Jordans getting kicked out of the top 10.............................................

[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]basically yeah. kobe didnt give a shit... he went into jordan hog mode in 2006 for the first time in his life
[/QUOTE]

So did a 30 year old Iverson, a third year out of High School LeBron (compare what Kobe was doing at the same age), and a ton of other perimeter players?

Come on. You know like I know why these guys all of a sudden had breakout, career scoring years, some of them in their 30s, 10 years after they were drafted.

Living in denial about it doesn't change the facts.

[QUOTE]jordan sacrificed somewhat too. his average dipped a bit

but he was lucky to have a team built on defense[/QUOTE]

'Lucky' in that he won DPOY the same season he won a scoring title (and MVP, steals title)?

[QUOTE=kennethgriffin].....career scorers of all time

Jordans 32,292 won't hold up


kobes on pace to pass jordan this year

Dirk has 27k at 35 years old. he's gonna pass jordan at age 39 ( atleast 1500 points per season )

Lebron has 23k at 29 years old. he's gonna pass jordan at age 35 or 36 like kobe

durant has 15k at 25 years old. he's gonna pass jordan at age 34 or 35

and who knows whats ahead for a guy like steph curry. even melo has an outside chance if he hangs on till age 38 )

then what if wiggins takes off.

man i dont think jordan will be in the top 10 after a few generations pass

:oldlol:[/QUOTE]

:facepalm

He's #3 right now. Kobe will pass him. LeBron will pass him. Durant might if his career continues in this way.

Dirk? Melo? Curry? WIGGINS?! :biggums:

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents]Lol, except when Kobe does it apparently[/QUOTE]


i think he proved that though

i wouldnt say hes the best in 06 and 07 if it werent for what he did with a small amount of talent not more than a year or 2 later with a minimal supporting cast of misfits

give kobe butterknives.. he wont do much... give kobe a spork. he carves out a masterpiece


lebron needs duel folded steal katanas just to make a paper cut on the other hand

[QUOTE=dubeta]:oldlol:[/QUOTE]

you know 2008 was like 5 years before lebron even learned his first post move right?

dude was still doing footwork with 2 left feet aswell

i dont think theres a single educated person on the planet that will say lebron was a better player than kobe in 2008

that was when he was full out travel/charge monkey run away train bullying people over for every single point..


dude had very little skills and no polished game like kobe. forget the fact that kobe was in his absolute prime

:roll:

[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]basically yeah. kobe didnt give a shit... he went into jordan hog mode in 2006 for the first time in his life because he didnt have any team mates


when kobe has help he utilizes it fully. he knows how to win.

scoring titles have never been a sign of greatness. look at the kind of people whove won them more often than not throughout history...

