Scottie Pippen Hopes to Be Traded to Suns (1995)

[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock]They would be contenders but just one of several contenders, just like the Knicks and Pacers were for many years in the 90's. They would have good players at PF and SF (especially later when Kukoc arrived--and Kukoc would likely be starting over Ariza) along with the best player in the game. They probably would win a ring or two. What they wouldn't be, though, is the juggernaut they were with Pippen. The Bulls in 94' were contenders with Pippen as their best player. Imagine that team with Ariza, Odom, or Iggy at SF. :oldlol:

The insecurity of MJ stans vis-a-vis Pippen stems from the fact that MJ's "GOAT" resume comes from the great team success he had, success that absent Pippen the Bulls would not have had. MJ with 1, 2 or even 3 rings would not be the "clear GOAT" we know him as today. Look at Wilt. He was the most dominant player ever and few people have him as GOAT because he won "only" 2 rings. Take away team success and KAJ, Wilt have better cases than MJ. It is "6" and "6/6" (because losing in the ECF twice was a good thing :lol ) that is cited as the point of separation between MJ and KAJ and Wilt.[/QUOTE]
Pippen wasn't shit in 88 but a role player who came off the bench because he was a foul machine. Pippen then did shit in game 6 89 and 90 game 7.

[QUOTE=97 bulls]It was used to prove a point. I honestly dont feel the Bulls should've won in the 80s because as great as Jordan was.... his team wasnt. Just think about it. Jordan breaks his foot, and the Bulls are nowhere near .500. They were championship caliber. The 90s Bulls? Jordan abruptly retires? The Bulls flirt with 60 wins. It blows the whole "teammates arent that important" theory out the water doesnt it?[/QUOTE]

What is the point? There is no point that involves Orlando Woolridge in Jordan's rookie season. Whatever theory being discussed does not matter here. Orlando Woolridge and Michael Jordan's success/failures in the very short time they played together does not support or refute any scenario with Jordan playing in the late 80s/90s that is being discussed here.

[QUOTE=97 bulls]
The what stems from this mindset that he could be successful with any run of the mill SF or team. Jordan was considered a ball hog before he started winning. And the multiple MVPs and Championship runs dont come without sufficient support. This is what you refuse to come to grips with.
[/QUOTE]

What is sufficient support? Sufficient support doesn't mean its not REPLACEABLE support. The greatest players ever when you go by their skill set, intangibles, etc. tend to end up with the best teams. That's not a coincidence. Its cause they're easier to build around cause they're easier to win with.

[QUOTE=97 bulls]
Youre right. But that goes both ways.[/QUOTE]

How? And what way are you talking about?

Orlando Woolridge? :coleman:

That's the best ya'll got?

A crackhead that only played 2 seasons with MJ? 2 seasons and 2 different coaches?

MJ played 18 f*ckin games!!!

He's supposed to make Orlando into a HOF in that time span? man... ya'll expectations of GOAT are higher than ours.


Ariza was used as an example of a player that I farted outta my ass with similar Pippen traits. Athletic, great defender, could create, could run an offense if called for, long. So imagine if he came into the league in 87 like Pip and MJ worked with Ariza from day 1. Hell, he ended up being a decent player under Kobe imagine what MJ would've thought him? Kobe was lazy on defense but imagine he and MJ playing defense together? He showed he can play in the triangle system so...one never knows.

If Pip never ends up with the Bulls and plays with MJ he'd probably end up being a journeyman after his rookie season (7.9 ppg 3.8 Rbd 2.1 ast .463% fg .576%ft).

Ariza was never this:

[IMG]http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view1/1482685/oakley-smacks-pippen-o.gif[/IMG]

But like I said.... MJ probably needed somebody to be that willing to take a beating so they could be molded. Somebody that could be broken down, somebody that won't challenge and simply accept their [I]role[/I].

As a [I][B]sidekick[/B][/I].

[QUOTE=SamuraiSWISH]He was young, and had a shitty team? He still mustered crazy amount of victories as underdog with mere competent up and coming supporting casts in 1988, and 1989. Winning games, and series they had no business winning. So yea, GOAT was goating. Unless you truly believe as a Delaware based "Bulls fan" not from Cold City that MJ wasn't GOAT.

