily a better finisher than either of them, better in the post too and was more athletic. Talking about defense, Sidney is just head-and-shoulders above the other 2, no contest here, dude is arguably the greatest defensive guard ever, plus he was a better rebounder than Allen and gets the edge in playmaking/passing too (in 1982 even lead the team in points, rebounds and assists, being 3rd in FG% and 4th in FT%, 2nd in steals and 6th in blocks). Ray and Reggie two of the biggest shot-makers in the clutch but Moncrief was pretty clutch too and came to play hard every night;
-As the main-man Sir Sid led his team to 50+W 5 times, besting at 59, 57 and 55, almost always making the ECF, oh and playing in arguably the GOAT conference (not to belittle his teammates because he had some really good ones, and coach too)
-From 82 to 86, in his prime before injuries, Mon was putting up 21.0/5.8/4.7 on .592 TS% with elite defense, in 1983 putting up 22.5/5.8/3.9 on .602 TS% and winning DPOY; from 81 to 88, counting a year when he was not in his prime and 3 injured seasons even, he averaged 18.2/5.5/4.0 on .570 TS%, peaking at 23.0/4.3/5.0 on .697 TS% (!!) in 1985, during the course of 8 games, even injured at one point.. and the only SG who can claim to have outplayed MJ in a playoff series h2h, that year.
............
Check the 1st 2 posts and more, here: [url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=312018[/url]
Check these too: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ADAo3W4Hos[/url]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFV59cFZi-U[/url]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bm1EEsgoITE[/url]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8-N2z1tI0Y[/url]

I'm sorry, Ray and Reggie can't really **** with all of the above (speaking of primes/peaks), and again, like I've said, if it wasn't for longevity (due to injuries) we wouldn't even be discussing who's above, much.


You're underrating Dumars too.. Dude was a really good shooter and could really score, although those two go to Ray and Reggie, scoring is close though. Joey couldn't rebound much but he was clearly a better passer/playmaker than those other 2 (even Moncrief), defense is not even that close also. He also was 10th in MVP voting and 2nd all-nba with some terrific guards in the league (all-defensive 1st too). Now Joe's prime/peak is not really ****ing with Moncrief's but he's up there with Ray or Reggie (you can make arguments for all here), and he won 2 rings with 1 FMVP, that holds weight on this discussion.


[/B]

[QUOTE=SHAQisGOAT][B]Better peak(s) than Moncrief? No, just stop it, you're probably only looking at PPG or something lol.
-Sid was top10 in MVP voting 5 times, finishing 4th once, again, he made 5 all-nba teams, and was 1st once, with Magic, Gervin, Jordan or Isiah in the league, he's 5x all-defensive including 4 1st and has 2 DPOY's as a guard (most), made like 3 all-star games as a starter too;
-Moncrief was a good overall shooter but ofc as far as shooting Ray and Reggie are clearly above, I'd also put them above as far as scoring but the gap there is not big AT ALL, Sid was better at ISO with a really quick 1st step and he was easily a better finisher than either of them, better in the post too and was more athletic. Talking about defense, Sidney is just head-and-shoulders above the other 2, no contest here, dude is arguably the greatest defensive guard ever, plus he was a better rebounder than Allen and gets the edge in playmaking/passing too (in 1982 even lead the team in points, rebounds and assists, being 3rd in FG% and 4th in FT%, 2nd in steals and 6th in blocks). Ray and Reggie two of the biggest shot-makers in the clutch but Moncrief was pretty clutch too and came to play hard every night;
-As the main-man Sir Sid led his team to 50+W 5 times, besting at 59, 57 and 55, almost always making the ECF, oh and playing in arguably the GOAT conference (not to belittle his teammates because he had some really good ones, and coach too)
-From 82 to 86, in his prime before injuries, Mon was putting up 21.0/5.8/4.7 on .592 TS% with elite defense, in 1983 putting up 22.5/5.8/3.9 on .602 TS% and winning DPOY; from 81 to 88, counting a year when he was not in his prime and 3 injured seasons even, he averaged 18.2/5.5/4.0 on .570 TS%, peaking at 23.0/4.3/5.0 .697 TS% (!!) in 1985, during the course of 8 games, even injured at one point.. and the only SG who can claim to have outplayed MJ in a playoff series h2h, that year.
............
Check the 1st 2 posts and more, here: [url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=312018[/url]
Check these too: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ADAo3W4Hos[/url]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFV59cFZi-U[/url]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bm1EEsgoITE[/url]

I'm sorry, Ray and Reggie can't really **** with all of the above (speaking of primes/peaks), and again, like I've said, if it wasn't for longevity (due to injuries) we wouldn't even be discussing who's above, much.


You're underrating Dumars too.. Dude was a really good shooter and could really score, although those two go to Ray and Reggie, scoring is close though. Joey couldn't rebound much but he was clearly a better passer/playmaker than those other 2 (even Moncrief), defense is not even that close also. He also was 10th in MVP voting and 2nd all-nba with some terrific guards in the league (all-defensive 1st too). Now Joe's prime/peak is not really ****ing with Moncrief's but he's up there with Ray or Reggie (you can make arguments for all here), and he won 2 rings with 1 FMVP, that holds weight on this discussion.