2013-14 NBA Kevin Durant 32.01 OKC ( not the best player )
2012-13 NBA Carmelo Anthony 28.66 NYK ( not the best player )
2011-12 NBA Kevin Durant 28.03 OKC ( not the best player )
2010-11 NBA Kevin Durant 27.71 OKC ( not the best player )
2009-10 NBA Kevin Durant 30.15 OKC ( not the best player )
2008-09 NBA Dwyane Wade 30.20 MIA ( not the best player )
2007-08 NBA LeBron James 30.00 CLE ( not the best player )
2006-07 NBA Kobe Bryant 31.56 LAL
2005-06 NBA Kobe Bryant 35.40 LAL
2004-05 NBA Allen Iverson 30.69 PHI ( not the best player )
2003-04 NBA Tracy McGrady 28.03 ORL ( not the best player )
2002-03 NBA Tracy McGrady 32.09 ORL ( not the best player )
2001-02 NBA Allen Iverson 31.38 PHI ( not the best player )
2000-01 NBA Allen Iverson 31.08 PHI ( not the best player )
1999-00 NBA Shaquille O'Neal 29.67 LAL
1998-99 NBA Allen Iverson 26.75 PHI ( not the best player )
1997-98 NBA Michael Jordan* 28.74 CHI ( not the best player )
1996-97 NBA Michael Jordan* 29.65 CHI
1995-96 NBA Michael Jordan* 30.38 CHI
1994-95 NBA Shaquille O'Neal 29.30 ORL ( not the best player )
1993-94 NBA David Robinson* 29.79 SAS ( not the best player )
1992-93 NBA Michael Jordan* 32.58 CHI
1991-92 NBA Michael Jordan* 30.05 CHI
1990-91 NBA Michael Jordan* 31.46 CHI
1989-90 NBA Michael Jordan* 33.57 CHI ( not the best player )
1988-89 NBA Michael Jordan* 32.51 CHI ( not the best player )
1987-88 NBA Michael Jordan* 34.98 CHI ( not the best player )
1986-87 NBA Michael Jordan* 37.09 CHI ( not the best player )
1985-86 NBA Dominique Wilkins* 30.33 ATL ( not the best player )
1984-85 NBA Bernard King* 32.89 NYK ( not the best player )
1983-84 NBA Adrian Dantley* 30.61 UTA ( not the best player )
1982-83 NBA Alex English* 28.37 DEN ( not the best player )
1981-82 NBA George Gervin* 32.29 SAS ( not the best player )
1980-81 NBA Adrian Dantley* 30.65 UTA ( not the best player )
1979-80 NBA George Gervin* 33.14 SAS ( not the best player )
1978-79 NBA George Gervin* 29.56 SAS ( not the best player )
1977-78 NBA George Gervin* 27.22 SAS ( not the best player )
1976-77 NBA Pete Maravich* 31.14 NOJ ( not the best player )
1975-76 NBA Bob McAdoo* 31.12 BUF ( not the best player )
1974-75 NBA Bob McAdoo* 34.52 BUF ( not the best player )
1973-74 NBA Bob McAdoo* 30.55 BUF ( not the best player )
1972-73 NBA Tiny Archibald* 33.99 KCO ( not the best player )
1971-72 NBA Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 34.84 MIL
1970-71 NBA Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 31.66 MIL
1969-70 NBA Jerry West* 31.20 LAL ( not the best player )
1968-69 NBA Elvin Hayes* 28.38 SDR ( not the best player )
1967-68 NBA Oscar Robertson* 29.17 CIN ( not the best player )
1966-67 NBA Rick Barry* 35.58 SFW ( not the best player )
1965-66 NBA Wilt Chamberlain* 33.53 PHI
1964-65 NBA Wilt Chamberlain* 34.71 TOT
1963-64 NBA Wilt Chamberlain* 36.85 SFW
1962-63 NBA Wilt Chamberlain* 44.83 SFW
1961-62 NBA Wilt Chamberlain* 50.36 PHW
1960-61 NBA Wilt Chamberlain* 38.39 PHW
1959-60 NBA Wilt Chamberlain* 37.60 PHW
1958-59 NBA Bob Pettit* 29.24 STL
1957-58 NBA George Yardley* 27.79 DET ( not the best player )
1956-57 NBA Paul Arizin* 25.59 PHW ( not the best player )
1955-56 NBA Bob Pettit* 25.68 STL
1954-55 NBA Neil Johnston* 22.65 PHW ( not the best player )
1953-54 NBA Neil Johnston* 24.43 PHW ( not the best player )
1952-53 NBA Neil Johnston* 22.34 PHW ( not the best player )
1951-52 NBA Paul Arizin* 25.36 PHW ( not the best player )
1950-51 NBA George Mikan* 28.41 MNL
1949-50 NBA George Mikan* 27.43 MNL
1948-49 BAA George Mikan* 28.30 MNL
1947-48 BAA Joe Fulks* 22.07 PHW ( not the best player )
1946-47 BAA Joe Fulks* 23.15 PHW ( not the best player )



:confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]

WAIT... KOBE DIDNT CARE ABOUT WINNING? :roll: KENNETHGRIFFIN JUST SAID KOBE DIDNT CARE ABOUT WINNING? LOL My lord, Kobe arguably has the best work ethic out of anything in the league so with him not caring you're saying he's a quitter? 2006 was just flat out pathetic, how do you argue when you're UP 3-1 vs the suns and flat out losing 3 games in a row. Kobe is suppose to be the "next MJ" but he didn't care about winning?

when kobe had help how come he didn't do anything in 2011? He was the reigning back to back champion with give or take the same roster but got swept / beat down. THEY LOST BY 40! That was arguably more PATHETIC THAN LEBRONS 4TH QUARTER PERFORMANCE IN 2011. :lol :lol