Roundball_Rock agenda gonna agenda. Stay on Pippen's mutated horse sized dong. Guy couldn't even close out a series with a super stacked Blazers squad. Always going to be beta.

"Trade me"

Soft AF as a leader ... locker room guy though.[/QUOTE]

This Fakkot SamuraiSWISH has lost his gone damn mind so far he thinks Mike was a better defender than Scottie....:biggums: :wtf: :roll: :roll: This bastard...will never stop trolling with his ****ing nonsense, retard, opinions.

[QUOTE=Smoke117]This Fakkot SamuraiSWISH has lost his gone damn mind so far [B]he thinks Mike was a better defender than Scottie[/B]....:biggums: :wtf: :roll: :roll: This bastard...will never stop trolling with his ****ing nonsense, retard, opinions.[/QUOTE]

So does the guy who coached them:

[B][INDENT]Who was the better defender? Pippen was one of the best and most gifted defenders of all time. But MJ was the better defender. Michael could shut down anyone in the world for a 3 minute span. The best he

[QUOTE=Smoke117]This Fakkot SamuraiSWISH has lost his gone damn mind so far he thinks Mike was a better defender than Scottie....:biggums: :wtf: :roll: :roll: This bastard...will never stop trolling with his ****ing nonsense, retard, opinions.[/QUOTE]

MJ would normally be the defensive stopper when Pip didn't get the job done.

i'll put it like this. when the bulls won their first ring in 91, it was [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yf1KPq0yi40"] pippen guarding magic[/URL] and creating hell for the lakers. it was pippen who directed the offense and defense (getting jordan in position on the wing). it was pippen who was the leader.

kerr has gone on record saying, pippen not only would get you the good shot, but knew when you weren't feeling it and would work the offense to get you a good look to get going. pippen was the more favored teammate and leader. truth.

Magic had an ok Finals in 91, the Bulls really didn't "stop" him, they just blew the doors off the rest of the Lakers. It was their year and they weren't going to be denied any longer.

The Pistons and Lakers just took the brunt of several years of frustration and waiting all finally coming out on them.

It was pretty sweet.

91 and 98 are the nicest titles IMO. 96 was good too.

[QUOTE=mehyaM24]i'll put it like this. when the bulls won their first ring in 91, it was [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yf1KPq0yi40"] pippen guarding magic[/URL] and creating hell for the lakers. it was pippen who directed the offense and defense (getting jordan in position on the wing). it was pippen who was the leader.

kerr has gone on record saying, pippen not only would get you the good shot, but knew when you weren't feeling it and would work the offense to get you a good look to get going. pippen was the more favored teammate and leader. truth.[/QUOTE]

:oldlol: Jordan has arguably the greatest Finals ever but it's Pippen who was the leader :oldlol:

If this happen, Suns would've won multiple titles in the late 90s before Kobe and his Lakers take over that era.. Barkley would never went to Rockets and would stay with the suns.. Pippen would carry his fat us to multiple championships and would not retire ringless.. I think Jordan would not return and would stuck with his 3 rings.. Then Pippen would retire as top 10 GOAT, Jordan still top 5 though while Kobe would be the undisputed GOAT and LeBron would not make the NBA..

Hahaha Jordan's game was flawless they can't point out a weakness so they use his sidekick as an argument. :oldlol: :lol :roll: :applause:

[QUOTE=Asukal]Hahaha Jordan's game was flawless they can't point out a weakness so they use his sidekick as an argument. :oldlol: :lol :roll: :applause:[/QUOTE]

It's the Fatal9 strategy- passive-aggressively attack the GOAT by making believe you're a fan of someone you're clearly not. He was a closet Kobe stan who used to make believe he was a Larry Bird fan (and a few other guys along the way). Roundball is the successor to that legacy. He's a hardcore LeBron stan masquerading as a Pippen fan.

But I guess now he's an Orlando Woolridge stan? :yaohappy:

[QUOTE] Jordan breaks his foot, and the Bulls are nowhere near .500. They were championship caliber. The 90s Bulls? Jordan abruptly retires? The Bulls flirt with 60 wins. It blows the whole "teammates arent that important" theory out the water doesnt it?
[/QUOTE]

Great points. Even with MJ they were sub-.500 in 85' and 87' and only 9-9 in 86'.