[/B][/QUOTE]

I hear you on all accounts man...the only thing I disagree with you is about dumars peak...his peak is up there but I think both their peaks (especially rays) was better then dumars about moncrief you def dropped some knowledge with his team leadership and I totally overlooked his 2 defensive player of the yr awards...I'm gonna have to go check out some moncrief highlights and get back to you lol...I've seen enough of dumars though and hes probably at my 10th spot (that spot interchanges so much for me because of other talented 2 guards lol) but I definitely think ray ray is above dumars in all time rankings like I said it can be argued for sure I won't sit here and say its not debatable but your not swaying my mind with dumars over ray ray

Wade had to compete with the likes of Kobe, Nash, Paul for most of his career. Not to mention the likes of Iverson, McGrady, Ray Allen earlier in his career.

Who the hell was west's competition other than Robertson at the guard position? Sam jones? You do realize Hal Greer was making all nba 2nd team behind West?

And are people really arguing Iverson > Wade? Based on what? A MVP trophy? Wtf...

[QUOTE=Boston C's]I hear you on all accounts man...the only thing I disagree with you is about dumars peak...his peak is up there but I think both their peaks (especially rays) was better then dumars about moncrief you def dropped some knowledge with his team leadership and I totally overlooked his 2 defensive player of the yr awards...I'm gonna have to go check out some moncrief highlights and get back to you lol...I've seen enough of dumars though and hes probably at my 10th spot (that spot interchanges so much for me because of other talented 2 guards lol) but I definitely think ray ray is above dumars in all time rankings like I said it can be argued for sure I won't sit here and say its not debatable but your not swaying my mind with dumars over ray ray[/QUOTE]

[B]Yea man, Sid was just amazing, shame for injuries (and small market coverage).
Regarding Dumars, like I've said, it can be argued who has a better peak (between him and Allen/Miller) and as far as careers is also arguable but considering everything I gotta put Joey D above, not that it isn't really close though.[/B]

[QUOTE=SHAQisGOAT][B]Yea man, Sid was just amazing, shame for injuries (and small market coverage).
Regarding Dumars, like I've said, it can be argued who has a better peak (between him and Allen/Miller) and as far as careers is also arguable but considering everything I gotta put Joey D above, not that it isn't really close though.[/B][/QUOTE]

na I hear you man...not gonna be like most of these stans and shove my opinions down your throat glad you arent doin the same haha...nothing wrong with just a good discussion without ppl going awol on the keyboard :lol

[QUOTE=Boston C's]na I hear you man...not gonna be like most of these stans and shove my opinions down your throat glad you arent doin the same haha...nothing wrong with just a good discussion without ppl going awol on the keyboard :lol[/QUOTE]

:cheers:

[QUOTE=SHAQisGOAT]:cheers:[/QUOTE]

One thing I don't get that seems to be consistent on most ppls lists is the iceman...I know I'm probably in the minority but I consider him more of a small forward then a 2 guard

[QUOTE=Boston C's]One thing I don't get that seems to be consistent on most ppls lists is the iceman...I know I'm probably in the minority but I consider him more of a small forward then a 2 guard[/QUOTE]

[B]Well he spent most of his prime at the 2, and he was more of a SG on the court (didn't expand his range all that much and had a good post-game though, finished plenty at the rim also).. (I believe) Olberding was the SF at first, then during the later years of Gervin's prime they had Mike Mitchell at the 3, dude who could also put the ball in the basket at a high rate. You can see that George was also making all-nba at guard, not forward.
Oh and the Iceman had a great, and sometimes underrated, career.. One of the greatest scorers the game has ever seen with plenty of ways to do it (and always making it look easy), solid rebounder and not a bad passer also, good off-ball defender too. He was twice #2 in MVP voting, 3rd and 5th once too, 5 all-nba 1st, all-star a bunch of times, 5x scoring champ, 4 times top5 in PER, greatest SG in the league during many years, and he actually raised his game in the PS more than enough, leading his team deep various times, almost making the Finals once, with pretty good teammates here and there but nothing to really brag much about.

[/B]

Mj
Kobe
Wade
West
Cylde
Greer
AI
Mcgrady
Gervin
Sam Jones


:roll: @ray allen and manu reggie top ten

Anyone that has Manu in top 10 is high on hallucinogens.

[QUOTE=D.J.]Wade has only been to 4 Finals and of the 3 he did win, he was a sidekick in 2 of them. You don't get to conveniently punish a guy for playing in another era. You still have not successfully refuted the stats I posted that clearly put West over Wade. If Wade was so great, why does he have only 2 All-NBA 1st teams? Why has he never made an All-Defensive 1st team? Why has he never been so much as a runner up(never mind actually winning) for MVP?[/QUOTE]
fvck that second option shit.. Wade's been so crucial to this current 3 peat.. he steps up when needed and always produces in dire moments. If the Heat end up winning 3-4 chips he'll have a case against West.

[QUOTE=Ball So Harden]1. Michael Jordan
2. Jerry West
3. Kobe Bryant
4. Dwyane Wade
5. Clyde Drexler
6. Allen Iverson
7. Reggie Miller
8. George Gervin
9. Ray Allen
10. James Harden[/QUOTE]
:roll:

[QUOTE=Ball So Harden]1. Michael Jordan
2. Jerry West
3. Kobe Bryant
4. Dwyane Wade
5. Clyde Drexler
6. Allen Iverson
7. Reggie Miller
8. George Gervin
9. Ray Allen
[B][SIZE="7"]10. James Harden[/SIZE][/B][/QUOTE]


R.I.P to your credibility.