Even with Kobe being hurt in 2012 after his achilles injury you still have to admit that team on paper was stacked as fcuk. He had Dwight Howard, Steve Nash, Pau Gasol and MWP but barely made the playoffs with a pathetic ratio above 500? You think they would of actually gotten close to beating SAS? :roll:

your list just proves MJ > Everyone in the league. Best scorer and also best player. Did it 5 times. Who else did that (certainly not kobe :oldlol:)

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]:oldlol:

What don't you people understand about the rule changes that favored perimeter scoring? If anything, everything you posted above just makes Jordan's accomplishments even more impressive. He was getting scoring titles as a SG in an era where the most dominant centers were playing without the rules favoring swingmen.

Kobe, Iverson, Ray Allen were all drafted in 1996... they didn't have their best scoring seasons until 2006, 10 seasons after they were drafted. That has never happened in NBA History. Where were Bean's 50 and 60 point explosions BEFORE the rule changes? Iverson at [I]5'11, 165 and at 30 years old[/I] all of a sudden puts up 33 PPG?

Come on, Son :oldlol:

Bean wasn't even the focal point of defenses for half his career and played the second half under optimal conditions for perimeter scorers... and he only has 2 scoring titles to show for it.

Now [I]that's[/I] what you call context.[/QUOTE]


my bad don

didn't mean to leave you hangin

thought i had the time but had to run


you say the rule changes benefitted perimeter players but that wasn't
the only change made , , , what about the defensive 3 second rule
and the allowance of zone defense . . who benefitted from that

certainly wasn't wing men

being allowed to double team players without the ball , , defending an
area and not a player . . . did this favor perimeter players as well

i didn't like all the whistles and play stoppage either but it did re-open
the game and brought back player and ball movement rather than
the dump it inside stand around offenses of the horrific 90s

the changes had to be made to offset the advantages gained
by the defense . . . . the game needed more fluidity

since you no longer had to guard your man you sure as hell shouldn't
be allowed to impede his progress - - with no changes you take
the game right back to the days of expansion offenses

you remember when 76-69 wasn't the halftime score

it was the final score . . . did you enjoy that

well , you probably did because you got to see jordan play iso-ball
against a bunch of players that couldn't match him physically
or athletically . . that's the reason most of his memorable
moments are against single coverage and names like

craig ehlo - john starks and bryon russell are brought to life


you couldn't double jordan off the ball - was that a wing benefit

what about the short 3 point line - who benefitted from that






dat context dadda

[QUOTE=aau]
you say the rule changes benefitted perimeter players but that wasn't
the only change made , , , what about the defensive 3 second rule
and the allowance of zone defense . . who benefitted from that

[B]certainly wasn't wing men[/B][/QUOTE]

It most certainly was. How is this even debatable? Just look at the scoring leaders from the mid 90s and then compare that to the scoring leaders in the mid 00s. Hell, just look at the difference between '04-'05 and '05-'06. Same pace, but perimeter scoring EXPLODED.

And why would opening up the lane every 2.9 seconds be an impediment for guys trying to score? :wtf:

Synergy Sports published a study for SI that showed that the average league wide for use of zone D was about 3% of team's possessions and players actually shot better against zone than against man D.

That only makes sense considering the fact that zone is used by amateur coaches to hide poor defenders. If you're an NBA player or coach and you don't know how to exploit an amateur defense that 7th graders employ, then you have no business being paid as a professional.

Just look at how easily Wade was getting to the basket in the '06 playoffs vs a top 5 Defense:

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDdlEFMIA5Y[/url]

This was the Pistons under Flip Saunders who was one of the few coaches in the league who played zone for more than a possession here or there. Compare that to how the Pistons played just 2 years earlier (before the rule changes of '05) under Larry Brown who never employed zone. Night and day.


[QUOTE]being allowed to double team players without the ball , , defending an
area and not a player . . . did this favor perimeter players as well[/QUOTE]

All of that was going on pre the rule changes. The reason they got rid of the illegal D rules in the first place was because they were impossible to enforce and refs didn't seem to have any idea what illegal was in the first place. Teams like the Jazz, Knicks, Pistons, Lakers, Sonics, and the Bulls were running zone Ds (without the handicap of the 3 sec lane rule) consistently throughout the 80s-90s.