[QUOTE]The argument here is stupid anyway. If Pippen never existed, its not like the Bulls would've just been exactly what they were just without Pippen and possibly any SF replacement. The Bulls would've built the team differently, possibly tried to trade or sign another superstar[/QUOTE]

What superstars have the Bulls ever acquired via trade or free agency (Pippen was de facto drafted by the Bulls since Seattle made the pick on behalf of the Bulls per the deal with Krause)? The best players Chicago has gotten outside the draft, at least since 1985, are old Gasol, Ben Wallace, Boozer and Rodman.

The problems with getting a superstar are there are so few of them--and most teams will not trade them--and if they are willing to trade a superstar does not come for free. The 90's weren't like today where players often change teams. Shaq is the only superstar who changed teams via free agency during his prime in the 90's. So you would have to make a trade. In order to make a trade you need assets. The Barkley trade is instructive. Phoenix had to give up an all-star SG and 3 starters to get him. Who was Chicago going to trade to get a Robinson, Ewing or Malone? Horace Grant, John Paxson and Bill Cartwright? Yeah, maybe in a Nintendo game. That wouldn't happen in real life. If it were so easy Cleveland would have done it and retained LeBron originally. The only reason they can get Love now is they have a #1 pick to offer in exchange. The Bulls would have had only low or average picks and players like Grant and Armstrong as their best trade assets. There is a reason only one 90's team had two superstars for an extended period.

[QUOTE=guy]:oldlol: Jordan has arguably the greatest Finals ever but it's Pippen who was the leader :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

leader =/= best scorer

pippen stopped magic, the goat offensive player, from completely dominating the bulls- testament to his greatness.

i agree that if you take everything into account, the bulls' 91,96,98 titles are the most impressive. pippen took the bulls by the horn and spear-headed the run with his defense and playmaking.

[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock]Great points. Even with MJ they were sub-.500 in 85' and 87' and only 9-9 in 86'.



What superstars have the Bulls ever acquired via trade or free agency (Pippen was de facto drafted by the Bulls since Seattle made the pick on behalf of the Bulls per the deal with Krause)? The best players Chicago has gotten outside the draft, at least since 1985, are old Gasol, Ben Wallace, Boozer and Rodman.

The problems with getting a superstar are there are so few of them--and most teams will not trade them--and if they are willing to trade a superstar does not come for free. The 90's weren't like today where players often change teams. Shaq is the only superstar who changed teams via free agency during his prime in the 90's. So you would have to make a trade. In order to make a trade you need assets. The Barkley trade is instructive. Phoenix had to give up an all-star SG and 3 starters to get him. Who was Chicago going to trade to get a Robinson, Ewing or Malone? Horace Grant, John Paxson and Bill Cartwright? Yeah, maybe in a Nintendo game. That wouldn't happen in real life. If it were so easy Cleveland would have done it and retained LeBron originally. The only reason they can get Love now is they have a #1 pick to offer in exchange. The Bulls would have had only low or average picks and players like Grant and Armstrong as their best trade assets. There is a reason only one 90's team had two superstars for an extended period.[/QUOTE]

Well this is just one of the alternatives I mentioned that could've happened.

And Grant and Armstrong actually would've been great trade assets. Either way, you can't go back and decipher what would've possibly happened cause the dynamics are completely changed. They probably wouldn't have even close to the same roster just cause of the butterfly effect. Bulls might never trade Charles Oakley. If they would've kept the same pick they traded for Pippen, they may have picked someone like Reggie Miller or Mark Jackson instead who were both available. Or maybe they keep Olden Polynice and since they have that extra big man, they don't waste their 89 draft pick on Stacey King and take someone like Mookie Blaylock, Tim Hardaway, or Shawn Kemp. Maybe they make a huge push to sign David Robinson, who was actually a free agent by the time he started playing since it was so far after he was actually drafted.

So like I said, its kinda pointless to speculate. And I don't know what you call an "extended period" but Malone/Stockton, Payton/Kemp, Shaq/Penny, Drexler and/or Barkley/Hakeem, Hardaway/Zo, Hardaway/Mullin, were all together for at least 3 years in the 90s.