[QUOTE]i didn't like all the whistles and play stoppage either but it did re-open
the game and brought back player and ball movement rather than
the dump it inside stand around offenses of the horrific 90s

the changes had to be made to offset the advantages gained
by the defense . . . . the game needed more fluidity

since you no longer had to guard your man you sure as hell shouldn't
be allowed to impede his progress - - with no changes you take
the game right back to the days of expansion offenses

you remember when 76-69 wasn't the halftime score

it was the final score . . . did you enjoy that

well , you probably did because you got to see jordan play iso-ball
against a bunch of players that couldn't match him physically
or athletically . . that's the reason most of his memorable
moments are against single coverage and names like

craig ehlo - john starks and bryon russell are brought to life[/QUOTE]

Didn't know the triangle was an 'iso' offense :oldlol:

[B][U]'95-'96[/U][/B]
League Pace: 91.8
League APG: 22.7 (Jazz league leader @ 26.1/gm)

[B][U]'05-'06[/U][/B]
League Pace: 90.5
League APG: 20.6 (Suns league leader @ 26.6/gm)

[B][U]'13-'14[/U][/B]
League Pace: 93.9
League APG: 22 (Spurs league leader @ 25.2/gm)

Your story doesn't check out.

[QUOTE]you couldn't double jordan off the ball - was that a wing benefit[/QUOTE]

[URL="http://youtu.be/bQ9dBEcI_hE?t=1m13s"]1:13-2:00ish[/URL]

[QUOTE]what about the short 3 point line - who benefitted from that[/QUOTE]

3 pt shooters obviously, for the relatively short time the change was in effect. Fun fact- the highest eFG%s league wide Historically are as follows:

1) 2013-2014 (.501%)
2) 2009-2010 (.500%)
3) 2008-2009 (.500%)
4) 1994-1995 (.500%) *3 pt line shortened*
5) 1995-1996 (.499%) *3 pt line shortened*
6) 2010-2011 (.498%)
7) 2007-2008 (.497%)
8) 2012-2013 (.496%)
9) 2006-2007 (.496%)
10) 1984-1985 (.496%)

[QUOTE]dat context dadda[/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://www.quickmeme.com/img/dc/dcfca269bc660747e6107ea7d1a3542a420733062f0e1adf227ddcc0690e7961.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]
basically yeah. kobe didnt give a shit... he went into jordan hog mode in 2006 for the first time in his life

1999-00 NBA Shaquill O'Neal 29.67
1990-91 NBA Michael Jordan* 31.46
1970-71 NBA Abdul-Jabbar* 31.66

:confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]



in the history of the game

3 players have led the league in scoring and won title same year

that doesn't render it a fluke , , , , , it's just not the norm

mike did it 6 times . . that makes his era of comp


the fluke

[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]you know 2008 was like 5 years before lebron even learned his first post move right?

dude was still doing footwork with 2 left feet aswell

i dont think theres a single educated person on the planet that will say lebron was a better player than kobe in 2008

that was when he was full out travel/charge monkey run away train bullying people over for every single point..


dude had very little skills and no polished game like kobe. forget the fact that kobe was in his absolute prime

:roll:[/QUOTE]

So lebron averaged 30 and won scoring title with no skill? :roll:


Averaged more points rebounds assists and shot shot a higher FG% than kobe


But kobe is more 'skilled' :oldlol:

.
[B][U]MJ's Competition in the East[/U][/B] (notice the championship-level experience of the opponents)


[B]1)[/B] MJ beat the 2-time defending champion Bad Boys.

[B]2)[/B] Ewing's Knicks made the Finals each time Jordan retired in 94' and 99' - they were championship-level teams that would have made 3 or 4 more Finals if they didn't have to go thru MJ during his 3-peats.

[B]3)[/B] MJ swept Shaq and Penny's Orlando team that had been to the Finals the previous year - [B][I]obviously, Shaq and Penny is a big step up from say, Roy Hibbert and Paul George[/I][/B].

[B]4)[/B] MJ beat a very deep Pacer team in 1998, led by all-stars Reggie Miller and Rik Smits - this same Pacer team made the Finals in 2000 against Shaq and Kobe's Lakers.

[B]5)[/B] MJ beat a 3 all-star Cleveland team with Mark Price, Larry Nance and Brad Daughtery (and Ron Harper at SG with All-defensive team Hot Rod Williams at the 4) - this team won 57 games and had the #2 ranked defense when MJ's Bulls upset them with "the shot" in 1989.

[B]6)[/B] MJ beat Pat Riley's 61-win Heat in the ECF in 5 games - those Heat had the #1 ranked defense and two all-stars in Alonzo Mourning and Tim Hardaway.


[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_takes_Penny_and_Shaq_baa7b35eab7fc31a6d97cf2a2da83028.gif[/IMG]


[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_dunks_on_Shaq_7a78ff0a205611c2aaf2fcf2af13f605.gif[/IMG]


[B][U]The Finals
[/U][/B]
Jordan's Finals opponents ran the gamut.

In the 1998 Western Conference Finals, the Utah Jazz swept Shaq's 4 all-star Lakers (Shaq, Eddie Jones, Van Exel, Kobe... with Elden Campbell, Robert Horry, Rick Rox, Derek Fisher)... and this was after a 5-game victory in the Semis over Popovich and Duncan/Robinson's 56-win Spurs team..

Similar to the 2011 Mavericks and the 2014 Spurs, the Jazz were a smart, fundamentally sound team with a GREAT offense - they were the kind of team that could embarrass and expose a super-athlete like Shaq or Lebron whose game is tremendously athletic but less adjustable or quick-reacting, and more exploitable.

The 1996 Sonics are criminally underrated.. They had a legit big 3 of Payton, Kemp and Detlef Schrempf - Schrempf was a 3-time All-star in 95', 97', and 98' as a 6-10 stretch four with handle and a 40% 3-pt shot - I'll take a prime Kemp, Payton and the all-star Schrempf over an old Duncan, Parker and Leonard any day.

People forget about the 1992 Blazers - they were a championship-level team that almost made 3 Finals in a row... In 1990 they made the Finals, but then got upset in 1991 by the Lakers, before returning again in 1992... They were very athletic at the wing positions (Drexler, Kersey, Robinson) and were a veteran, championship-level team with Finals experience.
[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR]

This isn't surprising considering Jordan's career wasn't super long.

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]It most certainly was. How is this even debatable? Just look at the scoring leaders from the mid 90s

[B]hakeem - d rob - shaq[/B] with mj out the league

and then compare that to the scoring leaders in the mid 00s.

[B]kobe - ai - tmac[/B] with the extinction of big men

what's the point


And why would opening up the lane every 2.9 seconds be an impediment for guys trying to score? :wtf:

[B]the same reason they don't allow guys to put hands on cats they're not
defending . . . the 2.9 doesn't eliminate being doubled without the ball
or being able to defend and area . . . . so why does that matter

the big can still leave his man come strongside and just sit on the block[/B]


Synergy Sports published a study for SI that showed that the average league wide for use of zone D was about 3% of team's possessions and players actually shot better against zone than against man D.

[B]bet my life synergy has never played a lick of ball . . . you see guys five
feet away from their man covering areas all the time . . . basically the
league has turned into a 3-man zone , , , , nobody plays straight up

well , except for kawhi[/B]

but he special


That only makes sense considering the fact that zone is used by amateur coaches to hide poor defenders.

[B]so you're telling me nba players are not being hidden on defense[/B]

[B]hahaha , , , c'mon son[/B]


If you're an NBA player or coach and you don't know how to exploit zone

[B]what happened when the bad boys put that zone on jordan dadda
. . . . . he got that ass chewed up , , , , , no?[/B]

[B]or was that single coverage he couldn't beat[/B]

[B]gotta check with you guys knowing that it's common for you
all to notoriously mistake rotating help for double teams[/B]


Pistons played just 2 years earlier (before the rule changes of '05) under Larry Brown who never employed zone. Night and day.

[B]you crazy if you think that wasn't a zone the pistons were playing
. . . that was the whole reason for the changes in the first place[/B]


Didn't know the triangle was an 'iso' offense :oldlol:

[B]wow , , are you serious right now

the triangle doesn't preclude you from isolation , , if anything it
enhances your position because more times than not you're
receiving the ball on the move already in triple-threat[/B]

[/QUOTE]


shortening the 3 point line benefitted all wing players

not just 3-point shooters or do you also believe
that mike was a lights out 3ball shooter

prior to the change

.
[u][b]Jordan Played in the Two-Point Shooting Eras - a Tougher Brand of Basketball
[/b][/u]

From the 50's all the way through the mid-90's, the three-point shot was barely used at all... With no 3-pointers, defenders did not need to extend out to the 3-point line and therefore guarded a smaller surface area and were in closer proximity to one another.. This is the definition of no spacing, and with less room for offensive players to operate, a much higher proportion of shots were contested and often taken from mid-range.. This tougher shot allocation puts perpetual downward pressure on shooting efficiency that today's players don't have to deal with.

In today's game, contested mid-range shots are avoided because they are considered the toughest and lowest efficiency shots to take.. Instead, the 3-point shooting and subsequent spacing, along with the league mandating that defenders can't occupy the paint (defensive 3 seconds) force defenses to cover more ground, which makes it harder to contest shots - the extra space creates a greater proportion of open shots and more favorable shot allocations for today's players to enjoy (open at-rim looks.. FT's from less physical play.. and 3-pointers).


Experienced fans already know all of the above - but for the new basketball fans that aren't aware of how the game's evolved, see the GIFs below - the difference is obvious - Here is a standard Lebron drive where his 3-point shooters are spacing the floor for him making the paint wide open, and all this is helped by the NBA mandating that defenders stay out of the paint (defensive 3 seconds).


[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Todays_No_Defense_Lack_of_Rim_eb5a1b1afe17e31ce272eb4e3ae0f8e9.gif[/img]



Compare that to Wilt's (#13) day.. All two-pointers and no spacing... Which one is harder to score in the paint?

[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Paint_Congestion_in_Wilts_Era__e5cc5559f5ecbd15aefec46a22dd4b99.gif[/img]


No floor-spreading + No defensive 3 secs = Packed paint/mid-range & more contested shots (2-pointers ofc).

[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Michael_Jordan_Eurostep_5cc9d1bfc6064cfecf8deaef003568c2.gif[/img]

[QUOTE=3ball]Also, the shortened 3-point line made the game more compacted - the defense didn't have to guard 24 feet out, now only 21 feet... that makes a big difference in the overall level of congestion and available spacing - shots are going to be more contested when there is less spacing and/or the defense isn't extended out as far.

From the 50's all the way through the mid-90's, the three-point shot was barely used at all.. These were two-point shooting eras and there was no defensive 3 seconds.. A game of two-pointers is a tougher brand of basketball because there is maximum congestion and no spacing, which results in a very high proportion of attempted shots being contested mid-range shots.

However, in today's game, contested mid-range shots are avoided because they are considered the toughest and lowest efficiency shots to take.. Instead, the 3-point shooting, spacing and defensive 3 seconds have made it is harder for the defense to contest shots, creating more high efficiency situations for today's players to enjoy (open at-rim looks, FT's from less physical play, and 3-pointers).


Experienced fans already know all of the above - but for the new basketball fans that aren't aware of how the game's evolved, see the GIFs below - the difference is obvious - Here is a standard Lebron drive where his 3-point shooters are spacing the floor for him making the paint wide open, and all this is helped by the NBA mandating that defenders stay out of the paint (defensive 3 seconds).

[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Todays_No_Defense_Lack_of_Rim_eb5a1b1afe17e31ce272eb4e3ae0f8e9.gif[/IMG]



Compare that to Wilt's day.. Which one is harder to score in the paint?

[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Paint_Congestion_in_Wilts_Era__e5cc5559f5ecbd15aefec46a22dd4b99.gif[/IMG]


Or MJ'sday.... No floor-spreading + No defensive 3 seconds = Packed paint/mid-range area and more contested shots.

[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Michael_Jordan_Eurostep_5cc9d1bfc6064cfecf8deaef003568c2.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]

In before "weak defensive era" by Dubeta / Lebronxrings. :facepalm

[QUOTE]hakeem - d rob - shaq with mj out the league

kobe - ai - tmac with the extinction of big men

[B]what's the point[/B][/QUOTE]

You just made it :lol - the league wasn't tailored to perimeter scoring in the 90s, as evidenced by what happened in Jordan's absence. Then when the rule changes happened in the 00s, all of a sudden perimeter who had been drafted in the mid 90s, who were active when old Jordan was still winning scoring titles all of a sudden start scoring in bunches.

But I'm sure that was just a coincidence.

[QUOTE]the same reason they don't allow guys to put hands on cats they're not
defending . . . the 2.9 doesn't eliminate being doubled without the ball
or being able to defend and area . . . . so why does that matter

the big can still leave his man come strongside and just sit on the block[/QUOTE]

Teams/players were doing all that long before the 3 sec. rule was instated. All that rule does is open up the lane for easy drives like you saw in that DWade ECF vid I posted.


[QUOTE][B]bet my life synergy has never played a lick of ball[/B] . . . you see guys five
feet away from their man covering areas all the time . . . basically the
league has turned into a 3-man zone , , , , nobody plays straight up

well , except for kawhi[/QUOTE]

:rolleyes:

Do you even know what Synergy is? Clearly you don't :roll:

[QUOTE]what happened when the bad boys put that zone on jordan dadda
. . . . . he got that ass chewed up , , , , , no?

or was that single coverage he couldn't beat

gotta check with you guys knowing that[B] it's common for you
all to notoriously mistake rotating help for double teams[/B] [/QUOTE]

The irony :oldlol:

If I had a nickel for every time an idiot here mistook man defense with help for 'zone'. And the Pistons had their own set of defensive schemes for Jordan, don't know if you've heard of it.

[QUOTE]you crazy if you think that wasn't a zone the pistons were playing
. . . that was the whole reason for the changes in the first place[/QUOTE]

You see?! Exactly what I was just talking about. You owe me a nickel :oldlol:

The Larry Brown Pistons didn't play a single possession of zone and they clowned Kobe and the Lakers in the finals. Flip Saunders was one of the few coaches in the league known for actually using zone schemes:

[INDENT][B]They've been so open that Saunders waited only one day before running the proud Pistons through some zone concepts[/B]. He sees too much length, quickness and athleticism on Detroit's front line to resist the idea, even though he knows that [B][COLOR="Red"]the Pistons of Brown vintage were adamant that real men don't zone.[/COLOR][/B]

"Zone might be a four-letter word around here," Saunders said, "but they've been pretty receptive to it. I think it's one of those things that, if we play it and we're successful with it, they'll wrap their arms around it a little bit more."

[url]http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/trainingcamp05/columns/story?id=2190851[/url][/INDENT]

You dudes don't even know what the hell you're watching :oldlol:


[QUOTE]wow , , are you serious right now

the triangle doesn't preclude you from isolation , , if anything it
enhances your position because more times than not you're
receiving the ball on the move already in triple-threat[/QUOTE]

[B][U]Bulls Championship Years APG[/U][/B]

[B]'91: 27 APG ([COLOR="Red"]95.6 Pace[/COLOR])
'92: 27.8 APG ([COLOR="Red"]94.4 Pace[/COLOR])
'93: 26 APG ([COLOR="Red"]92.5 Pace[/COLOR])
'96: 24.8 APG ([COLOR="Red"]91.1 Pace[/COLOR])
'97: 26.1 APG ([COLOR="Red"]90 Pace[/COLOR])
'98: 23.8 APG ([COLOR="Red"]89 Pace[/COLOR])[/B]

For reference, everyone was salivating over the Spurs passing/ball movement this year. They averaged [B]25.2 APG[/B] (led the league) playing at a [B][COLOR="Red"]Pace of 95[/COLOR][/B].

Bulls usually averaged more assists per game, playing in a slower pace... but they were running isolation for Jordan every time. Because that's what the triangle offense means- run isolation plays :oldlol:


[QUOTE=aau]shortening the 3 point line benefitted all wing players[/QUOTE]

Then why were all the top scorers in the league not counting Jordan all Cs + PFs? :wtf:

Guys like Kobe, Iverson, Ray, and even VC and Pierce by '98 were all doing their thing in the league. Yet they didn't become the top scorers until AFTER the rule changes. Hell Bean, Iverson, Ray, Nash- all guys who were drafted in 1996 didn't have their career best PPG until AFTER the summer of '05 rule changes. When has that ever happened in NBA History where several perimeter players from the same draft class ALL had their career best scoring season [I]10 years[/I] after they were drafted, some of them in their 30s? :biggums:

Say When.